For my 1500th post, I've decided to try to write a guide! I'm not much of a writer so I'll use images to do most of the talking.
Introduction
Are you tired of playing standard Zerg all the time? Tired of silly Zerg cheese that only consists of 4,5, or 6 pool? Well then you've come to the right place. I introduce to you Kau's Guide to (Mainly In Base) Proxy Hatching. You may wonder why or how I started proxy hatching. Well, it started something like this:
On sometime in the past Kau thought: I think the first thing that came to mind for me was something along the lines of: "everyone checks Destination for an in base Protoss or Terran proxy, but no one would ever check Zerg, how can I make this work?"
So I started by sending my 5th drone on Destination and found that that didn't get my drone in without passing their worker. So then I tried sending the first drone that brought back a mineral (because you need 7 trips of minerals to be able to get build your second drone, getting that one trip in with your drone gets your second drone out that much faster [trip with 4 drones, then a trip with 3 drones while your other one goes to enemy base]), which also didn't work reliably, so in the end I just end up sending one of the initial 4 without it mining anything.
In this guide I will discuss the ins and outs of proxy hatching through my experiences on ICCUP. I have refined the build (see above) through trial and error and have tested it against the likes D, D+, and C- players mostly from North America and Korea. So without further adieu, I present to you PROXY HATCHING!
The Build
4/9 Send one of your drones to scout or to their base if it's a two player map. 9/9 Overlord 12/17 Spawning Pool 11/17 Extractor 10/17 Proxy Hatchery
4/9 Send one of your drones to scout or to their base if it's a two player map.
12/17 Spawning Pool
11/17 Extractor
10/17 Proxy Hatchery
Notes:
Once the pool finishes build 6 lings and keep pumping lings.
When the extractor finishes, mine 100 gas for speed and then put the drones back on minerals.
When your proxy hatch finishes, I like to get two drones for sunkens then start producing lings.
Your second overlord should come around 15 or 16.
You can also fake a natural by sending your drone out. Lots of people tend to follow your drone out to deny, so just pretend like they're doing a good job and eventually give up. Added bonus if they pylon or engineering bay/supply your nat :p
Mind Games: I don't actually intend to expand!
Always look to do damage with your zerglings if possible. Usually the best opportunity comes when they notice your hatchery in their base (hopefully after a sunken or two have been placed) and send most or all of their choke defending units to destroy it. This leaves Terran walls and zealot walls and photon cannons particularly vulnerable to the mass of lings you have been producing.
Pulling zealots to kill hatch
Undefended cannons die real quick
Map Specifics
Two Player Maps
By far your best bet of this strategy working is playing on a two player map. Your drone knows which way to go and has the highest chance of getting into your opponent's base unnoticed. However, not all two player maps allows this to happen, so here's what to expect regarding some two player maps.
Heartbreak Ridge On HBR, you tend to not be able to get into their base even if you send one of your initial drones. The probe will come out to build that pylon at his nat before you can sneak in and terrans that wall will put a supply depot at the choke before you can go in unnoticed. So that leaves you with a couple of choices:
1. You can proxy on the cliff behind their nat.
This hatch placement is ling proof (and therefore zealot and probe proof)
2. You can proxy along the path that scouting peons don't use (that's the top path)
This really only works against Protoss
When you send your initial drone out on HBR and directly to their minerals, you can mine it out in time for your hatchery to go down as specified in the build order. Now if you chose choice 1, then this is the better way to get your hatchery there. For choice 2, this leaves a good way for your lings to get in.
Almost done...
Matchpoint Matchpoint is similar to HBR, you can't get past that walling terran or scouting probe.
Caught in the act
The difference lies in what choice you have for hatchery placement. The only place that really works is above the ramp but out of sight of their wall.
There's a forge-gateway wall above that battery
However, even though you cannot get in without passing a probe (or pylon or supply depot, etc), you can still choose to proxy hatch inside their base regardless. Just know that a lot of the time, your opponent isn't absolutely horrible and will clean it out ASAP.
Destination Destination is the second best map to proxy on. Your drone can usually get into the base before running into a probe or scv and you even have the choice of putting your hatchery behind their mineral line. I tend to favor putting the hatchery above/below (depending on start locations) their main base, just so you have a wider range of buildings to hit and your creep takes a little longer to show up on their screen.
Tons of options on where to put your hatch
Polaris Rhapsody Similar to Destination, except there's less room for the hatchery. You can try to get behind their natural, but that requires walking right past the Nexus/CC, so it doesn't work very well.
Blue Storm The best map to proxy on due to it's ridiculously short rush distance and large open area where you can hide your hatchery.
You can hit the gas from here
There's also another spot you can hide your hatchery here
Alternate location (if only it weren't scouted)
Three Player Maps
Your second best type of map to be proxy hatching on. You have a 50% chance of finding your opponent on the first try.
Outsider When scouting on Outsider, it is important to note that you can find your opponent without them knowing that you found them. To do this, you want to send your drone to just within vision of the minerals so that you can check if they have been mined or not.
Guess he's not here, still 1500 minerals.
Once you have found your opponent, the possiblities for building your hatchery are almost endless. It's up to you to decide how close to his buildings you want to place it.
Moonglaive You almost always have to let your opponent know you're in their base, as there's no trick like with Outsider (the minerals aren't placed as nicely). No real tips for this map, it's a really hard to get the proxy hatch to work since there is so little room and and high chance of being seen.
This drone walked past a pylon to be able to get there though
Four Player Maps You usually have to get pretty lucky to slip into someone's base unnoticed. If you do manage that though, chances are high that they don't look around their base for a proxy, because who expects a zerg to proxy hatch on a 4 player map.
Python For python, I like placing the hatchery close enough to the nat that a few sunkens can hit buildings down there.
Colosseum If you can't sneak in, then this is the next best place:
All credit goes to Yellow for that hatchery placement
Fighting Spirit Even if they see you enter their base, you can always hide your drone and hope that that works.
Can you find the drone?
If you don't want to risk it, then you could proxy hatch outside their base.
Works great for ZvZ
Do's and Don'ts
Don't take their natural Whatever you do, don't take your opponents nat, especially if they're Terran, because they can just do this.
Taking your opponents natural is usually a bad idea
Don't take your natural While you're playing mind games with your opponent, it is best to continue those mind games by taking a base that is not your nat. This helps make your opponent think you're a horrible player. So take third bases like the ones in these minimaps:
Don't give up Even if your proxy hatch dies
And your ling bust fails
You can still win in the end.
Do pretend you're leaving
Not once...
But twice! (see timestamp)
Then proxy
Pictures worth a Thousand Words
For your perusal. Just some gems I got from playing this build.
This is an excellent guide when I started reading it I was a newby d- zerg but now 3 days after following this guide I've become a solid B zerg! Thanks Kau!
Just tried it out. 2 out of 3 vT success not bad! Seems to be the ultimate wraith counter build since both times I did it the opponent was going wraith. 3rd guy was from US so he probably read it here, or just smart?... naaahh.
sick guide, I have been using a variation on this build quite a bit in ZvP on match point. Truth be told (and no this is not a troll) I had about an 80% winrate with it vs C-, C, and even a B-/B player
the variation I used gave way to more transitions, more mind games and a slightly better economy. I sent my drone at 9, went overpool speed, and used the lings to defend the constructing sunkens (outside his natural). Once they were up I tried to go for the forge asap, while making pure ling at my proxy (and a few drones to get enough sunkens up to hold the contain), and droning at my main, going for lair tech. At about 18 lings i try to runby, and best case scenario he has no forge and no cannons protecting his main mineral line. Worst case, it messes with their head a bit more. Afterwards, I transition to 2 or 3 hat muta, where they will almost certainly be missing a forge at this point and their main/natural mineral lines won't be well protected.
Standard protoss counters to this include mass cannons (5 or 6 even isn't really overkill, since toss is actually up a base vs you), fast reaver to clean up the sunkens, or fast sair/dt which just looks silly once i make all my overlords at my proxy and morph a single spore there.
If anyone wants I can talk more about my build, or post reps if there is interest =D
lol awesome guide, and congrats on 1500! I'll surely add this to my offracing playbook.
(I love that "why drone here" picture series, I remember it from when you first posted it in the "post your funny/mass/owned" thread.)
On August 28 2010 00:20 ShinyGerbil wrote: sick guide, I have been using a variation on this build quite a bit in ZvP on match point. Truth be told (and no this is not a troll) I had about an 80% winrate with it vs C-, C, and even a B-/B player
the variation I used gave way to more transitions, more mind games and a slightly better economy. I sent my drone at 9, went overpool speed, and used the lings to defend the constructing sunkens (outside his natural). Once they were up I tried to go for the forge asap, while making pure ling at my proxy (and a few drones to get enough sunkens up to hold the contain), and droning at my main, going for lair tech. At about 18 lings i try to runby, and best case scenario he has no forge and no cannons protecting his main mineral line. Worst case, it messes with their head a bit more. Afterwards, I transition to 2 or 3 hat muta, where they will almost certainly be missing a forge at this point and their main/natural mineral lines won't be well protected.
Standard protoss counters to this include mass cannons (5 or 6 even isn't really overkill, since toss is actually up a base vs you), fast reaver to clean up the sunkens, or fast sair/dt which just looks silly once i make all my overlords at my proxy and morph a single spore there.
If anyone wants I can talk more about my build, or post reps if there is interest =D
This reminds me, do you guys remember when great proxy hatched Bisu on Medusa, then proxy hatch PvZ was like standard for two weeks on iccup? I had some great games out of it on Destination and the old Medusa.
On August 28 2010 00:20 ShinyGerbil wrote: sick guide, I have been using a variation on this build quite a bit in ZvP on match point. Truth be told (and no this is not a troll) I had about an 80% winrate with it vs C-, C, and even a B-/B player
the variation I used gave way to more transitions, more mind games and a slightly better economy. I sent my drone at 9, went overpool speed, and used the lings to defend the constructing sunkens (outside his natural). Once they were up I tried to go for the forge asap, while making pure ling at my proxy (and a few drones to get enough sunkens up to hold the contain), and droning at my main, going for lair tech. At about 18 lings i try to runby, and best case scenario he has no forge and no cannons protecting his main mineral line. Worst case, it messes with their head a bit more. Afterwards, I transition to 2 or 3 hat muta, where they will almost certainly be missing a forge at this point and their main/natural mineral lines won't be well protected.
Standard protoss counters to this include mass cannons (5 or 6 even isn't really overkill, since toss is actually up a base vs you), fast reaver to clean up the sunkens, or fast sair/dt which just looks silly once i make all my overlords at my proxy and morph a single spore there.
If anyone wants I can talk more about my build, or post reps if there is interest =D
Hehe definitely post reps! No better place than a proxy hatch guide for that :p
Just a few questions: I suppose you would just abort the plan if they went 2 gate? Is there a window where your proxy hatch just finished and they have more than enough zealots to take on the 6(?) lings you made from the overpool before pumping drones? Isn't sair/dt going to kill your main?
On August 28 2010 00:20 ShinyGerbil wrote: sick guide, I have been using a variation on this build quite a bit in ZvP on match point. Truth be told (and no this is not a troll) I had about an 80% winrate with it vs C-, C, and even a B-/B player
the variation I used gave way to more transitions, more mind games and a slightly better economy. I sent my drone at 9, went overpool speed, and used the lings to defend the constructing sunkens (outside his natural). Once they were up I tried to go for the forge asap, while making pure ling at my proxy (and a few drones to get enough sunkens up to hold the contain), and droning at my main, going for lair tech. At about 18 lings i try to runby, and best case scenario he has no forge and no cannons protecting his main mineral line. Worst case, it messes with their head a bit more. Afterwards, I transition to 2 or 3 hat muta, where they will almost certainly be missing a forge at this point and their main/natural mineral lines won't be well protected.
Standard protoss counters to this include mass cannons (5 or 6 even isn't really overkill, since toss is actually up a base vs you), fast reaver to clean up the sunkens, or fast sair/dt which just looks silly once i make all my overlords at my proxy and morph a single spore there.
If anyone wants I can talk more about my build, or post reps if there is interest =D
Hehe definitely post reps! No better place than a proxy hatch guide for that :p
Just a few questions: I suppose you would just abort the plan if they went 2 gate? Is there a window where your proxy hatch just finished and they have more than enough zealots to take on the 6(?) lings you made from the overpool before pumping drones? Isn't sair/dt going to kill your main?
i'll post when i get home from work, for sure =)
if they go 2 gate, my build at that point will have only been overpool speed with a 9 scout, totally reasonable (especially on match point with the reasonably long rush distance) for playing standard
in my experience the zealot timing hasn't even really been close, my hatchery gets scouted in about 50% of the games before the sunkens are up and they really can't do much about it. 3 zealots vs 10 lings to delay for 2 sunkens morphing, easy stuff.
and uhh... when i ling runby if their mineral lines are protected, i go for their gasses next. hopefully i can get muta/scourge to at least keep their sairs at bay until they have a critical mass. and my sunkens + 1 spore makes a full contain! dt's can't get out unless they use a shuttle somehow. also vs an obvious sair+dt attempt i can usually transition to a hydra bust and apply even more pressure, if not win the game outright.
the most logical thing to do for protoss is double stargate corsair into reaver. since you said mass canon was a logical counter (which it is) your ling runby should do nothing since you can complete a full wall with one zealot. from there, my eco is about 4 times yours. i have 2 stargates to defend the mutas and i can use the shuttle to take either the middle expansion (at the top or bottom depending on spawn locations). even if you transition into a hydra bust your sunkens would be close enough to my wall-in to damage the arc on your hydra bust. also, losing a forge, not a big deal lol. 1 sunken already cost more than a forge, i can jut rebuild that. from there i could make you look silly with 4 stargate carrier lol.
also thank you for writing this guide. many free wins even in the blue ranks thanks to this =)
I love the pictures and the in game comments were gold
"Why drone here?" lol.
Great post; I've always loved proxy hatch; my protoss buddy has cheesed me so many different and annoying ways, I always get pissed, but I bide my time and proxy hatch him and it's soooooooo worth it.
EPT
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