Using arbiters effectively (asking for help)

Tal

United Kingdom1017 Posts

November 04 2004 05:11 GMT

Quite a few of what seem to be the best toss users on teamliquid, seem to basically use arbiters as a large part of their game plan. Whenever I've tried doing this, i've tended to get the timing HORRIBLY wrong, or lose them to goliaths or just die to a slow push.

If someone could take the time to give me the basics of effective arbiter use, it would be appreciated, as I quite like the idea of a different style of play vs terran.

On a completely unrelated topic (except it's BW), does anyone have any good strategy guides (e.g links to huatamaki style pages) for learning zerg vs protoss? I hate pvp a lot, but am struggling to get good as zerg.

Capulet

Canada686 Posts

November 04 2004 05:50 GMT

I have never seen ppl use arbiters as a part of their initial strat. It takes too long to build them.

The only time that I've ever needed/used them was in a PvZ stalemate game. I had half the map and he had 1/3 of the map. I was maxed, he was maxed and he also had like 100000 sunks. I recalled some of my army into his main base and he retreated all his men to save it (dumbass). Then I placed 3 zeals at the ramp, statis field it and then I placed 2 dts behind my frozen zeals (You'd be surprised about how many zerg users who don't keep a lord at their ramp). With his entire army trapped in his base, I was free to destroy the everything else.

ieatkids5

United States4628 Posts

November 04 2004 05:59 GMT

arbs are sometimes used in late game pvt for cloaking goons, temps and zelaots, stasis, and recall.
Stasising clusters of tanks can really help break a push
Recalling into their main base where all the factories all can also screw a terran up because they will have to build their 15 factories back with machine shops. It will cost them an immense amount of time and resources.

on.sp33d

134 Posts

November 04 2004 06:15 GMT

Arbitars are usually used late in the game, and only when the protoss player decides it would be wise to. The "build" or strategy would matter too, but if it can give a significant advantage, by all means, use it.

Now for the answering. Against Terran, play as either you usually do, or use the best method that'll work for you. Once you get at least three expansions, two containing gas, it should be safe and stable to work up the tech tree and begin making Arbitars. Just be sure to watch out for the turrent/metal pushes and the goliaths lying around... it can be difficult to sneak up against a Terran, although stasis can always be fun.

Refrain[FriZ]

Canada4337 Posts

November 04 2004 06:23 GMT

I will refrain (LOL PUN) from adding any more input and will sit idly here with my arms crossed awaiting BigBalls' big (LAWL DOUBLE PUN) post in this thread; read it, and never lose another PvT.

rpf289

United States3524 Posts

November 04 2004 06:40 GMT

recall on a fast push, recall on his facts after he sets up if he slow pushes

other than PvT i dont think ive seen a pro use an arb.. =\

fEAthEr

Canada482 Posts

November 04 2004 06:51 GMT

i use arbs whenever they go for a fancy hit and run routine, so you stasis them and horde in around the units that hs been doing in and wait for them to thaw

pheered.user

United States2603 Posts

November 04 2004 06:52 GMT

rekrul is a pro, ive seen him use them in all 3 matchups :O

Arbiter[frolix]

United Kingdom2674 Posts

November 04 2004 06:56 GMT

Arbiters rule.

SpuniasauR

Australia1500 Posts

November 04 2004 07:11 GMT

#10

well you know that recall is excellent for those hard to reach places. stasis helps with troop clusters, remember to time roughly a minute and storm/goon surround the units in the stasis. but dont forget the cloaking. pvt it will force a terran to keep his scans empty and (if he hasnt already) put up a science fac and tech upwards.

UNiMEDiA

United States25 Posts

November 04 2004 07:23 GMT

#11

I think that using hallucination is better than arbiters. I agree that arbiters can be useful, however the tech tree, and build time to get to them makes them less useful then 8 Temps with hallucinate.

8 temps with 200 energy each should be used in this way. Take two of the templars, use them both to hallucinate zeals. this will give you 8 hallucinated Zeals. Morph those two templars.

With the remaining 6 temps, ( or however many u have) target the morping archone for hallucination. This will give you 24 Hallucinated archons. Morph the rest of your temps into archons. Its best to use the hallucinated units on move command, and run them straight through the push u r trying to break. In this way, not only will your hallucinated zeals pick up some of the spider mines, those 24 archons will force the tanks to shoot among themselves, leaving your real army to hit the front without any losses before they actually start plugging away at the tanks.

Ive had great success with this strat in breaking through a heavily entrenched terran in the middle. Of course, this is not a strat to head for when playing pvt. But, if you find that you are at a stalemate in the center of land maps, and you have plenty of gas, This strat almost always ensures a breakthrough. Of course, if ur building this many temps, im assuming that you cannnot break his siege, and you have been maxed before. This is a late game way to break a dominated center by terran, DONT "go" for this.

OhThatDang

United States4685 Posts

November 04 2004 07:27 GMT

#12

On November 04 2004 16:23 UNiMEDiA wrote:
I think that using hallucination is better than arbiters. I agree that arbiters can be useful, however the tech tree, and build time to get to them makes them less useful then 8 Temps with hallucinate.

8 temps with 200 energy each should be used in this way. Take two of the templars, use them both to hallucinate zeals. this will give you 8 hallucinated Zeals. Morph those two templars.

With the remaining 6 temps, ( or however many u have) target the morping archone for hallucination. This will give you 24 Hallucinated archons. Morph the rest of your temps into archons. Its best to use the hallucinated units on move command, and run them straight through the push u r trying to break. In this way, not only will your hallucinated zeals pick up some of the spider mines, those 24 archons will force the tanks to shoot among themselves, leaving your real army to hit the front without any losses before they actually start plugging away at the tanks.

Ive had great success with this strat in breaking through a heavily entrenched terran in the middle. Of course, this is not a strat to head for when playing pvt. But, if you find that you are at a stalemate in the center of land maps, and you have plenty of gas, This strat almost always ensures a breakthrough. Of course, if ur building this many temps, im assuming that you cannnot break his siege, and you have been maxed before. This is a late game way to break a dominated center by terran, DONT "go" for this.

but...POD master sir he wants to know when to use arbs and how to use them effectively

anyways i use them mid game sometimes :p just to torture them a bit so they cant keep pushing and pushing they will tend to stay back and wait for another recall

UNiMEDiA

United States25 Posts

November 04 2004 07:32 GMT

#13

Right, Im saying, temps are a better alt to arbiters. IM assuming, and correct me if im wrong, cuz i know many ppl who like to go mass arbs on bgh cuz its fun (esspecially with mass vessel); anyways... im assuming he wants to win the game, not just build arbiters for the sake of it. So, my argument is, temps provide a more practical, and more decisive alternative.

Arbiters are useful, i just find strats involving them fragile.

BigBalls

United States5354 Posts

November 04 2004 08:02 GMT

#14

I go arbs in every matchup, but less in pvz than the others.

in pvz: stasising ultra rules. check this rep of me v midian:

http://www.teamliquid.net/replay/download.php?replay=533

However, i believe arbs are ESSENTIAL in pvp, and a great option in pvt.

In pvp: stasis is ABSOLUTELY AMAZING. I have about 3-4 reps against rek where arbiters basically make the difference in the game. I'll be glad to share those if you like. Otherwise, check out this rep of a game i just played:

http://www.wgtour.com/info.php?datab=broodwar&id=21658

check out the game against terranssabu where i win on bifrost.

Against t: Stasis is great, recall is great. Basically against fast pushers, use stasis, against turtle, slow pushers, use recall. I often use both. Carriers are just as good, but i just prefer arbs.

Ill explain more later, but I'm buzzing hardcore off dip right now and im incoherent, lol.

Capulet

Canada686 Posts

November 04 2004 08:33 GMT

#15

Yeah... what BigBalls said. Intead of dropping 4 zeals on the tanks of a turtling terran, you can substitute it with stasis.

XaI)CyRiC

United States4471 Posts

November 04 2004 08:59 GMT

#16

It seems that when I'm on the receiving end of Arbs as a T, the cloaking helps a lot b/c zlots and goons are able to cover valuable distance w/o getting shot by tank fire. It takes away the advantage of siege range, and also allows for HTs to get close enough to psi storm w/o getting hit by tanks either.

This may be b/c I'm not one of the APM-gifted, but I also hate having to repeatedly scan and find new comsats to scan over and over. It's another thing you have to micro in the midst of all the crap you usually have to do while playing a TvP.

Oh and if they manage to lower your troop count to the point where they can hold off your main army with only part of their's, recall will definitely whoop your ass.

BigBalls

United States5354 Posts

November 04 2004 09:11 GMT

#17

you play terran?

NeverTheEndlessWiz

Singapore827 Posts

November 04 2004 11:07 GMT

#18

On November 04 2004 15:56 Arbiter[frolix] wrote:
Arbiters rule.

no
till FA replies and posts to this thread i'm not gonna agree =P
imo more ppl will say HT is better coz the power of storm brings better benefits than arbiters plus you need templar archives anyway to get arbiters
(tell me if i'm wrong coz i don't play toss and don't know the tech tree)