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Tal
United Kingdom1014 Posts
If someone could take the time to give me the basics of effective arbiter use, it would be appreciated, as I quite like the idea of a different style of play vs terran. On a completely unrelated topic (except it's BW), does anyone have any good strategy guides (e.g links to huatamaki style pages) for learning zerg vs protoss? I hate pvp a lot, but am struggling to get good as zerg. | ||
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Capulet
Canada686 Posts
The only time that I've ever needed/used them was in a PvZ stalemate game. I had half the map and he had 1/3 of the map. I was maxed, he was maxed and he also had like 100000 sunks. I recalled some of my army into his main base and he retreated all his men to save it (dumbass). Then I placed 3 zeals at the ramp, statis field it and then I placed 2 dts behind my frozen zeals (You'd be surprised about how many zerg users who don't keep a lord at their ramp). With his entire army trapped in his base, I was free to destroy the everything else. | ||
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ieatkids5
United States4628 Posts
Stasising clusters of tanks can really help break a push Recalling into their main base where all the factories all can also screw a terran up because they will have to build their 15 factories back with machine shops. It will cost them an immense amount of time and resources. | ||
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on.sp33d
134 Posts
Now for the answering. Against Terran, play as either you usually do, or use the best method that'll work for you. Once you get at least three expansions, two containing gas, it should be safe and stable to work up the tech tree and begin making Arbitars. Just be sure to watch out for the turrent/metal pushes and the goliaths lying around... it can be difficult to sneak up against a Terran, although stasis can always be fun. | ||
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Refrain[FriZ]
Canada4337 Posts
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rpf289
United States3524 Posts
other than PvT i dont think ive seen a pro use an arb.. =\ | ||
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fEAthEr
Canada482 Posts
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pheered.user
United States2603 Posts
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Arbiter[frolix]
United Kingdom2674 Posts
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SpuniasauR
Australia1500 Posts
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UNiMEDiA
United States25 Posts
8 temps with 200 energy each should be used in this way. Take two of the templars, use them both to hallucinate zeals. this will give you 8 hallucinated Zeals. Morph those two templars. With the remaining 6 temps, ( or however many u have) target the morping archone for hallucination. This will give you 24 Hallucinated archons. Morph the rest of your temps into archons. Its best to use the hallucinated units on move command, and run them straight through the push u r trying to break. In this way, not only will your hallucinated zeals pick up some of the spider mines, those 24 archons will force the tanks to shoot among themselves, leaving your real army to hit the front without any losses before they actually start plugging away at the tanks. Ive had great success with this strat in breaking through a heavily entrenched terran in the middle. Of course, this is not a strat to head for when playing pvt. But, if you find that you are at a stalemate in the center of land maps, and you have plenty of gas, This strat almost always ensures a breakthrough. Of course, if ur building this many temps, im assuming that you cannnot break his siege, and you have been maxed before. This is a late game way to break a dominated center by terran, DONT "go" for this. | ||
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OhThatDang
United States4685 Posts
On November 04 2004 16:23 UNiMEDiA wrote: I think that using hallucination is better than arbiters. I agree that arbiters can be useful, however the tech tree, and build time to get to them makes them less useful then 8 Temps with hallucinate. 8 temps with 200 energy each should be used in this way. Take two of the templars, use them both to hallucinate zeals. this will give you 8 hallucinated Zeals. Morph those two templars. With the remaining 6 temps, ( or however many u have) target the morping archone for hallucination. This will give you 24 Hallucinated archons. Morph the rest of your temps into archons. Its best to use the hallucinated units on move command, and run them straight through the push u r trying to break. In this way, not only will your hallucinated zeals pick up some of the spider mines, those 24 archons will force the tanks to shoot among themselves, leaving your real army to hit the front without any losses before they actually start plugging away at the tanks. Ive had great success with this strat in breaking through a heavily entrenched terran in the middle. Of course, this is not a strat to head for when playing pvt. But, if you find that you are at a stalemate in the center of land maps, and you have plenty of gas, This strat almost always ensures a breakthrough. Of course, if ur building this many temps, im assuming that you cannnot break his siege, and you have been maxed before. This is a late game way to break a dominated center by terran, DONT "go" for this. but...POD master sir he wants to know when to use arbs and how to use them effectively anyways i use them mid game sometimes :p just to torture them a bit so they cant keep pushing and pushing they will tend to stay back and wait for another recall  | ||
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UNiMEDiA
United States25 Posts
Arbiters are useful, i just find strats involving them fragile. | ||
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BigBalls
United States5354 Posts
in pvz: stasising ultra rules. check this rep of me v midian: http://www.teamliquid.net/replay/download.php?replay=533 However, i believe arbs are ESSENTIAL in pvp, and a great option in pvt. In pvp: stasis is ABSOLUTELY AMAZING. I have about 3-4 reps against rek where arbiters basically make the difference in the game. I'll be glad to share those if you like. Otherwise, check out this rep of a game i just played: http://www.wgtour.com/info.php?datab=broodwar&id=21658 check out the game against terranssabu where i win on bifrost. Against t: Stasis is great, recall is great. Basically against fast pushers, use stasis, against turtle, slow pushers, use recall. I often use both. Carriers are just as good, but i just prefer arbs. Ill explain more later, but I'm buzzing hardcore off dip right now and im incoherent, lol. | ||
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Capulet
Canada686 Posts
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XaI)CyRiC
United States4471 Posts
This may be b/c I'm not one of the APM-gifted, but I also hate having to repeatedly scan and find new comsats to scan over and over. It's another thing you have to micro in the midst of all the crap you usually have to do while playing a TvP. Oh and if they manage to lower your troop count to the point where they can hold off your main army with only part of their's, recall will definitely whoop your ass. | ||
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BigBalls
United States5354 Posts
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NeverTheEndlessWiz
Singapore827 Posts
On November 04 2004 15:56 Arbiter[frolix] wrote: Arbiters rule. no till FA replies and posts to this thread i'm not gonna agree =P imo more ppl will say HT is better coz the power of storm brings better benefits than arbiters plus you need templar archives anyway to get arbiters (tell me if i'm wrong coz i don't play toss and don't know the tech tree) | ||
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IA-Taiyoushin
United States33 Posts
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mrmin123
Korea (South)2971 Posts
), and just, well, fuck around. | ||
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on.sp33d
134 Posts
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UNiMEDiA
United States25 Posts
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ahk-gosu
Korea (South)2099 Posts
arbs work fucken wonders with reavers. ive almost never excluded reavers from a recall. find an open spot in a terran base but it doesnt really matter cause turrets dont really do shit to arbs. huge life and shield. make sure you make them ahead of time. i think they are the slowest units to create in the entire game. i think stasis is only good if you have max energy with energy upgrade and you have 100 energy after you used up 150 for recall. you can even recall your units on top of seiged tanks. this is like a huge zeal bomb drop. works wonders. stasis works on air units nicely but not so much on ground. i manage to catch only like 3 or 4 tanks in the stasis. but if they have carriers or bcs or mutas or devourers, atleast 10 of them get trapped. | ||
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MaTRiX[SiN]
Sweden1282 Posts
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Liquid`Jinro
Sweden33719 Posts
On November 04 2004 16:32 UNiMEDiA wrote: Right, Im saying, temps are a better alt to arbiters. IM assuming, and correct me if im wrong, cuz i know many ppl who like to go mass arbs on bgh cuz its fun (esspecially with mass vessel); anyways... im assuming he wants to win the game, not just build arbiters for the sake of it. So, my argument is, temps provide a more practical, and more decisive alternative. Arbiters are useful, i just find strats involving them fragile. Arbiters are more effective than pretty much anything when playing vs a tornado style player. | ||
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Liquid`Jinro
Sweden33719 Posts
On November 04 2004 22:27 ahk-gosu wrote: arbs work nicely with carriers. arbs work fucken wonders with reavers. ive almost never excluded reavers from a recall. find an open spot in a terran base but it doesnt really matter cause turrets dont really do shit to arbs. huge life and shield. make sure you make them ahead of time. i think they are the slowest units to create in the entire game. i think stasis is only good if you have max energy with energy upgrade and you have 100 energy after you used up 150 for recall. you can even recall your units on top of seiged tanks. this is like a huge zeal bomb drop. works wonders. stasis works on air units nicely but not so much on ground. i manage to catch only like 3 or 4 tanks in the stasis. but if they have carriers or bcs or mutas or devourers, atleast 10 of them get trapped. Wrong. Stasis fucking rapes tornado. Recall is good vs slow push. Recalling units over tanks might also mean they all die before they get a shot off (mines, other tanks). | ||
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TS-Rupbar
Sweden1089 Posts
Stove is teh pwn, btw | ||
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koehli
Germany350 Posts
On November 05 2004 05:12 FrozenArbiter wrote: Arbiters are more effective than pretty much anything when playing vs a tornado style player. FA is right, Unimedia wrong. Hallucinations in my experience are only good to drop heavily turreted islands or to fake a large carrier army. Other than that I doubt that hallucinating morphing archons will help you all that much, as it tends to produce immovable objects ;-) Also coordinating a ground army push break is hard enough without all those clumsy archon hallus coming in your way. As Protoss your goal is to flank in an area with as little encumbrance as possible. While hallus do soak damage, they tend to thin out your active fighting force and desynchronize your army, which sucks -.- In general: Arbiters > storm >>>>>>>> hallucination in pvt | ||
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Liquid`Jinro
Sweden33719 Posts
Hallu zealots that is ;O Not hallu archon (they take double damage, they dont clear mines and they are slower than zealots. Unsure if hallu zealots get any damage modifiers from size ;o | ||
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LastWish
2013 Posts
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Pob
880 Posts
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Tal
United Kingdom1014 Posts
Bigballs, would it be possible for you to link me to a game you play vs terran (preferably on temple or something close to it), which you would consider to be a ''typical'' arbiter based build. This would help me a lot, as I think I really need to get the feel of when to go arbiters; I'm pretty damn sure it's a very different time to when you go carriers.On the subject of hallucinating stuff, I have had success in breaking contains with hallucinated zeals, but it seems much less effective once the game goes on a bit, and so I don't think it's a viable strat to aim for, but just a nice reaction to certain situations (like being contained). I'm going to download and watch those replays now. Cheers | ||
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BigBalls
United States5354 Posts
Here is a replay on temple that is mildly typical: http://www.teamliquid.net/replay/download.php?replay=530 I dont base my strategy off of arbiters. I use them when ground wont do better, i.e. stasis/recall is necessary cause his force is too big for all ground to work as effectively | ||
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IdrA
United States11541 Posts
On November 05 2004 05:58 koehli wrote: Other than that I doubt that hallucinating morphing archons will help you all that much, as it tends to produce immovable objects ;-) ? hallucinating morphing archons gets u 2 fully morphed archons. granted hallucinating archons isnt great idea.... but | ||
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VdP]EpiphaNy
United Kingdom992 Posts
On November 04 2004 14:11 Tal wrote: On a completely unrelated topic (except it's BW), does anyone have any good strategy guides (e.g links to huatamaki style pages) for learning zerg vs protoss? I hate pvp a lot, but am struggling to get good as zerg. satanik wrote a good one you should read, the original place it was posted is gone (www.gosuinsider.com i believe, whatever happened to that?) but fear not for google is your friend! http://www.entropyzero.org/Zerg.html enjoy | ||
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Br0KeN
United States118 Posts
On November 05 2004 10:00 HungZerg wrote: ? hallucinating morphing archons gets u 2 fully morphed archons. granted hallucinating archons isnt great idea.... but that can be quite scary sometimes, seeing 12+ archons  | ||
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Manit0u
Poland17238 Posts
 Btw. Hallu carriers are so gay and unfair in PvT, mass carriers are enough imba imo :D | ||
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ahk-gosu
Korea (South)2099 Posts
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ahk-gosu
Korea (South)2099 Posts
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XaI)CyRiC
United States4471 Posts
On November 04 2004 18:11 BigBalls wrote: you play terran? Random player. I just happen to have a friend I play against a lot who loves to go Arbiter in PvTs against me, although it's getting easier to deal with now that I can almost feel him going for them. | ||
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IdrA
United States11541 Posts
On November 05 2004 13:45 ahk-gosu wrote: actually i think that if you know the protoss is getting hallucination tech vs terran you should always get emp shockwave. it kills whole groups of hallucinations and irradiate works on templars nicely. also if you shockwave the real archons they get 10 health anyways. and killing all that shit load of shields on the carriers can keep them reeling. not worth the gas. emp is relatively slow, if he sees vessel moving up and knowns u intend to emp he can "dodge" it. it also has a fairly small area of effect, doesnt justify losing 2+ tanks for it. | ||
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[city] clan
France39 Posts
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Guybrush
Spain4744 Posts
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BigBalls
United States5354 Posts
the thing with carriers is you need superb timing with them, if you make them too early or too late you get fucked.. I choose to go arbiters because I can work them into my force without the timing aspect. Going carriers is an art, going arbiters is like adding a booster to your ground forces. | ||
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ahk-gosu
Korea (South)2099 Posts
and i only suggested that you get the scis if you know hes abusing those hallucinations. i think its worth a few tanks if hes using like 20 halluc zlots to take out all your mines and 1/3 of your tanks :/. yea that is odd tho. not many pro gamers use arbs. hmm interesting. the thing is that they cost a lot of gas not only for the arb but for the technology. it also builds really slow. if the terran counters the arbs nicely then the whole gas and tech is wasted. this is the same with ghosts and queens. if the other player knows how to counter it it screws your tech but if you use it correctly it can own. i guess they dont wanna take that risk. like nada going infantry and ghosts vs a metal terran lol or boxer with his 11 minute emp nextus nuke rush. or nal ra and his halluce arb on an island map. all very risky. | ||
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ChroNoCrosS
Sweden13 Posts
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IdrA
United States11541 Posts
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