• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 05:01
CEST 11:01
KST 18:01
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall6HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0TL Team Map Contest #5: Presented by Monster Energy6
Community News
Flash Announces Hiatus From ASL41Weekly Cups (June 23-29): Reynor in world title form?12FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event16Esports World Cup 2025 - Final Player Roster16Weekly Cups (June 16-22): Clem strikes back1
StarCraft 2
General
Statistics for vetoed/disliked maps Esports World Cup 2025 - Final Player Roster The SCII GOAT: A statistical Evaluation How does the number of casters affect your enjoyment of esports? Weekly Cups (June 23-29): Reynor in world title form?
Tourneys
RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series [GSL 2025] Code S: Season 2 - Semi Finals & Finals $5,100+ SEL Season 2 Championship (SC: Evo) FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event HomeStory Cup 27 (June 27-29)
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 480 Moths to the Flame Mutation # 479 Worn Out Welcome Mutation # 478 Instant Karma Mutation # 477 Slow and Steady
Brood War
General
Help: rep cant save Player “Jedi” cheat on CSL Flash Announces Hiatus From ASL [ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL20] GosuLeague RO16 - Tue & Wed 20:00+CET The Casual Games of the Week Thread [BSL20] ProLeague LB Final - Saturday 20:00 CET
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile What do you want from future RTS games? Beyond All Reason
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Trading/Investing Thread The Games Industry And ATVI
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread NBA General Discussion Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NHL Playoffs 2024
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
Blog #2
tankgirl
Game Sound vs. Music: The Im…
TrAiDoS
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Heero Yuy & the Tax…
KrillinFromwales
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 609 users

[H] Why did I lose this game?

Forum Index > Brood War Strategy
Post a Reply
fefil
Profile Joined July 2019
92 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-07-26 23:16:24
July 26 2019 23:15 GMT
#1
replay: http://bwreplays.com/lu9pa

1700 protoss. here's what I can point out:

1. Coulda gone forge nexus cannon since my probe didnt scout many lings
2. core a few seconds late, had the money for it.
3. IDLE CORSAIRS, was too scared of scourge to move out. shouldn't have made as many as I did if i'm just gonna use them to scout then park them in my nat.
4. late templar archives, thankfully didnt matter
5. 10:45, my templar gets sniped and it had a storm
6. 11:58, my obs gets sniped and a misrally or something causes me to lose a handful of units for no reason
7. obs gets sniped again, if my corsairs werent afk at the bottom left they coulda prevented this
8. 14:40 my shuttle is afk at the top of the map for too long, think my logic was i was waiting for shuttle speed. however i am doing good harass with a DT at the bottom base. hes still effectively on 3 bases, i should be in the lead.
9. 15:45, good storm drop but too little too late
10. first of all, at 17:50, my shuttle flies right into his hydras when i knew for a fact he had his army there. stupid of me. second, this engagement sucks. i should have sent units through my third and flanked him. attacking over a bridge sucks.
11. holy shit I have so much money. 6k mins 2k gas
12. afk shuttle again at the bottom right....
13. 23:20, this engage was shit. shoulda just parked it and secured my fourth.

anything after this point doesnt matter.

so heres my summary:

- shit macro
- got contained and lost map control because my corsairs were afk and shuttles didnt do much
- sloppy engagements

what do you guys think? how am I meant to secure a fourth in this matchup? i understand that i am meant to put a robo at each expo, make some reavers, leave a couple HTs and with cannons that can hold off hundreds of zerg units. but what about when the nexus is building? i wont have cannons + simcity up instantly, i wont have the reavers there unless i bring them with a shuttle. you can see i tried making a robo at my fourth but he cancelled it before i could.

this is how a lot of my PvZs go lately. just looking for general advice. this style of play (cracklings, flanks, counter attacks, multiprong attacks) is hard for me to beat. my opponents apm was lower than mine so in theory i should be able to pull it off but I find it so hard to split my army perfectly and control the map.

i was thinking maybe i should just make 3 corsairs and not 5-6 like I did. it seems my multitasking isnt developed enough to take advantage of 6. i can improve still, i have only been playing a month. help me out pls
Bonyth
Profile Joined August 2010
Poland554 Posts
July 27 2019 10:39 GMT
#2
The main reason for your loss is your poor decision making. U have over 5k bank and almost 200/200 and u still sit with your army in your natural. I don't really care if your corsairs were idle, if u were late with some buildings half a minute or anything like that. U're supposed to use your army. Pressure the zerg, don't let him take expansions for free, stuff like that.

I wanted to go over some minor things, but compared to just sitting in the base, they are nothing. Also, I recommend for lower ranked protosses 2 forge later on.
fefil
Profile Joined July 2019
92 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-07-27 15:41:58
July 27 2019 15:40 GMT
#3
But I was contained by lurkers mate. Also the army has to be near my expos incase he attacks one of them

And i have seen bisu with a maxed out army and he cant break a zerg who has 110 supply. Sim city + lurkers + sunkens makes it hard to attack any expo especially kf they have a nydus
Bonyth
Profile Joined August 2010
Poland554 Posts
July 27 2019 16:56 GMT
#4
Trust me, you don't want to wait for defilers to help with the contain. You've waited far too long. So long, other minor aspects of your play become irrelevant.
fefil
Profile Joined July 2019
92 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-07-27 20:14:24
July 27 2019 20:11 GMT
#5
And what about counter attacks? What about simcity and lurkers, maybe nydus, making it nearly impossible to attack into?
Bonyth
Profile Joined August 2010
Poland554 Posts
July 27 2019 20:59 GMT
#6
i'm S rank protoss by the way, if u are suspicious of my tips.
As for counter attacks, leave 2 zealots on the ramp (3 o clock) and a high templar, this is more than enough.
As for how u should break the contain: group like 9 goons, 1 obs, 2 ht's together and push out little by little. This way u're not losing zealots needlessly vs lurkers and if a bunch of hydras or zergling attack your goons, just storm them.
Note that i'm talking about lurker contain on YOUR bridge (that's what i saw on the replay, maybe corrupted?). It's a different situation when zerg camps behind sunkens/spores/lurkers.
fefil
Profile Joined July 2019
92 Posts
July 27 2019 21:24 GMT
#7
Okay thank you I will definitely be focusing on being more active with my army. what were some of the other things that you were going to mention?

and i meant both. how do I break the sunken/spore/lurker/evo defense? part of the reason i dont move out much in pvz is because i dont see an efficient way to break that
Bonyth
Profile Joined August 2010
Poland554 Posts
July 27 2019 23:08 GMT
#8
I'm not a fan of theorycrafting, as in there is no 0 or 1 solutions of how u're supposed to break zerg. Each situation is unique and it requires your decision. Sometimes u can break the zerg, sometimes u can kill just the outsider hatcheries and sometimes u can't do anything about the camp, so u get your expansions and upgrades up while harassing the zerg with a shuttle while denying zerg's further expansions.
As i mentioned earlier, double forge will help u fight with zerg, especialy zerglings and cracklings.
As for other minor things, consistency of probe production would be the 1st. Also u have a habit of making probes even when your mineral line is depleted. Learn to make probes consistently until u reach a certain number. 40-60 would be good depending on how well u can macro and how many expansions u have. After that, just stop the production. Another minor probe thing: probe saturation in bases. On FS probe saturation should be: 9:7:8 (because thats how many mineral fields are in main/nat/2nd exp). Obviously the ratio doesnt have to be ideal, but avoid situation when 1 base has 20 probes in minerals, while the other has 10 or 12.
It's hard to judge your gameplay of a single replay but focus on doing something with your army as this is the thing that's going to boost your MMR significantly if improved. All the others remaining little errors will await you in the future (and it's not just about probes).
Anc13nt
Profile Blog Joined October 2017
1557 Posts
July 28 2019 01:32 GMT
#9
Another problem was you had a ton of money so you should have taken a 4th and 5th soon after you broke the contain. In this case, you could've even taken the 4th during the contain because he had no vision near your third so you could've sneakily built a 4th. That said, a stronger zerg player would probably try to deny attempts at a 4th so that is why I said you should take it after you broke contain (because you have regained map control and can defend attempts to deny 4th). I also feel like you had problems gathering all your units in the midgame. Often you were out-supplying zerg but your army looked really small because you had a lot of idle units.
SuGo
Profile Joined March 2013
United States681 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-07-28 16:48:47
July 28 2019 16:48 GMT
#10
On July 28 2019 05:59 Bonyth wrote:
i'm S rank protoss by the way, if u are suspicious of my tips.


XenOsky
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Chile2260 Posts
July 29 2019 03:40 GMT
#11
On July 28 2019 05:59 Bonyth wrote:
i'm S rank protoss by the way, if u are suspicious of my tips.
.


that is quite humble calling yourself just an "S rank protoss" by the way.
StarCraft & Audax Italiano.
fefil
Profile Joined July 2019
92 Posts
July 29 2019 05:08 GMT
#12
i am honored to receive his advice
y2kid
Profile Joined May 2018
92 Posts
August 02 2019 16:53 GMT
#13
LOL @ people doubting the GOAT at 2019 xD I mean if twitch and a bunch of tourneys did not exist, eeek sure but still no, but that's lol just L O L
ninazerg
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States7291 Posts
August 05 2019 01:35 GMT
#14
On July 28 2019 05:59 Bonyth wrote:
i'm S rank protoss by the way, if u are suspicious of my tips.


Well, it's not untrue.
"If two pregnant women get into a fist fight, it's like a mecha-battle between two unborn babies." - Fyodor Dostoevsky
JoinTheRain
Profile Blog Joined September 2018
Bulgaria408 Posts
August 07 2019 19:14 GMT
#15
Gobble that Bonyth advice like cupcakes. It will not get better for you than this - first hand tips from the best P outside of Korea.
The subject-matter of the art of living is each person's own life.
ffswowsucks
Profile Blog Joined August 2005
Greece2294 Posts
August 07 2019 21:04 GMT
#16
On July 27 2019 08:15 fefil wrote:
replay: http://bwreplays.com/lu9pa

1700 protoss. here's what I can point out:

1. Coulda gone forge nexus cannon since my probe didnt scout many lings
2. core a few seconds late, had the money for it.
3. IDLE CORSAIRS, was too scared of scourge to move out. shouldn't have made as many as I did if i'm just gonna use them to scout then park them in my nat.
4. late templar archives, thankfully didnt matter
5. 10:45, my templar gets sniped and it had a storm
6. 11:58, my obs gets sniped and a misrally or something causes me to lose a handful of units for no reason
7. obs gets sniped again, if my corsairs werent afk at the bottom left they coulda prevented this
8. 14:40 my shuttle is afk at the top of the map for too long, think my logic was i was waiting for shuttle speed. however i am doing good harass with a DT at the bottom base. hes still effectively on 3 bases, i should be in the lead.
9. 15:45, good storm drop but too little too late
10. first of all, at 17:50, my shuttle flies right into his hydras when i knew for a fact he had his army there. stupid of me. second, this engagement sucks. i should have sent units through my third and flanked him. attacking over a bridge sucks.
11. holy shit I have so much money. 6k mins 2k gas
12. afk shuttle again at the bottom right....
13. 23:20, this engage was shit. shoulda just parked it and secured my fourth.

anything after this point doesnt matter.

so heres my summary:

- shit macro
- got contained and lost map control because my corsairs were afk and shuttles didnt do much
- sloppy engagements

what do you guys think? how am I meant to secure a fourth in this matchup? i understand that i am meant to put a robo at each expo, make some reavers, leave a couple HTs and with cannons that can hold off hundreds of zerg units. but what about when the nexus is building? i wont have cannons + simcity up instantly, i wont have the reavers there unless i bring them with a shuttle. you can see i tried making a robo at my fourth but he cancelled it before i could.

this is how a lot of my PvZs go lately. just looking for general advice. this style of play (cracklings, flanks, counter attacks, multiprong attacks) is hard for me to beat. my opponents apm was lower than mine so in theory i should be able to pull it off but I find it so hard to split my army perfectly and control the map.

i was thinking maybe i should just make 3 corsairs and not 5-6 like I did. it seems my multitasking isnt developed enough to take advantage of 6. i can improve still, i have only been playing a month. help me out pls



Agreed totally with Bonyth but reason you lost was you depleted all your minerals/gas and you didnt in the right time go out of your base and expand ever more. you should have had the whole down right part of the map. Plus at one point i noticed around the 15th min mark you had like 140-150 population and the zerg only 90 or something. You could have easily ended the game there. you went out with many HTs dragoons zealots and the guy only had some lings/hydras/lurkers outside your base and you decided to go back to your natural and just sit there.
Terran in particular is a notoriously strong race for a no brain skillhand bot style.
Qikz
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United Kingdom12022 Posts
August 08 2019 13:45 GMT
#17
On August 05 2019 10:35 ninazerg wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 28 2019 05:59 Bonyth wrote:
i'm S rank protoss by the way, if u are suspicious of my tips.


Well, it's not untrue.


/r/technicallythetruth
FanTaSy's #1 Fan | STPL Caster/Organiser | SKT BEST KT | https://twitch.tv/stpl
Psyonic_Reaver
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States4336 Posts
August 08 2019 16:08 GMT
#18
Honestly. Bonyth encountered some lurker contain play on his Twitch stream recently. May be beneficial to go through some of his past broadcasts.
So wait? I'm bad? =(
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 59m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Nina 124
ProTech34
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea 3200
ToSsGirL 634
BeSt 605
actioN 332
GoRush 249
Killer 192
Nal_rA 101
JulyZerg 52
Shinee 51
EffOrt 45
[ Show more ]
Mong 42
Sacsri 38
Sharp 26
Noble 25
sSak 21
Bale 10
Dota 2
BananaSlamJamma431
XcaliburYe277
League of Legends
JimRising 466
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K1056
shoxiejesuss890
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King216
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor135
Other Games
shahzam1251
ceh9710
Happy358
DeMusliM108
crisheroes92
rGuardiaN63
SortOf49
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick848
StarCraft: Brood War
Kim Chul Min (afreeca) 39
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH363
• LUISG 25
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota293
League of Legends
• Stunt683
• HappyZerGling82
Upcoming Events
The PondCast
59m
RSL Revival
59m
ByuN vs Classic
Clem vs Cham
WardiTV European League
6h 59m
ByuN vs NightPhoenix
HeRoMaRinE vs HiGhDrA
Krystianer vs sebesdes
MaxPax vs Babymarine
SKillous vs Mixu
ShoWTimE vs MaNa
Replay Cast
14h 59m
RSL Revival
1d
herO vs SHIN
Reynor vs Cure
WardiTV European League
1d 6h
Scarlett vs Percival
Jumy vs ArT
YoungYakov vs Shameless
uThermal vs Fjant
Nicoract vs goblin
Harstem vs Gerald
FEL
1d 6h
Korean StarCraft League
1d 17h
CranKy Ducklings
2 days
RSL Revival
2 days
[ Show More ]
FEL
2 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
RSL Revival
3 days
FEL
3 days
BSL: ProLeague
3 days
Dewalt vs Bonyth
Replay Cast
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
The PondCast
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-06-28
HSC XXVII
Heroes 10 EU

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
BSL Season 20
Acropolis #3
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
Copa Latinoamericana 4
Championship of Russia 2025
RSL Revival: Season 1
Murky Cup #2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025
YaLLa Compass Qatar 2025

Upcoming

CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
K-Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
SEL Season 2 Championship
FEL Cracov 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.