EPTIt's MOTW and is a Really weird map. I'm not sure what would be a proper BO for it. Let's hear what ya got!
Recommended BO's for Each Map - Page 5
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Diamond
United States10796 Posts
It's MOTW and is a Really weird map. I'm not sure what would be a proper BO for it. Let's hear what ya got! | ||
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Saracen
United States5139 Posts
For example, an important factors in ZvP is the accessibility of 3rd gas: If you aren't able to take a gas expo with your 3rd-5th hatch, you're not going to be able to support hydra/muta (or hydra/lurker) production. So while you can effectively do hydra builds on maps like Destination or Heartbreak Ridge, you have to do something like lurkerling, muta->lurkerling, or mass hydra on maps like Blue Storm or Longinus. Basically, the 3rd gas gives you many more options as a Zerg player. | ||
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Diamond
United States10796 Posts
On November 12 2009 06:41 Saracen wrote: I think it's kind of pointless to try to give recommended BOs for each map without understanding WHY each BO is favored. For example, an important factors in ZvP is the accessibility of 3rd gas: If you aren't able to take a gas expo with your 3rd-5th hatch, you're not going to be able to support hydra/muta (or hydra/lurker) production. So while you can effectively do hydra builds on maps like Destination or Heartbreak Ridge, you have to do something like lurkerling, muta->lurkerling, or mass hydra on maps like Blue Storm or Longinus. Basically, the 3rd gas gives you many more options as a Zerg player. Did you even read the OP? We are doing this already.... Read for example | ||
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Saracen
United States5139 Posts
On November 12 2009 09:22 Diamondback2 wrote: Did you even read the OP? We are doing this already.... Read for example No, I'm talking about things that are more general. Like features that can be applied to a variety of maps, as opposed to specific features of specific maps. The reason I'm against all this specificity is that, at the level you and most of the audience you are making this for are at, you should be focusing on as small a range of build orders as possible. Which means, find a BO that generally works, and then switch it up on maps where it doesn't work - NOT find a super-awesome BO for each map there is and learn all fifty of them. Why? Because you need to have a strong sense of both your timing and your opponent's timing relative to what you're doing, which will get incredibly fucked up if you keep switching around builds. So sure, 10/15 gate may be stronger than usual on some maps, but you'll do so much better if you just stick to a few builds. | ||
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Diamond
United States10796 Posts
On November 12 2009 09:55 Saracen wrote: No, I'm talking about things that are more general. Like features that can be applied to a variety of maps, as opposed to specific features of specific maps. The reason I'm against all this specificity is that, at the level you and most of the audience you are making this for are at, you should be focusing on as small a range of build orders as possible. Which means, find a BO that generally works, and then switch it up on maps where it doesn't work - NOT find a super-awesome BO for each map there is and learn all fifty of them. Why? Because you need to have a strong sense of both your timing and your opponent's timing relative to what you're doing, which will get incredibly fucked up if you keep switching around builds. So sure, 10/15 gate may be stronger than usual on some maps, but you'll do so much better if you just stick to a few builds. Ok I've said this before I will say it again: I dont care if you think knowing BO's based on the maps is useful or not. I really don't. This thread is for the people that want to know this info. Personally I have no problem learning 50 BO's. And you cannot just adapt them to the map. Show me how to 10/15 on Destination (and not be way behind), and I will show you the value of the imaginary number G. If you don't think it will help, fine, just don't post in this thread. Both Artosis and Day(9) think this is a wonderful idea, and are both on board. Apparently they think it's cool and being they are like pro's I believe them. This is not a discussion on the viability of BO's as a whole, it is just simply what BO's are strong on what maps. Man I never thought a site like TL would be fighting me this much when I AM TRYING TO HELP.... it's demoralizing really... | ||
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Oystein
Norway1602 Posts
Andromeda: 12Nex: Probably the best build for this map, both because of the long distances, the high ground advantage you can get from taking the min only. (Taking the gas expo is also possible, but a bit more risky) and Terrans trend of doing Siege expand here. Notice that pylons should be placed around you main to get early reaction to drops, witch is another common TvP opener here. DT\Reaver drop : Both viable due to the large mains that T have to defend. + You get a free high ground expo while doing this. Byzantium. 10\15Gate: Extremely strong on this map due to the revert ramps. Not as strong crossmap, but still works OK. 12Nex: Again 12nex is probably one of the best builds on the map due to the fact that 10\15gate is so strong here Ts options are limited, add in long distances and fairly easy natural chokes to defend and you got a great opener. 2gate Obs: Good build due to the fact that most Terrans will open some sort of FD on this map or 2fac and rarely Siege expand. Longinus 10\15Gate once again very strong due to the flat nature of the main\naturals. 12Nex: Once again very strong due to the fact that most Terrans will fear 10\15 and are most likely going to 1Fac FE with a wall anyway. Defending vs 2fac can be a bit tricky on this map tho. 1Gate expo: With quick pressure with your first units against his wall or if you scout him not wall it can easily be turned into a 2gate OBs build which is strong against both FD and 2fac. Tho the 2 other builds are stronger on this map imo, this is more just your safe alternative. Blue Storm. Several 1gate builds are good here. 1gate reavers or obs are both viable or just 1gate 3goon expo. Note that this is probably one of the most important maps to get a fairly early Robo on, both to determine what the T is doing, but also to defend your natural from any early pressure with tanks firing at your natural from behind the wall. 12Nexus: A bit risky on this map, since you are likely to get scouted early and the scv\marine rush distance aint to long. On the upside however you wont have to worry about factory units getting to your natural anytime soon and many Ts will delay themselves with scouting for proxies, so opening up 2gate with quick 2 zeals greatly increase your chance of defending vs marine\scv rush. 2Base carrier: 2base carriers are in general a really good build on this map due to the layout of the map. | ||
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Diamond
United States10796 Posts
On November 12 2009 12:27 Oystein wrote: + Show Spoiler + PvT Andromeda: 12Nex: Probably the best build for this map, both because of the long distances, the high ground advantage you can get from taking the min only. (Taking the gas expo is also possible, but a bit more risky) and Terrans trend of doing Siege expand here. Notice that pylons should be placed around you main to get early reaction to drops, witch is another common TvP opener here. DT\Reaver drop : Both viable due to the large mains that T have to defend. + You get a free high ground expo while doing this. Byzantium. 10\15Gate: Extremely strong on this map due to the revert ramps. Not as strong crossmap, but still works OK. 12Nex: Again 12nex is probably one of the best builds on the map due to the fact that 10\15gate is so strong here Ts options are limited, add in long distances and fairly easy natural chokes to defend and you got a great opener. 2gate Obs: Good build due to the fact that most Terrans will open some sort of FD on this map or 2fac and rarely Siege expand. Longinus 10\15Gate once again very strong due to the flat nature of the main\naturals. 12Nex: Once again very strong due to the fact that most Terrans will fear 10\15 and are most likely going to 1Fac FE with a wall anyway. Defending vs 2fac can be a bit tricky on this map tho. 1Gate expo: With quick pressure with your first units against his wall or if you scout him not wall it can easily be turned into a 2gate OBs build which is strong against both FD and 2fac. Tho the 2 other builds are stronger on this map imo, this is more just your safe alternative. Blue Storm. Several 1gate builds are good here. 1gate reavers or obs are both viable or just 1gate 3goon expo. Note that this is probably one of the most important maps to get a fairly early Robo on, both to determine what the T is doing, but also to defend your natural from any early pressure with tanks firing at your natural from behind the wall. 12Nexus: A bit risky on this map, since you are likely to get scouted early and the scv\marine rush distance aint to long. On the upside however you wont have to worry about factory units getting to your natural anytime soon and many Ts will delay themselves with scouting for proxies, so opening up 2gate with quick 2 zeals greatly increase your chance of defending vs marine\scv rush. 2Base carrier: 2base carriers are in general a really good build on this map due to the layout of the map. Thanks Oystein! It's great to have another great player on board! I will get ur info in tomorrow as I have the day off. You got any for Matchpoint? Thanks again let's keep em comin guys! | ||
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Oystein
Norway1602 Posts
On November 12 2009 14:17 Diamondback2 wrote: Thanks Oystein! It's great to have another great player on board! I will get ur info in tomorrow as I have the day off. You got any for Matchpoint? Thanks again let's keep em comin guys! Not at the moment no, I have only played like maybe 15 games total on that map so I have not really gotten a feel for it, and iv barely watched any progames at it either. Mainly just testing out stuff, and lots of proxies PvT  | ||
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Diamond
United States10796 Posts
On November 12 2009 14:44 Oystein wrote: Not at the moment no, I have only played like maybe 15 games total on that map so I have not really gotten a feel for it, and iv barely watched any progames at it either. Mainly just testing out stuff, and lots of proxies PvT Yeah I tried it today for the first time and got raped for going 12 Nexus. Idk when I look at that map it just seems like a really bad map for PvT. But than again I'm no pro. Wellw hen you come up with some stuff let me know so I can get it in! Until than keep the entries coming, the map pages are starting to look good! Thanks again! | ||
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foppa
Canada451 Posts
On November 12 2009 14:44 Oystein wrote: Not at the moment no, I have only played like maybe 15 games total on that map so I have not really gotten a feel for it, and iv barely watched any progames at it either. Mainly just testing out stuff, and lots of proxies PvT ya it should be noted that proxy gates are strong on every 2 player map PvT | ||
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MrHickoryHam54
United States208 Posts
On October 23 2009 15:39 Wire wrote: 1 gate core forever. waaaaaayy too vague. at least tell us if u go nex/robo/citadel (depending on the MU, which u also forgot) 1 gate core is only good PVT, other wise, do 2 gate nex, or FFE. *this is not a suggestion to the BO list | ||
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Diamond
United States10796 Posts
On November 12 2009 21:21 foppa wrote: ya it should be noted that proxy gates are strong on every 2 player map PvT Is there ne ones this would not apply 2? or is it literally every 2 player map? | ||
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foppa
Canada451 Posts
On November 29 2009 07:33 Diamondback2 wrote: Is there ne ones this would not apply 2? or is it literally every 2 player map? island maps i guess heartbreak ridge is not as good as destination because you can wall the choke of with barracks and 1 depot eliminating the strength of a 9 gate or double 9 gate. 7 gate remains strong on it. | ||
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