EPTDA are extremely useful in every match up, but you need to keep an eye on the minimap to see when a HT/DA/defiler/queen/science vessel comes close to you (usually observers infront of your army should make that rather easy for you)
Units You Never Bother Making? - Page 13
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LML
Germany1774 Posts
DA are extremely useful in every match up, but you need to keep an eye on the minimap to see when a HT/DA/defiler/queen/science vessel comes close to you (usually observers infront of your army should make that rather easy for you) | ||
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KissBlade
United States5718 Posts
On June 26 2014 01:30 LML wrote: scouts are great to defend expansions against guardians in lategame (2 scouts should be enough), just make sure to have 1 or 2 HTs to storm incoming scourge, and always keep the scouts moving (micro them to only shoot guardians once and return, so they don't have to accelerate again, or they are dead when a scourge enters your vision). DA are extremely useful in every match up, but you need to keep an eye on the minimap to see when a HT/DA/defiler/queen/science vessel comes close to you (usually observers infront of your army should make that rather easy for you) The hell? Why wouldn't you just use Corsairs and do the same exact thing? (Especially since I believe Sairs are faster out of the box). On top of that, you don't need to accelerate cause you can patrol move to keep accelerate and sairs deal with scourges better anyway. | ||
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[[Starlight]]
United States1578 Posts
On June 28 2014 07:09 KissBlade wrote: The hell? Why wouldn't you just use Corsairs and do the same exact thing? (Especially since I believe Sairs are faster out of the box). 'Cuz Guardians have 2 armor? Takes a lot longer for a Corsair to kill a Guardian than for a Scout to do same (7 shots from a Scout, vs 50+ shots from a Corsair. Sair shoots almost 3x faster, but it's not near enough to make up the difference  ). Yeah, Sairs also do splash damage, but AFAIK the splash zones are 50% damage (inner) and 25% damage (outer), which means 'plink plink' against the Guardian's armor. Maybe if you had a LOT of sairs, the Guardians were stacked super-tightly? Maybe the real prob is that you don't seem to see Guards in ZvP much at all, so it's almost a moot point. | ||
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Nemesis
Canada2568 Posts
On June 26 2014 01:30 LML wrote: scouts are great to defend expansions against guardians in lategame (2 scouts should be enough), just make sure to have 1 or 2 HTs to storm incoming scourge, and always keep the scouts moving (micro them to only shoot guardians once and return, so they don't have to accelerate again, or they are dead when a scourge enters your vision). DA are extremely useful in every match up, but you need to keep an eye on the minimap to see when a HT/DA/defiler/queen/science vessel comes close to you (usually observers infront of your army should make that rather easy for you) Using the HT to storm the guardians is a lot faster way to kill guardians. Guardians are extremely slow, so they can't dodge storm. | ||
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puppykiller
United States3137 Posts
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Nemesis
Canada2568 Posts
On June 29 2014 07:54 puppykiller wrote: How are you going to storm 5+ split guardians? Obviously, you need 10+ storms :D Or 5+ storms + dragoons or corsairs. Is it even possible to split guardians into that many pieces out of range of storm while keeping them within attacking range without sending them one by one. Obviously they also have to come from the same side when they attack you. | ||
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puppykiller
United States3137 Posts
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Nemesis
Canada2568 Posts
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EndingLife
United States1598 Posts
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Piste
6181 Posts
Scouts are handy when there are devouvers, but still, fleet of corsairs with storm is the way to go, since scouts suck against scourges (even with storm support since storms can wear out pretty quickly). ps. scouts are pretty slow without speed upgrade, and the missile hit has more delay than with corsairs' attack. | ||
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puppykiller
United States3137 Posts
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[[Starlight]]
United States1578 Posts
On June 30 2014 18:15 Piste wrote: you should have enough corsairs to defend by the time zerg has his guardians, unless you've gone for unorthodox build. Scouts are handy when there are devouvers, but still, fleet of corsairs with storm is the way to go, since scouts suck against scourges (even with storm support since storms can wear out pretty quickly). ps. scouts are pretty slow without speed upgrade, and the missile hit has more delay than with corsairs' attack. Corsairs are slower to kill guardians than scouts can, unless the guardians are stacked pretty darn tightly. Test it and see. The guards' 2 armor really does make a difference. | ||
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EndingLife
United States1598 Posts
On June 30 2014 18:32 puppykiller wrote: Idk to me gaurdians feel almost impossible to deal with late game pvz unless z mess up and suicide them. Well making scouts are not the best response, for numberous reasons. They take forever to build, they are very expensive, and you will only have 1 stargate pumping scouts. You'd rather waste all that money on scouts that can get sniped by scourge so easily instead of making a gas ground army? The zerg isn't ONLY going to make guardians. The zerg is on hive...he will be swam/ling attacking expos. Assuming you don't get scout upgrades from fleet beacon, and only have +1 from initial sairs, (If you even made +1 sairs in the early game) why would you choose scouts over goons/templar/archons that are probably +3 attack and maybe even some armor upgrades? You should already have at LEAST one templar at all your expos, probably even 2 if he's on hive. | ||
BisuDagger
Bisutopia19300 Posts
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intotheheart
Canada33091 Posts
On July 02 2014 06:40 BisuDagger wrote: If you are building scouts in PvZ you are doing it wrong. Yay any anti-air Zerg unit. Unless you're super far ahead in upgrades, anyway, but at that point, you're probably so far ahead, it doesn't matter what right and wrong are. | ||
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[[Starlight]]
United States1578 Posts
On July 02 2014 06:40 BisuDagger wrote: If you are building scouts in PvZ you are doing it wrong. If someone was going Guardians against me on the right map/was using terrain and cliffs effectively against me, I'd happily build some Scouts. Ditto vs a Terran going mass BCs against me. But, since neither thing happens more than once in a blue moon, kind of a moot thing to debate. I get the weird feeling it wouldn't take much to tilt Scouts back into being widely viable, as in the pre-1.04 days. Something like being upped to 10 ground damage, plus the speed upgrade being cheaper/faster to research. Maybe a minor unit cost cut too, to say 250/125. 275/125 just LOOKS like a lot more, for some reason. Would be awesome to see some Scout packs doing worker harass once in awhile, and not just as a fluke 'surprise' thing 1 game out of 300, or when someone who'd already essentially won the game wanted to rub it in. | ||
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rich-
United States144 Posts
How else will your opponent know that he is laughably bad? | ||
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Bill Murray
United States9292 Posts
On June 30 2014 18:32 puppykiller wrote: Idk to me gaurdians feel almost impossible to deal with late game pvz unless z mess up and suicide them. mind control them maelstrom storm arbiter stasis have 11 corsairs and a probe on a hotkey there are so many methods ... just use map terrain | ||
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Bill Murray
United States9292 Posts
On July 03 2014 18:04 [[Starlight]] wrote: If someone was going Guardians against me on the right map/was using terrain and cliffs effectively against me, I'd happily build some Scouts. Ditto vs a Terran going mass BCs against me. But, since neither thing happens more than once in a blue moon, kind of a moot thing to debate. I get the weird feeling it wouldn't take much to tilt Scouts back into being widely viable, as in the pre-1.04 days. Something like being upped to 10 ground damage, plus the speed upgrade being cheaper/faster to research. Maybe a minor unit cost cut too, to say 250/125. 275/125 just LOOKS like a lot more, for some reason. Would be awesome to see some Scout packs doing worker harass once in awhile, and not just as a fluke 'surprise' thing 1 game out of 300, or when someone who'd already essentially won the game wanted to rub it in. If you get a group of them with a boxed in probe + scout speed it's actually so crazy good it's not even funny it's just, if you've dumped that much money into it, you will probably lose elsewhere on the map it's probably something you should invest in over time as you win skirmishes | ||
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WhiteKnight.US
Great Britain102 Posts
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