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China3334 Posts
Ro32
1.) Ro32 will adopt the format of MST which is first two games and the winners' game are separated from the losers' game and the final game of each group.
2.) Players who score 0-2 in Ro32 will drop directly to Internet cafe preliminary next season.
3.) Spots of MST from Internet cafe preliminary will cut from 24 to 20.
4.) The player with the highest KeSPA ranking of each team will get a free access to MST. (If the No.1 player of a team has already made into MST or MSL, I guess the No.2 player will take the spot.)
Ro8
1.) Ro8 bo5 games will be separated into two parts as well. e.g.
Match day 1
A vs. B game 1
C vs. D game 1
E vs. F game 1
G vs. H game 1
Match day 2
A vs. B game 2~5
C vs. D game 2~5
Match day 3
E vs. F game 2~5
G vs. H game 2~5
2.) The matchup of Ro8 will be decided by KeSPA rankings, e.g. No.1 vs No.8, No.2 vs No.7 etc.
Source: Fomos
I'd say....these are really really weird changes. KeSPA go hell! I hate the idea of cutting preliminary spots and giving free MST access. New players have less chances.
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Furthering the ideal that OSL is the more formal of the 2.
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MSL changes its system like every other tournament.
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51392 Posts
way to weird things even more, mbc.
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Splitting up bo5s is one of the worst ideas I've seen in a while. This makes no sense at all.
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Furthering the ideal that OSL is the more formal of the 2.
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sounds like complicating stuff for no reason
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On May 29 2009 14:17 Emlary wrote:
4.) The player with the highest KeSPA ranking of each team will get a free access to MST. (If the No.1 player of a team has already made into MST or MSL, I guess the No.2 player will take the spot.).
I like this one.
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Splitting the Ro8 Bo5 into two parts is silly
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United States13896 Posts
What is this crap? Seriously? Each team gets one free MST spot? Make them earn it.
Part of what makes championships special is knowing players had to endure the gauntlet that is the Offline Prelims. Take Luxury for example: he went from the Prelims all the way up to MSL champion. This is just some absolute garbage attempt to make KeSPA ranking relevant. Fuck that. This isn't American College Football and the BCS.
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WTF... game 1 on 1 day, then 2-5 on another? Why the fuck not have 5 games on a day instead of just 4?
I guess they're trying to avoid having the big finale of the series be just 1 game (if they did game 1/2 first and then 3-5), but.... 2-5 is just WTF
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51392 Posts
i initially resented the osl's decision to scrap the ODT/OSC and integrate them into the OSL (and subseqeuently the ro36 format), but now I like it (they changed it because it made following the OSL easier or something).
this though, i don't think i'll ever like.
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p4nDemik pretty much summed up my thoughts.
Thanks for the news.
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United States13143 Posts
1. Meh, I prefer the old format, but not a huge difference
2. I think this is too harsh
3. okay
4. whaaaaat?! really?! What a terrible idea, especially if the byes rollover to the next person
New Ro8: what. Why?! argh. I liked the old MSL format, this is garbage.
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Meh, looks cool to me.Hey, whatever they feel can make money. And after all, people do want to see stars. Why not give them a free pass into the MST.
The schedule change implies that apparently, no one wants to watch the same people over and over. So the entire plan is to have more people appear on TV on any given night. I like it, mainly because this favors Khan players who seem to be better when given preparation.
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Baa?21242 Posts
I guess we'll see what 4 does as a couple seasons pass, but I have a feeling it's gonna get scrapped after only one...
At least we'll see an ACE person in MSL 
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China3334 Posts
Just do well in PL and OSL then you will get a free MSL ticket 
Btw, the new MSL opening is on the way. Some random pictures from the shooting scenario.
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United States12607 Posts
fuck...splitting up Bo5s now????????
uyghhhhhhh
and wait...round of EIGHT matches are determined by KeSPA rank? That means there will be no bracket........
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this is ugly and terrible
i hate the mst format and was hoping they wouldnt do it for the actual msl
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United States13896 Posts
On May 29 2009 14:33 baubo wrote:
Meh, looks cool to me.Hey, whatever they feel can make money. And after all, people do want to see stars. Why not give them a free pass into the MST.
You say this now, but don't come complaining when a slumping veteran (I'm looking at you sAviOr) plays like absolute refuse in the next MST and basically wastes a spot that could have been used by an upstart youngster who actually has refreshing/interesting play. This move stinks so badly they're going to have to pass out respirators at the next MST. Any time some organization takes important decisions out of the hands of the players it is a bad day for the game/sport/whatever.
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I hate the breaking up of BO5 but I love the idea of giving free MST access to highest Kespa ranking players  Less random no-names in tournaments I guess
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United States12607 Posts
On May 29 2009 14:42 AzureEye wrote:I hate the breaking up of BO5 but I love the idea of giving free MST access to highest Kespa ranking players Less random no-names in tournaments I guess
Every "highest KeSPA ranking player" was once a "random no-name". This rule change punishes up-and-coming talent - younger, generally more motivated and skilled players - thereby killing game quality.
And let me say something about splitting up BoX series: it's fucking awful. Separating the conclusion of a series from its beginning by enough practice days for a player to
a) adjust to a certain strategy or style and
b) re-compose himself
punishes innovative players and mentally tough players and decreases the utility of exciting new builds and playstyles immensely. Imagine if GGPlay had had a week to react to Fantasy's mech build in the middle of their OSL Ro4 series - Fantasy may not have even been able to win one Bo5 on a build that revolutionized the Terran versus Zerg matchup.
The MSL's organizers may feel that separating series increases suspense - it may, but at the expense of every exciting series-long storyline. A comeback is much less exciting if it occurs across two days of play separated by a week of downtime (is it even a comeback?), and a sweep is much less of a statement if its last wins are delayed.
Basically, splitting BoX series is bad for innovation (bad for gamers) and bad for drama (bad for fans). When the series is Bo3, both of these effects are limited enough to be tolerable (and it's less likely a player will prepare an earth-shattering strategy for a Bo3 series, for example) but across a Bo5 series - the ultimate test in professional SC - this split will be just awful. I'm really disappointed in the MSL for making this format change in particular.
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On May 29 2009 14:41 p4NDemik wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2009 14:33 baubo wrote:
Meh, looks cool to me.Hey, whatever they feel can make money. And after all, people do want to see stars. Why not give them a free pass into the MST. You say this now, but don't come complaining when a slumping veteran (I'm looking at you sAviOr) plays like absolute refuse in the next MST and basically wastes a spot that could have been used by an upstart youngster who actually has refreshing/interesting play. This move stinks so badly they're going to have to pass out respirators at the next MST. Any time some organization takes important decisions out of the hands of the players it is a bad day for the game/sport/whatever.
Consider how many people would prefer to watch old schoolers like Nada/Savior/Boxer/Oov/etc. etc. etc. over "young upstarts", myself included, I'm thinking MBC is making the right decision.
I'm not saying this is fair or right, I'm just saying it would lead to more of the people I'd like to watch on TV.
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On May 29 2009 14:45 JWD wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2009 14:42 AzureEye wrote:I hate the breaking up of BO5 but I love the idea of giving free MST access to highest Kespa ranking players Less random no-names in tournaments I guess Every "highest KeSPA ranking player" was once a "random no-name". This rule change punishes up-and-coming talent - younger, generally more motivated and skilled players - thereby killing game quality.
True but I'd rather see a no-name talented young player make a big upset on Proleagues than in MSL where the favorite player is eliminated.
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Splitting up the Bo5's is ridiculous. Who on earth would come up with that idea...
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konadora
Singapore66131 Posts
Uh... they should stop screwing up MSL. Not that it was that good in the first place but...
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United States13896 Posts
On May 29 2009 14:47 baubo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2009 14:41 p4NDemik wrote:On May 29 2009 14:33 baubo wrote:
Meh, looks cool to me.Hey, whatever they feel can make money. And after all, people do want to see stars. Why not give them a free pass into the MST. You say this now, but don't come complaining when a slumping veteran (I'm looking at you sAviOr) plays like absolute refuse in the next MST and basically wastes a spot that could have been used by an upstart youngster who actually has refreshing/interesting play. This move stinks so badly they're going to have to pass out respirators at the next MST. Any time some organization takes important decisions out of the hands of the players it is a bad day for the game/sport/whatever. Consider how many people would prefer to watch old schoolers like Nada/Savior/Boxer/Oov/etc. etc. etc. over "young upstarts", myself included, I'm thinking MBC is making the right decision. I'm not saying this is fair or right, I'm just saying it would lead to more of the people I'd like to watch on TV.
I'd love to see XellOs out there, but I live with not seeing him because I know the quality of his games would be absolutely horrid compared to a younger player. The determining factor when talking about making these kind of changes should be game quality, not attempting to give undeserving vets a free ride.
You're right, this will get them better ratings for the MST. But they're selling out and there's no way around it.
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On May 29 2009 14:33 baubo wrote:
Meh, looks cool to me.Hey, whatever they feel can make money. And after all, people do want to see stars. Why not give them a free pass into the MST.
The schedule change implies that apparently, no one wants to watch the same people over and over. So the entire plan is to have more people appear on TV on any given night. I like it, mainly because this favors Khan players who seem to be better when given preparation.
Good calls on both points.
I think both of those changes will boost ratings for next season, but if these rules seem to hokey it might damage the prestige of the MSL, and thus hurt their long-term business.
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JIJIyO
Canada1957 Posts
This is totally retarded. Splitting up Bo5s is soooooo stupid. I hated how OSL/MSL (can't remember which) split them up for the survivor tournament. This is just ridiculous. And as much as I would love for my favourite players to already have a spot, there's really no point if they play bad, but get a freebie.
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I don't think these changes are nearly as bad as everyone's making them out to be.
Also, splitting up BO5's changes the quality and mentality of the first game a lot - it's not so bad. The semis and finals will still be on one day....
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Splitting up all these matches including the Bo5 gives an advantage to players who play better with a lot of preparation.
Also, the format is so confusing now.
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wtf splitting up the Bo5s is the worst idea ever
no more epic series like Jaedong vs. Flash, FBH vs. Savior, or Kal vs. forGG
at least not in the same sense
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Don't really care about the splitting up of the bo5.
The Kespa ranking stuff seems pretty interesting, however I'm not sure how I feel about it yet...
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This is stupid as hell. I think the way they're splitting up the Ro8 matches is the dumbest part of this, but it's so hard to choose.
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Bring back the losers bracket!!
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Valhalla18444 Posts
the seeding process for kespa shit aint bad man, it goes hand-in-hand with players losing in the round of 32 dropping immediately back to offlines as a safety net for truly great players having a bad day or whatever. top-ranked kespa players have exceedingly busy schedules, this is just a more forgiving seeding system. it's not a big deal.
here's the highest current kespa ranked players for each team, tell me you aren't in favor of seeing their overall consistency rewarded in some way when much of the time the offlines are so unpredictable
KTF: Luxury (don't pretend this guy doesn't get his shit together real fast, he's always been very on and off)
SKT T1: Bisu
Oz: Jaedong
Samsung: Stork (double 5pool anyone?)
Sparkyz: Leta
Stars: Zero
Soul: Hwasin
estro: UPMAGIC, COME ON GUYS UPMAGIC
MBC: light and sea at various times, usually sea but it's light right now
Fox: Mind
CJ: Iris
AIR FORCE ACE: ANYTIME
you don't want a player list like this to be a GUARANTEED SEED in the round of 32? WHY?
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Valhalla18444 Posts
i mean fuck we are guaranteed one air force ace player in the round of 32 and people are complaining
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Heh, "Zero" and "consistency". I had actually forgotten he passed Free in the Kespa rankings.
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United States13896 Posts
Personally, I'll take the unpredictability of the Offlines. These days I have more and more confidence that we're going to get at least one ACE player making it through the Offlines most seasons.
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On May 29 2009 15:02 Polemarch wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2009 14:33 baubo wrote:
Meh, looks cool to me.Hey, whatever they feel can make money. And after all, people do want to see stars. Why not give them a free pass into the MST.
The schedule change implies that apparently, no one wants to watch the same people over and over. So the entire plan is to have more people appear on TV on any given night. I like it, mainly because this favors Khan players who seem to be better when given preparation. Good calls on both points. I think both of those changes will boost ratings for next season, but if these rules seem to hokey it might damage the prestige of the MSL, and thus hurt their long-term business.
There have already been a few comments regarding this in the thread. Which got me curious. I'm not familiar with Korean culture, but how does this sort of stuff affect MSL's prestige?
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nothing wrong wit old format - -
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On May 29 2009 16:05 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
i mean fuck we are guaranteed one air force ace player in the round of 32 and people are complaining
lol this =DDD
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On May 29 2009 16:05 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
i mean fuck we are guaranteed one air force ace player in the round of 32 and people are complaining
You got it wrong. They are not even guaranteed a spot in the R32 of the MSL. They are guaranteed a spot in the MST, the survivor tournament. So it's not like they get a free pass into the MSL. Kind of a halfway thing here where they still need to "earn" their spot in the MSL by clearing a tough round robin but they skip the offline prelims where there is a chance of an upset based on the sheer number of games that you need to win in a row.
I totally agree with FakeSteve here. Although I don't like the splitting of the BO5, I think giving the top KeSPA seed from every team to the MST (not MSL) is an excellent move. I think this gives the best players a better chance to qualify rather than rewarding washed up vets since the washed up vets will most likely not even be the #1 ranked player on their team anyway.
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Splitting up Bo5's is gonna be weird. The MSL having Bo5's from the round of 8 (pretty sure that's when it starts) and not just Bo3 like the OSL is one things I actually enjoy more about the tournament. However, I actually think the entry into MST based on Kespa rank might be a good thing since you've got good players who don't have to deal with getting stuck in the offlines for seasons on end (Hi Best).
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seed Nada that's all i care about
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On May 29 2009 14:52 konadora wrote:
Uh... they should stop screwing up MSL. Not that it was that good in the first place but...
I don't understand why it's become popular lately on TL to bash on the MSL. I know the OSL has been more prestigious forever but it seems like only in the past year or so that it turned into common knowledge on TL. Now everyone is quick to bash on MSL when convenient, or to make arguments about 1 OSL = 2 MSL or other ridiculous stuff.
I mean come on, none of these changes were really THAT bad. People are just biased against change from the MSL. When the new MST system came out a month ago a lot of people jumped on it and look how that's turned out. If the OSL made changes like this people would be saying stuff like "props to the OSL for innovating and rewarding top Kespa seeds while the MSL lets them die". Fakesteve put it best - take a look at the Kespa list ... it's really not that big of a deal. Remember when Jaedong got Han'd and BackHo'd out of OSL? Remember when Stork was double 5-pooled? Come on.
Good young new players will still find their way into MST like they always have before - it's all they have to practice for anyway and truly great players have never had any problem breaking into the scene.
P.S. I'm not trying to pick on konadora one bit - just semi-randomly picked an anti-MSL post. You're one of the greatest things to happen to TL .. thanks for all that you do.
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On May 29 2009 14:22 ZBiR wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2009 14:17 Emlary wrote:
4.) The player with the highest KeSPA ranking of each team will get a free access to MST. (If the No.1 player of a team has already made into MST or MSL, I guess the No.2 player will take the spot.). I like this one.
Does this include ACE?
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I think the first one is annoying, but i can live with it. Same with splitting up the best-of-5s in round of 8. Rule four, however, is just lame. Teams were just getting upset that they wern't getting any publicity during the starleagues and apperently MBC agreed and thought that this broken rule would fix all that. Players who didn't make it in the first time are not magically going to do better just because they get a free pass.
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Everything else doesn't matter to me but splitting up bo5's is a fucking joke.
Seriously that is the HARDEST moment of any starcraft players career, they should be sitting there sweating it out back to back. That is where stars are made.
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On May 29 2009 14:45 JWD wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2009 14:42 AzureEye wrote:I hate the breaking up of BO5 but I love the idea of giving free MST access to highest Kespa ranking players Less random no-names in tournaments I guess Every "highest KeSPA ranking player" was once a "random no-name". This rule change punishes up-and-coming talent - younger, generally more motivated and skilled players - thereby killing game quality. And let me say something about splitting up BoX series: it's fucking awful. Separating the conclusion of a series from its beginning by enough practice days for a player to a) adjust to a certain strategy or style and b) re-compose himself punishes innovative players and mentally tough players and decreases the utility of exciting new builds and playstyles immensely. Imagine if GGPlay had had a week to react to Fantasy's mech build in the middle of their OSL Ro4 series - Fantasy may not have even been able to win one Bo5 on a build that revolutionized the Terran versus Zerg matchup. The MSL's organizers may feel that separating series increases suspense - it may, but at the expense of every exciting series-long storyline. A comeback is much less exciting if it occurs across two days of play separated by a week of downtime (is it even a comeback?), and a sweep is much less of a statement if its last wins are delayed. Basically, splitting BoX series is bad for innovation (bad for gamers) and bad for drama (bad for fans). When the series is Bo3, both of these effects are limited enough to be tolerable (and it's less likely a player will prepare an earth-shattering strategy for a Bo3 series, for example) but across a Bo5 series - the ultimate test in professional SC - this split will be just awful. I'm really disappointed in the MSL for making this format change in particular.
I'd actually argue that splitting up the series creates more innovation as it gives time for the winner/loser to analyze their opponent's strategy. That means that each match has a lot more analysis and thought put into it. To me, this advances the metagame strategy--"innovation" if you will--a lot more than a consecutive game series. On the same token, the series becomes less about stamina and more about actual gameplay. Granted, this punishes star players who are familiar with the spotlight, but that's not necessarily a bad thing as it forces them to stay sharp.
But one thing is for sure though--the series will definitely lose its epicness.
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On May 29 2009 19:16 gchan wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2009 14:45 JWD wrote:On May 29 2009 14:42 AzureEye wrote:I hate the breaking up of BO5 but I love the idea of giving free MST access to highest Kespa ranking players Less random no-names in tournaments I guess Every "highest KeSPA ranking player" was once a "random no-name". This rule change punishes up-and-coming talent - younger, generally more motivated and skilled players - thereby killing game quality. And let me say something about splitting up BoX series: it's fucking awful. Separating the conclusion of a series from its beginning by enough practice days for a player to a) adjust to a certain strategy or style and b) re-compose himself punishes innovative players and mentally tough players and decreases the utility of exciting new builds and playstyles immensely. Imagine if GGPlay had had a week to react to Fantasy's mech build in the middle of their OSL Ro4 series - Fantasy may not have even been able to win one Bo5 on a build that revolutionized the Terran versus Zerg matchup. The MSL's organizers may feel that separating series increases suspense - it may, but at the expense of every exciting series-long storyline. A comeback is much less exciting if it occurs across two days of play separated by a week of downtime (is it even a comeback?), and a sweep is much less of a statement if its last wins are delayed. Basically, splitting BoX series is bad for innovation (bad for gamers) and bad for drama (bad for fans). When the series is Bo3, both of these effects are limited enough to be tolerable (and it's less likely a player will prepare an earth-shattering strategy for a Bo3 series, for example) but across a Bo5 series - the ultimate test in professional SC - this split will be just awful. I'm really disappointed in the MSL for making this format change in particular. I'd actually argue that splitting up the series creates more innovation as it gives time for the winner/loser to analyze their opponent's strategy. That means that each match has a lot more analysis and thought put into it. To me, this advances the metagame strategy--"innovation" if you will--a lot more than a consecutive game series. On the same token, the series becomes less about stamina and more about actual gameplay. Granted, this punishes star players who are familiar with the spotlight, but that's not necessarily a bad thing as it forces them to stay sharp. But one thing is for sure though--the series will definitely lose its epicness.
It might end up having the effect of making the semis and finals more epic, being the only "pure" BO5s.
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On May 29 2009 19:09 AttackZerg wrote:
Everything else doesn't matter to me but splitting up bo5's is a fucking joke.
Seriously that is the HARDEST moment of any starcraft players career, they should be sitting there sweating it out back to back. That is where stars are made.
Well, they're only splitting up the RO8 games ... OSL doesn't even have BO5 in RO8.
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On May 29 2009 19:16 gchan wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2009 14:45 JWD wrote:On May 29 2009 14:42 AzureEye wrote:I hate the breaking up of BO5 but I love the idea of giving free MST access to highest Kespa ranking players Less random no-names in tournaments I guess Every "highest KeSPA ranking player" was once a "random no-name". This rule change punishes up-and-coming talent - younger, generally more motivated and skilled players - thereby killing game quality. And let me say something about splitting up BoX series: it's fucking awful. Separating the conclusion of a series from its beginning by enough practice days for a player to a) adjust to a certain strategy or style and b) re-compose himself punishes innovative players and mentally tough players and decreases the utility of exciting new builds and playstyles immensely. Imagine if GGPlay had had a week to react to Fantasy's mech build in the middle of their OSL Ro4 series - Fantasy may not have even been able to win one Bo5 on a build that revolutionized the Terran versus Zerg matchup. The MSL's organizers may feel that separating series increases suspense - it may, but at the expense of every exciting series-long storyline. A comeback is much less exciting if it occurs across two days of play separated by a week of downtime (is it even a comeback?), and a sweep is much less of a statement if its last wins are delayed. Basically, splitting BoX series is bad for innovation (bad for gamers) and bad for drama (bad for fans). When the series is Bo3, both of these effects are limited enough to be tolerable (and it's less likely a player will prepare an earth-shattering strategy for a Bo3 series, for example) but across a Bo5 series - the ultimate test in professional SC - this split will be just awful. I'm really disappointed in the MSL for making this format change in particular. I'd actually argue that splitting up the series creates more innovation as it gives time for the winner/loser to analyze their opponent's strategy. That means that each match has a lot more analysis and thought put into it. To me, this advances the metagame strategy--"innovation" if you will--a lot more than a consecutive game series. On the same token, the series becomes less about stamina and more about actual gameplay. Granted, this punishes star players who are familiar with the spotlight, but that's not necessarily a bad thing as it forces them to stay sharp. But one thing is for sure though--the series will definitely lose its epicness.
I don't think splitting the match creates more innovation. The chance that someone comes up with a completely new build right in the week in between games isn't too high. And if they had the new build before the first game already, they wouldn't use it and play a conventional style instead so the opponent has no time to prepare. Only in matches 2-5 would we see innovation.
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I prefered watching the MSL since you had all games of a group in one day. Now with all the changes thats impossible. So confusing. Who whan what? Hard to remember when games are a month apart.
Giving players a seed because of their KeSPA ranking is bs too.
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Well after reading numerous interviews players who passed MST saying that their goal is to avoid offline premilinaries (and complex qualifiers). For this MSL is listening progamers, which is good.
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
This is fucking stupid. Go back to the fucking days of UZOO already. Thats a true fucking format.
Fuck helll rahhhhh
/MSL RAGE
More reason why I refuse to cover this piece of shit league
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
On May 29 2009 18:05 darktreb wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2009 14:52 konadora wrote:
Uh... they should stop screwing up MSL. Not that it was that good in the first place but... I don't understand why it's become popular lately on TL to bash on the MSL. I know the OSL has been more prestigious forever but it seems like only in the past year or so that it turned into common knowledge on TL. Now everyone is quick to bash on MSL when convenient, or to make arguments about 1 OSL = 2 MSL or other ridiculous stuff
This is no new idea on TL. This has been long held common knowledge. Indeed, no one gave a shit about the MSL on TL until around about Uzoo/Cyon. Uzoo/YATGK didn't even get R&S threads lolz
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Sweden33719 Posts
Splitting up Bo5s is stupid..... They are exciting because it's 5 games in a row, you want to kill all tension by packing up after 1 game? .___.
Splitting Bo3s I can SORT of understand but Bo5s >_
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On May 29 2009 20:12 FrozenArbiter wrote:
Splitting up Bo5s is stupid..... They are exciting because it's 5 games in a row, you want to kill all tension by packing up after 1 game? .___.
Splitting Bo3s I can SORT of understand but Bo5s >_<??
splitting BO3s? thats so weird, but because OSL favorism here so it seems to be okay. I mean losing first game you are panicking next time you play, but at least BO5 you have 2 games to make comeback.
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Germany / USA16648 Posts
what the fuck
splitting up bo3 is already bad enought, but splitting up bo5? are you serious? god this makes me angry on so many levels
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At least brackets do change from RO16 to RO8 which is nice.
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On May 29 2009 19:09 AttackZerg wrote:
Everything else doesn't matter to me but splitting up bo5's is a fucking joke.
Seriously that is the HARDEST moment of any starcraft players career, they should be sitting there sweating it out back to back. That is where stars are made.
I agree.
I would compare it to splitting up a tenis champion match with some sets played one day and the rest played the following day.
No one wants to see that.
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1) I both expected, and like it. (Main difference between this and normal Bo3 is that you are playing different people)
2) At this point in the post I am neutral, I assume there is a good reason.
4) It makes sense to have higher ranked players seeded, but why does every team get treated equally, why does an eSTRO/ACE (although this might be unfair as they both have improved substantially) get the same seed as say SKT. If a team has a lot of players in that win a game in the previous MSL (like Samsung) why should a weaker player get a seed.
In short I hate this decision.
Ro8
1) Dumbest move ever
2) I am glad they are moving away from the dumb preset bracket phase, but they should have a way of randomizing it, like have a 2-0 player randomly selected followed by a 2-1 player.
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On May 29 2009 18:15 Kuja900 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2009 14:22 ZBiR wrote:On May 29 2009 14:17 Emlary wrote:
4.) The player with the highest KeSPA ranking of each team will get a free access to MST. (If the No.1 player of a team has already made into MST or MSL, I guess the No.2 player will take the spot.). I like this one. Does this include ACE?
Of course it should, each team is each team and ACE is no exception.
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On May 29 2009 21:13 wswordsmen wrote:
4) It makes sense to have higher ranked players seeded, but why does every team get treated equally, why does an eSTRO/ACE (although this might be unfair as they both have improved substantially) get the same seed as say SKT. If a team has a lot of players in that win a game in the previous MSL (like Samsung) why should a weaker player get a seed.
Then again if SKT1 has already let say 3 to 4 players seeded to survivor (or MSL directly) they get highest KESPA ranked guy as bonus.
Don't know when they choose those 12 players to survivor tournament. I assume its before offline qualifiers (otherwise players like Best etc could get spot to survivor even if he lost offline qualifiers).
I bet OSL is going to change offline qualifiers too to match MSL some point (having 20 groups for MSL and 24 for OSL sounds weird and unfair)
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Braavos36373 Posts
Splitting up Bo5 = stupid. We won't have any more cool moments like Fantasy build or players choking or whatever. Instead we'll have one game, then four games? A Bo5 all at once is the most dramatic, most accurate display of player skill as we know it. You are forced to think, adapt, and withstand tremendous pressure. This last OSL Final, the awesome Fantasy-Jaedong, wouldn't have been nearly as great had it been 1 game then 4 games.
The KeSPA thing isn't so bad as long as they don't continue to go that way (ie more seeded players later in the tournament). People who are screaming at this forget that MST is outside the Ro32 even. It's not a big deal to seed players by KeSPA rank into the MST, because the entire offline into MST qualification process is a grueling and brutal format as it is. They are just giving better players more rest and preparation time, which frankly isn't unfair because the lesser players get way more practice per match due to their less demanding schedules. It's not the Ro32, its the MST.
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What'll probably happen is that first game will be normal/cheese, and no "innovation" will be shown since the players will be keeping it for games 2-5 as not to give their opponents time to prepare against it.
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I seriously don't understand playing 1 game and then playing 4 games the next time.
Why.. not just play all five at the same time?... Someone explain this to me.
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On May 29 2009 20:30 Carnac wrote:
what the fuck
splitting up bo3 is already bad enought, but splitting up bo5? are you serious? god this makes me angry on so many levels
Pretty much this. They're just delaying things for no good damn reason.
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i agree that it ruins the epicness of the individual matches by splitting the bo5 up, but just imagine how fucking awesome that first day will be! Its ro8 so theres going to be amazing players there, hence you get to see four top notch matches. For example, you could see an incredible match and between flash and stork and then BAM next up bisu vs leta....jaedong vs skyhigh...etc
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On May 29 2009 20:16 Too_MuchZerg wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2009 20:12 FrozenArbiter wrote:
Splitting up Bo5s is stupid..... They are exciting because it's 5 games in a row, you want to kill all tension by packing up after 1 game? .___.
Splitting Bo3s I can SORT of understand but Bo5s >_<?? splitting BO3s? thats so weird, but because OSL favorism here so it seems to be okay. I mean losing first game you are panicking next time you play, but at least BO5 you have 2 games to make comeback.
You're overreacting a bit, I think. "I can SORT of understand" isn't exactly a ringing endorsement.
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MSL is becoming so random splitting this up in such an akward fashion
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Belgium9945 Posts
Wow. Any advantage given through KeSPa rankings just makes me really sad. They're so inaccurate. Not to mention it fucks over GOM even more.
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There is no use being frustrated and angry over these changes.
Lets just wait and see how this plays out. Could be different that what you expect.
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what the fuck... split Bo5s... and I thought split Bo3s were bad enough >.<
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Katowice25012 Posts
I'm gonna fly to Korea to meet the guy who decided splitting up series over multiple days was a good idea, and then I'm going to punch him right in the nards.
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On May 29 2009 23:11 Jayme wrote:
I seriously don't understand playing 1 game and then playing 4 games the next time.
Why.. not just play all five at the same time?... Someone explain this to me.
Day 1: 4 games
Day 2: 4 to 8 games
Day 3: 4 to 8 games
So I think its just to balance out games. Now if there would be ZvZ, TvT, ZvP, PvT matches, they could arrange that ZvZ is shown first at day 2 and either ZvP or PvT after that. Just to give variety of games.
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where did they get the idea that people prefer Bo5s split up? goddamnit.
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On May 29 2009 19:22 darktreb wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2009 19:09 AttackZerg wrote:
Everything else doesn't matter to me but splitting up bo5's is a fucking joke.
Seriously that is the HARDEST moment of any starcraft players career, they should be sitting there sweating it out back to back. That is where stars are made. Well, they're only splitting up the RO8 games ... OSL doesn't even have BO5 in RO8.
oh ok, I misread the op. I thought all the bo5's except the finals were split.
I guess it matters alot less then.
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Match day 2
A vs. B game 2~5
C vs. D game 2~5
good news, we can see 8 games a day.
bad news 1, we might also see 8 fucking horrible games a day.
bad news 2, MSL is once a week now.? (I just dont like it when there is a hole in the week, except like final matches)
so ya, imo; this shit is bad.
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Why must it be so complicated, srsly. -_____-
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On May 29 2009 22:59 Hot_Bid wrote:
Splitting up Bo5 = stupid. We won't have any more cool moments like Fantasy build or players choking or whatever. Instead we'll have one game, then four games? A Bo5 all at once is the most dramatic, most accurate display of player skill as we know it. You are forced to think, adapt, and withstand tremendous pressure. This last OSL Final, the awesome Fantasy-Jaedong, wouldn't have been nearly as great had it been 1 game then 4 games.
First of all, this is a Ro8 thing only.
Also, you can look on the flip side. Bo5 all in one day can produce craptacular stuff. Imagine a quick, one-sided 3-0 of ZvZ(Jaedong by.hero?), or a 5 game long TvT that lasts for 5 hours(thank god this hasn't happened in a while). This sort of stuff doesn't make for good television to the general viewers.
By spliting things up, MBC can make sure that each day's schedule is somewhat balanced so there's variety.
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it would have made more sense to split it up 2 games 1 day, 1-3 on the next
splitting up bo5's gives better games imo.
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PEOPLE LISTEN.
The split bo5 is only in the ro8. So the, "OMG NO MORE EPIC JAEDONG-FANTASY BULLSHIT" argument is not valid. Also, its not like the OSL doesnt have their bo3 split in 2 days. Thats basically the same idea but guess what, YOU GET MORE FUCKING GAMES. Its not like every bo5 is epic anyway. Ro8 bo5s usually suck balls specially the way they are setting the ro8 brackets now where higher kespa ranked would not be facing each other. I also think giving a team 1 free pass for MST is a good thing, fakesteve said it well.
Also take note the the current change in the MST went out well. I personally liked it better than the old format. More people playing in a day instead of the same face raping the same face. This will be a good change to the ro32 too.
Seriously guys, I think you are just bitching because it is the MSL. If this were the OSL you would be like, OMG OSL RULES.
nonesense.
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Nothing we can do to change this, but it is bad for the sport. Having that unknown person being able to go from 0 to champion makes it exciting.
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On May 30 2009 10:13 sk` wrote:
Nothing we can do to change this, but it is bad for the sport. Having that unknown person being able to go from 0 to champion makes it exciting.
If that "unknown person" is really good. He will be champion regardless of what the format is. Seriously guys, you are even going way out of topic.
There are still offliners. There are 20 MST spots. Subtract 12 coz of Team seeds. You get 8 spots free. THAT IS ENOUGH SPOTS FOR GOOD UP AND COMING PLAYERS. Do you seriously want to see players like zergbong(this hurts me, im a fan), hyuk, s2, juni and etc. to be in the MST??
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Most changes I dont care about, and the ones I do care about are good!
Free access for higher ranked players is a good thing, I also like matchups decided on rankings instead of randomness.
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Split matches are silly but if it makes them happy then whatever.
As for the new ranking stuff: We all like seeing stars play, but this is not exactly going to help things for the new guys. The top-ranked KeSPA players on any team aren't going to be new. Taking xprogamer's chances of making the MST from 24 spots to 8 is a huge leap in difficulty. I suppose that means the ones who make it through will actually be good, but I prefer to see more new up-and-comers rather than the same 15 "Yes we know these guys are good" all the time.
But that's not the big problem. Who does it really hurt? It hurts the secondary stars. Take a team like KHAN and let's pretend Stork and Jangbi aren't already seeded (who knows, they might not be next time around). Let's say Jangbi has a higher KeSPA ranking. He gets the free spot, but Stork has to play all the way through offlines. How does this make sense in any way, shape, or form?
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Nooo don't ruin the BO5's.
Splitting it up cripples the intensity and mindgames involved D:
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So in theory you could get someone from ACE who is maybe highest ranked in the team at #20 getting a spot and someone like Fantasy at #5 misses out because Bisu is ahead of him at #2 (don't know the actual rankings)?
Kinda seems dumb to me and will dilute the playing pool skill a bit.
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I find it funny that the OSL and GSL are both looked upon more favorably (on TL) than the MSL. Must be a middle-child thing or something.
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Germany / USA16648 Posts
iLoveKTF stop fucking yelling at people
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United States4126 Posts
What the hell was wrong with the original format? Screw KeSPA.
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sorry. speaking of kespa, where they involved in any of this?
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At least MBC comes out with some good Dramas =P
But to be serious this isn't too surprising to me at least, considering how they run Music Core compared to other traditional shows. And yeah Kinky I wonder the same thing... minus the screw KeSPA part... maybe ^^
Music Core's on btw... and this show's gonna be boring as heck -_-
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United States12607 Posts
On May 30 2009 10:08 iLoveKTF wrote:
PEOPLE LISTEN.
The split bo5 is only in the ro8. So the, "OMG NO MORE EPIC JAEDONG-FANTASY BULLSHIT" argument is not valid.
Sorry, but this is the dumbest thing I've read on TL today (and believe me that is saying something).
+ Show Spoiler [hint] +Jaedong-Fantasy was just an example of an epic Bo5 that would not have been nearly as epic if it was split. We mentioned it to illustrate how splitting Bo5s could preclude drama and excitement, not to suggest that if Fantasy and Jaedong met in the Finals of a MSL their series would be split. Jesus, why didn't you take this pathetically flawed argument one step further and just say The split bo5 is only in the MSL. So the, "OMG NO MORE EPIC JAEDONG-FANTASY BULLSHIT" argument is not valid. or The split bo5 is only in future tournaments. So the, "OMG NO MORE EPIC JAEDONG-FANTASY BULLSHIT" argument is not valid. or, even better, The split bo5 is only in tournaments that are not the Batoo OSL. So the, "OMG NO MORE EPIC JAEDONG-FANTASY BULLSHIT" argument is not valid.
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OSL has split up bo5's and even bo3's that way for at least the last three tournaments...why complain now?
lol.
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On May 30 2009 16:48 JWD wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2009 10:08 iLoveKTF wrote:
PEOPLE LISTEN.
The split bo5 is only in the ro8. So the, "OMG NO MORE EPIC JAEDONG-FANTASY BULLSHIT" argument is not valid. Sorry, but this is the dumbest thing I've read on TL today (and believe me that is saying something). + Show Spoiler [hint] +Jaedong-Fantasy was just an example of an epic Bo5 that would not have been nearly as epic if it was split. We mentioned it to illustrate how splitting Bo5s could preclude drama and excitement, not to suggest that if Fantasy and Jaedong met in the Finals of a MSL their series would be split. Jesus, why didn't you take this pathetically flawed argument one step further and just say The split bo5 is only in the MSL. So the, "OMG NO MORE EPIC JAEDONG-FANTASY BULLSHIT" argument is not valid. or The split bo5 is only in future tournaments. So the, "OMG NO MORE EPIC JAEDONG-FANTASY BULLSHIT" argument is not valid. or, even better, The split bo5 is only in tournaments that are not the Batoo OSL. So the, "OMG NO MORE EPIC JAEDONG-FANTASY BULLSHIT" argument is not valid.
That is not even the point of what I was saying. My point was epic Bo5's in ro8 are very rare, like 1 of every 4 series every MSL. Specially now that the way ro8 bracketing will be done would make it a very good player vs a decent one.
Point: Its the ro8 ffs. Nobody remembers the ro8 except if it involved a really epic game and a legend (jangbi vs nada).
Also, the new ro8 style is 1 game this day and 4 games the next day. That barely removes any "drama and excitement" because you get to play 4 games in the 2nd day anyway. If you think there is too much drama lost in a bo5 where 1 game was played on a different day then you must be an overly dramatic person. Stop watching WWE.
edit: lol i reread your post and I realized I was pathetic to reply to it coz you didnt actually make any sense. But I understand, t1 fanboy + a t1 player being mentioned = broken fanboy heart.
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On May 29 2009 14:25 p4NDemik wrote:
What is this crap? Seriously? Each team gets one free MST spot? Make them earn it.
Part of what makes championships special is knowing players had to endure the gauntlet that is the Offline Prelims. Take Luxury for example: he went from the Prelims all the way up to MSL champion. This is just some absolute garbage attempt to make KeSPA ranking relevant. Fuck that. This isn't American College Football and the BCS.
quoted for truth
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On May 30 2009 10:14 iLoveKTF wrote:
THAT IS ENOUGH SPOTS FOR GOOD UP AND COMING PLAYERS. Do you seriously want to see players like zergbong(this hurts me, im a fan), hyuk, s2, juni and etc. to be in the MST??
yes, juni plays a really entertaining style
one thing im really scared of is if the OSL adopts some of these lame changes
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Germany / USA16648 Posts
On May 30 2009 17:10 PH wrote:
OSL has split up bo5's and even bo3's that way for at least the last three tournaments...why complain now?
lol. OSL has never split up bo5s and many people have voiced their complaints regarding OGN's split bo3s in Ro8 as well...
On May 30 2009 18:15 iLoveKTF wrote:
edit: lol i reread your post and I realized I was pathetic to reply to it coz you didnt actually make any sense. But I understand, t1 fanboy + a t1 player being mentioned = broken fanboy heart.
Dont troll, it has nothing to do with T1. It would be the same if it were Flash vs Jaedong or w/e else.
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3 Lions
United States3705 Posts
maybe it's cuz i just woke up, but i just realized that means that there will always be at least 1 ACE player in the MSL now
good yes?
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God I hate split up bo's, let's hold boxing tournaments as well were we cut off in the middle of the rounds and have the other rounds next week, sigh. Way to gay up the ro8 MSL. I suppose this is because they want to have multiple races/match ups on the same day to make it more diverse or something? No thanks.
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I wonder how this will effect Jaedongs lose the 1st game strategy...
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Does anyone know at which date the Group Selection will be?
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So ACE gets a player in MSL now?
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So ACE gets a player in MST now?
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Kespa Fails. That is all.
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Whats up with not having a braket for the round of 8? This is getting to be as bad a college football and its broken system for choosing who plays in what games.
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Dick move! Lol.
This all sucks major ass.
EDIT: If KeSPA wants to seed something by their ranks, fine. Do it at the Round of 16 when the bracket starts. Don't do it in the Round of 8 you dolts.
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split matches? wtf -_-
also this rule is IMBA:
"The player with the highest KeSPA ranking of each team will get a free access to MST. (If the No.1 player of a team has already made into MST or MSL, I guess the No.2 player will take the spot.)"
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On May 30 2009 10:08 iLoveKTF wrote:
PEOPLE LISTEN.
The split bo5 is only in the ro8. So the, "OMG NO MORE EPIC JAEDONG-FANTASY BULLSHIT" argument is not valid. Also, its not like the OSL doesnt have their bo3 split in 2 days. Thats basically the same idea but guess what, YOU GET MORE FUCKING GAMES. Its not like every bo5 is epic anyway. Ro8 bo5s usually suck balls specially the way they are setting the ro8 brackets now where higher kespa ranked would not be facing each other. I also think giving a team 1 free pass for MST is a good thing, fakesteve said it well.
Also take note the the current change in the MST went out well. I personally liked it better than the old format. More people playing in a day instead of the same face raping the same face. This will be a good change to the ro32 too.
Seriously guys, I think you are just bitching because it is the MSL. If this were the OSL you would be like, OMG OSL RULES.
nonesense.
"The split bo5 is only in the ro8. So the, "OMG NO MORE EPIC JAEDONG-FANTASY BULLSHIT" argument is not valid. " Erm, the point of that is that a 0-2 to 3-2 comeback is not nearly as exciting over a week. The finals point is null, but the excitement will go down.
"YOU GET MORE FUCKING GAMES." No you don't.
"Ro8 bo5s usually suck balls specially the way they are setting the ro8 brackets now where higher kespa ranked would not be facing each other. I also think giving a team 1 free pass for MST is a good thing, fakesteve said it well." Free passes are into the MST, Bo5's start at the Ro8, so this is pointless.
No one likes the weird way the Bo3's are set up in the OSL either.
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They're doing this for ratings. Normally, a bo5 between two no-names could ruin a day's ratings and advertising revenues. But if Sangho vs Violet is followed up by Jaedong vs Flash, I'll tune in that day.
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Guys I just realized:
BeSt can finally make an MSL!!!!
Still sucks imo.
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i do disagree with the bo5 series gets cut in two. the aspect of concentration stamina gets somewhat destroyed and its always more fun to watch a whole match than watching it in pieces.
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9070 Posts
Finally the KeSPa ranking means something! What was the point of it before anyway ? The best thing would always be to form the brackets for the tournament only based on KeSPa ranking, like in tennis. Then you will have bisu and JD on the opposite side of the draw with the only chance to meet in the Finals. If MBC decides to keep to this concept, the group selection will be just a formality without its current drama, but such bullshit like Flash/JD/Hwasin/FBH group and JangBi/Bisu/Kal/free will never going to happen.
The current system is rigged as hell, players have been picking their opponents on personal matter for years now (oov autopick nada, nal_ra boxer etc). The tournament suffers from this so much, if they make things more KeSPa rank orientated such a joke champions like Luxury will almost never happened and anyway, what kind of prestigeous tournament is this, when because of the fucking group selection system the 4 players in the world are nowhere to be seen in the Ro16. Those must be tolerated and never given the opportunity to face each other in "no-one-gives-a-fuck-about" Bo1 in the group stages
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United States13896 Posts
Looks like MBC finally decided these changes were idiotic:
http://www.fomos.kr/board/board.php?mode=read&keyno=105092&db=issue
In short, they're reverting back to the old format (in most respects): Preliminaries will go back to being 24 groups (not 20), places 9-32 from previous MSL all go to MST again (not 9-24), and the #1 KeSPA rated player on each team does NOT get a free pass any more.
Hallelujah.
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woot woot !thanks for the update
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51392 Posts
they keep split ro8 bo5's though t.t
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Mystlord
United States10264 Posts
On March 23 2010 15:05 p4NDemik wrote:Looks like MBC finally decided these changes were idiotic: http://www.fomos.kr/board/board.php?mode=read&keyno=105092&db=issueIn short, they're reverting back to the old format (in most respects): Preliminaries will go back to being 24 groups (not 20), places 9-32 from previous MSL all go to MST again (not 9-24), and the #1 KeSPA rated player on each team does NOT get a free pass any more. Hallelujah.
Oh my god YES! Their changes were so stupid =_=
Edit:
On March 23 2010 15:14 GTR wrote:
they keep split ro8 bo5's though t.t
Well you gotta start somewhere
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good. no more free passes!
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Melbourne5338 Posts
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EPT
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