• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 01:19
CET 07:19
KST 15:19
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Finals Preview: Sweet Victory!12[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror6[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5
Community News
Weekly Cups (October 19-25): Clem triples first in 5.0.175Evil Geniuses - shutting down21ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier7Weekly Cups (October 12-18): 5.0.17 era begins1[$1250] International ShieldBattery League100
StarCraft 2
General
No more SC2 streamers on team liquid? How do you feel about the mass reverts in the 5.0.17 PTR? Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book 5.0.17 Patch Notes - October 7, 2026 Evil Geniuses - shutting down
Tourneys
WardiTV Mondays ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-22
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[D] the control group Simple Questions/Answers [G] How to playtest arcade maps [A] Nemrods 1/4 players
External Content
Mutation # 550 Graveyard Shift The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 549 Endless Sparkles Mutation # 548 Shining Bright
Brood War
General
Rollback Netcode in Brood War How SKT1 S-Tiers Felt To Be Swept By Flash Top Players of October 2026 (EBPD Rankings) BW General Discussion Sagi.gg Launcher Released
Tourneys
[$1250] International ShieldBattery League [Megathread] Daily Proleagues 2v2v2v2 Tournament Stage 1: Community Poll [IPSL] IPSL Winter 26-27 Ro24 is HERE!
Strategy
50,000-Word Terran Builds Memo 2026-10-22 Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Deus Ex 3!? Mobile Legends: Bang Bang Armies of Exigo - YesYes?
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25!
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
Men's Fashion Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The Chess Thread
Fan Clubs
Fan Club Resource Thread Reynor Fan Club The Flash Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Why I built Repalyzer (1.1.…
BlueStar
Innovate or Game Over?
TrAiDoS
ShieldBattery on Mac
Kraekkling
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 11003 users

[I] Dark Archon key to next metagame shift in PvZ? - Page 19

Forum Index > Brood War Strategy
Post a Reply
Prev 1 17 18 19 20 21 28 Next All
spinesheath
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Germany8679 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-10-23 18:07:49
October 23 2009 18:07 GMT
#361
On October 24 2009 02:27 lac29 wrote:
Shield batteries proxy or not in early stage of game to keep corsairs alive?


Corsairs DIE to scourge. They don't get damaged, they DIE.
If you have a good reason to disagree with the above, please tell me. Thank you.
antrax
Profile Joined July 2005
Peru191 Posts
October 23 2009 20:01 GMT
#362
Archon merging should be cancellable like lurker morphing maybe with a bigger delay, HT are too weak and slow, yet so important in PvZ. Cancellable archon merging would give them a reasonable chance to not be sniped before important battles.
Deep tech
Nevuk
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States16280 Posts
October 23 2009 20:08 GMT
#363
On October 24 2009 03:07 spinesheath wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 24 2009 02:27 lac29 wrote:
Shield batteries proxy or not in early stage of game to keep corsairs alive?


Corsairs DIE to scourge. They don't get damaged, they DIE.

If they only get hit by one, which seems to happen to me a lot, a fully recharged shield would let them take an additional hit, would be repeatable 3 times I think. (80 shields + 100 hp = 180 , - 110 = 70 hp + 80 = 150 - 110 = 40, + 80 = 120 - 110 = 10) no clue if it's really worth it though.
lac29
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States1485 Posts
October 23 2009 21:36 GMT
#364
But it can be used for shuttle play as well. Maybe it can be built into a FE build's natural wall.
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-10-23 22:05:51
October 23 2009 22:05 GMT
#365
On October 24 2009 05:08 Nevuk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 24 2009 03:07 spinesheath wrote:
On October 24 2009 02:27 lac29 wrote:
Shield batteries proxy or not in early stage of game to keep corsairs alive?


Corsairs DIE to scourge. They don't get damaged, they DIE.

If they only get hit by one, which seems to happen to me a lot, a fully recharged shield would let them take an additional hit, would be repeatable 3 times I think. (80 shields + 100 hp = 180 , - 110 = 70 hp + 80 = 150 - 110 = 40, + 80 = 120 - 110 = 10) no clue if it's really worth it though.

I think the problem is that in the phase of the game where it's useful, it's too hard to defend a proxy shield battery. If it's too close to your base, your shuttles/corsairs won't reach it in time, and if it's too far, the fact that you can't cover it means that the zerg can send 6 zerglings to kill the battery/pylon.
Moderator
Triple7
Profile Joined April 2009
United States656 Posts
October 23 2009 22:38 GMT
#366
지지이이이이이이이이이이이
SturmAddict
Profile Joined October 2009
Malaysia176 Posts
October 24 2009 09:21 GMT
#367
Im sorry triple7, but all i see that's been maelstrom'd, was his own units.

Although i did not see a single hydra/mutalisk in the game. which is wierd. Maybe the zerg thought he's against bio or something.
metaldragon
Profile Joined October 2009
United States251 Posts
October 24 2009 09:26 GMT
#368
It served its purpose. It denied muta from sniping the zeo/archon well into the late midgame which is the usual counter to zeo/archon. Kal was able to freely roam without fear of muta.

The DA basically eliminates the option of muta sniping from the table.
RaptorX
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
Germany646 Posts
October 24 2009 11:50 GMT
#369
On October 24 2009 18:21 SturmAddict wrote:
Im sorry triple7, but all i see that's been maelstrom'd, was his own units.

Although i did not see a single hydra/mutalisk in the game. which is wierd. Maybe the zerg thought he's against bio or something.


I guess zerg didnt make mutas because of the DA which is the point of this discussion... do you think he would like to get 5-9 mutas maelstromed/stormed + killed on a few seconds?...

I really find curious that he maelstromed his own units... nice mistake but I guess even if the DA wasnt maelstroming a lot of lurkers it fulfilled its purpose of keeping the HT's alive.

I won
Ota Solgryn
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
Denmark2011 Posts
October 24 2009 12:12 GMT
#370
I think it is really ironic how many people here rejects most suggestions by "its too hard to control/dont have time to do it etc.".

You think it is easy for zerg to fly around doing muta micro while macroing from three bases? This is something zerg have been doing and practising for many years and therefore have perfected it. So I really think protoss should be able to learn to control ONE unit that has a target spell of 10 range.

And now some of you probably argue, "well zerg can just decide when to attack with muta's but toss have to be aware at all time".
Well, while this might be true, look at ZvT matchup. Here the zerg muta micros nearly all game while macroing often from three bases. So it is certainly possible. Another thing zerg is capable of is being aware of science vessels which can just fly in and snipe defilers etc.

So basically zerg have always had weak units that could be sniped, but has learned to deal with it by having crazy apm, reaction time and awareness.
Why should protoss not be able to do this? Only two arguments:

Either they are just less good (which I really don't think) OR they just have to play 1000 games with e.g. DA's and then they will master them.
ihasaKAROT: "Wish people would stop wasting their lives on finding flaws in others"
Suc
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Australia1569 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-10-24 13:56:17
October 24 2009 12:36 GMT
#371
I was playing a PT v ZZ and I can tell everyone that I found maelstrom incredibly useful, however since the zergs didn't use mutas (at all!, I have no clue why) I used it as a kind of stasis for their mass hydra x2. Worked incredibly well, while zealots engaged the front hydras, most of the back ones and some clumped lurkers were maelstromed and I simply stormed the crap out of them and killed both their armies in no time.

With 3 dark archons and my army, it was easy to destroy a large group of hydras that would have easily killed my army regularly if I didn't have the DAs.

One really good use of maelstrom was that I could freeze hordes of hydras and basically nullify any possibility of storm dodging, allowing me to easily come out on top in confrontations.
Nytefish
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United Kingdom4282 Posts
October 24 2009 13:36 GMT
#372
On October 24 2009 21:36 Suc wrote:
One really good use of maelstrom was that I could freeze hordes of hydras and it basically nullify any possibility of storm dodging, allowing me to easily come out on top in confrontations.


It's a beautiful sight:

[image loading]


[image loading]


I've been trying to include a DA into my C rank games. A nice thing you can try do is hide it in a shuttle, when mutas come in to snipe templars you unload and kill them all for free. The shuttle gives vision over ledges too.
No I'm never serious.
ATLAS-3.04
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States190 Posts
October 24 2009 13:56 GMT
#373
^Beautiful.

You know, as far as the pro scene goes, I'm thinking that if the protoss doesn't implement DA into standard PvZ play, things are over for them. There just is no other way to protect HTs.
"I wheel destoryed, ehh, everywon... okay? In two-souzand-nine! Tank you!" ~Savior, Blizzcon 2008
Suc
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Australia1569 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-10-24 14:05:02
October 24 2009 14:04 GMT
#374
On October 24 2009 22:36 Nytefish wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 24 2009 21:36 Suc wrote:
One really good use of maelstrom was that I could freeze hordes of hydras and it basically nullify any possibility of storm dodging, allowing me to easily come out on top in confrontations.


It's a beautiful sight:

[image loading]


[image loading]


I've been trying to include a DA into my C rank games. A nice thing you can try do is hide it in a shuttle, when mutas come in to snipe templars you unload and kill them all for free. The shuttle gives vision over ledges too.

Yes! Now everyone can see that DAs give protoss an even greater chance of fighting much larger armies and coming out on top. It can be seen from those pictures that you gained a good advantage by killing a large amount of the zerg's force, with barely losing any units yourself.

If players begin trying to use DAs, even just for a few games, the results should be fairly good.
ajmbek
Profile Joined November 2008
Italy460 Posts
October 24 2009 14:12 GMT
#375
Dark Arcons are not a new unit, like 2-3 years ago they were really in fashion mode (: and there where big discussions about them usage, before the protosses decide what is better, zergs switchs theyr style and gameplay so DAs was passed from mode to a non used unit. Now Zergs switched again and DAs seems to be a good counter for an agressive play, for defensive still 2arkon 4-5sair 2kenon per exp
Sic iter ad astra
Xiphos
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Canada7507 Posts
October 24 2009 14:16 GMT
#376
OMG Nytefish, by any chance can you upload that replay somewhere? I REALLY want to see it in action!
2014 - ᕙ( •̀ل͜•́) ϡ Raise your bows brood warriors! ᕙ( •̀ل͜•́) ϡ
metaldragon
Profile Joined October 2009
United States251 Posts
October 24 2009 14:28 GMT
#377
from the mini map looks like he lost that game. violet vs shine had some great DA moments though.
errol1001
Profile Joined April 2008
454 Posts
October 24 2009 15:09 GMT
#378
On October 24 2009 21:12 Ota Solgryn wrote:

You think it is easy for zerg to fly around doing muta micro while macroing from three bases? This is something zerg have been doing and practising for many years and therefore have perfected it. So I really think protoss should be able to learn to control ONE unit that has a target spell of 10 range.

And now some of you probably argue, "well zerg can just decide when to attack with muta's but toss have to be aware at all time".
Well, while this might be true, look at ZvT matchup. Here the zerg muta micros nearly all game while macroing often from three bases. So it is certainly possible. Another thing zerg is capable of is being aware of science vessels which can just fly in and snipe defilers etc.

So basically zerg have always had weak units that could be sniped, but has learned to deal with it by having crazy apm, reaction time and awareness.
Why should protoss not be able to do this? Only two arguments:

Either they are just less good (which I really don't think) OR they just have to play 1000 games with e.g. DA's and then they will master them.


I do think it's possible for protoss to use dark archons, and I do think they should... I think this argument is pretty weak though. There's no comparing science vessels irradiating defilers to mutas sniping templar. Science vessels are slower. They can generally be in much less places of the map - you have a much better chance of knowing where they are. That's because if the terran doesn't want to lose them, they have to be near the globs of marines. Mutas can easily be anywhere on the map, because they don't really fear anything or can run from it (they're fast). So mutas will come in from behind, from the sides, etc to snipe templar. having templar behind your army, or really distinctly on any side of your army gets them killed. Having defilers far back, actually helps them a lot, without mentioning that even when a defiler gets irradiated, they have a good amount of time to do their job.

And I don't know about it being hard to templar snipe 'while macroing'. They really don't have to snipe 'while macroing'. They can build from their hatcheries, and then have plenty of time go sniping before they have 3 larva again. Again, you even brought it up yourself: no comparison with having to be ready to do something all the time.
Ota Solgryn
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
Denmark2011 Posts
October 24 2009 15:24 GMT
#379
On October 25 2009 00:09 errol1001 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 24 2009 21:12 Ota Solgryn wrote:

You think it is easy for zerg to fly around doing muta micro while macroing from three bases? This is something zerg have been doing and practising for many years and therefore have perfected it. So I really think protoss should be able to learn to control ONE unit that has a target spell of 10 range.

And now some of you probably argue, "well zerg can just decide when to attack with muta's but toss have to be aware at all time".
Well, while this might be true, look at ZvT matchup. Here the zerg muta micros nearly all game while macroing often from three bases. So it is certainly possible. Another thing zerg is capable of is being aware of science vessels which can just fly in and snipe defilers etc.

So basically zerg have always had weak units that could be sniped, but has learned to deal with it by having crazy apm, reaction time and awareness.
Why should protoss not be able to do this? Only two arguments:

Either they are just less good (which I really don't think) OR they just have to play 1000 games with e.g. DA's and then they will master them.


I do think it's possible for protoss to use dark archons, and I do think they should... I think this argument is pretty weak though. There's no comparing science vessels irradiating defilers to mutas sniping templar. Science vessels are slower. They can generally be in much less places of the map - you have a much better chance of knowing where they are. That's because if the terran doesn't want to lose them, they have to be near the globs of marines. Mutas can easily be anywhere on the map, because they don't really fear anything or can run from it (they're fast). So mutas will come in from behind, from the sides, etc to snipe templar. having templar behind your army, or really distinctly on any side of your army gets them killed. Having defilers far back, actually helps them a lot, without mentioning that even when a defiler gets irradiated, they have a good amount of time to do their job.

And I don't know about it being hard to templar snipe 'while macroing'. They really don't have to snipe 'while macroing'. They can build from their hatcheries, and then have plenty of time go sniping before they have 3 larva again. Again, you even brought it up yourself: no comparison with having to be ready to do something all the time.


But you just disregard my argument of making muta herassment for the most of a game against a terran, where one slipup will cost you the game. Zergs can do this so toss' should be able to micro one unit, even though they have to be aware all the time.
ihasaKAROT: "Wish people would stop wasting their lives on finding flaws in others"
GiftPflanZe
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Germany623 Posts
October 24 2009 18:49 GMT
#380
Since protoss spends more time on his Army then a zerg does it shouldnt be too hard to get the mutas in mealstorm
...
Prev 1 17 18 19 20 21 28 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Replay Cast
08:00
Enki Pro Series #9
Rogue vs ClassicLIVE!
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
WinterStarcraft473
Codebar 44
StarCraft: Brood War
Rain 2303
GuemChi 1211
Hyuk 316
ProTech165
Pusan 53
910 49
Bale 38
ZergMaN 34
ToSsGirL 22
Noble 20
[ Show more ]
yabsab 10
Force[name] 9
Icarus 7
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm216
League of Legends
JimRising 615
Counter-Strike
fl0m3595
Other Games
summit1g9741
XaKoH 481
C9.Mang0280
Mew2King64
Sick61
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick538
Counter-Strike
PGL225
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• practicex 37
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Laughngamez YouTube
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota2438
League of Legends
• Rush1021
• Lourlo930
• Stunt373
Other Games
• Shiphtur398
Upcoming Events
Patches Events
6h 42m
PiGosaur Cup
18h 42m
Kung Fu Cup
1d 4h
Replay Cast
1d 16h
The PondCast
2 days
KCM Race Survival
2 days
OSC
2 days
IntoTheTV X SOOP
4 days
Reynor vs Solar
ByuN vs SHIN
Clem vs MaxPax
herO vs Rogue
WardiTV Invitational
4 days
IPSL
4 days
WorsT vs nOmaD
Dewalt vs andersOn
[ Show More ]
IntoTheTV X SOOP
5 days
WardiTV Invitational
5 days
IPSL
5 days
Azhi_Dahaki vs ggnore13
Double vs WIZARD
Replay Cast
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-11-02
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HCC Season 3

Ongoing

Acropolis #5
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4
International ShieldBattery League
BSL Season 23
IPSL Winter 2026-27
Calamity Cup Div. A Season 8
IEM Beijing 2026
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026

Upcoming

1xBet Invitational
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
BLAST Bounty Winter 2027
eXTREMESLAND 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.