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http://www.geocities.com/brattsunami/strats/zvt/content1-base.html
http://www.geocities.com/brattsunami/strats/zvp/content1-base.html
Those are Tsunami's old Zerg guides. I'm just curious if (other than that one JulyZerg game on Longinus) anyone has some goofy (and more or less recent) one base Zerg replays they could share. I really like them because it forces the Zerg to think for a change and play smart, rather than this macro whore style most people can't seem to get away from. I won't say one-base Zerg is entirely viable, especially at higher levels, but they're certainly fun to see when they do happen.
Feel free to discuss anything you like about one-base Zerg BOs as well  IMO one-base Zergs have the most options as far as misinformation and doing basically whatever the shit floats their boat
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Can you post JulyZerg's 1 base replay?
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you can think for a change and play smart without having to play a jerk-off one base strategy. if you want to 1 hatch muta, all the power to you
play a 2 hatch strategy if you want to have to micro and use your units well, but 1 base strategies are just ridiculously bad
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He's not saying 1 hatch builds yubee, he's talking about 1 base.
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On August 25 2007 05:19 caveman:caveman wrote:
He's not saying 1 hatch builds yubee, he's talking about 1 base. 1 hatch or 1 base, it doesn't matter, they are gimmicky builds that rarely work against anyone. besides, if you're gonna 12 hatch in main, why don't you just hatch at your expo so that you have better options if you don't score a 5 minute win
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I can point you in the direction of some games. Maybe you can find them on Youtbue (VOD's).
Chojja vs Iris on Peaks of Baekdu from 2006 1st ShinHan Bank OnGameNet StarLeague
Yellow[name] vs IloveOov on 815-3 from 2006 1st ShinHan Bank OnGameNet StarLeague
Sir@Soni vs NaDa on Peaks of Baekdu
http://www.teamliquid.net/replay/download.php?replay=825
All these are examples of ultra low eco Zerg from the highest level of gameplay. It's *still* viable, but not nearly as much as it was years ago. Needless to say though, original Peaks is a really good map for this style. Lurkers on the cliff can disrupt Terran mining too easily, meaning that he can't really abuse the cliffs as much as he'd like early game.
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On August 25 2007 05:26 yubee wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2007 05:19 caveman:caveman wrote:
He's not saying 1 hatch builds yubee, he's talking about 1 base. 1 hatch or 1 base, it doesn't matter, they are gimmicky builds that rarely work against anyone. besides, if you're gonna 12 hatch in main, why don't you just hatch at your expo so that you have better options if you don't score a 5 minute win
Not true. The viability of 1 base Zerg all depends on the map. On original Peaks, it was incredibly viable. It's what you know is *OBVIOUSLY* coming and yet it is still very difficult to block. In fact, it's the ONLY way you can really play that map. Yet, it's map history...
July > Iris
Savior > Sync
Luxury < Xellos
Child < Cuteboy
Luxury > NaDa
Chojja < Casy
Hazin[sam] > UpMagic
Shinhwa < Midas
Stay < Kuni
Yellow > Casy
Zergman < Casy
Chojja > Iris
Yarnc < Sea
Shinhwa > Boxer
Calm < Sea
July < Casy
Stay < Casy
Chojja < NaDa
July > Sync
Jju < Boxer
That's a whole lot of Zerg killers on the Terran side. I don't think I have to point out how skilled Casy, NaDa, Boxer, Sea, Iris, Xellos and SynC are in TvZ. Of them, Iris and SynC are the weakest against Zerg. If that's not scary, I don't know what is. Only 3 matches from the Terran side featured a gamer not very noteable (Cuteboy, Kuni and UpMagic), yet even then, Cuteboy is decent against Zerg (just shitty overall) and UpMagic is currently #14 ranked on KeSPA.
From the Zerg side, Zergman is somewhat weak ZvT (IMO he's under rated in that match-up as he's faced an impressive arsenal of Terrans, thus his shitty ZvT record), Shinhwa has panned out into a non-entity, Stay has panned out into a non-entity, Hazin is downright terrible, Child's ZvT is incredibly unimpressive, and Calm seems unable to win outside of proleague, and even there his record is not that inspiring (though recently he's been a surprisingly reliable ace).
All said and done, that list of Terrans is definitely more mind-blowing than that list of Zergs, and yet the Terrans only had a 12-8 record against Zerg on that map.
Seeing as how Zerg CAN SURVIVE on a map where 1 base is by far the most viable option, I think it goes without saying that 1 base is a viable strategy as more than just a gimmick to be used a couple times and forgotten.
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On August 25 2007 05:50 Mortality wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2007 05:26 yubee wrote:On August 25 2007 05:19 caveman:caveman wrote:
He's not saying 1 hatch builds yubee, he's talking about 1 base. 1 hatch or 1 base, it doesn't matter, they are gimmicky builds that rarely work against anyone. besides, if you're gonna 12 hatch in main, why don't you just hatch at your expo so that you have better options if you don't score a 5 minute win Not true. The viability of 1 base Zerg all depends on the map. On original Peaks, it was incredibly viable. It's what you know is *OBVIOUSLY* coming and yet it is still very difficult to block. In fact, it's the ONLY way you can really play that map. Yet, it's map history... July > Iris Savior > Sync Luxury < Xellos Child < Cuteboy Luxury > NaDa Chojja < Casy Hazin[sam] > UpMagic Shinhwa < Midas Stay < Kuni Yellow > Casy Zergman < Casy Chojja > Iris Yarnc < Sea Shinhwa > Boxer Calm < Sea July < Casy Stay < Casy Chojja < NaDa July > Sync Jju < Boxer That's a whole lot of Zerg killers on the Terran side. I don't think I have to point out how skilled Casy, NaDa, Boxer, Sea, Iris, Xellos and SynC are in TvZ. Of them, Iris and SynC are the weakest against Zerg. If that's not scary, I don't know what is. Only 3 matches from the Terran side featured a gamer not very noteable (Cuteboy, Kuni and UpMagic), yet even then, Cuteboy is decent against Zerg (just shitty overall) and UpMagic is currently #14 ranked on KeSPA. From the Zerg side, Zergman is somewhat weak ZvT (IMO he's under rated in that match-up as he's faced an impressive arsenal of Terrans, thus his shitty ZvT record), Shinhwa has panned out into a non-entity, Stay has panned out into a non-entity, Hazin is downright terrible, Child's ZvT is incredibly unimpressive, and Calm seems unable to win outside of proleague, and even there his record is not that inspiring (though recently he's been a surprisingly reliable ace). All said and done, that list of Terrans is definitely more mind-blowing than that list of Zergs, and yet the Terrans only had a 12-8 record against Zerg on that map. Seeing as how Zerg CAN SURVIVE on a map where 1 base is by far the most viable option, I think it goes without saying that 1 base is a viable strategy as more than just a gimmick to be used a couple times and forgotten. that's the dumbest reason for 1 base still being viable. a map sucks so it's viable? why the fuck do you think they updated the map?
is 1 base hive a viable strategy because it works on a map that has 10 gasses in the main?
1 base builds suck because your opponent can just play safe and overpower you. it's the same reason 2 hatch builds aren't used very much anymore, because they don't allow the same amount of flexibility that a 3 hatch does. if a terran covers his ass and minimizes all harass options, and you don't have amazing unit control, larva management, and macro timing, you will be pretty far behind. with 1 base, it's the same idea, but even LESS flexible than 2 hatch.
also, don't cite pro matches as reasons why 1 base builds can work, pro zergs have good enough micro and management to create their own windows to harass. the next time i see anyone take down a terran with 1 hatch muta on battle.net, i will post the replay, but until then, it's not viable.
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United States37500 Posts
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United States20661 Posts
YellOw vs Casy on that map wasn't one-base XD
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yubee, one base zerg is a purely reactional strategy. Whether you go lurks, muta, drop, speed/burrow etc. is up to what you think your opponent is either.
1 hatch or 1 base, it doesn't matter, they are gimmicky builds that rarely work against anyone. besides, if you're gonna 12 hatch in main, why don't you just hatch at your expo so that you have better options if you don't score a 5 minute win
It's actually 11 hatch, 10 pool, 11 or 12 gas. Which means you have many lings early on if you want, and because the Terran will have a hard time guessing what you're doing you can even get fun things like Queens as the game progresses.
I think the main downfall of one base strats is that Terrans have simply learned to micro better. But at low levels, it's worked fine for me, not to mention being a lot more fun.
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On August 25 2007 07:26 PsycHOTemplar wrote:yubee, one base zerg is a purely reactional strategy. Whether you go lurks, muta, drop, speed/burrow etc. is up to what you think your opponent is either. Show nested quote +1 hatch or 1 base, it doesn't matter, they are gimmicky builds that rarely work against anyone. besides, if you're gonna 12 hatch in main, why don't you just hatch at your expo so that you have better options if you don't score a 5 minute win It's actually 11 hatch, 10 pool, 11 or 12 gas. Which means you have many lings early on if you want, and because the Terran will have a hard time guessing what you're doing you can even get fun things like Queens as the game progresses. I think the main downfall of one base strats is that Terrans have simply learned to micro better. But at low levels, it's worked fine for me, not to mention being a lot more fun. no, terran won't have a hard time guessing because they can scout you. no, you can't get one base queens and win that's the dumbest shit i've ever heard of
and no, one base zerg isn't reactional wtf, you're putting your hatch down before you even scout him
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You don't even need micro when facing a one-base zerg. All you need to do is just defend properly, mass and attack.
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no, terran won't have a hard time guessing because they can scout you. no, you can't get one base queens and win that's the dumbest shit i've ever heard of
Yes, if you're turbo newbie you won't be able to kill the scout with the speedlings a one base strat affords you. I didn't say fast tech to queens, I mean later in the game you feel like you have a lot more opportunities with them because they game is so small scale.
Anyway, I played a one base Zerg strat just now, so I'll upload the replay. Neither myself nor the guy I was playing are very good, but for the sake of showing low level effectiveness of it (and the epicness of the games it can produce). And I just realised how nice it would have been to have Queens for Broodling. They are SO cost effective in low econ games. Too bad I forgot 
[url blocked]
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Holy crap these replays are awesome :O
So much different than the "macro and kill" methods of modern Zergs
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iG.Bruce vs MYM.4Leaf @ tau cross was pretty good, toss blocks the zerg's choke with a pylon and cannons while teching to corsair/reaver, zerg wins by massing hydras off 1 base and dropping in toss main.
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On August 25 2007 09:21 PsycHOTemplar wrote:Show nested quote +no, terran won't have a hard time guessing because they can scout you. no, you can't get one base queens and win that's the dumbest shit i've ever heard of Yes, if you're turbo newbie you won't be able to kill the scout with the speedlings a one base strat affords you. I didn't say fast tech to queens, I mean later in the game you feel like you have a lot more opportunities with them because they game is so small scale. Anyway, I played a one base Zerg strat just now, so I'll upload the replay. Neither myself nor the guy I was playing are very good, but for the sake of showing low level effectiveness of it (and the epicness of the games it can produce). And I just realised how nice it would have been to have Queens for Broodling. They are SO cost effective in low econ games. Too bad I forgot [url blocked] hey wow i'm totally converted, that was truly inspiring play on both sides! a one base lurker build? no, what's this, a one base slow lurker drop build? who could've guessed!
what i found really great was how protoss's response to a 1 base build was the old "try to leave as many openings as possible" strategy. 1 cannon at the front? sure! no cannons in main? sounds good to me! send out a probe to scout him? hell no!
protoss had 2 bases to your one. if he wasn't the least talented protoss i've ever seen, he would've steamrolled you easily.
ps, it was cute how even with robo and observatory, he refused to pump any observers to clear the two lurkers that destroyed his whole main. now that's what i call "playing smart and using units effectively"
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First of all, I said it we were low level gamers, so there's no need to be an asshole. Second, he's not the worst Toss ever =/ He kept his money low for the most part, and when he knew his expo was lost, he didn't hesitate to attack my base which would likely be empty because of my pre occupied army. It takes more than a total noob to recognise that opportunity.
I think his downfall is that he tried to copy what he'd seen pro gamer VODs, only obviously not nearly as well as them. Unfortunately for him, you almost never see one base Zerg in VODs, so he just pretended it didn't matter and went ahead with plans.
If he had prepared for everything, had cannons in his main, obviously I wouldn't have tried the Lurk drop. I would have assumed that he'd spent so much money on defence he didn't have much of a standing army, so I'd double expo and try to catch up in economy that way. The way it was though, I saw an opportunity to do damage, so I took it. If he had had one or two cannons in his main, I might still have gone for it. Those 8 lings I dropped with the lurks aren't totally useless you know.
Now look. All I'm saying is that it's fun for low level gamers like myself. It's not the best way to go, but it isn't complete suicide at my level either.
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On August 25 2007 13:49 PsycHOTemplar wrote:
First of all, I said it we were low level gamers, so there's no need to be an asshole. Second, he's not the worst Toss ever =/ He kept his money low for the most part, and when he knew his expo was lost, he didn't hesitate to attack my base which would likely be empty because of my pre occupied army. It takes more than a total noob to recognise that opportunity.
I think his downfall is that he tried to copy what he'd seen pro gamer VODs, only obviously not nearly as well as them. Unfortunately for him, you almost never see one base Zerg in VODs, so he just pretended it didn't matter and went ahead with plans.
If he had prepared for everything, had cannons in his main, obviously I wouldn't have tried the Lurk drop. I would have assumed that he'd spent so much money on defence he didn't have much of a standing army, so I'd double expo and try to catch up in economy that way. The way it was though, I saw an opportunity to do damage, so I took it. If he had had one or two cannons in his main, I might still have gone for it. Those 8 lings I dropped with the lurks aren't totally useless you know.
Now look. All I'm saying is that it's fun for low level gamers like myself. It's not the best way to go, but it isn't complete suicide at my level either. you think you have the opportunity to "catch up in macro" when his expansion is online before yours have even started? no dude, no, your strategy sucks. when a protoss sees high ling counts, he should add more cannons. the protoss just sucked horribly at reading the signs, don't think that your strategy is some mysterious never-before-seen ace in the hole
edit: ok ok go ahead with your sweet strats, i will keep out :p
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