Following my article on the controversial Battle Royal, I've decided to post this picture of a Starcraft map-making community member, Narcisse, who attempted to redesign Battle Royal.
Original Battle Royal:
Community redesign:
Some important info of the map:
- Once the assimilators are destroyed, the nat is completely safe except only from sieged siege tanks' attacks.
- All neutral buildings are stacked twice (except the assimilators)
- The mineral walls are of 16 mineral values per field.
That's a fairly radical redesign. I don't suppose it's possible to glitch units through the minerals at the back of the mains? The thirds at 5 and 11 look fairly easy to take and keep than in the original - perhaps we could see some longer macro games here? How has the Korean community reacted to this map?
On May 15 2009 00:49 The Raurosaur wrote: That's a fairly radical redesign. I don't suppose it's possible to glitch units through the minerals at the back of the mains? The thirds at 5 and 11 look fairly easy to take and keep than in the original - perhaps we could see some longer macro games here? How has the Korean community reacted to this map?
Ah that's right, forgot to translate comments. Brb
Guys guys, this thread isn't about saying 'Thanks konadora' (although I appreciate it a lot). Discuss about the balance issues here, and see whether the changes are viable or not, etc. (I will do that later, I need to sleep soon ~_~)
well i think the map will give some more opportunities for other races since the mineral wall will make it easier to get out.
while the rush distance is still short, the repositioning of natural and main helps to defend mutalisk harass i guess. can't really think of anything else right now.
I seem to sense some TvP imbalance... once taking over that middle of the map an minining both sides / pushing iwth turrests, its gonna be hard as hell for toss to break out. Then again, i havent played it but i think this could be an issue T-T
Rush distance actually look shorter in the new version since the main is a lot closer to the assimilators than in the original version. Other than that I can't really comment on much. It's almost a completely new map with all the changes. Seems really easy to take and defend the expos right outside your main (on the side with neutral building) since there's only one entrance and you can easily reinforce. Seems like you can easily go 4-base/3-gas if you defend the small mineral line by your main.
I wonder if this will get added to the Iccup mappack.
If anything, the nat wall's so close to the mins that it will definitely HELP muta harass. You're going to have to go some type of air to defend that wall anyways.
Oh god... New Battle Royal is a piece of shit. Sure, it'll make Terran stronger, shellable naturals, small chokes to push from etc. Zerg will probably stay the same, although it seems the rush distance has been shortened a bit. Toss... I think they'll be EVEN worse on this map. Doesn't seem like there'd be a way for a toss to beat a same skilled zerg/terran on it.
I have to agree with sushiman that the rush distances appear shorter. I think this will make ling and hydra pressure even more dangerous to a meching T. The overlord travel distance appears to be similarly short as before, and we all know how problematic that is. Distance between nat and main is even shorter as well, which I think will make overlord scouting more potent, as it won't have to travel as far to scout both areas.
On the other hand, with so many ways to get out of your base, timing attacks from T may become more viable. T should also be able to exert more pressure after holding the mutas. Without obstacles in the middle, the threat of vulture harass should begin earlier than before too.
I dont really like the idea of defending against mutas tvz on the new map...not only can they still place OLs around your base for scouting info, but the fact that there is no gap between the cliff and the minerals, means that turrets aren't as effective, and its harder to micro marines against them. Plus the close air distance means Zerg can muta harass both nat and main pretty much at the same time
Its certainly better but its still going to have similar problems as it did originally - there is no way to defend that nat from muta harass. I don't see any way to 'fix' the whole gimmick where you have a long rush distance but short air distance to mains, this just makes it more "balanced to the degree RA was' rather than something that allows a large variety on it.
Going bionic on the new map seems much better than on the old Battle Royal. I played a game with GTR, and bionic was a much more better build because of the close proximity of the expansions.
It looks better. I can't really say but I feel like in TvP the Terran can dominate that middle trench easily. Almost looks like a skewy Blue Storm in that respect.
Not closing off the center path between the bases (from assimilator to assimilator) effectively makes it an entirely new map. I think it'll play too differently from what I see to really call it an "update" for Battle Royal.
EDIT That said, it's still a beautiful map that will probably allow for some great games.
On May 16 2009 21:29 konadora wrote: The center is really damn close FYI. It takes like 5 seconds for stimmed marines to reach from one assimilator entrance to another lmao
More like a couple at most.
It's still close, but the entire feel of the map will change...the updated version is more of a macro map. I don't think it'll be quite as manic and constantly moving like the original.
It looks like protoss would have a hard time defending on this map with all the potential entrances... looks pretty zerg/terran favored to me. Still looks like a really fun map to play though.
that would be insane if all of the middle part where it looks like lower ground, was actually lower ground. So the part where its dirt, rather than temple ground would actually be lower ground. :D
Distance between the 2 bases is still too great for ground units and too short for overlords. It will still be a Z dominated map.
Not to mention, the Nat mineral line is so much closer to the mains mineral line in the newer version that it'll make defending all your drones even easier. (Or harder, depending on who was faster on their timings.) Point being, it is still going to be a Z map. There's no way to save Battle Royal, its doomed after this PL season is over.
Ah thanks for sharing and showing us this konadora! ^_^
But to be technical, whether this redesign map is better than the original or anything, I doubt it'll ever shine in the depths of the Proleague and thru the faces of the Progamers seeing how KeSPA is just there in the middle with a nice meat firewall.....
On May 18 2009 10:33 alt.tday wrote: can someone explain to my why/how this map is so zerg favored? I know it is, I'm not saying it isnt, but what features make it so zerg friendly?
Distance from Spawn A and Spawn B is very short. An overlord will be floating over your base within seconds watching everything you do.
The Distance from Spawn A and Spawn B by ground is very long, all Z has to do is destroy the Assims and the opponent has to run all the way around the map to get into Zs base, while Z still has a Lord floating around in his opponents base watching everything going on and preparing for it.
So, like i said earlier, this map is also doomed, along with the original BR, to be a boring Muta dog fight 100% of the time.
Unless you pull a JD and let your Spire get sniped.
What with Light being the first to triumph in a TvZ, do you think this will open the gates for more terrans to win or do you think this was just a fluke and zerg will continue to dominate?
On May 22 2009 10:49 ryuu_ wrote: The current is imba, and I hope something like the community one gets out there, it would fix some problems at least.
...They are replacing the old oen with Battle Royal 2. It was announced before your post
There really is a generally anti-zerg bias in the starcraft community. The record for Battle Royal is TvZ: 2-7 (22.2%). Is that imbalanced? I would say yes, it looks pretty bad.
However what about Byzantium 3 and Carthage 2? Byzantium 3 has a record of TvZ: 13-4 (76.5%). This is not far off the Battle Royal figures and Carthage 2 is even worse than Battle Royal at 8-1 (88.9%) for TvZ.
It seems like whenever there is a balance issue that goes against terrans there is a huge uproar in the community and maps get changed. On the other hand when there are maps that go heavily against zerg there is a kind of collective shrug or some excuses about zergs 'just playing badly'. It's infuriating. I can understand the desire to get Battle Royal changed but Byzantium 3 and Carthage 2 need the same treatment as well.
Wow this new one looks fucking awesome! Thanks konadora! Protoss does look like it has an advantage in a way, but I still think Z >>> T. Map favour is now P > Z > T IMO.
On May 15 2009 02:35 thunk wrote: I wonder if this will get added to the Iccup mappack.
If anything, the nat wall's so close to the mins that it will definitely HELP muta harass. You're going to have to go some type of air to defend that wall anyways.
would it be advisable to allow the high ground some buildable space for cannons/turrets??
EPT
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/maps/201_Battle%20Royal.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/3671/battleroyalkorcommver.jpg)
