EPT[I] ZvT - 2 base ultra with ensnare - Page 2
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FlameSworD
United States414 Posts
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lt.dunbar
United States29 Posts
My thoughts on the build: Having tried similar builds in the past i would suggest getting broodling earlier to deal with a faster push from the Terran. You don't have anything to prevent them from sieging you with there first tank, but broodling can help stall until ultras come out. To the people who think its too gas intensive- while 2-base ultra is in no way sustainable you can get out a surprisingly large amount of ultralisks at first. Remember, your saving gas basically the whole game and only spending it on tech and a couple of queens. As many people have pointed out, if your opponent has complete scouting information and reacts perfectly then your build probably won't work. But that's true with any non-standard build | ||
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DarkMatter_
Canada1774 Posts
On July 16 2010 16:05 Hautamaki wrote: What if terran makes a wraith or a valk and starts raping overlords? I probably should've specified, but I only used this build against a 1 rax+FE bionic Terran. If the terran decides to transition into some kind of mech play, I would abandon the strategy and play standard. | ||
swanized
Canada2480 Posts
On July 17 2010 00:53 Servius_Fulvius wrote: Don't listen to all these people telling you not to try this build. Starcraft is a game and your goal is to have fun. You seem to be enjoying yourself with this build, so work on optimizing it to find where good terrans poke holes in your play. Eventually you're going to find that it won't stand a chance against terrans at a certain level. It's not considered a "standard" build because because there are obvious economic weaknesses that foreigners up to korean pros will exploit. That doesn't mean the strategy isn't fun to pull out every once and a while. Players get so caught up in practicing the standards that their reaction to anything nonstandard dulls (or they never knew what to do in the first place). I think this would be funny to play against D+/C- koreans since they're such mechanically-focused players that I doubt many of them would have a decent reaction in a best of 1. As with all cute strategies, I doubt this would work if you tried it again on the same player. Still, as long as you're having fun, mixing in some homemade nonstandard play could be a great strategical plan, especially if you're facing the same opponent multiple times. Don't count on beating any professionals (or anyone C or higher for that matter), but please, do enjoy yourself. this man speaks the truth... I need to re-state that doing crazy zerg is probably better then this build is but if you are having fun, go for it :D | ||
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saltywet
Hong Kong1316 Posts
On July 16 2010 13:58 Trran-1 wrote: Well, I had played a couple of games where the zerg do this, and I just camp for a while in their front may be with the 1 or to first tanks, just to make the angry and add more sunks, then while I'm doing this, I just add like 4 rax more from my usual 3 and instead of getting starport fast I just get 2 fact and mass tanks, so when he clear the front, those units just make the ultras low in hp and I just come with my 2 push and crush him with mass tanks, aroud 8 plus the 3 or 4 controls of rines, this is just from 2 basse trran. I'm C- if it matters. But your build it actually work on d levels. Dunno if mine work, but for me it does. i played a guy called trran-1 on iccup earlier, dunno if it's you or not what you did to me was 2 port wraith but anyways, i love doing 2 base ultras, and to be honest, i dont need mutas or lurkers in midgame. 3-4 control groups of lings and 3 sunks is enough to delay an m&m ball /firebats until ultra upgrade finishes and pops out On July 17 2010 01:05 FlameSworD wrote: 4 ultras wont do shitt sry dude add to that 24 cracklings (and 4-1 upgrades when terran only has 1-1), yes 4 ultras will rape | ||
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DarkSaieden
South Africa254 Posts
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DarkSaieden
South Africa254 Posts
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shinjin
United States398 Posts
i dont see how its even working at D+ level, even a D player scans zerg main? o_0 | ||
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darktreb
United States3016 Posts
On July 17 2010 05:15 saltywet wrote: i played a guy called trran-1 on iccup earlier, dunno if it's you or not what you did to me was 2 port wraith but anyways, i love doing 2 base ultras, and to be honest, i dont need mutas or lurkers in midgame. 3-4 control groups of lings and 3 sunks is enough to delay an m&m ball /firebats until ultra upgrade finishes and pops out add to that 24 cracklings (and 4-1 upgrades when terran only has 1-1), yes 4 ultras will rape I'm C- Terran at best and I find it hiiiiiiiiighly unlikely that any halfway competent Terran would ever lose to this. 48 lings and 3 sunkens is definitely not enough to counter a well-microed MnM ball and if I notice you don't have Hydra Den OR Spire when going Hive I'll check every base on the map and then either all-in 7 barracks build a ton of Medics and Firebats to go with a big ball of Marines, or just get a DROPSHIP (which is something a lot of Terrans will do against no-Spire builds). Even if I scouted it too late to do that if I saw someone going two base Ultra I know it's basically all-in at that point and I'd even be willing to sacrifice my natural worst case to get out enough Tanks or Mines. And again, just need a Dropship to do massive damage. | ||
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Severedevil
United States4839 Posts
I contest the implication that rushing to hive is indefensible without muta or lurkers. The hive units are available very quickly when you skip over Lair. (I had defilers with consume and plague at nine minutes, using a 3 hatch lair build. 2 hatch lair could probably have ultralisks w/upgrade (both if you get two caverns) at nine minutes.) Also, with a ton of speedlings running around (especially if he can afford +1 carapace) it's possible to threaten lots of backstabs and cut off reinforcements to delay a push. | ||
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serenidite
Korea (South)505 Posts
you're going to defend against a mnm terran with cracklings and SUNKS? im sorry but this just isnt going to work. If i saw NO SPIRE/ NO DEN, i'd just pump bats, range/stim , +2/+1 and break your sunk line. im sorry but this is retarted. | ||
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Severedevil
United States4839 Posts
On July 17 2010 10:13 serenidite wrote: im so sorry. but you're going to go to 3 hatch HIVE without any lurkers or mutals? you're going to defend against a mnm terran with cracklings and SUNKS? im sorry but this just isnt going to work. If i saw NO SPIRE/ NO DEN, i'd just pump bats, range/stim , +2/+1 and break your sunk line. im sorry but this is retarted. +2 attack will not complete before ultralisks are in the field. The point of RUSHING to Hive is that you reach Hive quickly. | ||
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serenidite
Korea (South)505 Posts
On July 17 2010 10:17 Severedevil wrote: +2 attack will not complete before ultralisks are in the field. The point of RUSHING to Hive is that you reach Hive quickly. rushing hive. okay so lets see. Terran scans will come in around lair timing am i right? assuming that the Terran has 1 rax expanded he has 2 rax 1 fact stim range upgraded with +1 attack upgrading if i scan and i see NO den NO spire and a fuckton of lings, im shitting my pants with happiness no lurkers? no mutals just pure speedlings and sunks. no matter how fast you tech up when those scans are spread , any competant T will run you over | ||
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dennisvreyes
175 Posts
he fails to scout and instead turtles waiting for his mass tanks, as lower level players tend to do. all he'll have by ur "time push" will be sim city with bunkers and a few tanks here and there. plus, accounting bad macro and micro, will be left scrambled against ultralings. may not work with D+ terran because a solid D+ Terran will have a iron wall of tanks and mass mm ball camping outside ur nat waiting for initial push. ur initial (semi all in) push will come at about 10, by then any sensible terran will already have made the 9push will never work with C and upper players because thats 10 mins of non activity. terrans at this level will have done 3 or so presses, each wave stronger than the former, by the time u got settled with ur ultraling ensnare build (not to mention that u pretty much hav 0 idea what hes doing). PLUS, for sure he will have already scouted ur base via wraith or comsat, and assuming that u'll be tech rushing, u'll be pretty much saving ur minerals and gas (limited as it is off 2 bases) for tech: lair, hive, SP boost, SP adrenal, Evo +1+1 (id assume u'll be getting this for buff at least, nest, ensnare, cavern, UC plate and anabolic), at most u'll have 5-7 creeps (u choose how u distribute as sunk or spore). way before all this, 2 groups of stim +1 mnm will have rolled ur nat and main. just so i could see how it works, i tried it at iccup with DD+ players, faithful to the BO, skipping/adding some upgrades here and there depending on the situation (skip mostly anabolic, add brrodlings). i got 8 wins of 15 games. the weakness of the BO is when the defense is scouted or when the T start to camp outside nat. by then i was pretty invested to ultralingqueen to switch tech. although, during the win games, it was a blast to see ensnared mnm ball scramble to ultralings and sniping tanks with broodlings  tahtah | ||
Ver
United States2186 Posts
Just go crazy Zerg and get ensnare. Ensnare with Crazy Zerg is one of those things that Zergs should do and don't; it might make the strategy more viable at top level and is certainly very potent for non-pros. Whether its fun or not has nothing to do with its viability as a strategy. Fun=do whatever you find is fun who cares if its viable past c-. But strategies need to be viable to be useful. | ||
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Oystein
Norway1602 Posts
On July 16 2010 12:12 DarkMatter_ wrote: How would a skilled Terran player react to this build? Does this strategy have any merit at all at higher levels? Why or why not? BTW, I know 2 base ultra builds already exist, but I couldn't find anything in Liquipedia so I don't really have anything to compare with. Also, if there have been any pro games with a similar strategy, please post them. I have used 3hatch ultra rushes on fairly high levels (high C and low B ranks) and won with it (tho I never use a queen, just straight for as many armor upgraded ultras as I can squeeze out while double expanding), but usually any good Terran beats this pretty easy. If they realize what you are doing they just either mass up lots of raxes for mass MnM and try to break your nat, or the more common approach (vs any fast hive builds) vults with mines from 1 fac while they go for quick 2 port vessels and just deny you from getting a 3rd gas up. | ||
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saltywet
Hong Kong1316 Posts
On July 17 2010 10:13 serenidite wrote: im so sorry. but you're going to go to 3 hatch HIVE without any lurkers or mutals? you're going to defend against a mnm terran with cracklings and SUNKS? im sorry but this just isnt going to work. If i saw NO SPIRE/ NO DEN, i'd just pump bats, range/stim , +2/+1 and break your sunk line. im sorry but this is retarted. and if the zerg has actually hidden a spire and den very well? im not just gonna show you 3-4 control groups of zerglings, only going to show you 6. would a "competent" terran make more than 2-3 firebats, which also dies easily? and you wont have +2/+1 before I get 2/2 and crackling upgrades, unless you made your ebay and start upgrade right after rax going pure zerglings to defend allows me so much gas for ultras later | ||
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serenidite
Korea (South)505 Posts
On July 17 2010 12:01 saltywet wrote: and if the zerg has actually hidden a spire and den very well? im not just gonna show you 3-4 control groups of zerglings, only going to show you 6. would a "competent" terran make more than 2-3 firebats, which also dies easily? and you wont have +2/+1 before I get 2/2 and crackling upgrades, unless you made your ebay and start upgrade right after rax going pure zerglings to defend allows me so much gas for ultras later okay. so you have 2 bases, 2 gas. i can see EVERYTHING with 2 scans. where are you gonna hide that den/spire? even if you ling backstab mnm eat up lings. and 2 gas ultra is.. "not enough gas ultras". you'll have to push the mnm force back for you to double expand and get that gas needed | ||
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Severedevil
United States4839 Posts
That made me smile. | ||
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