EPTI think he'll fare quite well doing that though, random T will of course be the best, but his P used to be good too so, he'll just have to pray he doesn't end up with ZvT, ZvZ =]
Elkys Random
| Forum Index > BW General |
|
Dealer
Sweden1368 Posts
I think he'll fare quite well doing that though, random T will of course be the best, but his P used to be good too so, he'll just have to pray he doesn't end up with ZvT, ZvZ =] | ||
|
Fever_tr
Turkey222 Posts
| ||
|
GoSexyPerli
United States1072 Posts
| ||
|
Zzang
1303 Posts
| ||
Waxangel
United States33176 Posts
| ||
|
ky[Z]
China1730 Posts
| ||
Liquid`Drone
Norway28591 Posts
| ||
|
ky[Z]
China1730 Posts
On December 09 2003 19:18 Liquid`Drone wrote: bah I dont think randoming is all that hard=] random in bnet is different from random in OGN  | ||
|
VerSerK
Argentina326 Posts
| ||
|
ggt
France58 Posts
| ||
|
Dealer
Sweden1368 Posts
| ||
|
Tien
Russian Federation4447 Posts
But, it hasn't been long at all since he has chosen random so he will get d by all the terrans, zergs, and protoss players if he goes random and gets zerg. random on paradoxxx is ly. | ||
|
Dealer
Sweden1368 Posts
| ||
|
Beast_Bg
Bulgaria1623 Posts
 . | ||
|
ayer
Mexico164 Posts
| ||
|
Liquid`Drone
Norway28591 Posts
to be honest a random bnet/wgtour player probably has more practice against random than pro koreans, as most of them even refuse to play vs random. and I think beast is correct. my terran (in particulary tvz/tvt) is pretty weak compared to my other matchups but I can still win a lot random tvz/random tvt simply with some luck one game only strategy. and when I random zerg vs protoss I have such an advantage compared to picked zerg vs protoss.. and you don't really have to practice three times as much or anything like that, because when you play tvz you also practice zvt. the matchups where random players are bad are normally tvt/pvp/zvz. (and I doubt elky can touch any of the koreans at zvz, so he should just pray he doesn't get that matchup. =] ) | ||
|
Asta
Germany3491 Posts
On December 09 2003 20:49 Liquid`Drone wrote: why is random in bnet different from random in ogn? to be honest a random bnet/wgtour player probably has more practice against random than pro koreans, as most of them even refuse to play vs random. and I think beast is correct. my terran (in particulary tvz/tvt) is pretty weak compared to my other matchups but I can still win a lot random tvz/random tvt simply with some luck one game only strategy. and when I random zerg vs protoss I have such an advantage compared to picked zerg vs protoss.. and you don't really have to practice three times as much or anything like that, because when you play tvz you also practice zvt. the matchups where random players are bad are normally tvt/pvp/zvz. (and I doubt elky can touch any of the koreans at zvz, so he should just pray he doesn't get that matchup. =] ) don't forget ogn players usually practice _ a lot_ for a specific match. that means they make a lot of games just for one match up on one map. and i'm sure these guys usually have a couple of strats completely worked out before the game and mostly new strats because old strats are easy to beat. so if you're actually going to play random, u will indeed need (maybe not exactly) 3 times more practice. ur opponent will more or less have the same problem but imagine u lose all your matches due to that fact and all of them lose only one game. ^^ i'm pretty sure there's a reason why there are no real random players in ogn anymore. when chrh was still playing random, the game was still a lot less 'known' and creativity was more important then practice i guess (grrr..., boxer). | ||
|
bASesinAtOR
Bhutan1295 Posts
| ||
|
Liquid`Drone
Norway28591 Posts
cause he's UNABLE to use _any_ build orders that requires him to deviate from his normal builds before he has scouted his opponent. this is something you as a random player can take pretty big advantage of. like if you random into zerg vs a protoss player and it's a big tourney, you can fast expand pretty damn safely, because no protoss is gonna go 9/10 or anything like that when he doesn't know the race of his opponent. so they end up having to practice both pvz and pv random zerg and pvt and pv random t and pvp and pv random p. cheesing from random usually isn't that smart though, because people tend to defend against that. what you want to do is make some build order that gives you a lot of units at some spesific point of the game where he's likely to not have a lot of units because he used a safe build. (that is for the matchups you're not used to playing yourself. ) | ||
|
bASesinAtOR
Bhutan1295 Posts
On December 09 2003 21:09 Liquid`Drone wrote: asta it's a lot worse for your opponent cause he's UNABLE to use _any_ build orders that requires him to deviate from his normal builds before he has scouted his opponent. this is something you as a random player can take pretty big advantage of. like if you random into zerg vs a protoss player and it's a big tourney, you can fast expand pretty damn safely, because no protoss is gonna go 9/10 or anything like that when he doesn't know the race of his opponent. so they end up having to practice both pvz and pv random zerg and pvt and pv random t and pvp and pv random p. cheesing from random usually isn't that smart though, because people tend to defend against that. what you want to do is make some build order that gives you a lot of units at some spesific point of the game where he's likely to not have a lot of units because he used a safe build. (that is for the matchups you're not used to playing yourself. ) matchups like that will also bring new strategies to the game. | ||
|
SoL.Origin
Argentina2400 Posts
| ||
|
iD.Twisted
Netherlands3102 Posts
| ||
|
Liquid`Drone
Norway28591 Posts
if the random user does not attack early nor lets himself be countered, the safe build user is at a disadvantage. thus the safe build user will most likely produce peons for a while hoping his opponent doesn't do any attacks during like a 30-second timespan, and if the random player then manages to time a good attack to happen during that 30-second period of time then he has a good shot at ending the game right there or at least damaging him hard enough to make him win even though he is not as technically skilled. | ||
|
Kacas
Brazil3143 Posts
=] random z x protoss kakaka | ||
|
Liquid`Drone
Norway28591 Posts
| ||
|
ejai63
United States2101 Posts
| ||
|
ky[Z]
China1730 Posts
| ||
|
TreKloVesRekrul
Sweden43 Posts
if u random..and the other player cheese strat u. ur gonna die since u think he is gonna play "tech" or "exp" strat  | ||
|
TreKloVesRekrul
Sweden43 Posts
| ||
|
Tien
Russian Federation4447 Posts
| ||
|
Liquid`Drone
Norway28591 Posts
| ||
|
TreKloVesRekrul
Sweden43 Posts
| ||
Liquid`RaSZi
Netherlands2766 Posts
| ||
|
iD.Twisted
Netherlands3102 Posts
| ||
|
Liquid`Drone
Norway28591 Posts
| ||
|
Destroyer
Czech Republic931 Posts
| ||
|
Guillaume84
Canada86 Posts
| ||
|
Liquid`Drone
Norway28591 Posts
| ||
|
Tien
Russian Federation4447 Posts
With random you have 9 matchups to practice. With one race you have 3. Leaving your chances of winning to luck is something most pragamers will never do. | ||
|
TreKloVesRekrul
Sweden43 Posts
char could be cheesy but a little risky imo maybe not the new char mot its not used | ||
|
RickJSanchez
United States1585 Posts
 | ||
Klogon
MURICA15980 Posts
On December 09 2003 22:53 Liquid`Drone wrote: trek some people do in wgtour, never met anyone who cheesed in tourney. saying "many" cheese vs random is definitely wrong though, as I random in every single game and I've died vs cheese maybe 5 games in the last 1000. ;( Let me guess: you've played kingdom a total of 5 times? | ||
|
Liquid`Drone
Norway28591 Posts
in fact I play way less now. and yeah, going 10-0 is much harder with random (no player could ever get good enough at every matchup to do as well as nada is doing right now). but for a player who would normally go 1-2 while picking race, going 2-1 with random is easier than going 2-1 while picking race, as long as he practices enough with all races to be "very very good". (something most progamers would become after 150-300 games practice with their "bad" races, or maybe I have too high hopes regarding their talent. ) | ||
|
InFiNitY[pG]
Germany3468 Posts
) that is why i try to safe every game, especially vs people i know i usually beat when i comes to midgame | ||
|
Liquid`Drone
Norway28591 Posts
| ||
|
lucky13
290 Posts
| ||
|
Dealer
Sweden1368 Posts
On December 10 2003 03:17 lucky13 wrote: is this really random?? or will he race pick? That was the question i started the thread with, it has already been answered that he'll go pure random. | ||
|
bigMommA
1985 Posts
| ||
|
no1important
557 Posts
| ||
|
bigMommA
1985 Posts
On December 10 2003 03:45 no1important wrote: elky's doomed. Wont get enough practice to keep up with progamers. Look at ChRh, he couldnt handle playing 9 matchups because he couldnt keep up with the other pro's in that ygclan interview of chrh, chrh says that he only switched to terran because he thought terran was the funnest race, not because of he thought they were strong. he also said he might go back to playing both terran and toss because his fans like watching his PvTs. | ||
|
TreKloVesRekrul
Sweden43 Posts
| ||
|
ejai63
United States2101 Posts
| ||
|
`West Winds RaininG`
United States12 Posts
| ||
|
STIMEY d okgm fish
Canada6140 Posts
| ||
Emlary
China3334 Posts
Junwi/ElkY on Nostalgia ElkY/Rainbow on Paradoxxx 2 seeing his group match-ups i'd like to see the last game vs rainbow on the LOVELY islands map^^ | ||
|
gogo
Congo37 Posts
| ||
|
ejai63
United States2101 Posts
| ||
|
ZyPhReX
1192 Posts
| ||
|
Waxangel
United States33176 Posts
| ||
|
FeeLdAfuRy
Australia290 Posts
| ||
|
Beast_Bg
Bulgaria1623 Posts
.Even if he cant learn 1 good zvz strat on the map he can always 4 pool and get a pretty sure win .On isle he should just pick P vs Z . | ||
|
Funktion
Australia156 Posts
On December 10 2003 12:57 FeeLdAfuRy wrote: Elky is faking. He's going to make his opponent practise all their matchups and he'll just pick Terran when he gets in. You can't trust a Frenchy. If they've practised all the matchups then him picking Terran won't matter... | ||
|
KaXe
Sweden19 Posts
On December 10 2003 14:27 Beast_Bg wrote: Its not so much about practice lately , but about better strategy IMO...And i dont think zvz is that hard to learn .Even if he cant learn 1 good zvz strat on the map he can always 4 pool and get a pretty sure win .On isle he should just pick P vs Z .yupp latepick P in OGN would be gosu | ||
|
luminosity_
Canada378 Posts
| ||
Legionnaire
Australia4514 Posts
I have all the inside goss! but i have taken a vow of silence. beginning NOW! | ||
|
Dealer
Sweden1368 Posts
On December 10 2003 14:27 Beast_Bg wrote: Its not so much about practice lately , but about better strategy IMO...And i dont think zvz is that hard to learn .Even if he cant learn 1 good zvz strat on the map he can always 4 pool and get a pretty sure win .On isle he should just pick P vs Z .uh? =( 4 pool is certainly not a "pretty sure win", besides i believe z v z to be the hardest matchup of them all to practice if you are aiming at OGN level. The koreans have played an insane amount of games in that matchup. | ||
|
Taguchi
Greece1575 Posts
On December 10 2003 05:45 Emlary wrote: ElkY/NaDa on Namja Iyagi Junwi/ElkY on Nostalgia ElkY/Rainbow on Paradoxxx 2 seeing his group match-ups i'd like to see the last game vs rainbow on the LOVELY islands map^^ Hmm didn't know about that, looks bad already for elky, facing terran on namja iyagi(imagine he randoms toss on close positions against nada!), zerg on nostalgia and toss on paradoxxx2. If he needs a bit of luck to advance in ogn, this does not look like a fair start | ||
X)Benny
France1270 Posts
On December 10 2003 15:24 Legionnaire wrote: Once you announce your race you can not change it. so he can not pick, he must stay random no matter what. I have all the inside goss! but i have taken a vow of silence. Please tell, please tell! More seriously -> Leg: in last OGN junwi picked PvT on Paradoxxx, isn't it? Why was this allowed? Because he announced it beforehand? -> Drone: as a rZ, do you send your ovie to scout? as a random in general, do you scout as if you picked your race, or do you delay your scouting to avoid telling your oponent your race before he finds out by himself? | ||
|
iloveoo
634 Posts
imo 0-3 looks about 95% certain | ||
Carnac
Germany / USA16648 Posts
On December 10 2003 15:24 Legionnaire wrote: Once you announce your race you can not change it. so he can not pick, he must stay random no matter what. You've got to announce it for the whole season or just for the single match (-> race picking)? | ||
|
Legionnaire
Australia4514 Posts
In the game July vs Giyom, july practiced for ages for TvP on paradoxx but forgot to inform AMD manager so it wasn't allowed. So he had 1 day of ZvP practice, then Giyom accepted him to go T before the game (master of pvt islands~!) that is as far as i know the only time it has been accepted without massive prior notice. carnac: at the start you announce for the entire season, if your a race abuser... i mean picker... it shows up as "p or t" etc. (like in the case of bluek) | ||
|
HnR)hT
United States3468 Posts
I'd say elky's odds of advancing from his group are around 1:8 against. | ||
|
Liquid`Drone
Norway28591 Posts
| ||
|
STIMEY d okgm fish
Canada6140 Posts
what elky's random does is force the opponents to play it safe builds that can't be cheesed. if someone rushes instead, they might kill elky but they don't even know what race he is so it's risky. elky gains an economical advantage by assuming his opponents play safe builds instead of having to play a safer build himself. if elky doesn't do this, he's taking a risk to catch someone off guard who maybe expects elky will play for the economical advantage a little too much. | ||
|
Legionnaire
Australia4514 Posts
if elky gets z he has 2 weeks of experience, if he gets p he gets outdated protoss to use, if he gets t then he has a big advantage | ||
|
_liquid_
France98 Posts
| ||
|
_liquid_
France98 Posts
| ||
|
Zob
Germany226 Posts
| ||
|
dronebabo
10866 Posts
| ||
|
Resonate
United Kingdom8402 Posts
On December 10 2003 03:45 no1important wrote: elky's doomed. Wont get enough practice to keep up with progamers. Look at ChRh, he couldnt handle playing 9 matchups because he couldnt keep up with the other pro's wtf no he raped with his random, it was only when he started being pure terran that he really slumped | ||
|
Resonate
United Kingdom8402 Posts
On December 10 2003 17:30 iloveoo wrote: elky will go down.....................badly imo 0-3 looks about 95% certain well there's a high chance he'll get terran in one of the games at least, so why not win that game, random terran is an advantage for him | ||
|
Mydnyte
3306 Posts
http://www.sclegacy.com/sections.php?op=viewarticle&artid=149 He stated that he originally was protoss, changing into Random. Then, switching to Terran, a reason being because he said Protoss vs Zerg is really hard for him. Wouldn't that be what he is actually more worried about? Than rather if he gets Z? Maybe Elky is confident enough in his Z he won't have to worry so much, but his PvZ, to watch out for.  | ||
|
StierKooL
Peru194 Posts
| ||
Beyonder
Netherlands15103 Posts
| ||
|
DooMeR
United States1519 Posts
| ||
ToKoreaWithLove
Norway10161 Posts
Means that korean girls have sexy asses... | ||
Rekrul
Korea (South)17174 Posts
| ||
|
DooMeR
United States1519 Posts
 | ||
|
Moth
Sweden468 Posts
On December 09 2003 20:49 Liquid`Drone wrote: why is random in bnet the matchups where random players are bad are normally tvt/pvp/zvz. (and I doubt elky can touch any of the koreans at zvz, so he should just pray he doesn't get that matchup. =] ) Not that he would have a chance tvt either, or pvp. | ||
|
DooMeR
United States1519 Posts
he should have no problem keeping that in shape | ||
|
LMNt
Australia26 Posts
what is wrong with waiting to see what HE has planned? instead of what you plan for him? you would think that people have better things to do with their time.. | ||
|
Fox
United States408 Posts
Fox | ||
|
GundamVX
United States1025 Posts
On December 11 2003 02:13 ToKoreaWithLove wrote: Means that korean girls have sexy asses... And where did u get this information? Most Korean girls have very flat asses. | ||
|
STIMEY d okgm fish
Canada6140 Posts
| ||
|
bigMommA
1985 Posts
from elky's interview.. maybe elky can start up his own team and hire amatuers | ||
|
Tricky
China752 Posts
On December 09 2003 19:12 ky[Z] wrote: he wants to end his progamer career ealier, lol.. LOL INDEED ! | ||
|
Beast_Bg
Bulgaria1623 Posts
.I often do this with chosen zerg too.Im sure Elky wont have any problems with his P.What really concerns me is his Z experience , but I'm sure he knows what he's doing and is probably good enough already. | ||
|
X)Benny
France1270 Posts
On December 11 2003 13:02 Beast_Bg wrote: Somebody mentioned about the RZ overlord stuff..I think its best to send it to in front of your entrance to see which way his peon comes from and then go that way .I often do this with chosen zerg too.thx and thx Drone too. I'm really looking forward to see those games with a R player. | ||
|
Zob
Germany226 Posts
Well, I'm not sure if elky knows what he is doing, probably he just wants to have more fun. =) | ||
|
TreKloVesRekrul
Sweden43 Posts
| ||
|
STIMEY d okgm fish
Canada6140 Posts
| ||
|
Zob
Germany226 Posts
| ||
| ||
