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konadora
Singapore66145 Posts
On June 06 2009 17:57 JWD wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2009 17:53 konadora wrote:
It's like when SKT1 sent out players like Best and TheZerg for ace match. Nope, this is way worse than any instance I can recall of T1 sending BeSt or Thezerg: a) Terran map b) fOrGG lost to Leta the last time they played - in the ace game of KT's last match vs Hitec) Flash just beat Leta with a ridiculous comeback d) Flash is clearly superior to fOrGG in all matchups, but especially TvT
I mean it's similar as in, you have a almost-guarantee 100% win ace card in your arsenal, why don't use it?
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d) Flash is clearly superior to fOrGG in all matchups, but especially TvT
i think d goes to prove that the coach from KT is probably clinically insane. because this is 100% true. i think he was hoping that Leta was fatigued from the first game, and that ForGG was fresh, this is the only thing that makes sense... if only these guys werent tuned for playing SC for 6 hour stretches >.<
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United States12607 Posts
On June 06 2009 18:01 p4NDemik wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2009 17:56 Rostam wrote:
I really don't see why they can't just have one-way glass.. It may be that it doesn't function well with cameras and everything, but after tonight I can't see how it isn't going to seriously be looked into. It only makes sense, and no one wants to go through an ordeal like this again.
What about looking into some useful KeSPA rules? Honestly, it's just pathetic that a coach complaining during a game is a completely foreign situation for a KeSPA ref to find himself in. This incident is on the most fundamental level of sports conflict resolution: opposing team makes an unsubstantiated claim during an ongoing match/game. I really can't believe that KeSPA didn't have a procedure for addressing this, and also that the path the ref chose (pausing the game) was clearly wrong.
I guess there is a silver lining: all of these incidents might force KeSPA to adopt some useful rules about how to deal with in-match disputes to go along with all of their useless bullshit about what players can and cannot type during a game.
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
On June 06 2009 18:04 konadora wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2009 17:57 JWD wrote:On June 06 2009 17:53 konadora wrote:
It's like when SKT1 sent out players like Best and TheZerg for ace match. Nope, this is way worse than any instance I can recall of T1 sending BeSt or Thezerg: a) Terran map b) fOrGG lost to Leta the last time they played - in the ace game of KT's last match vs Hitec) Flash just beat Leta with a ridiculous comeback d) Flash is clearly superior to fOrGG in all matchups, but especially TvT I mean it's similar as in, you have a almost-guarantee 100% win ace card in your arsenal, why don't use it?
Back a couple rounds ago in PL, Best was literally mopping up the competition on maps like Colosseum and Othello and was showing more steady play than Bisu at the time. Nowadays, I question why the ever send Best because god damn he sucks.
Anyways, I can understand sending TheZerg when it's a map like Battle Royale, but sometimes I just don't understand why they don't just use Bisu every fucking Ace match.
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I thought shades of twilight was a protoss map?
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United States12607 Posts
On June 06 2009 18:04 konadora wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2009 17:57 JWD wrote:On June 06 2009 17:53 konadora wrote:
It's like when SKT1 sent out players like Best and TheZerg for ace match. Nope, this is way worse than any instance I can recall of T1 sending BeSt or Thezerg: a) Terran map b) fOrGG lost to Leta the last time they played - in the ace game of KT's last match vs Hitec) Flash just beat Leta with a ridiculous comeback d) Flash is clearly superior to fOrGG in all matchups, but especially TvT I mean it's similar as in, you have a almost-guarantee 100% win ace card in your arsenal, why don't use it?
OK yeah, in that sense I totally agree. KT coaches are nuts.
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KeSPA does need more rules about coaches approaching Refs. maybe they are so GM that it almost never happens, but to not have rules about it does seem retarded when they go to the lengths to desigante PPP vs PP
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United States11637 Posts
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51398 Posts
On June 06 2009 18:07 JWD wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2009 18:04 konadora wrote:On June 06 2009 17:57 JWD wrote:On June 06 2009 17:53 konadora wrote:
It's like when SKT1 sent out players like Best and TheZerg for ace match. Nope, this is way worse than any instance I can recall of T1 sending BeSt or Thezerg: a) Terran map b) fOrGG lost to Leta the last time they played - in the ace game of KT's last match vs Hitec) Flash just beat Leta with a ridiculous comeback d) Flash is clearly superior to fOrGG in all matchups, but especially TvT I mean it's similar as in, you have a almost-guarantee 100% win ace card in your arsenal, why don't use it? OK yeah, in that sense I totally agree. KT coaches are nuts.
they have been nutty since the beginning
i'm not sure if you were around, but they lost to air force because they sent hery out for the ace match, where he already lost to mumyung in the set before. mumyung beat him in the ace match again.
and mark these words; forgg will become kt's new sync.
win a starleague, get bought, and slump for the rest of your career.
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United States2186 Posts
On June 06 2009 17:54 JWD wrote:
Someone should clarify this point: would Leta have been significantly more likely to lose if he had not scouted the proxy?
I mean, after a 14cc you are always going to block your choke and throw down a bunker. Does any defensive action you can possibly take in the time between when you scout the proxy and when you'd have noticed it anyway (by speed/quantity of attacking units) really make a huge difference in your ability to defend? Maybe by cutting SCVs hard...I'm just not sure.
I guess what I'm getting at here is that Leta's spotting of the proxy factories may not have even been the game-decider. fOrGG simply failed his micro in the critical attack - that seems much more important to me than Leta scouting the proxy. Am I totally off base here?
Before he sees the proxy Leta has to prepare for a lot of possibilities. Forgg blocked his ramp so he couldn't get any definite evidence from scouting and he might've even scouted the wrong way and not seen the block until later.
As soon as he sees the proxy he instantly 100% knows that a vulture is coming, followed up by a tank if the vulture is nullified. The only issue is what followup there will be, and because he knows the proxy is there he can easily send an scv to scout it (which I believe was forgg's mistake in letting through I didn't spot if he could cover that exit or not properly). If all Leta saw was a blocked main he would've had no idea on the second factory and might have prepared otherwise.
If he just scouted the main he would have been uncertain to both possibilities. It's a big deal but who knows how they game would've played out. ForGG screwed up the opening horribly but nearly game back from an assured loss with strong midgame play (and Leta playing sloppy).
With our lack of information (did they see him looking at the crowd or not) it's hard to make a judgment call on this, but I must say I was very surprised that Leta scouted the middle first. He's not the player that would see this coming I think. If Savior did this nobody would blink an eye but Leta's strength has never been his game sense.
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On June 06 2009 17:42 GTR wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2009 17:41 Last Romantic wrote:
Mrrrr really hard to say either way. One-way glass please -_________- or have a better studio notice all the kespa drama related to proleague happens at the mbc studio there is a reason why yongsan has the elevated booths, because they can't look down properly onto the crowd. mbc's studio is probably one of the most poorest designed ones i've ever seen.
Very good thinking.
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I think they did find evidence of Leta noticing the crowd and then sending the scv to scout.
But the referee decided it didn't have a big influence in the game.
It would explain why this whole thing took so long.
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Referees are really mannered. Anyway in stadium, we waited so so long time.... T.T
Leta played really well durign the last set.
GG to 하이트
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There's been a couple of incidents lately like this, the last one being JD on Heartbreak's ridge, scouting the proxy barracks. I still have no idea how he thought he'd do that, since the scouting SCV arrived from the right angle at the common timing (as far as I could tell anyway)
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Err no, Jaedong sent the OL in the beginning in this direction instead to Leta's main.
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konadora
Singapore66145 Posts
On June 06 2009 18:54 GinNtoniC wrote:
There's been a couple of incidents lately like this, the last one being JD on Heartbreak's ridge, scouting the proxy barracks. I still have no idea how he thought he'd do that, since the scouting SCV arrived from the right angle at the common timing (as far as I could tell anyway)
Then Savior vs Leta = hax?
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United States2186 Posts
On June 06 2009 18:54 GinNtoniC wrote:
There's been a couple of incidents lately like this, the last one being JD on Heartbreak's ridge, scouting the proxy barracks. I still have no idea how he thought he'd do that, since the scouting SCV arrived from the right angle at the common timing (as far as I could tell anyway)
Jaedong does not need to cheat to find that out.
Certain players just have extraordinarily good game sense. There's a reason why it's so hard to cheese Jaedong, Flash, Savior etc.
The odd thing is that Leta is not one of them.
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These guys play hundreds of games on the maps, they know where all the proxy spots are.
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NeverGG
United Kingdom5399 Posts
It would be both ridiculous and hilarious if this led to progamers wearing those visor type glasses old Virtual reality-based dramas (plots about VR world etc.) used as props. I'd have fun photographing something that insane.
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If they are worried about one way glass interfering with the cameras, they can just place a fixed camera inside the booth...
I bet Kespa is doing this because it was unsatisfied with the fact that it was only ranked 9th in last months power ranking.
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EPT
