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When is a good rule of thumb of when you are supposed to Mech switch in TvZ?
Does anyone still go Bio+Mines in TvP?
Why don't people use Ensnare + Cracklings against bio more than Plague + Cracklings in ZvT?
Is it a sound strategy to switch to Bio if Protoss makes Carriers in TvP?
It seems to me like you would need Reaver scarab upgrade damage to fight Mech in PvT. Do the Reavers try to kill Mech units or just harass economy? 25 damage doesn't seem enough to kill Tanks.
Does ZvT ever see Hydra-Lurk builds especially if T reteched to Bio from 1 Fact 1 Starport builds?
In TvT, is it unheard of to try 2-3 Fact and adding Bio to surprise?
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On July 02 2017 00:20 Alpha-NP- wrote:
Is it a sound strategy to switch to Bio if Protoss makes Carriers in TvP?
It seems to me like you would need Reaver scarab upgrade damage to fight Mech in PvT. Do the Reavers try to kill Mech units or just harass economy? 25 damage doesn't seem enough to kill Tanks.
I would say no because if P has carrier, your only window of strength with bio is if you have enough that they will be able to kill interceptors quickly, and P only needs the time to add storm to his tech or use a few reavers to counter your bio switch.. but if you can deny the attack strength of the carriers on your bases or your big units keep them disable the carriers and overpower his ground thats nice play  sounds hard to do, problem of upgrades too (though if you make simultaneously goliaths out of your factories?? lol)
reaver scarab in pvt vs mech: i think its worth it just you will probably want shuttle speed before, and then if you make more reavers and just cause more scarab explosions the reaver scarab dmg upgrade yeah its worth it it wont kill one tank in less hits (unless it was bit dmgd) but it will kill more units in splash per explosion or destroy structures more quickly like supply depots are a great target.. more scvs could die in a hit splash too
its a rather big investment though so timing . .
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Singapore4139 Posts
On July 02 2017 00:20 Alpha-NP- wrote:
When is a good rule of thumb of when you are supposed to Mech switch in TvZ?
Does anyone still go Bio+Mines in TvP?
Why don't people use Ensnare + Cracklings against bio more than Plague + Cracklings in ZvT?
Is it a sound strategy to switch to Bio if Protoss makes Carriers in TvP?
It seems to me like you would need Reaver scarab upgrade damage to fight Mech in PvT. Do the Reavers try to kill Mech units or just harass economy? 25 damage doesn't seem enough to kill Tanks.
Does ZvT ever see Hydra-Lurk builds especially if T reteched to Bio from 1 Fact 1 Starport builds?
In TvT, is it unheard of to try 2-3 Fact and adding Bio to surprise?
After Zerg sets up his 3rd and takes his 4th is when you should be looking to switch, starting with laying mines.
Plague actually does damage compared to ensare which helps cracklings clean up bio much faster. And if T adds some firebats into the mix ensare isn't going to do much. Lastly defliers are much more important (dark swarm) compared to getting queens where ensare will only be useful in certain situations.
Absolutely no, P can scout this easily and make reavers/templar and you're screwed. Not to mention you'll have to make rax/upgrade stim + range/+1.
You only make reavers early/mid game to harass T's economy, not to kill tanks, so there's no point getting the damage upgrade.
Not really sure but can be a good idea since T will be low on bio units for awhile.
Not unheard of the was a game where someone won with bio TvT.
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On July 02 2017 00:20 Alpha-NP- wrote:
When is a good rule of thumb of when you are supposed to Mech switch in TvZ?
Does anyone still go Bio+Mines in TvP?
Why don't people use Ensnare + Cracklings against bio more than Plague + Cracklings in ZvT?
Is it a sound strategy to switch to Bio if Protoss makes Carriers in TvP?
It seems to me like you would need Reaver scarab upgrade damage to fight Mech in PvT. Do the Reavers try to kill Mech units or just harass economy? 25 damage doesn't seem enough to kill Tanks.
Does ZvT ever see Hydra-Lurk builds especially if T reteched to Bio from 1 Fact 1 Starport builds?
In TvT, is it unheard of to try 2-3 Fact and adding Bio to surprise?
To add to the above response:
1. I heard that it is popular to do the transition when you move out with your 3 Tank 1 Vessel push if you think you will successfully gain map control (meaning, you're not late, and Consume is not yet done).
2. Haven't seen any games since UpMagic. Sea.Really.
3. Haven't seen any games of this since Jaedong vs. Fantasy on Chupung Ryung. As someone else mentioned, Plague not only damages the units but also it depletes Medic energy, making cleaning up armies much easier.
4. As other poster mentioned, it would require an entirely new tech tree when you already have mass Factory and Goliaths with insane range.
5. You don't use Reavers to fight Mech PvT after the early game. That's where your first mistake is.
6. Hydra-Lurk builds are outdated but you can still see them occasionally, but not in the form they had 10+ years ago. Shine vs. Mong on Camelot is one such example.
7. It is unheard of because it is stupid. Bio melts to Mech.
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Its kinda rare, best was doing this multiple reavers and try to kill as many T units as he could the other day I think, cant remember if he used the dmg upgrade
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A simple question about map making: I wanna create a UMS map and I want f.e. ghost to be available to player from very start, without getting any tech just like marines. What I do is go to Settings -> Units -> Ghost and untick Use Defaults and make it Enabled for Player 1. But when I start playing ghost still unavalaible at start, I need to make cover opts. I'm sure other settings working - I changed it's name and when ghost pops out it's that name I entered but still can't make him available at start. Is there an option like that? I'm pretty sure you could make unit available instantly or even disable it.
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On July 03 2017 13:17 outscar wrote:
A simple question about map making: I wanna create a UMS map and I want f.e. ghost to be available to player from very start, without getting any tech just like marines. What I do is go to Settings -> Units -> Ghost and untick Use Defaults and make it Enabled for Player 1. But when I start playing ghost still unavalaible at start, I need to make cover opts. I'm sure other settings working - I changed it's name and when ghost pops out it's that name I entered but still can't make him available at start. Is there an option like that? I'm pretty sure you could make unit available instantly or even disable it.
Isn't that why all those UMS games have a bunch of buildings stacked on top of each other in the corner, so that you can have those units and get that research? Why not just do that instead? Otherwise, I recommend going to the Lifebot thread here:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/brood-war/524264-offering-trigger-help-to-map-makers
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On July 03 2017 13:20 Jealous wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2017 13:17 outscar wrote:
A simple question about map making: I wanna create a UMS map and I want f.e. ghost to be available to player from very start, without getting any tech just like marines. What I do is go to Settings -> Units -> Ghost and untick Use Defaults and make it Enabled for Player 1. But when I start playing ghost still unavalaible at start, I need to make cover opts. I'm sure other settings working - I changed it's name and when ghost pops out it's that name I entered but still can't make him available at start. Is there an option like that? I'm pretty sure you could make unit available instantly or even disable it. Isn't that why all those UMS games have a bunch of buildings stacked on top of each other in the corner, so that you can have those units and get that research? Why not just do that instead? Otherwise, I recommend going to the Lifebot thread here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/brood-war/524264-offering-trigger-help-to-map-makers
Thing is I just wanna test some basic 1v1 gameplay with friend where you start with town hall and 4 workers but + some units available.
Thanks for link, adressed him on discord.
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On July 03 2017 13:27 outscar wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2017 13:20 Jealous wrote:On July 03 2017 13:17 outscar wrote:
A simple question about map making: I wanna create a UMS map and I want f.e. ghost to be available to player from very start, without getting any tech just like marines. What I do is go to Settings -> Units -> Ghost and untick Use Defaults and make it Enabled for Player 1. But when I start playing ghost still unavalaible at start, I need to make cover opts. I'm sure other settings working - I changed it's name and when ghost pops out it's that name I entered but still can't make him available at start. Is there an option like that? I'm pretty sure you could make unit available instantly or even disable it. Isn't that why all those UMS games have a bunch of buildings stacked on top of each other in the corner, so that you can have those units and get that research? Why not just do that instead? Otherwise, I recommend going to the Lifebot thread here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/brood-war/524264-offering-trigger-help-to-map-makers Thing is I just wanna test some basic 1v1 gameplay with friend where you start with town hall and 4 workers but + some units available. Thanks for link, adressed him on discord.
Yea, but, you could just have those building stacked somewhere in the corner where they won't interfere with the game? Just a thought of how to make this the easy way
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On July 03 2017 13:39 Jealous wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2017 13:27 outscar wrote:On July 03 2017 13:20 Jealous wrote:On July 03 2017 13:17 outscar wrote:
A simple question about map making: I wanna create a UMS map and I want f.e. ghost to be available to player from very start, without getting any tech just like marines. What I do is go to Settings -> Units -> Ghost and untick Use Defaults and make it Enabled for Player 1. But when I start playing ghost still unavalaible at start, I need to make cover opts. I'm sure other settings working - I changed it's name and when ghost pops out it's that name I entered but still can't make him available at start. Is there an option like that? I'm pretty sure you could make unit available instantly or even disable it. Isn't that why all those UMS games have a bunch of buildings stacked on top of each other in the corner, so that you can have those units and get that research? Why not just do that instead? Otherwise, I recommend going to the Lifebot thread here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/brood-war/524264-offering-trigger-help-to-map-makers Thing is I just wanna test some basic 1v1 gameplay with friend where you start with town hall and 4 workers but + some units available. Thanks for link, adressed him on discord. Yea, but, you could just have those building stacked somewhere in the corner where they won't interfere with the game? Just a thought of how to make this the easy way
Well then I end up getting so many tech available very fast at start (medic, vessel etc.) just to make only ghost which breaks the later fun  Waiting answer from him, maybe there's special script for that ^^
I talked with him and there's no way to make unit available without having tech but he gave me a good idea: I can remove early available units such as medic via triggers and give minerals back until X time. Could be cool if those limitations were removed. Maybe SC:R will release some powerful editor but I doubt if they're working on that.
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A long shot, but maybe this video can help you, it's about scourge dodging / abusing.
After watching that 2min video: when they do a 180, you could respond with a 90?
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I've been going 1base Sair-Reaver PvZ, but I always have trouble taking my natural expansion against Hydras. Anyone have advice? Do I have to wait until I have X numbers of Reavers before it is worth risking it to expand?
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On July 05 2017 00:22 Alpha-NP- wrote:
I've been going 1base Sair-Reaver PvZ, but I always have trouble taking my natural expansion against Hydras. Anyone have advice? Do I have to wait until I have X numbers of Reavers before it is worth risking it to expand?
I've been doing a lot of 1 base against Z for a long time cause I refused to FE always, and instead always not FE'd lol. Honestly, my conclusion is that playing 1 base against Z is disadvantageous overall, but can lead to an advantage for example while Z makes openings that assume that you FE'd (which cost you more to defend or attack very early on). Many times Z will take options that easily deny your attacking off 1 gate/1gas, while having opportunities to also delay or threaten your nat while you struggle to come out on the map and preventing him from getting more drones or hatcheries up. Now the way I've been doing this more often is by opening 1 sair => DT to expo and this isn't bad vs hydralisks unless the Z makes a big early sacrifice to bring a bunch up rly fast and protect their ovis that are close or coming to your base (a fight you could win). Cause then you can go light cost and expo + tech up... and potentially threaten a bit if you make more corsairs and DTs or smtg. So sair reaver its just different, I think off 1 base you'd want to make an amount of goons or zealots to complement especially quickly after having taken nat, but yeah a few reavers sound like good defense against hydras they take a while to come out though, robo better not be at the other side of base eh maybe show reps! (also shield battery is cheap and good at protecting reavers on a defense point)
your second question I would say if you can expo before the first reaver is even out, thats great, depends.. on what you scouted/are scouting and the earlier game
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On July 05 2017 00:22 Alpha-NP- wrote:
I've been going 1base Sair-Reaver PvZ, but I always have trouble taking my natural expansion against Hydras. Anyone have advice? Do I have to wait until I have X numbers of Reavers before it is worth risking it to expand?
I've been playing this build for a couple years on the casual level myself. It's a fun build even though it sucks compared to FFE+Standard and won't work against superior/higher level players.
They key IMO is to stop Sair production when you see that they are going Hydralisk. I make no more than 1 Corsair after I see no Lair/Spire.
My build order goes something like this:
8 Pylon
10 Gate
12 Gas, 3 Probes
13 Zealot
15 Pylon (If I scout that they went 12 Hatch, I delay my second Zealot and make a Cybernetics Core here instead)
@100 Minerals 2nd Zealot
@200 Minerals Cybernetics Core
@Cyber 100% - Dragoon, use Dragoon to hold ramp and/or patrol the edge of the base to kill scouting Overlord
Continue making Dragoons when it does not impede your tech climb.
@150 Gas/Mineral - Stargate
@200/200 - Robotics Facility
@Stargate 100% - 1 Corsair
@Robotics 100% - Robotics Support Bay -> Shuttle
@Robotics Support Bay 100% - Shuttle Speed
It's okay to delay your first Reaver a little bit to get this upgrade because Zerg is unlikely to have enough to bust you (keep your scouting Probe alive to make sure). You should not be attacking Zerg until this upgrade finishes; I sometimes just camp outside their air space until the upgrade finishes.
@100% Reaver - 2nd Reaver, Forge
Place Pylon on your high ground in your main in such a way that you can place Cannons in your natural so you can throw them down as soon as you move out to expand.
While you are harassing with your Speed Shuttle and Corsair (I like to deflect Hydralisk attention with Corsair, bait them to chase Corsair away, then fly in with Shuttle, rinse repeat), you should move out to your natural with your second Reaver. At this point you can either invest in Range upgrade for Dragoons and add 2-3 Gateways and go for a bust, or you can invest in +1 Attack and expand while transitioning into Templar play. You immediately throw down 2-3 Cannons using the high ground Pylon and add another Pylon by the Nexus to help expand your buildable area. If they have a large force containing you, that means they have few drones so your economic harass should be particularly effective. They are also unlikely to have a lot of Hydralisks left to defend their bases.
If they are trying to bust you early on with mass Ling/Hydra, you should get Forge+Cannon on high ground sooner, and keep your first Reaver in your base to hold. They are investing a lot of their larva into this and thus should have a relatively weak economy, whereas you are consistently producing Probes so your economy will be great when you expand and transfer Probes.
If they delay your expansion for quite some time, on maps like FS you can definitely get away with double-expanding as you harass and once you move out with 2-3 Reavers +some support units from your main into your natural. I usually just return with my Shuttle briefly to drop off the Reaver in the third, send a probe to make Pylon + Cannons, and 2 Zealots to block the ramp (with a gap in between that can allow Scarabs down).
Here is a recent 1.18 replay of me doing this build somewhat poorly but enough to get the general gist. In general you don't want to put your Robotics in a place where they can scout it if they run units up the ramp, so I made that mistake here so he was prepared for the Shuttle. Still, it answers your question pretty well I think:
http://bwreplays.com/nmf63
Here's an FPVOD example:
+ Show Spoiler +
L_Master cast of the above VOD:
+ Show Spoiler +
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Why do people go 12 hatch instead of 11 hatch or 13 hatch?
For example, wouldn't 11 hatch 10 pool be safer against bunker rushes? (or is it actually no difference in timing)
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Norway28712 Posts
i just constantly build drones and then make a hatch when I get 300. that happens to be 12 - waiting any further is pointless. vs bunker rushes you're often pulling like 8 drones - makes a big difference whether you have 5 or 3 drones still mining. I guess 11 hatch 10 pool is safer vs bunker rushes though but it's worse if they don't, and people are more likely to not bunker rush than to bunker rush, and pre-scouting, you want your build to perform better against his most likely strategy of choice rather than be something that doesn't die against anything. Like, my past 500 1v1 games I think I've been 4pooled once. Consequently, I have no issues with going for an opening that actually dies against 4pools if it's significantly better vs overpool or 2 hatch.
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You get bunker rushed like a quarter of the time on ladder. 100% of the time if your opponent is Lumix.
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We don't touch the sacred mineral patch.
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EPT
