EPTi'm sure if they wanted to rest they could o_O
[idea]Limit practice time for progamers? - Page 2
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SilentNoodle
Australia290 Posts
i'm sure if they wanted to rest they could o_O | ||
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NotJumperer
United States1371 Posts
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evanthebouncy!
United States12816 Posts
On May 29 2009 15:47 Jumperer wrote: Last time I check Nada still have 400 APM and boxer still has his same APM as before. But when you press keys on the keyboards and click 5000000 times a day and stare at the monitor for 10+ hours you are going to slowdown no matters how old or young you are. Age can have the effects, but why do players suddenly play like shit and go into a slump out of nowhere? that's right they simply played too many games and they can't play to the level they once played anymore because they burnt themselves out by playing too many games. Beside, it's not like playing for 10 hours a day is going to help you beat a talented player like flash or jaedong. Look at Idra, he should be winning every foreigner tournament since he plays more than everyone else in theory(from being a progamer in korea), BUT NO. How does a rocket reaches the top of the world? It does so by burning out. It's part of it, if you don't burn out, you'll never reach the top, but once you reach the top, afterawhile you will burn out. Sad but true. | ||
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AttackZerg
United States7702 Posts
For sure. I'm sorry jumperer but there are some things that each of those players lacked, over time the weak parts of there game became more noticable then there strong points. Why, because people can be figured out, a boxer might be great at mind fucking a zerg into an insta starleague title, and oov might be able to perfectly macro a terran economy, and savior might be able to defend with less units then seems logical but on the flipside, boxer has horrible mechanics AND has always had terrible macro, Iloveoov has always had terrible micro (of course its relative to pro gamers and at times he microed amazingly) and savior had weak macro/largearmy control. It , pro starcraft is something you just pick up and decide to get a job doing, these guys were playing 10-12 hours a day to get to a place where they could get paid for playing for those 10-12 hours a day. If bisu or jaedong get tired of being amazing, it will show, they will do worse and somebody who is working harder will shine until then the hardest working, most talented gamers deserve to win. Also flash says he plays only 20 games a day and spends most of his time thinking about game situations. 20 games, 5 games an hour is only 4 hours at twenty minutes a game, not everybody is flash or bisu. | ||
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NotJumperer
United States1371 Posts
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benjammin
United States2728 Posts
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ArvickHero
10387 Posts
Savior and Boxer both said in the bonjwa talk they stopped practicing a lot at the high points in their career, look what happened to them as a result. | ||
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baubo
China3370 Posts
I at least hope these kids are getting good advice and protection. But I sincerely doubt it. | ||
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AttackZerg
United States7702 Posts
On May 29 2009 15:57 ArvickHero wrote: Old school players got worse because they stopped practicing a lot/didn't adapt Savior and Boxer both said in the bonjwa talk they stopped practicing a lot at the high points in their career, look what happened to them as a result. If they never took time off, they wouldn't have lasted anyway. How long can you make money and play video games while you friends party,travel,get laid, ect. Even the hardest working guys on wall street need to take time to enjoy their money. Boxer and savior (of course dealing with less money) had to do the same thing. What is the point in having thousands of dollars and thousands of fans if you only know how to play starcraft. | ||
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alt.tday
United States180 Posts
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p4NDemik
United States13896 Posts
On May 29 2009 15:47 Jumperer wrote: Last time I check Nada still have 400 APM and boxer still has his same APM as before. But when you press keys on the keyboards and click 5000000 times a day and stare at the monitor for 10+ hours you are going to slowdown no matters how old or young you are. Age can have the effects, but why do players suddenly play like shit and go into a slump out of nowhere? that's right they simply played too many games and they can't play to the level they once played anymore because they burnt themselves out by playing too many games. Beside, it's not like playing for 10 hours a day is going to help you beat a talented player like flash or jaedong. Look at Idra, he should be winning every foreigner tournament since he plays more than everyone else in theory(from being a progamer in korea), BUT NO. If you don't want to watch the video I'll sum it up for you: a top level progamer instinctively makes decisions during a game. The limiting factor is how quick his reflexes are, and those usually begin to slow down around 25 years old (regardless of how much you practice). You can have fast fingers/APM, but if your reflexes are just milliseconds slower your play is going to suffer. Note: This documentary was made when XellOs was the top player at the time. | ||
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AttackZerg
United States7702 Posts
On May 29 2009 16:03 alt.tday wrote: ^ Thats the most retarded argument ever. More practice= slump. Are you stupid? In starcraft theres no such thing as a burnout. And older doesnt mean you suck more. Age has nothing to do with it. And practice is the reason Jaedong and Flash are where they are. The only reason Idra sux is cuz he's a foreigner. Ok for one you don't know anything about starcraft so do not assume to call anything I have to say stupid or even question it. Getting older means your less driven to play a video game for 10 or 12 hours a day. Are you joking me, Are You Stupid or just still a teenager. In starcraft there is such a thing as burnout, alot of the players who have retired or gotten back into form have talked about it. Best example.... [nc]...yellOw who got bored of starcraft and become a poker player/pimpdady and was never able to recover a portion of his skills, even though his teamates are swearing up and down that he is practicing, and yet still players terribly. Idra is actually on the strongest b-team in pro gaming and is far from being the worst player on that team, you not knowing anything about pro gamers really shows in this "flash and jaedong are where they are because of practice" when in a recent interview flash says he only actually plays 20 games a day which is not alot at all. No pro gamer has ever been able to stay at the top of starcraft, practicing 10 hours a day forever isn't possible over a long enough span of time, not enjoying life will eventually make you play worse and get less from your practice. | ||
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NotJumperer
United States1371 Posts
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p4NDemik
United States13896 Posts
On May 29 2009 16:18 Jumperer wrote: so it's all reflexes. Would you please re-read both your post and mine? You said: "... when you press keys on the keyboards and click 5000000 times a day and stare at the monitor for 10+ hours you are going to slowdown no matters how old or young you are." I'm saying that the slowing down is not symptomatic of 10+ hours of practicing, as you are suggesting, it is a natural process. Obviously a slump is caused by a multitude of things. A loss of motivation, a desire to explore other things in life, slower reflexes, whatever. | ||
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AttackZerg
United States7702 Posts
On May 29 2009 16:18 Jumperer wrote: so it's all reflexes. It becomes reflexes after repeating at action three thousand times or so. That is where the training comes in. Also they give of no insight into what casual gamer actually means. | ||
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alt.tday
United States180 Posts
On May 29 2009 16:15 AttackZerg wrote: Ok for one you don't know anything about starcraft so do not assume to call anything I have to say stupid or even question it. Getting older means your less driven to play a video game for 10 or 12 hours a day. Are you joking me, Are You Stupid or just still a teenager. In starcraft there is such a thing as burnout, alot of the players who have retired or gotten back into form have talked about it. Best example.... [nc]...yellOw who got bored of starcraft and become a poker player/pimpdady and was never able to recover a portion of his skills, even though his teamates are swearing up and down that he is practicing, and yet still players terribly. Idra is actually on the strongest b-team in pro gaming and is far from being the worst player on that team, you not knowing anything about pro gamers really shows in this "flash and jaedong are where they are because of practice" when in a recent interview flash says he only actually plays 20 games a day which is not alot at all. No pro gamer has ever been able to stay at the top of starcraft, practicing 10 hours a day forever isn't possible over a long enough span of time, not enjoying life will eventually make you play worse and get less from your practice. Yet in Jaedong and Bisu's latest interview they say that they're as good as they are because of insane amounts of practice. Yeah. More practice makes you better. Why do you think they practice in the first place. And to the koreans this isnt a game. Its a job. They work for 12 hours a day. If they get tired of their job and decide to move on, its their choice. Doesnt mean that practicing 12 hours a day is bad. And retiring and burnout is not the same thing. I meant that just cuz you get older doesnt mean you get worse at starcraft. If playing basketball for 10 hours a day or staying at work for 10 hours a day is possible, then so is practicing starcraft for 10 hrs a day. | ||
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Xela
Canada203 Posts
On May 29 2009 16:25 p4NDemik wrote: Would you please re-read both your post and mine? You said: "... when you press keys on the keyboards and click 5000000 times a day and stare at the monitor for 10+ hours you are going to slowdown no matters how old or young you are." I'm saying that the slowing down is not symptomatic of 10+ hours of practicing, as you are suggesting, it is a natural process. Obviously a slump is caused by a multitude of things. A loss of motivation, a desire to explore other things in life, slower reflexes, whatever. You forgot confidence  In pro-gaming, every top player is so similar that the only thing that reallly differenciate them is confidence. Starcraft is probably the only sport when the best of the best only achieve a mere 65% win percentage. How can you explain forGG winning a starleauge if his mechanic/micro is sub-par? The thing is, it's not sub-par. It's probably on the same level as every other top players, the problem is he doesn't have that confidence that alows him to pull it off every time like Jaedong for example. The difference between Jaedong or Bisu and Luxury for example is that in a game where they are behind, you are much more likely to have a comeback from bisu/jaedong than from luxury and that's only because of their mindset. When you lose that confidence (for whatever reason), you instantly slump. What do you think happened to Savior? Maybe he practiced less when he was bonjwa but the ultimate reason he slumped is because he lost that enormous confidence he had by losing 3-0 to Bisu. I mean, you don't lose your incredible tactics/micro/strategy when you lose a match 3-0 against a new build. Savior was still capable of beating every other progamer out there after his loss, but he had a doubt in his mind wich he never had before, making him hesitate maybe 0.01 second before making a move but that's enough to lose at this level of play. | ||
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AttackZerg
United States7702 Posts
Top former gamers disagree with you on that anyway but I didn't even broach that subject. Stop posting, your really bad at it. | ||
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alt.tday
United States180 Posts
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Solinren
United States2653 Posts
You can only sleep for 5 hours a day, everyday, or else someone will kick you in the balls if you overslept | ||
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