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Danger_Duck
Burkina Faso571 Posts
On July 15 2011 02:43 Mortician wrote: What should I do vs 1 base tech toss as Z, assuming I opened 9 pool? Take a natural, put a 3rd hatch and evo/hydra den up, then sack an ovie to see the gateway count. That way you can adjust sunken count accordingly and know whether you can drone more or need hydra/ling | ||
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Danger_Duck
Burkina Faso571 Posts
On July 14 2011 14:21 Release wrote: I remember tasteless once said "a few drones[3] going down, well worth the 4 zealots alone" and i can't see how on earth 4 zealots are worth 3 drone. Because of how hatcheries work, the mining time is too minimal to make up for the loss of 250 minerals (even if it was P or T, mining time doesn't justify 250 minerals) in a matchup where the protoss have less bases anyways. Why are 4 zealots worth 3 drones? What is the most efficient way, short of having tons of bases, to tackle archon reaver as a zerg? If it was THAT late game, he was wrong, lol. I think the point is that zerg generally have fewer drones => greater mining efficiency, so loss of zerg workers is greater eco hurt. As for archon reaver, it depends in what number. If it's late game, you're pretty much screwed. If it's mid, just abuse your mobility and bypass it, don't try to directly engage the ball and pick off reinforcements with hydra/scourge while using lurkers to guard position | ||
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Danger_Duck
Burkina Faso571 Posts
On July 14 2011 02:46 Azerbaijan wrote: In ZvP what do I look for to confirm a +1 speedlot timing and Is there another way to respond besides mutas? Dude, mutas is wrong way to respond, haha. Choke your naturals with hatch/evo/den and make hydras. You can tell it's coming by the forge upgrade....speed will typically finish before the +1. Many a time I have went muta to kill a bunch of workers only to die to mass zeal  | ||
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Danger_Duck
Burkina Faso571 Posts
On July 11 2011 12:10 Release wrote: Why is +2 attack +1 armor always considered so strong on a mech army? Every time a mech army has those upgrades, english commentators suggest that they are incredibly strong. Mech attack upgrades scale inordinately (for instance, +2 on goliath air turns 20 into 28), and the +1 armor turns the 1 base armor to 2. Doesn't sound big, but this means zerglings now do 3 damage (40% less) unupgraded and zeals do 12 damage (25% less). Also, it's a relative advantage-2/1 means double armory, and is timed for little or no upgrades on the other side. | ||
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Azerbaijan
United States660 Posts
On July 15 2011 12:19 Danger_Duck wrote: Dude, mutas is wrong way to respond, haha. Choke your naturals with hatch/evo/den and make hydras. You can tell it's coming by the forge upgrade....speed will typically finish before the +1. Many a time I have went muta to kill a bunch of workers only to die to mass zeal "+1 Speedlot rush - Against a +1 Speedlot rush, the player must place the natural gas and go Mutalisks as soon as he realizes what the Protoss is doing. " From liquipedia. I know that is not the only way to respond and I would be walling my chokes in any case. | ||
Release
United States4397 Posts
On July 15 2011 12:25 Danger_Duck wrote: Mech attack upgrades scale inordinately (for instance, +2 on goliath air turns 20 into 28), and the +1 armor turns the 1 base armor to 2. Doesn't sound big, but this means zerglings now do 3 damage (40% less) unupgraded and zeals do 12 damage (25% less). Also, it's a relative advantage-2/1 means double armory, and is timed for little or no upgrades on the other side. I see how the TvP helps. 11 hits instead of 9 for zealots. If a partial hit is taken, does it round up or down. For example, a "6.75" hit would do 6 or 7 dmg? | ||
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naneri
Kyrgyzstan165 Posts
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naneri
Kyrgyzstan165 Posts
On July 15 2011 12:25 Danger_Duck wrote: Mech attack upgrades scale inordinately (for instance, +2 on goliath air turns 20 into 28), and the +1 armor turns the 1 base armor to 2. Doesn't sound big, but this means zerglings now do 3 damage (40% less) unupgraded and zeals do 12 damage (25% less). Also, it's a relative advantage-2/1 means double armory, and is timed for little or no upgrades on the other side. lol. These are not the main reasons  . The main reason is that Tanks splash is upgraded directly. So for instance tank does 70 damge to a unit, 35 to very close units and 15 to close, and if you get +2 upgrade it will do 70+10, 35+10 and 15+10 and that really matters. I am not sure that there are exactly these numbers, but i am sure that it is the main reason. In VOD of russian Terran Brat_Ok he explained why 2-0 grades are better then even 1-3 grades for TvP. | ||
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WarSame
Canada1950 Posts
On July 15 2011 12:54 Azerbaijan wrote: "+1 Speedlot rush - Against a +1 Speedlot rush, the player must place the natural gas and go Mutalisks as soon as he realizes what the Protoss is doing. " From liquipedia. I know that is not the only way to respond and I would be walling my chokes in any case. I had always thought that +1 Speedzeal was the counter to muta? You would have to defend with only sling sunker colonies, because they timing would be before mutas. This would mean that you'd either have to invest heavily in sunkens or lose all your lings and drones. | ||
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WarSame
Canada1950 Posts
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naneri
Kyrgyzstan165 Posts
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Azerbaijan
United States660 Posts
On July 15 2011 14:12 Peterblue wrote: I had always thought that +1 Speedzeal was the counter to muta? You would have to defend with only sling sunker colonies, because they timing would be before mutas. This would mean that you'd either have to invest heavily in sunkens or lose all your lings and drones. I think the idea is that assuming you sunken up properly the mutas can come out just in time to clean up the zealots while they try to break your nat or third. You do invest a lot in sunkens but if you keep your third base you are still a base up with good economy and air control. | ||
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Bwenjarin Raffrack
United States322 Posts
On July 15 2011 13:14 Release wrote: I see how the TvP helps. 11 hits instead of 9 for zealots. If a partial hit is taken, does it round up or down. For example, a "6.75" hit would do 6 or 7 dmg? There's no big rounding taking place in the game's damage calculations; essentially, the only rounding is visual. Health itself is recorded in the game as 256 times the health displayed, so damage is calculated to an accuracy of 1/256 of a health point. For example, irradiate does 853/256 (or 3.33203125) damage every 8 frames for 600 frames for a total damage of ~249.9. On July 15 2011 13:21 naneri wrote: lol. These are not the main reasons . The main reason is that Tanks splash is upgraded directly. So for instance tank does 70 damge to a unit, 35 to very close units and 15 to close, and if you get +2 upgrade it will do 70+10, 35+10 and 15+10 and that really matters. I am not sure that there are exactly these numbers, but i am sure that it is the main reason. In VOD of russian Terran Brat_Ok he explained why 2-0 grades are better then even 1-3 grades for TvP. Yes, this is one of the main reasons why Terran's mech upgrades are so powerful, but I'd like to clarify that the upgrades are scaled as well. For example, the 100% | 50% | 25% splash damages for a 0-0 siege tank would be 70/35/17.5. For a 2-1 siege tank, the damages would be 80/40/20. Aside from increasing the siege tank's splash significantly, the upgrades also reduce the number of hits required to kill zealots with vultures and interceptors with goliaths. The mech army's high damage per attack also means that the Protoss's armor upgrades don't have as big of an impact as they otherwise would, making the upgrade war somewhat one-sided. | ||
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Release
United States4397 Posts
Horang2 mentioned that 1rax FE TvP gave terran an advantage, but protoss countered it. What was the counter he spoke of? | ||
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almond
115 Posts
On July 15 2011 16:10 Release wrote: is tank splash 70/35/15 or 70/35/17.5 and how does it scale? Is it +5/+5/+5 or +5/+2.5/+1.25? Horang2 mentioned that 1rax FE TvP gave terran an advantage, but protoss countered it. What was the counter he spoke of? Watch Bisu vs Flash on Aztec. It's probably that...forward gate zealot harass into expo. | ||
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lyAsakura
United States1414 Posts
On July 15 2011 14:27 naneri wrote: acctually u already have 2 marines when zerg plays 9 pool, so if he plays 12 hatch you must at least have 4, and then normal zerg never sends 6 lings to bother terran because 1 ling has to chase scv, Even if he sends 6 - you have scvs to micro and 4 marines - that is a lot. no you only have one marine when they 9 pool and you have 2 marines when they 12 hatch and if you see them build 6 lings, the easiest and best way is just build a bunker at your nat | ||
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JMave
Singapore1806 Posts
On July 15 2011 02:43 Mortician wrote: What should I do vs 1 base tech toss as Z, assuming I opened 9 pool? you may be able to get up his ramp if you went 9 pool because he might only have 1 zealot out. but in either case, get your nat hatchery and your third hatchery. it is usually better to get lair with first 100 gas than first 50 gas hydra den then lair. this is so that if he skimps on cannons, you can easily attack him with a smaller hydra group without the fear of dts pushing your attack force back. there is no need to get spores against first corsair because for first 50 gas den, your hydra is out to stop the sair. just so you know, gateway count is irrelevant in that situation if he went tech because there is no way he is going to hold you off without reavers or templars. | ||
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JMave
Singapore1806 Posts
On July 15 2011 17:20 almond wrote: Watch Bisu vs Flash on Aztec. It's probably that...forward gate zealot harass into expo. the forward 1 gate into double expand before second gateway and possibly more significant to note before goon range. | ||
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naneri
Kyrgyzstan165 Posts
On July 15 2011 16:10 Release wrote: is tank splash 70/35/15 or 70/35/17.5 and how does it scale? Is it +5/+5/+5 or +5/+2.5/+1.25? Horang2 mentioned that 1rax FE TvP gave terran an advantage, but protoss countered it. What was the counter he spoke of? bisu build - gate core gate nexus before starting goons and after that fast third | ||
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therockmanxx
Peru1174 Posts
Whats the critical mass of marines I SHOUDNT attack with only lings in the mid-game?? (After mutas harras or an attempt of this) | ||
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