Coach Lee Ji Hoon requests pause over Leta's suspicious behavior that he thinks is an act of intention of cheating
The ace match between KT and Hite was paused upon request by the coach.
The incident occurred in the ace match, which was between KT's forGG and Hite's Leta.
Leta went for no barracks expo, while forGG went proxy 2 factories in the middle of the map, which Leta scouted with his SCV and was able to defend appropriately.
Following that, coach Lee Ji Hoon accused that Leta glanced at the audience and realised what had happened, and hence was able to act appropriately and gain the good spots for easy defense.
KeSPA's Oh Young Jin referee discussed the issue with the coaches from both sides, and after checking the tapes, concluded that Leta's behavior did not have any significant impact on the game itself and resumed the game.
KeSPA's Oh Young Jin referee discussed the issue with the coaches from both sides, and after checking the tapes, concluded that Leta's behavior did not have any significant impact on the game itself and resumed the game.
On June 06 2009 17:38 lisakki wrote: Makes you wonder about jd vs fantasy.
not at all, did you even watch that game?
it became apparent pretty quick that you can use this accusation at any time durring any game. every time your guy loses, the other guy must have been cheating.
Once again, KeSPA's lack of useful rules manages to unnecessarily interfere with an important game. Here's basically what I said in the LR thread:
The ref should have let the game play out, then reviewed the footage, then decided whether a regame or DQ was warranted. Coaches should absolutely not be able to inspire game pauses (this puts too much power in the hands of coaches and is unfair to the player who has the momentum in the set) - the ref himself has to see something warranting a pause.
The lesson we've learned is that if you want to give your man some time to mellow out in the booth after a rough mistake, just go complain of foul play.
Thank you kona for streaming this epic match and your translation work - it was really important as we all tried to figure out what the hell was going on.
KeSPA's Oh Young Jin referee discussed the issue with the coaches from both sides, and after checking the tapes, concluded that Leta's behavior did not have any significant impact on the game itself and resumed the game.
this took 25 minutes??
why not just get a lie detecter?
Do you know how inaccurate lie detectors are? lol.
I've always wondered about this, but what exactly could've anyone in the crowd been doing to tip leta off? I guess excited reactions and looks might've let him know that something bads going down, but still... One way glass is a good, easy solution
So either Leta just looked at the crowd to see his fans cheer and prepared against 2fac in the practice house so he knew when and where to scout, or not. Now we'll never know ;/
*When Flash goes 14CC Coach: The opponent saw hand signal and went 9pool/double rax/proxy gateway/etc.
On June 06 2009 17:45 Ftrunkz wrote:
Do you know how inaccurate lie detectors are? lol.
I've always wondered about this, but what exactly could've anyone in the crowd been doing to tip leta off? I guess excited reactions and looks might've let him know that something bads going down, but still... One way glass is a good, easy solution
doesnt matter, just get the one that beeps no matter what, and dq leta. lol.
I think tipping off is easy, if the player can see the outside. exmple like, LED lights.
but seriously, how many ace matches have they lost without Flash? i mean... you cant tell me the coach doesnt think about that in retrospect and say hey- next time im going to use that guy. how the fuck?
Someone should clarify this point: would Leta have been significantly more likely to lose if he had not scouted the proxy?
I mean, after a 14cc you are always going to block your choke and throw down a bunker. Does any defensive action you can possibly take in the time between when you scout the proxy and when you'd have noticed it anyway (by speed/quantity of attacking units) really make a huge difference in your ability to defend? Maybe by cutting SCVs hard...I'm just not sure.
I guess what I'm getting at here is that Leta's spotting of the proxy factories may not have even been the game-decider. fOrGG simply failed his micro in the critical attack - that seems much more important to me than Leta scouting the proxy. Am I totally off base here?
No you're right. Leta went 14cc because of the narrow choke, hence easier to wall off in front of the nat cc.
But then again, psychological factors come in play here. He might have decided to wall completely instead of not walling completely because of the accused 'cheating', be more prepared in mind, etc.
On June 06 2009 17:53 konadora wrote: It's like when SKT1 sent out players like Best and TheZerg for ace match.
Nope, this is way worse than any instance I can recall of T1 sending BeSt or Thezerg: a) Terran map b) fOrGG lost to Leta the last time they played - in the ace game of KT's last match vs Hite c) Flash just beat Leta with a ridiculous comeback d) Flash is clearly superior to fOrGG in all matchups, but especially TvT
its not really a question of "did" he cheat or would it have affected the win. the problem is that its possible to cheat, and if they can simply elminate the problem then we dont even have to talk about it anymore. i mean, its gonna cost like 25$ to line those booths with some filmy shit? then you never have to pause a game again, for that. it will pay for itself in electricity i bet.
On June 06 2009 17:56 Rostam wrote: I really don't see why they can't just have one-way glass..
It may be that it doesn't function well with cameras and everything, but after tonight I can't see how it isn't going to seriously be looked into. It only makes sense, and no one wants to go through an ordeal like this again.
On June 06 2009 17:53 konadora wrote: It's like when SKT1 sent out players like Best and TheZerg for ace match.
Nope, this is way worse than any instance I can recall of T1 sending BeSt or Thezerg: a) Terran map b) fOrGG lost to Leta the last time they played - in the ace game of KT's last match vs Hite c) Flash just beat Leta with a ridiculous comeback d) Flash is clearly superior to fOrGG in all matchups, but especially TvT
I mean it's similar as in, you have a almost-guarantee 100% win ace card in your arsenal, why don't use it?
d) Flash is clearly superior to fOrGG in all matchups, but especially TvT
i think d goes to prove that the coach from KT is probably clinically insane. because this is 100% true. i think he was hoping that Leta was fatigued from the first game, and that ForGG was fresh, this is the only thing that makes sense... if only these guys werent tuned for playing SC for 6 hour stretches >.<
On June 06 2009 17:56 Rostam wrote: I really don't see why they can't just have one-way glass..
It may be that it doesn't function well with cameras and everything, but after tonight I can't see how it isn't going to seriously be looked into. It only makes sense, and no one wants to go through an ordeal like this again.
What about looking into some useful KeSPA rules? Honestly, it's just pathetic that a coach complaining during a game is a completely foreign situation for a KeSPA ref to find himself in. This incident is on the most fundamental level of sports conflict resolution: opposing team makes an unsubstantiated claim during an ongoing match/game. I really can't believe that KeSPA didn't have a procedure for addressing this, and also that the path the ref chose (pausing the game) was clearly wrong.
I guess there is a silver lining: all of these incidents might force KeSPA to adopt some useful rules about how to deal with in-match disputes to go along with all of their useless bullshit about what players can and cannot type during a game.
On June 06 2009 17:53 konadora wrote: It's like when SKT1 sent out players like Best and TheZerg for ace match.
Nope, this is way worse than any instance I can recall of T1 sending BeSt or Thezerg: a) Terran map b) fOrGG lost to Leta the last time they played - in the ace game of KT's last match vs Hite c) Flash just beat Leta with a ridiculous comeback d) Flash is clearly superior to fOrGG in all matchups, but especially TvT
I mean it's similar as in, you have a almost-guarantee 100% win ace card in your arsenal, why don't use it?
Back a couple rounds ago in PL, Best was literally mopping up the competition on maps like Colosseum and Othello and was showing more steady play than Bisu at the time. Nowadays, I question why the ever send Best because god damn he sucks.
Anyways, I can understand sending TheZerg when it's a map like Battle Royale, but sometimes I just don't understand why they don't just use Bisu every fucking Ace match.
On June 06 2009 17:53 konadora wrote: It's like when SKT1 sent out players like Best and TheZerg for ace match.
Nope, this is way worse than any instance I can recall of T1 sending BeSt or Thezerg: a) Terran map b) fOrGG lost to Leta the last time they played - in the ace game of KT's last match vs Hite c) Flash just beat Leta with a ridiculous comeback d) Flash is clearly superior to fOrGG in all matchups, but especially TvT
I mean it's similar as in, you have a almost-guarantee 100% win ace card in your arsenal, why don't use it?
OK yeah, in that sense I totally agree. KT coaches are nuts.
KeSPA does need more rules about coaches approaching Refs. maybe they are so GM that it almost never happens, but to not have rules about it does seem retarded when they go to the lengths to desigante PPP vs PP
On June 06 2009 17:53 konadora wrote: It's like when SKT1 sent out players like Best and TheZerg for ace match.
Nope, this is way worse than any instance I can recall of T1 sending BeSt or Thezerg: a) Terran map b) fOrGG lost to Leta the last time they played - in the ace game of KT's last match vs Hite c) Flash just beat Leta with a ridiculous comeback d) Flash is clearly superior to fOrGG in all matchups, but especially TvT
I mean it's similar as in, you have a almost-guarantee 100% win ace card in your arsenal, why don't use it?
OK yeah, in that sense I totally agree. KT coaches are nuts.
they have been nutty since the beginning
i'm not sure if you were around, but they lost to air force because they sent hery out for the ace match, where he already lost to mumyung in the set before. mumyung beat him in the ace match again.
and mark these words; forgg will become kt's new sync. win a starleague, get bought, and slump for the rest of your career.
On June 06 2009 17:54 JWD wrote: Someone should clarify this point: would Leta have been significantly more likely to lose if he had not scouted the proxy?
I mean, after a 14cc you are always going to block your choke and throw down a bunker. Does any defensive action you can possibly take in the time between when you scout the proxy and when you'd have noticed it anyway (by speed/quantity of attacking units) really make a huge difference in your ability to defend? Maybe by cutting SCVs hard...I'm just not sure.
I guess what I'm getting at here is that Leta's spotting of the proxy factories may not have even been the game-decider. fOrGG simply failed his micro in the critical attack - that seems much more important to me than Leta scouting the proxy. Am I totally off base here?
Before he sees the proxy Leta has to prepare for a lot of possibilities. Forgg blocked his ramp so he couldn't get any definite evidence from scouting and he might've even scouted the wrong way and not seen the block until later.
As soon as he sees the proxy he instantly 100% knows that a vulture is coming, followed up by a tank if the vulture is nullified. The only issue is what followup there will be, and because he knows the proxy is there he can easily send an scv to scout it (which I believe was forgg's mistake in letting through I didn't spot if he could cover that exit or not properly). If all Leta saw was a blocked main he would've had no idea on the second factory and might have prepared otherwise.
If he just scouted the main he would have been uncertain to both possibilities. It's a big deal but who knows how they game would've played out. ForGG screwed up the opening horribly but nearly game back from an assured loss with strong midgame play (and Leta playing sloppy).
With our lack of information (did they see him looking at the crowd or not) it's hard to make a judgment call on this, but I must say I was very surprised that Leta scouted the middle first. He's not the player that would see this coming I think. If Savior did this nobody would blink an eye but Leta's strength has never been his game sense.
I think they did find evidence of Leta noticing the crowd and then sending the scv to scout. But the referee decided it didn't have a big influence in the game.
It would explain why this whole thing took so long.
There's been a couple of incidents lately like this, the last one being JD on Heartbreak's ridge, scouting the proxy barracks. I still have no idea how he thought he'd do that, since the scouting SCV arrived from the right angle at the common timing (as far as I could tell anyway)
On June 06 2009 18:54 GinNtoniC wrote: There's been a couple of incidents lately like this, the last one being JD on Heartbreak's ridge, scouting the proxy barracks. I still have no idea how he thought he'd do that, since the scouting SCV arrived from the right angle at the common timing (as far as I could tell anyway)
On June 06 2009 18:54 GinNtoniC wrote: There's been a couple of incidents lately like this, the last one being JD on Heartbreak's ridge, scouting the proxy barracks. I still have no idea how he thought he'd do that, since the scouting SCV arrived from the right angle at the common timing (as far as I could tell anyway)
Jaedong does not need to cheat to find that out.
Certain players just have extraordinarily good game sense. There's a reason why it's so hard to cheese Jaedong, Flash, Savior etc.
It would be both ridiculous and hilarious if this led to progamers wearing those visor type glasses old Virtual reality-based dramas (plots about VR world etc.) used as props. I'd have fun photographing something that insane.
On June 06 2009 19:12 NeverGG wrote: It would be both ridiculous and hilarious if this led to progamers wearing those visor type glasses old Virtual reality-based dramas (plots about VR world etc.) used as props. I'd have fun photographing something that insane.
On June 06 2009 18:38 [M]ToaD wrote: Referees are really mannered. Anyway in stadium, we waited so so long time.... T.T Leta played really well durign the last set. GG to 하이트
Remember sAviOr vs Justin when he 5 pooled and the audience went "ahahaahhahhhhhH!!!" 20 seconds into the game. Justin's head perked up and he immediately changed his build and rushed a barracks while sAviOr just looked pissed that the booths were really badly soundproofed. sAviOr then proceeded to bitchslap him with it anyway, despite the fact he had a bunker before even scouting the 5 pool.
Good job kona : ) At least Kespa didn't make an insane decision this time. Although, of course, if leta had indeed cheated he should have been disqualified. The booths clearly need some changes : )
I'd bet Leta nearly pissed his pants when the ref paused the game, "Fuck! Am i getting DQ'ed for nothing!?!"
Still though it is a very valid argument to point out that it is incredibly easy for players to cheat, i mean u did have loads of fans cheering for u down the stage... lets see how this will pan out.
On June 06 2009 20:33 Kwark wrote: Remember sAviOr vs Justin when he 5 pooled and the audience went "ahahaahhahhhhhH!!!" 20 seconds into the game. Justin's head perked up and he immediately changed his build and rushed a barracks while sAviOr just looked pissed that the booths were really badly soundproofed. sAviOr then proceeded to bitchslap him with it anyway, despite the fact he had a bunker before even scouting the 5 pool.
Means only one thing - MBC stadiums suck. COEX and LOOX.. they are bad. BAD.
Btw, it's this video:
Btw, was Bifrost's former ID 'Casy[name]'? Because it confuses the heck out of me between Bifrost (this one has Casy[Name]) and Casy (now using AdamaS)
On June 06 2009 20:33 Kwark wrote: Remember sAviOr vs Justin when he 5 pooled and the audience went "ahahaahhahhhhhH!!!" 20 seconds into the game. Justin's head perked up and he immediately changed his build and rushed a barracks while sAviOr just looked pissed that the booths were really badly soundproofed. sAviOr then proceeded to bitchslap him with it anyway, despite the fact he had a bunker before even scouting the 5 pool.
Means only one thing - MBC stadiums suck. COEX and LOOX.. they are bad. BAD.
On June 06 2009 21:02 konadora wrote: Btw, was Bifrost's former ID 'Casy[name]'? Because it confuses the heck out of me between Bifrost (this one has Casy[Name]) and Casy (now using AdamaS)
Bitfrost and Casy[Name] are Crocus' past handles. Just call him Crocus or Justin.
It kinda sucks for the players though if they can't hear and see their fans cheering for them once they get in the booth. Maybe they should get that glass that you can turn opaque with the click of a button and soundproof the booths. Just close the door as the countdown is happening or whatever so they players can hear the 하나, 둘, 샛, Playernamehere 화이딩! But then the booth is completely silent.
On June 06 2009 19:12 NeverGG wrote: It would be both ridiculous and hilarious if this led to progamers wearing those visor type glasses old Virtual reality-based dramas (plots about VR world etc.) used as props. I'd have fun photographing something that insane.
On June 06 2009 20:33 Kwark wrote: Remember sAviOr vs Justin when he 5 pooled and the audience went "ahahaahhahhhhhH!!!" 20 seconds into the game. Justin's head perked up and he immediately changed his build and rushed a barracks while sAviOr just looked pissed that the booths were really badly soundproofed. sAviOr then proceeded to bitchslap him with it anyway, despite the fact he had a bunker before even scouting the 5 pool.
Means only one thing - MBC stadiums suck. COEX and LOOX.. they are bad. BAD.
Btw, was Bifrost's former ID 'Casy[name]'? Because it confuses the heck out of me between Bifrost (this one has Casy[Name]) and Casy (now using AdamaS)
Wait I don't think Terran changed BO based on what he heard though. The barrax was 250 hp when looked at immediately after the audience went uproar, so it must've been set up earlier. Also, notice the barrax placement is near the mineral, so he must have sent the scv there beforehand. Also notice his BO, it was rax first then depot near mineral. If he knew it's a 5 pool he would've placed depot near his choke
On June 06 2009 17:38 lisakki wrote: Makes you wonder about jd vs fantasy.
Uhm, 8rax is pretty common on that map and that proxyspot is also common... Its like saying someone is cheating because he scouts proxylocation on destination...
On June 06 2009 20:33 Kwark wrote: Remember sAviOr vs Justin when he 5 pooled and the audience went "ahahaahhahhhhhH!!!" 20 seconds into the game. Justin's head perked up and he immediately changed his build and rushed a barracks while sAviOr just looked pissed that the booths were really badly soundproofed. sAviOr then proceeded to bitchslap him with it anyway, despite the fact he had a bunker before even scouting the 5 pool.
Means only one thing - MBC stadiums suck. COEX and LOOX.. they are bad. BAD.
Btw, was Bifrost's former ID 'Casy[name]'? Because it confuses the heck out of me between Bifrost (this one has Casy[Name]) and Casy (now using AdamaS)
Wait I don't think Terran changed BO based on what he heard though. The barrax was 250 hp when looked at immediately after the audience went uproar, so it must've been set up earlier. Also, notice the barrax placement is near the mineral, so he must have sent the scv there beforehand. Also notice his BO, it was rax first then depot near mineral. If he knew it's a 5 pool he would've placed depot near his choke
8rax was a standard build on reverse temple. it allowed terrans to pressure zerg, then wall up and fast expand afterwards.
lol does anyone think KT might be trying to not overwork Flash? If they sent out Flash, there would be shouts of FLASH IS OVERWORKED ZOMFG CHILD LABOUR! KTFLASHH!! If they don't send out Flash, its AHHHHH KT COACH U ARE SO STUPID!
On June 06 2009 23:46 OreoBoi wrote: lol does anyone think KT might be trying to not overwork Flash? If they sent out Flash, there would be shouts of FLASH IS OVERWORKED ZOMFG CHILD LABOUR! KTFLASHH!! If they don't send out Flash, its AHHHHH KT COACH U ARE SO STUPID!
But its both, stupid ktf coach overworks flash and gets no results, jesus
On June 06 2009 23:46 OreoBoi wrote: lol does anyone think KT might be trying to not overwork Flash? If they sent out Flash, there would be shouts of FLASH IS OVERWORKED ZOMFG CHILD LABOUR! KTFLASHH!! If they don't send out Flash, its AHHHHH KT COACH U ARE SO STUPID!
You think the KTF coaches give a shit what is said about them on message boards?
What...? What's with Leta and bad luck..and aren't the booths designed in such a way that you won't be able to see the crowd? If Leta did look at the crowd then it would be obvious, I think they should review the tapes or something...
Holy crap are you serious? Just because you are pissed that your team member can't beat Leta in a straight up game (and apparently can't cheese as well) doesn't mean that you have the right to accuse the 2nd best terran in the game of cheating. Seriously, between this and the pp incident, Leta has had a rough time over the last couple months. I really, REALLY commend him for being able to keep up his high level of play through all of this BULLSHIT.
On June 06 2009 17:53 konadora wrote: It's like when SKT1 sent out players like Best and TheZerg for ace match.
Nope, this is way worse than any instance I can recall of T1 sending BeSt or Thezerg: a) Terran map b) fOrGG lost to Leta the last time they played - in the ace game of KT's last match vs Hite c) Flash just beat Leta with a ridiculous comeback d) Flash is clearly superior to fOrGG in all matchups, but especially TvT
I mean it's similar as in, you have a almost-guarantee 100% win ace card in your arsenal, why don't use it?
OK yeah, in that sense I totally agree. KT coaches are nuts.
and mark these words; forgg will become kt's new sync. win a starleague, get bought, and slump for the rest of your career.
I think that forgg was actually slumping before being traded from oz to KT, but I don't know forsure. Just seems strange that if he was owning everyone in practice, that they'd play him in PL and stuff. Even if the coach hated him, he'd probably play him if he was the #1 player in practice.. Plus he was on a losing streak before getting traded afaik. but i do agree that he won't have any more success anyway.
Lets say Leta did look at the audience and it swung the game in his favour...... how is that cheating? I mean is ignoring the audience part of the challenges of playing live SC? If he wants to bitch, bitch to KEspa, bitch to MBC for creating the booths.
Last time I checked creating a fair environment where competition takes place is not placed on the competitors.
And from the previous posts, its not the first time it happened where the audience played a factor in the result of the game. The coach's accusations is totally baseless.
On June 07 2009 00:10 KnightOfNi wrote: Holy crap are you serious? Just because you are pissed that your team member can't beat Leta in a straight up game (and apparently can't cheese as well) doesn't mean that you have the right to accuse the 2nd best terran in the game of cheating. Seriously, between this and the pp incident, Leta has had a rough time over the last couple months. I really, REALLY commend him for being able to keep up his high level of play through all of this BULLSHIT.
Leta was influenced by the crowd... The referee didnt say he was innocent. It just didnt have an impact on the game.
Yeah I kind of thought at first that they must have one way glass but eventually realized they didn't and I can't believe that no one can find out a proxy either by hearing cheers or looking or just seeing things out of the corner of their eyes. Didn't one league have players facing backwards? Also, if I was Leta playing fOrGG in an ace match I sure as hell would have checked for proxies more than usual because fOrGG has sucked balls lately and sure as hell wouldn't be expected to beat Leta in a standard game.
On June 07 2009 00:51 SuperArc wrote: IF Leta had expected a proxy without glancing at the crowd like most of you say, wouldnt he have sent his SCV out much earlier to look for BBS?
Leta just has no star sense, we all know it.
not necessarily, if leta senses something is wrong or not right based on what is happening in the game, he would scout hidden areas for proxy; it is not a time dependent event. ie: he sends scv and sees nothing in forgg base or have a weird build then he would immediately scout other proxy prone areas on the map or if leta doesnt see the normal scouting scv from forgg then he would suspect forgg is using scvs for other tricks such as proxy thus responding by sending scv directly to proxy prone areas.
On June 06 2009 23:46 OreoBoi wrote: lol does anyone think KT might be trying to not overwork Flash? If they sent out Flash, there would be shouts of FLASH IS OVERWORKED ZOMFG CHILD LABOUR! KTFLASHH!! If they don't send out Flash, its AHHHHH KT COACH U ARE SO STUPID!
You think the KTF coaches give a shit what is said about them on message boards?
Actually I'm pretty sure the coach did say that he's very aware of people complaining about flash getting overworked in an interview, that's why the last two trades to KT were Terrans
KeSPA's Oh Young Jin referee discussed the issue with the coaches from both sides, and after checking the tapes, concluded that Leta's behavior did not have any significant impact on the game itself and resumed the game.
this took 25 minutes??
why not just get a lie detecter?
Would take longer than 25 minutes to setup >.>
Not to mention they have to take vitals... and then calm you down... then you have to sit perfectly still and wait five minutes so your vitals are constant. Then ask sample question and THEN ask the real question.
KeSPA's Oh Young Jin referee discussed the issue with the coaches from both sides, and after checking the tapes, concluded that Leta's behavior did not have any significant impact on the game itself and resumed the game.
this took 25 minutes??
why not just get a lie detecter?
Do you know how inaccurate lie detectors are? lol.
On June 06 2009 17:41 Last Romantic wrote: Mrrrr really hard to say either way. One-way glass please -_________-
How are we supposed to get close-ups of players faces during critical moments then? D=
One-way glass ofcourse so that audience can see thru, but players doesn't. ;P But at least for me it would suck if I'd had to sit insede silent booth from where I couldn't see outside. What if there would be chaos outside and you'd know nothing about it? It must have something to do with labour protection.
This is something im thinking for a while. Finally a oportunity to say it happened.
When the players do something amazing and the crowd just cry "aaaaahhhhhhh", i think, WTF! The other player will instantly see something wrong and check everything on his base. Be it for the sound (i dont think booth is 100% sound proof) or the crowd movements.
I really believe this happened uncountable times, the players just try to hide that they reacted based on crowd behavior.
IMO the booth is completely inadequate to esports, as the crowd can spoil things that can turn a game. The one side glass is something to really considerate, not a fun joke.
Yeah, you can argue the difficult to see the players or other things, but assuring that the match is not affected by the crowd is the most important thing IMO.
hmmm i just watch the game where leta plays against flash... when u watch the sequence between 1:25-1:27 in this video,it seems like leta is taking a look at the audience....this would be the timing to move out for a center bbs isnt it? Leta vs Flash
maybe this made the coaches suspicous later on ^.-
On June 06 2009 23:46 OreoBoi wrote: lol does anyone think KT might be trying to not overwork Flash? If they sent out Flash, there would be shouts of FLASH IS OVERWORKED ZOMFG CHILD LABOUR! KTFLASHH!! If they don't send out Flash, its AHHHHH KT COACH U ARE SO STUPID!
You think the KTF coaches give a shit what is said about them on message boards?
Actually I'm pretty sure the coach did say that he's very aware of people complaining about flash getting overworked in an interview, that's why the last two trades to KT were Terrans
Being aware of the complaints, and actually caring about them are two different things. His job is to win.
On June 06 2009 23:46 OreoBoi wrote: lol does anyone think KT might be trying to not overwork Flash? If they sent out Flash, there would be shouts of FLASH IS OVERWORKED ZOMFG CHILD LABOUR! KTFLASHH!! If they don't send out Flash, its AHHHHH KT COACH U ARE SO STUPID!
You think the KTF coaches give a shit what is said about them on message boards?
Actually I'm pretty sure the coach did say that he's very aware of people complaining about flash getting overworked in an interview, that's why the last two trades to KT were Terrans
Being aware of the complaints, and actually caring about them are two different things. His job is to win.
Well, if overworking him means that he loses motivation/performs worse in individual leagues, that's not a good thing. you have to consider the future/growing your trademark.
IMHO the point of the argument is that the player who does not cheese gets an unfair advantage if he gets cheesed i.e. crowd goes wild and by elimination standardplayer X knows hes getting cheesed/proxied....
hasnt it occurred to them that since both sides have an equal situation (other than audience being to the left/right of them) then if they want to they can just play standard/non-cheese every fricking game and abuse the fact that if he gets proxied he'll get free crowdhack. Srsly, stop bitching like "omg my uber proz proxy 99 just got crowdhacked" or something, especially since BOTH players get the same frigging audience....
On June 07 2009 03:12 JFKWT wrote: IMHO the point of the argument is that the player who does not cheese gets an unfair advantage if he gets cheesed i.e. crowd goes wild and by elimination standardplayer X knows hes getting cheesed/proxied....
hasnt it occurred to them that since both sides have an equal situation (other than audience being to the left/right of them) then if they want to they can just play standard/non-cheese every fricking game and abuse the fact that if he gets proxied he'll get free crowdhack. Srsly, stop bitching like "omg my uber proz proxy 99 just got crowdhacked" or something, especially since BOTH players get the same frigging audience....
Thats the lamest thing I've heard. Don't cheese, because the crowd will betray you?
On June 06 2009 17:40 cUrsOr wrote: leta did look pretty nervous though. lol. he must hate kespa more than anyone. i think he was ready to run.
haha poor leta
also the whole audience = cheating has been considered a lot... they need to fix up the studio.
but im sure that there are players out there who've cheated before using the audience... but I don't really see a good way around this. Cus it would be so weird to be in that little space by yourself unable to see or hear anything form the outside...
Has anyone ever thought of the many ways you could cheat in these competitions? I'm sure they can't have cellphones on them, but what about something hidden in their clothes? Or even scarier, some hidden inside their body somewhere :X.
Yea, it sounds creepy, but a great deal of intel could be sent to a player with just a device that can vibrate (so only the player can hear/feel it).
1 Vibrate early game means cheese is coming. When the opponent gets his tech after you lose your scout, 2 buzzes for Reaver Sair, 1 buzz for storm tech, etc. Do they check for these things?
On June 07 2009 03:37 Rakanishu2 wrote: Has anyone ever thought of the many ways you could cheat in these competitions? I'm sure they can't have cellphones on them, but what about something hidden in their clothes? Or even scarier, some hidden inside their body somewhere :X.
Yea, it sounds creepy, but a great deal of intel could be sent to a player with just a device that can vibrate (so only the player can hear/feel it).
1 Vibrate early game means cheese is coming. When the opponent gets his tech after you lose your scout, 2 buzzes for Reaver Sair, 1 buzz for storm tech, etc. Do they check for these things?
I think the refs are supose to pat each player down before entering the booth to prevent stuff like that from happening
On June 07 2009 03:37 Rakanishu2 wrote: Has anyone ever thought of the many ways you could cheat in these competitions? I'm sure they can't have cellphones on them, but what about something hidden in their clothes? Or even scarier, some hidden inside their body somewhere :X.
Yea, it sounds creepy, but a great deal of intel could be sent to a player with just a device that can vibrate (so only the player can hear/feel it).
1 Vibrate early game means cheese is coming. When the opponent gets his tech after you lose your scout, 2 buzzes for Reaver Sair, 1 buzz for storm tech, etc. Do they check for these things?
It's in KeSPA rules: All players are checked with a metal detector and patted down, to make sure they only bring their mouse and keyboard into the booth.
On June 07 2009 03:37 Rakanishu2 wrote: Has anyone ever thought of the many ways you could cheat in these competitions? I'm sure they can't have cellphones on them, but what about something hidden in their clothes? Or even scarier, some hidden inside their body somewhere :X.
Yea, it sounds creepy, but a great deal of intel could be sent to a player with just a device that can vibrate (so only the player can hear/feel it).
1 Vibrate early game means cheese is coming. When the opponent gets his tech after you lose your scout, 2 buzzes for Reaver Sair, 1 buzz for storm tech, etc. Do they check for these things?
I think the refs are supose to pat each player down before entering the booth to prevent stuff like that from happening
On June 06 2009 17:53 konadora wrote: It's like when SKT1 sent out players like Best and TheZerg for ace match.
Nope, this is way worse than any instance I can recall of T1 sending BeSt or Thezerg: a) Terran map b) fOrGG lost to Leta the last time they played - in the ace game of KT's last match vs Hite c) Flash just beat Leta with a ridiculous comeback d) Flash is clearly superior to fOrGG in all matchups, but especially TvT
hell sair and shine are probably better than forgg right now
On June 06 2009 17:56 Rostam wrote: I really don't see why they can't just have one-way glass..
There is no such thing as one way glass. The way one way mirrors work is that one side is very bright and the other is very dark. If they did this they would have to do away with all the lights outside the booth.
On June 07 2009 04:21 MasterReY wrote: ... whats up with the extreme Kespa hate???
Ofc they fucked up big time in the past and its ok to dislike them in general, but in this case Kespa did NOTHING which is bad.
It was the Coach who wanted a pause. Kespa didn't even thought about it without the coach. So come on, have some manners.
This gentleman holds a great point.
I recalled the KTF coach ask for a time almost right after he suspect Leta looking for a singal in the crowd. The kespa ref took too long to decide whether to ask for a pause or not. The game continues and Leta defended ForGG's proxy cheese prefectly. THEN the kespa ref ask for a pause...
If the kespa ref had ask for the pause anytime before both players' armies engage, starting a new game is very legitmate...
On June 07 2009 04:21 MasterReY wrote: ... whats up with the extreme Kespa hate???
Ofc they fucked up big time in the past and its ok to dislike them in general, but in this case Kespa did NOTHING which is bad.
It was the Coach who wanted a pause. Kespa didn't even thought about it without the coach. So come on, have some manners.
Uhhh...did you read the thread?
On June 06 2009 17:43 JWD wrote: Once again, KeSPA's lack of useful rules manages to unnecessarily interfere with an important game. Here's basically what I said in the LR thread:
The ref should have let the game play out, then reviewed the footage, then decided whether a regame or DQ was warranted. Coaches should absolutely not be able to inspire game pauses (this puts too much power in the hands of coaches and is unfair to the player who has the momentum in the set) - the ref himself has to see something warranting a pause.
The lesson we've learned is that if you want to give your man some time to mellow out in the booth after a rough mistake, just go complain of foul play.
On June 06 2009 18:06 JWD wrote: Honestly, it's just pathetic that a coach complaining during a game is a completely foreign situation for a KeSPA ref to find himself in. This incident is on the most fundamental level of sports conflict resolution: opposing team makes an unsubstantiated claim during an ongoing match/game. I really can't believe that KeSPA didn't have a procedure for addressing this, and also that the path the ref chose (pausing the game) was clearly wrong.
I guess there is a silver lining: all of these incidents might force KeSPA to adopt some useful rules about how to deal with in-match disputes to go along with all of their useless bullshit about what players can and cannot type during a game.
On June 06 2009 17:56 Rostam wrote: I really don't see why they can't just have one-way glass..
There is no such thing as one way glass. The way one way mirrors work is that one side is very bright and the other is very dark. If they did this they would have to do away with all the lights outside the booth.
On June 06 2009 17:56 Rostam wrote: I really don't see why they can't just have one-way glass..
There is no such thing as one way glass. The way one way mirrors work is that one side is very bright and the other is very dark. If they did this they would have to do away with all the lights outside the booth.
you could just have lights inside the booth specifically to shine on the glass. Enough glare should be produced that you couldn't see out.
On June 06 2009 17:56 Rostam wrote: I really don't see why they can't just have one-way glass..
There is no such thing as one way glass. The way one way mirrors work is that one side is very bright and the other is very dark. If they did this they would have to do away with all the lights outside the booth.
you could just have lights inside the booth specifically to shine on the glass. Enough glare should be produced that you couldn't see out.
but then their monitors would have terrible glare as well
On June 06 2009 17:43 JWD wrote: Once again, KeSPA's lack of useful rules manages to unnecessarily interfere with an important game. Here's basically what I said in the LR thread:
The ref should have let the game play out, then reviewed the footage, then decided whether a regame or DQ was warranted. Coaches should absolutely not be able to inspire game pauses (this puts too much power in the hands of coaches and is unfair to the player who has the momentum in the set) - the ref himself has to see something warranting a pause.
The lesson we've learned is that if you want to give your man some time to mellow out in the booth after a rough mistake, just go complain of foul play.
On June 06 2009 18:06 JWD wrote: Honestly, it's just pathetic that a coach complaining during a game is a completely foreign situation for a KeSPA ref to find himself in. This incident is on the most fundamental level of sports conflict resolution: opposing team makes an unsubstantiated claim during an ongoing match/game. I really can't believe that KeSPA didn't have a procedure for addressing this, and also that the path the ref chose (pausing the game) was clearly wrong.
I guess there is a silver lining: all of these incidents might force KeSPA to adopt some useful rules about how to deal with in-match disputes to go along with all of their useless bullshit about what players can and cannot type during a game.
Ok yeah i didn't read all 7 pages, thats right. You have a point. Coaches shouldn't be allowed to force a pause in such a situation.
On June 06 2009 17:43 JWD wrote: Once again, KeSPA's lack of useful rules manages to unnecessarily interfere with an important game. Here's basically what I said in the LR thread:
The ref should have let the game play out, then reviewed the footage, then decided whether a regame or DQ was warranted. Coaches should absolutely not be able to inspire game pauses (this puts too much power in the hands of coaches and is unfair to the player who has the momentum in the set) - the ref himself has to see something warranting a pause.
The lesson we've learned is that if you want to give your man some time to mellow out in the booth after a rough mistake, just go complain of foul play.
On June 06 2009 18:06 JWD wrote: Honestly, it's just pathetic that a coach complaining during a game is a completely foreign situation for a KeSPA ref to find himself in. This incident is on the most fundamental level of sports conflict resolution: opposing team makes an unsubstantiated claim during an ongoing match/game. I really can't believe that KeSPA didn't have a procedure for addressing this, and also that the path the ref chose (pausing the game) was clearly wrong.
I guess there is a silver lining: all of these incidents might force KeSPA to adopt some useful rules about how to deal with in-match disputes to go along with all of their useless bullshit about what players can and cannot type during a game.
I don't know, you're really the only one who seems so hardcore about this. If a coach has possible evidence of cheating, he should be able to request a pause at any time during the game. There is no point in letting a game proceed when there is a suspicion of illegitimacy around it.
On June 07 2009 05:26 Centric wrote: Is there a reason they don't use mirrored glass for the booths? It would completely eliminate the ability to cheat from looking at the audience.
If that was me I wouldn't want mirrored glass because I don't need to see how ugly I am while playing Starcraft =P I think I'm pretty ugly too, I mean can you imagine, hmm who are some ugly progamers.... lol
On June 07 2009 05:26 Centric wrote: Is there a reason they don't use mirrored glass for the booths? It would completely eliminate the ability to cheat from looking at the audience.
It's so Jaedong doesn't jizz in his pants when he looks at himself :O
On June 07 2009 05:26 Centric wrote: Is there a reason they don't use mirrored glass for the booths? It would completely eliminate the ability to cheat from looking at the audience.
It's so Jaedong doesn't jizz in his pants when he looks at himself :O
On June 07 2009 05:26 Centric wrote: Is there a reason they don't use mirrored glass for the booths? It would completely eliminate the ability to cheat from looking at the audience.
If that was me I wouldn't want mirrored glass because I don't need to see how ugly I am while playing Starcraft =P I think I'm pretty ugly too, I mean can you imagine, hmm who are some ugly progamers.... lol
On June 07 2009 06:09 CharlieMurphy wrote: lol if any pro match was ever cheated its where july did the hatchery crash bug.
what is the hatchery crash bug?
As far as I can remember in previous versions of SC if you cancel a hatch in the making just before it gets destroyed, BW crashes and drops you to desktop screen... On topic- I think the KT's coaches are out of their mind to request a pause and to claim that Leta cheated. Stopping the game totally broke forGG's pace. Scouting proxy rushes happens all the time, just watch some ZvT game of JD, he never ever misses a hidden rax or factory. The building placement was not clever at all, if you want to actually hide the factories, do like Bisu vs JangBi. Study the scouting paths and construct the buildings outside of them.
On June 07 2009 04:21 MasterReY wrote: ... whats up with the extreme Kespa hate???
Ofc they fucked up big time in the past and its ok to dislike them in general, but in this case Kespa did NOTHING which is bad.
It was the Coach who wanted a pause. Kespa didn't even thought about it without the coach. So come on, have some manners.
This gentleman holds a great point.
I recalled the KTF coach ask for a time almost right after he suspect Leta looking for a singal in the crowd. The kespa ref took too long to decide whether to ask for a pause or not. The game continues and Leta defended ForGG's proxy cheese prefectly. THEN the kespa ref ask for a pause...
If the kespa ref had ask for the pause anytime before both players' armies engage, starting a new game is very legitmate...
Ah, I didn't have the opportunity to watch the game, and apparently I missed that part. I didn't know the ref took so long, my bad. [/defend KeSPA] [KeSPA ref hate]
Not 100% fully up to date, but it gives you a good idea. Whenever there is live SC going on you will see it right below the calendar at the top left of the site. Then just check the Tourneys & Leagues forum for the associated thread, the first post should say how you can watch that event.
doesnt gomtv have one sided glass? In the scforall video of Idra before his gom game I think artosis goes inside the booth. So if gom has good booths....
On June 07 2009 07:03 mcgriddle wrote: doesnt gomtv have one sided glass? In the scforall video of Idra before his gom game I think artosis goes inside the booth. So if gom has good booths....
I thought you could see out of that. Maybe Idra can answer?
On June 07 2009 07:03 mcgriddle wrote: doesnt gomtv have one sided glass? In the scforall video of Idra before his gom game I think artosis goes inside the booth. So if gom has good booths....
I thought you could see out of that. Maybe Idra can answer?
Doesn't matter anyway because gom studio is always empty anyway as its more focused on broadcasting on tv/internet. So IF they would have onesided glass that would be WOW, gom > all.
On June 07 2009 02:17 sukila wrote: hmmm i just watch the game where leta plays against flash... when u watch the sequence between 1:25-1:27 in this video,it seems like leta is taking a look at the audience....this would be the timing to move out for a center bbs isnt it? Leta vs Flash
maybe this made the coaches suspicous later on ^.-
On June 07 2009 07:03 mcgriddle wrote: doesnt gomtv have one sided glass? In the scforall video of Idra before his gom game I think artosis goes inside the booth. So if gom has good booths....
I thought you could see out of that. Maybe Idra can answer?
Doesn't matter anyway because gom studio is always empty anyway as its more focused on broadcasting on tv/internet. So IF they would have onesided glass that would be WOW, gom > all.
its only empty for the 128 64 32 etc because theres games that are going to be onesieded i.e Flash/Jd/Bisu vs some scrub that no one wants to waste time watching
Ok finally watching the vod and nothing looks that weird. Isn't it normal to scout cross spot first after 14cc? I guess he does peek at the crowd at 2:38 which is near first rax timing... And he peeked at the crowd at 1:27 during his match against Flash. And he looked really nervous / guilty during the pause period. And if he is looking at the crowd during the two short periods he is on screen at the beginning of the game during this PL match, he must look at the crowd pretty often. And I don't see other players doing that as far as I can remember, though I haven't paid as close attention to it as I will in the future. One ironic thing I haven't seen anyone bring up is that fOrGG got DQed from a televised match once for using a banned glitch to cheese someone; I think it was Kal.
I wish the coaches had started getting pissed, taken off their jackets and ties, and gotten into the booths themselves to settle it the "old-fashioned" way. More yelling, pointing, and angry glances needed too.
if anyone here follows cs, this reminds of that ninja defuse spawn almost had during cpl (i think?) but the other team figured out it was going on because everyone around him was going crazy while he was defusing
Not suprising. Funny that it took this long to make an announcement.
There are many ways to cheat. Before the sound booth, you could hear certain noise in the audience when you are expecting a early cheese. If Leta was caught glancing out in the audience then he should get whatever punishment the rule allow. There is no reason to be looking into the crowd during the game. If there is no rules against it then too bad for KTF.
Someone else mention that Leta was doing the same thing too in the Flash game.
It could be said that both players can use the audience to their advantage, but in the cheese situation, it will be hurt the player going for the early cheese than the person defending it. It would kill a lot of the early strategy part of Starcraft.
On June 06 2009 20:33 Hammy wrote: Good job kona : ) At least Kespa didn't make an insane decision this time. Although, of course, if leta had indeed cheated he should have been disqualified. The booths clearly need some changes : )
I disagree with this. Its not the player's fault that they can see the audience. Is he not suppose to react appropriately when he realizes a proxy is occurring? There is no way you can put blame on the players for this.
On June 07 2009 08:27 Pyrrhuloxia wrote: Ok finally watching the vod and nothing looks that weird. Isn't it normal to scout cross spot first after 14cc? I guess he does peek at the crowd at 2:38 which is near first rax timing... And he peeked at the crowd at 1:27 during his match against Flash. And he looked really nervous / guilty during the pause period. And if he is looking at the crowd during the two short periods he is on screen at the beginning of the game during this PL match, he must look at the crowd pretty often. And I don't see other players doing that as far as I can remember, though I haven't paid as close attention to it as I will in the future. One ironic thing I haven't seen anyone bring up is that fOrGG got DQed from a televised match once for using a banned glitch to cheese someone; I think it was Kal.
i think the same. And the KTF coach was in the audience, maybe he or someone in ktf team saw something more...
On June 07 2009 07:03 mcgriddle wrote: doesnt gomtv have one sided glass? In the scforall video of Idra before his gom game I think artosis goes inside the booth. So if gom has good booths....
I thought you could see out of that. Maybe Idra can answer?
you could see out the front, i wasnt paying much attention but i think the lighting made it really hard to see the audience the sound proofing was horrible though
Call me ignorant but I always assumed, and I think many others did as well, that the players could not see outside the booths.
I mean, this is a shocking revelation. Leta's incredibly suspicious eyes certainly don't seem to help the matter. I've never seen a programer eye the crowd like that, which is why I assumed the glass was one-way before.
On June 07 2009 12:52 Verilan wrote: Call me ignorant but I always assumed, and I think many others did as well, that the players could not see outside the booths.
I mean, this is a shocking revelation.
I agree with you. I mean, "star sense" has been made a little less valid by this.
Watching the video now, and I don't know if it's fair to say only Leta was looking nervous. To me it seemed like everyone in the room was nervous, which isn't much of a surprise considering how kespa is destroying everyone in 2009.
On June 07 2009 07:03 mcgriddle wrote: doesnt gomtv have one sided glass? In the scforall video of Idra before his gom game I think artosis goes inside the booth. So if gom has good booths....
I thought you could see out of that. Maybe Idra can answer?
you could see out the front, i wasnt paying much attention but i think the lighting made it really hard to see the audience the sound proofing was horrible though
I've always wondered why they don't do this all the time... especially in high-profile or popular matches, the audience will act shocked if someone does a proxy or rush, and if you just take a quick glance you might be able to guess that a cheesy build is coming, at least, and thus double your scouting effort.
I remember during the beginning of the game, Leta did look like he looked too much to his left, maybe towards the audience. But what would the audience have done that told him there was a proxy factory?
just wondering not sure if anybody said this yet but why wont they like paint the mirrors in the inside? like the inside you can only see yourself in the mirror and have the outside mirror be able to see the inside so the crowd can see them but the player cannot see the crowd?
On June 07 2009 15:57 Darkmole wrote: just wondering not sure if anybody said this yet but why wont they like paint the mirrors in the inside? like the inside you can only see yourself in the mirror and have the outside mirror be able to see the inside so the crowd can see them but the player cannot see the crowd?
Coach Lee Ji Hoon requests pause over Leta's suspicious behavior that he thinks is an act of intention of cheating
The ace match between KT and Hite was paused upon request by the coach.
The incident occurred in the ace match, which was between KT's forGG and Hite's Leta.
Leta went for no barracks expo, while forGG went proxy 2 factories in the middle of the map, which Leta scouted with his SCV and was able to defend appropriately.
Following that, coach Lee Ji Hoon accused that Leta glanced at the audience and realised what had happened, and hence was able to act appropriately and gain the good spots for easy defense.
KeSPA's Oh Young Jin referee discussed the issue with the coaches from both sides, and after checking the tapes, concluded that Leta's behavior did not have any significant impact on the game itself and resumed the game.
Source: Fomos.kr
even if Leta looked at the audience and determined cheese was afoot, the booths should be built such that the players can not see through them
On June 07 2009 15:51 Kinky wrote: [image loading]
I remember during the beginning of the game, Leta did look like he looked too much to his left, maybe towards the audience. But what would the audience have done that told him there was a proxy factory?
it's probably easy to notice a bored audience versus an excited audience in the very early game
Leta is OGN's star player. I wonder how people would had reacted if it was Flash, Bisu, or Jaedong doing the cheese and the person cheating was some unliked progamer. Hell would be raised
On June 07 2009 14:35 0xDEADBEEF wrote: I've always wondered why they don't do this all the time... especially in high-profile or popular matches, the audience will act shocked if someone does a proxy or rush, and if you just take a quick glance you might be able to guess that a cheesy build is coming, at least, and thus double your scouting effort.
Because this is cheating? They've already made it harder to ear-hack, but apparently that's not enough.
On June 07 2009 14:35 0xDEADBEEF wrote: I've always wondered why they don't do this all the time... especially in high-profile or popular matches, the audience will act shocked if someone does a proxy or rush, and if you just take a quick glance you might be able to guess that a cheesy build is coming, at least, and thus double your scouting effort.
Because this is cheating? They've already made it harder to ear-hack, but apparently that's not enough.
Might as well even have a mole in the audience that does hand signals or some other kind of signal for specific key points of the build.
On June 08 2009 14:41 mucker wrote: if i lived in korea i'd bring a green bay packers cheesehead hat to the matches and put it on when a player was cheesing.
Instead of having to install expensive one-way mirrors, they could just, you know, angle the progamers' chairs or booths in a way that they can't see the audience as well. They don't need to have their backs completely to the audience, just enough in a way that they can't visibly make out any signs or signals.
On June 08 2009 14:41 mucker wrote: if i lived in korea i'd bring a green bay packers cheesehead hat to the matches and put it on when a player was cheesing.
On June 08 2009 17:36 soudo wrote: Instead of having to install expensive one-way mirrors, they could just, you know, angle the progamers' chairs or booths in a way that they can't see the audience as well. They don't need to have their backs completely to the audience, just enough in a way that they can't visibly make out any signs or signals.
Well I'm sure it's also pretty important for the spectators to be able to see the progamers expressions (at least the spectators who have front row seats). And I doubt installing one-way mirrors is really that costly considering the scale of starcraft investements.
They should let the players play somewhere else (behind a concrete wall, on an asteroid) and then display holographic images to the crowds in the stadia. Best way of getting the public to see the gamers, without exposing the latter to the first. Sound-proofing has it's limits, and I could imagine playing a BO5 in a sound-proofed, mirrored cabin not to be the most conducive to performance.
On June 08 2009 14:41 mucker wrote: if i lived in korea i'd bring a green bay packers cheesehead hat to the matches and put it on when a player was cheesing.
On June 08 2009 18:23 nepeta wrote: They should let the players play somewhere else (behind a concrete wall, on an asteroid) and then display holographic images to the crowds in the stadia. Best way of getting the public to see the gamers, without exposing the latter to the first. Sound-proofing has it's limits, and I could imagine playing a BO5 in a sound-proofed, mirrored cabin not to be the most conducive to performance.
Agreed, playing when you can't see anything outside may get unnerving, especially if any of the players are claustrophobic. I personally like the idea of the raised booths and angling them just a little more so that it would be more difficult to look into the crowd for the players, but the crowd could still see their faces. You could also just have screens with the players' faces on camera.
On June 08 2009 14:41 mucker wrote: if i lived in korea i'd bring a green bay packers cheesehead hat to the matches and put it on when a player was cheesing.
On June 08 2009 14:41 mucker wrote: if i lived in korea i'd bring a green bay packers cheesehead hat to the matches and put it on when a player was cheesing.
On June 08 2009 18:23 nepeta wrote: They should let the players play somewhere else (behind a concrete wall, on an asteroid) and then display holographic images to the crowds in the stadia. Best way of getting the public to see the gamers, without exposing the latter to the first. Sound-proofing has it's limits, and I could imagine playing a BO5 in a sound-proofed, mirrored cabin not to be the most conducive to performance.
I agree with this.
Why on earth would you have them play anywhere near the audience. I propose we have them all play on a boat in the middle of the pacific ocean for the most efficient privacy. Players will be flown out there on cooperate jets to ease transfer.
HALP can be used for any circumstance where a wave nearly overturns the boat and stops play.
I really doubt they can see much if anything anyway. If you've ever been on stage in front of a crowd before, the spotlights tend to blind you to the vast majority of it.
On June 10 2009 12:24 Biochemist wrote: I really doubt they can see much if anything anyway. If you've ever been on stage in front of a crowd before, the spotlights tend to blind you to the vast majority of it.
The points is they can see when the audience start getting on it one way mirror is the most reasonable thing and is not that expensive
On June 10 2009 12:24 Biochemist wrote: I really doubt they can see much if anything anyway. If you've ever been on stage in front of a crowd before, the spotlights tend to blind you to the vast majority of it.
The points is they can see when the audience start getting on it one way mirror is the most reasonable thing and is not that expensive
whys everyone suggest one way mirror v.v seeing themselves would probably be damn distracting, they can have one way windows without having to look at themselves lol
In ForGG's recent game against Calm it looked like he was crowdhacking too, very quick eye movement to the side looked real suspicious
On July 16 2009 03:52 ActualSteve wrote: Crowdhacking = unreliable
If the camera zooms in on BoxeR = cheer If the camera zooms in on a poster = often cheer
Idk whether or not I'd trust that audience.
well obviously it's not 'reliable' but it's still in attempts to gain an advantage unfairly, besides unless you've actually been to one we can't really concretely say how the audience is reacting, we see them like .01% of the time
EPT
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