[H] Why did I lose this game?

fefil

92 Posts

July 26 2019 23:15 GMT

replay: http://bwreplays.com/lu9pa

1700 protoss. here's what I can point out:

1. Coulda gone forge nexus cannon since my probe didnt scout many lings
2. core a few seconds late, had the money for it.
3. IDLE CORSAIRS, was too scared of scourge to move out. shouldn't have made as many as I did if i'm just gonna use them to scout then park them in my nat.
4. late templar archives, thankfully didnt matter
5. 10:45, my templar gets sniped and it had a storm
6. 11:58, my obs gets sniped and a misrally or something causes me to lose a handful of units for no reason
7. obs gets sniped again, if my corsairs werent afk at the bottom left they coulda prevented this
8. 14:40 my shuttle is afk at the top of the map for too long, think my logic was i was waiting for shuttle speed. however i am doing good harass with a DT at the bottom base. hes still effectively on 3 bases, i should be in the lead.
9. 15:45, good storm drop but too little too late
10. first of all, at 17:50, my shuttle flies right into his hydras when i knew for a fact he had his army there. stupid of me. second, this engagement sucks. i should have sent units through my third and flanked him. attacking over a bridge sucks.
11. holy shit I have so much money. 6k mins 2k gas
12. afk shuttle again at the bottom right....
13. 23:20, this engage was shit. shoulda just parked it and secured my fourth.

anything after this point doesnt matter.

so heres my summary:

- shit macro
- got contained and lost map control because my corsairs were afk and shuttles didnt do much
- sloppy engagements

what do you guys think? how am I meant to secure a fourth in this matchup? i understand that i am meant to put a robo at each expo, make some reavers, leave a couple HTs and with cannons that can hold off hundreds of zerg units. but what about when the nexus is building? i wont have cannons + simcity up instantly, i wont have the reavers there unless i bring them with a shuttle. you can see i tried making a robo at my fourth but he cancelled it before i could.

this is how a lot of my PvZs go lately. just looking for general advice. this style of play (cracklings, flanks, counter attacks, multiprong attacks) is hard for me to beat. my opponents apm was lower than mine so in theory i should be able to pull it off but I find it so hard to split my army perfectly and control the map.

i was thinking maybe i should just make 3 corsairs and not 5-6 like I did. it seems my multitasking isnt developed enough to take advantage of 6. i can improve still, i have only been playing a month. help me out pls

Bonyth

Poland612 Posts

July 27 2019 10:39 GMT

The main reason for your loss is your poor decision making. U have over 5k bank and almost 200/200 and u still sit with your army in your natural. I don't really care if your corsairs were idle, if u were late with some buildings half a minute or anything like that. U're supposed to use your army. Pressure the zerg, don't let him take expansions for free, stuff like that.

I wanted to go over some minor things, but compared to just sitting in the base, they are nothing. Also, I recommend for lower ranked protosses 2 forge later on.

fefil

92 Posts

July 27 2019 15:40 GMT

But I was contained by lurkers mate. Also the army has to be near my expos incase he attacks one of them

And i have seen bisu with a maxed out army and he cant break a zerg who has 110 supply. Sim city + lurkers + sunkens makes it hard to attack any expo especially kf they have a nydus

Bonyth

Poland612 Posts

July 27 2019 16:56 GMT

Trust me, you don't want to wait for defilers to help with the contain. You've waited far too long. So long, other minor aspects of your play become irrelevant.

fefil

92 Posts

July 27 2019 20:11 GMT

And what about counter attacks? What about simcity and lurkers, maybe nydus, making it nearly impossible to attack into?

Bonyth

Poland612 Posts

July 27 2019 20:59 GMT

i'm S rank protoss by the way, if u are suspicious of my tips.
As for counter attacks, leave 2 zealots on the ramp (3 o clock) and a high templar, this is more than enough.
As for how u should break the contain: group like 9 goons, 1 obs, 2 ht's together and push out little by little. This way u're not losing zealots needlessly vs lurkers and if a bunch of hydras or zergling attack your goons, just storm them.
Note that i'm talking about lurker contain on YOUR bridge (that's what i saw on the replay, maybe corrupted?). It's a different situation when zerg camps behind sunkens/spores/lurkers.

fefil

92 Posts

July 27 2019 21:24 GMT

Okay thank you I will definitely be focusing on being more active with my army. what were some of the other things that you were going to mention?

and i meant both. how do I break the sunken/spore/lurker/evo defense? part of the reason i dont move out much in pvz is because i dont see an efficient way to break that

Bonyth

Poland612 Posts

July 27 2019 23:08 GMT

I'm not a fan of theorycrafting, as in there is no 0 or 1 solutions of how u're supposed to break zerg. Each situation is unique and it requires your decision. Sometimes u can break the zerg, sometimes u can kill just the outsider hatcheries and sometimes u can't do anything about the camp, so u get your expansions and upgrades up while harassing the zerg with a shuttle while denying zerg's further expansions.
As i mentioned earlier, double forge will help u fight with zerg, especialy zerglings and cracklings.
As for other minor things, consistency of probe production would be the 1st. Also u have a habit of making probes even when your mineral line is depleted. Learn to make probes consistently until u reach a certain number. 40-60 would be good depending on how well u can macro and how many expansions u have. After that, just stop the production. Another minor probe thing: probe saturation in bases. On FS probe saturation should be: 9:7:8 (because thats how many mineral fields are in main/nat/2nd exp). Obviously the ratio doesnt have to be ideal, but avoid situation when 1 base has 20 probes in minerals, while the other has 10 or 12.
It's hard to judge your gameplay of a single replay but focus on doing something with your army as this is the thing that's going to boost your MMR significantly if improved. All the others remaining little errors will await you in the future (and it's not just about probes).

Anc13nt

1557 Posts

July 28 2019 01:32 GMT

Another problem was you had a ton of money so you should have taken a 4th and 5th soon after you broke the contain. In this case, you could've even taken the 4th during the contain because he had no vision near your third so you could've sneakily built a 4th. That said, a stronger zerg player would probably try to deny attempts at a 4th so that is why I said you should take it after you broke contain (because you have regained map control and can defend attempts to deny 4th). I also feel like you had problems gathering all your units in the midgame. Often you were out-supplying zerg but your army looked really small because you had a lot of idle units.

SuGo

United States681 Posts

July 28 2019 16:48 GMT

#10

On July 28 2019 05:59 Bonyth wrote:
i'm S rank protoss by the way, if u are suspicious of my tips.

XenOsky

Chile2358 Posts

July 29 2019 03:40 GMT

#11

On July 28 2019 05:59 Bonyth wrote:
i'm S rank protoss by the way, if u are suspicious of my tips.
.

that is quite humble calling yourself just an "S rank protoss" by the way.

fefil

92 Posts

July 29 2019 05:08 GMT

#12

i am honored to receive his advice

y2kid

92 Posts

August 02 2019 16:53 GMT

#13

LOL @ people doubting the GOAT at 2019 xD I mean if twitch and a bunch of tourneys did not exist, eeek sure but still no, but that's lol just L O L

ninazerg

United States7291 Posts

August 05 2019 01:35 GMT

#14

On July 28 2019 05:59 Bonyth wrote:
i'm S rank protoss by the way, if u are suspicious of my tips.

Well, it's not untrue.

JoinTheRain

Bulgaria409 Posts

August 07 2019 19:14 GMT

#15

Gobble that Bonyth advice like cupcakes. It will not get better for you than this - first hand tips from the best P outside of Korea.

ffswowsucks

Greece2298 Posts

August 07 2019 21:04 GMT

#16

On July 27 2019 08:15 fefil wrote:
replay: http://bwreplays.com/lu9pa

1700 protoss. here's what I can point out:

1. Coulda gone forge nexus cannon since my probe didnt scout many lings
2. core a few seconds late, had the money for it.
3. IDLE CORSAIRS, was too scared of scourge to move out. shouldn't have made as many as I did if i'm just gonna use them to scout then park them in my nat.
4. late templar archives, thankfully didnt matter
5. 10:45, my templar gets sniped and it had a storm
6. 11:58, my obs gets sniped and a misrally or something causes me to lose a handful of units for no reason
7. obs gets sniped again, if my corsairs werent afk at the bottom left they coulda prevented this
8. 14:40 my shuttle is afk at the top of the map for too long, think my logic was i was waiting for shuttle speed. however i am doing good harass with a DT at the bottom base. hes still effectively on 3 bases, i should be in the lead.
9. 15:45, good storm drop but too little too late
10. first of all, at 17:50, my shuttle flies right into his hydras when i knew for a fact he had his army there. stupid of me. second, this engagement sucks. i should have sent units through my third and flanked him. attacking over a bridge sucks.
11. holy shit I have so much money. 6k mins 2k gas
12. afk shuttle again at the bottom right....
13. 23:20, this engage was shit. shoulda just parked it and secured my fourth.

anything after this point doesnt matter.

so heres my summary:

- shit macro
- got contained and lost map control because my corsairs were afk and shuttles didnt do much
- sloppy engagements

what do you guys think? how am I meant to secure a fourth in this matchup? i understand that i am meant to put a robo at each expo, make some reavers, leave a couple HTs and with cannons that can hold off hundreds of zerg units. but what about when the nexus is building? i wont have cannons + simcity up instantly, i wont have the reavers there unless i bring them with a shuttle. you can see i tried making a robo at my fourth but he cancelled it before i could.

this is how a lot of my PvZs go lately. just looking for general advice. this style of play (cracklings, flanks, counter attacks, multiprong attacks) is hard for me to beat. my opponents apm was lower than mine so in theory i should be able to pull it off but I find it so hard to split my army perfectly and control the map.

i was thinking maybe i should just make 3 corsairs and not 5-6 like I did. it seems my multitasking isnt developed enough to take advantage of 6. i can improve still, i have only been playing a month. help me out pls

Agreed totally with Bonyth but reason you lost was you depleted all your minerals/gas and you didnt in the right time go out of your base and expand ever more. you should have had the whole down right part of the map. Plus at one point i noticed around the 15th min mark you had like 140-150 population and the zerg only 90 or something. You could have easily ended the game there. you went out with many HTs dragoons zealots and the guy only had some lings/hydras/lurkers outside your base and you decided to go back to your natural and just sit there.