KeSPA has revealed that they are changing their rules regarding pausing the game.
After a meeting held on the 7th of May to discuss the 'pp' incident regarding Leta which occurred on the 28th of April, they have decided to change the rules.
Between Section 8 and 13 of the rules, which are related to pausing the game, section 8 remains unchanged while section 13, which states that typing anything other than 'ppp' resulting in a disqualification was removed.
The new rule was take place starting from the Bacchus OSL Round of 36, Group 2, which will be held on the 8th of May (friday).
▶ Section 8, Game pause based on player's request ◆ Before change In the situations described below, the players can type 'p' multiple times to request for a pause. (But when there is a problem with a keyboard the game can be paused immediately). Under the referee's command "Pause", the game can be paused. What happens to the game is depending on the referee's judgment.
8.11 Misc - When situations occur which cause the game to work out differently than before the start of the game (graphic, lag, system problems, etc)
◆ After change In the situations described below, the players can type 'p' multiple times as well as any other keys to request for a pause. (But when there is a problem with a keyboard the game can be paused immediately). Under the referee's command "Pause", the game can be paused. What happens to the game is depending on the referee's judgment.
8.11 Misc - When a situation which affects gameplay based on the player's judgment occurs.
▶ Section 13, Declaration of acceptance of loss ◆ Before change Only 'gg (lower casing in English), GG (caps in English)' will be accepted as declarations of acceptance of loss. If the player types anything other than 'ppp (game pause request)' or the aforementioned declarations to declare acceptance of loss, it will result in a disqualification and a warning (with effect from 11th April 2009)
◆ After change Section 13, Declaration of acceptance of loss Only 'gg (lower casing in English), GG (caps in English)' will be accepted as declarations of acceptance of loss. Typing anything else to declare acceptance of loss will result in a disqualification and a warning. (With effect from 11th April 2009)
netizens agree: - i feel so fucking bad for leta... - wow WTF are you fucking kidding me you bastards? hahahhahhahahaa.. wow, leta just became the victim here you fucking crazy bastards... you should have made the rules properly from the start what the fuck do you guys do right anyway????????????? - ge-spa just shoves a shitload of money up their ass while they do nothing. - what are you going to do about leta ge-spa!!!!!!! fuck, i'm starting to curse... - what are you going to do about leta.. what are you going to do about leta who is shocked and heavily affected because of this... - kespa work is easier than being a reporter - this announcement will just make leta cry twice.
This is just addressing a symptom, not the root problem. I presume the ridiculous situation and the backlash from Korean fans caused them to take this step, but unfortunately (from my point of view) they really haven't re-thought how to make Starcraft more popular.
On May 08 2009 23:41 Zona wrote: This is just addressing a symptom, not the root problem. I presume the ridiculous situation and the backlash from Korean fans caused them to take this step, but unfortunately (from my point of view) they really haven't re-thought how to make Starcraft more popular.
even after what has been done Leta will still be pp-terran
Section 13, Declaration of acceptance of loss Only 'gg (lower casing in English), GG (caps in English)' will be accepted as declarations of acceptance of loss. Typing anything else to declare acceptance of loss will result in a disqualification and a warning. (With effect from 11th April 2009
Does that even mean anything? If your accepting your loss you've already lost and a DQ wouldn't change the actual result.....
Section 13, Declaration of acceptance of loss Only 'gg (lower casing in English), GG (caps in English)' will be accepted as declarations of acceptance of loss. Typing anything else to declare acceptance of loss will result in a disqualification and a warning. (With effect from 11th April 2009
Does that even mean anything? If your accepting your loss you've already lost and a DQ wouldn't change the actual result.....
The DQ will result in the game "not being counted in the official record of the player" but "will still be counted in the official record of the map the game was played on". Which I say it's a good thing. Keep doing that for every game you're going to lose since your debut, and you'll have 100% win rate for the rest of your life.
If only I could do that on ICCup. I'll be number 1 in Singapore for sure.
Section 13, Declaration of acceptance of loss Only 'gg (lower casing in English), GG (caps in English)' will be accepted as declarations of acceptance of loss. Typing anything else to declare acceptance of loss will result in a disqualification and a warning. (With effect from 11th April 2009
Does that even mean anything? If your accepting your loss you've already lost and a DQ wouldn't change the actual result.....
The DQ will result in the game "not being counted in the official record of the player" but "will still be counted in the official record of the map the game was played on". Which I say it's a good thing. Keep doing that for every game you're going to lose since your debut, and you'll have 100% win rate for the rest of your life.
If only I could do that on ICCup. I'll be number 1 in Singapore for sure.
I believe it's actually the reverse. It counts towards the official record of the player, but will NOT count in the official record of the map the game was played on.
Section 13, Declaration of acceptance of loss Only 'gg (lower casing in English), GG (caps in English)' will be accepted as declarations of acceptance of loss. Typing anything else to declare acceptance of loss will result in a disqualification and a warning. (With effect from 11th April 2009
Does that even mean anything? If your accepting your loss you've already lost and a DQ wouldn't change the actual result.....
The DQ will result in the game "not being counted in the official record of the player" but "will still be counted in the official record of the map the game was played on". Which I say it's a good thing. Keep doing that for every game you're going to lose since your debut, and you'll have 100% win rate for the rest of your life.
If only I could do that on ICCup. I'll be number 1 in Singapore for sure.
I believe it's actually the reverse. It counts towards the official record of the player, but will NOT count in the official record of the map the game was played on.
They said what I mentioned in one of the matches (I think I said this in a LR thread). Unless I'm starting to have problems with my ear or my mind is going haywire.
I'll just double check to be sure, dunno where I can though
Sounds like a step in the right direction from KeSPA. Unfortunately, the rule system needs bigger changes. For example, the "gg" rule is still nonsensical and unnecessary - it doesn't even address the problem it was created to solve.
On May 09 2009 00:15 Nevuk wrote: From the changed wording, can players chat in game if they feel like? (There's no limits on anything besides conceding defeat)
I think there are other rules not mentioned in this article that forbids that. I think it was made after that game involving Boxer on Forte about how he said his base was small, and his opponent starting checking madly for a proxy.
At least Leta's sacrifice is no longer in vain : / They really should have a rematch of that set and then an ace match if Leta wins it (especially given how competitive both STX and hite are in the standings, a 1 match difference could mean a lot come playoff time), but that seems about as likely as me winning an OSL
On May 09 2009 00:15 Nevuk wrote: From the changed wording, can players chat in game if they feel like? (There's no limits on anything besides conceding defeat)
I think there are other rules not mentioned in this article that forbids that. I think it was made after that game involving Boxer on Forte about how he said his base was small, and his opponent starting checking madly for a proxy.
For example, the "gg" rule is still nonsensical and unnecessary - it doesn't even address the problem it was created to solve.
What problem was it? Why is there a GG rule at all? Why can't a player just leave?
Long time ago, on a far away map called Return of the King, a Protoss who broke his back typed zizi yO before his enemy typed out, which led to some confusion, and Fists of Fury decided to accept his fate.
28 days later, KeSPA said 'only type gg or we disqualify you'.
28 weeks later, the "what happens if the winner types zizi yO first" issue has yet to be solved.
For example, the "gg" rule is still nonsensical and unnecessary - it doesn't even address the problem it was created to solve.
What problem was it? Why is there a GG rule at all? Why can't a player just leave?
Long time ago, on a far away map called Return of the King, a Protoss who broke his back typed zizi yO before his enemy typed out, which led to some confusion, and Fists of Fury decided to accept his fate.
28 days later, KeSPA said 'only type gg or we disqualify you'.
28 weeks later, the "what happens if the winner types zizi yO first" issue has yet to be solved.
A small step in the right direction IMO, but the rest of the rules are still retarded. I have a feeling that Kespppa is going to fix their rules one by one after a controversy just like this. Instead they should just go over their rules and fix all of their obviously bullshit rules preemptively.
It's good that KeSPA decided to change the rules a bit, I'm disappointed they didn't modify the "gg/GG" rule. Perhaps another one or two incidents and a bit a flame from the netizens will make them change that aswell.
finally they changed these rules.. well poor leta does not get his win/match back.. but for the future I see KeSPA being a bit more .. well ... friendly
What happens to the game is depending on the referee's judgment.
this is what annoys me, the referee was such an idiot. he decided to judge that leta should be disqualified rather than make the more logical judgement of continuing the game.
On May 09 2009 00:15 Nevuk wrote: From the changed wording, can players chat in game if they feel like? (There's no limits on anything besides conceding defeat)
I think there are other rules not mentioned in this article that forbids that. I think it was made after that game involving Boxer on Forte about how he said his base was small, and his opponent starting checking madly for a proxy.
Hahahahaha. God I love Boxer.
that was vs junitoss iirc, the game that broke junitoss' head.
Yea seriously... there is no reason to not allow chat. If a player doesn't want to he could not respond and /squelch his opponent during the first minute.
If kespa cared about entertaining the fans they'd allow full chat in games again.
Would be so nice for those longs tvts
ANd wouldnt it be fun to have players taunting the others in the opening minutes with stuff like "I 4 pool this game ok, you 14 cc please?" Much better than watching drones mine.
And ya, stuff like that junitoss game is freaking awesome. Why would they want to get read of that?
It doesn't inherently give a player an advantage or disadvantage, it adds another psychological layer to the game and as long as nothing publicly offensive is said(easy to regulate) then there's absolutely no harm in doing so.
I think kespa needs a good lesson in sports promotion=/
On May 09 2009 09:08 Jonoman92 wrote: Yea seriously... there is no reason to not allow chat. If a player doesn't want to he could not respond and /squelch his opponent during the first minute.
I'm pretty sure you can't /squelch(99.9%) on lan setting.
besides during the game /squelch doing even work...even on battle.net or iccup
I mean you can do /squelch but the chat will still show..until you get back to the channel.
Ehh... I don't like that. If you mistype and press 'ff' or 'hh' or something when conceding defeat, it turns into a controversy about disqualification... And I mean, when you're flustered after a hard game you've just lost, so what if your finger is a cm out of place?
It's not like it's a complicated issue to solve at all either... The person who leaves first lost. Saying gg is just etiquette.
KESPA still doesn't get it. They've changed one rule but they haven't changed the underlying logic - that things that do not impact the outcome of the game should not result in disqualification.
On May 09 2009 12:35 The Storyteller wrote: KESPA still doesn't get it. They've changed one rule but they haven't changed the underlying logic - that things that do not impact the outcome of the game should not result in disqualification.
I really don't see how it really matters.
Say the loser types out with "zizi yO"
He loses the game, but now he gets disqualified. What is the real difference?
I still stand by the opinions I shared in my final edit, but at least there's now enough clarity for the progamers to be totally aware of the situation regarding these rules. I just hope no one makes any accidental mistakes because that would really be upsetting.
So I guess we can thank Boxer for ruining it for the rest of the progamers, haha (thanks for helping us find it GTR).
1) I think this is just a temporary band-aid just hiding the real problem 2) KeSPA is struggling to find a way to balance being professional and keeping it entertaining. It's hard because if you completely allow ceremonies you're basically promoting showboating - not necessarily something you want your players known as. If you allow games with text you're adding humor but you're also promoting a possible lack of sportsman ship.
On May 09 2009 13:26 nataziel wrote: In regards to the official kespa rules, why was bisu and SKT allowed to do that ceremony with the dancing and stuff? I thought that was banned now?
Only OFFENSIVE ceremonies (in the eyes of KeSPA) are banned. Such as crotch-thrusting.
netizens agree: - i feel so fucking bad for leta... - wow WTF are you fucking kidding me you bastards? hahahhahhahahaa.. wow, leta just became the victim here you fucking crazy bastards... you should have made the rules properly from the start what the fuck do you guys do right anyway????????????? - ge-spa just shoves a shitload of money up their ass while they do nothing. - what are you going to do about leta ge-spa!!!!!!! fuck, i'm starting to curse... - what are you going to do about leta.. what are you going to do about leta who is shocked and heavily affected because of this... - kespa work is easier than being a reporter - this announcement will just make leta cry twice.
So I guess we can thank Boxer for ruining it for the rest of the progamers, haha (thanks for helping us find it GTR).
1) I think this is just a temporary band-aid just hiding the real problem 2) KeSPA is struggling to find a way to balance being professional and keeping it entertaining. It's hard because if you completely allow ceremonies you're basically promoting showboating - not necessarily something you want your players known as. If you allow games with text you're adding humor but you're also promoting a possible lack of sportsman ship.
Who cares about a "possible" lack of sportsmanship or showboating. Let the fans judge. If they dont like bad sportsmanship or showboating they will let their voice be heard and the players themselves will respond without the need of kespa. No players or teams want to be hated...the world has its own control systems, no need to make artificial ones. Personally I think a little Bm or showboating would do e sports some good. Every sport needs a villain.
On May 09 2009 13:26 nataziel wrote: In regards to the official kespa rules, why was bisu and SKT allowed to do that ceremony with the dancing and stuff? I thought that was banned now?
Only OFFENSIVE ceremonies (in the eyes of KeSPA) are banned. Such as crotch-thrusting.
they banned crotch thrusting? what's the fucking point the cons of banning it outweigh the pros by far
Good news, although it's still late. This is the problem with all rules or laws: the fact that people feel a need to follow the letter, rather than the spirit of the law.
So I guess we can thank Boxer for ruining it for the rest of the progamers, haha (thanks for helping us find it GTR).
1) I think this is just a temporary band-aid just hiding the real problem 2) KeSPA is struggling to find a way to balance being professional and keeping it entertaining. It's hard because if you completely allow ceremonies you're basically promoting showboating - not necessarily something you want your players known as. If you allow games with text you're adding humor but you're also promoting a possible lack of sportsman ship.
Who cares about a "possible" lack of sportsmanship or showboating. Let the fans judge. If they dont like bad sportsmanship or showboating they will let their voice be heard and the players themselves will respond without the need of kespa. No players or teams want to be hated...the world has its own control systems, no need to make artificial ones. Personally I think a little Bm or showboating would do e sports some good. Every sport needs a villain.
I feel that's a very American thing to say. KeSPA wants to keep a professional image and in Korea it's probably less acceptable to showboat than it is in America (you saw how awkward Midas was when he preformed his ceremonies). Of course no player or team wants to be hated but it just takes one or two bad decisions to reflect poorly on KeSPA. It would take a gigantic leap of faith for KeSPA to say that we will let our players speak for us about professionalism and not try to regulate what players do.
On May 09 2009 00:15 Nevuk wrote: From the changed wording, can players chat in game if they feel like? (There's no limits on anything besides conceding defeat)
I think there are other rules not mentioned in this article that forbids that. I think it was made after that game involving Boxer on Forte about how he said his base was small, and his opponent starting checking madly for a proxy.
HAHA in the latest luxury vs kwanro match luxury typed gfg and tapped out lololololol I dunno if he did that on purpose out of spite but doesn't matter, he's my hero for the next few days. Kespa didn't do anything about it because otherwise fans would have shat on them again. Serves you right Kespa go curl up in the corner and die with your stupid rulebook
On May 11 2009 13:36 rotinegg wrote: HAHA in the latest luxury vs kwanro match luxury typed gfg and tapped out lololololol I dunno if he did that on purpose out of spite but doesn't matter, he's my hero for the next few days. Kespa didn't do anything about it because otherwise fans would have shat on them again. Serves you right Kespa go curl up in the corner and die with your stupid rulebook
Getting DQ'd for typos is so lol. What happens if someone were to type "gg' (admitting defeat), and the other person accidentally types "g" (I do this all the time on accident). Common sense would tell you that obviously nothing would happen, but then you remember Leta. Though, hopefully, the rule change is a step towards using common sense.
▶ Section 8, Game pause based on player's request ◆ Before change In the situations described below, the players can type 'p' multiple times to request for a pause. (But when there is a problem with a keyboard the game can be paused immediately). Under the referee's command "Pause", the game can be paused. What happens to the game is depending on the referee's judgment.
8.10 Misc - When situations occur which cause the game to work out differently than before the start of the game (graphic, lag, system problems, etc)
◆ After change In the situations described below, the players can type 'p' multiple times as well as any other keys to request for a pause. (But when there is a problem with a keyboard the game can be paused immediately). Under the referee's command "Pause", the game can be paused. What happens to the game is depending on the referee's judgment.
8.11 Misc - When a situation which affects gameplay based on the player's judgment occurs.
wtf you can press any key? so "sex sex pussyhair" is officially allowed to request a pause?
On May 11 2009 13:36 rotinegg wrote: HAHA in the latest luxury vs kwanro match luxury typed gfg and tapped out lololololol I dunno if he did that on purpose out of spite but doesn't matter, he's my hero for the next few days. Kespa didn't do anything about it because otherwise fans would have shat on them again. Serves you right Kespa go curl up in the corner and die with your stupid rulebook
▶ Section 8, Game pause based on player's request ◆ Before change In the situations described below, the players can type 'p' multiple times to request for a pause. (But when there is a problem with a keyboard the game can be paused immediately). Under the referee's command "Pause", the game can be paused. What happens to the game is depending on the referee's judgment.
8.10 Misc - When situations occur which cause the game to work out differently than before the start of the game (graphic, lag, system problems, etc)
◆ After change In the situations described below, the players can type 'p' multiple times as well as any other keys to request for a pause. (But when there is a problem with a keyboard the game can be paused immediately). Under the referee's command "Pause", the game can be paused. What happens to the game is depending on the referee's judgment.
8.11 Misc - When a situation which affects gameplay based on the player's judgment occurs.
wtf you can press any key? so "sex sex pussyhair" is officially allowed to request a pause?
▶ Section 8, Game pause based on player's request ◆ Before change In the situations described below, the players can type 'p' multiple times to request for a pause. (But when there is a problem with a keyboard the game can be paused immediately). Under the referee's command "Pause", the game can be paused. What happens to the game is depending on the referee's judgment.
8.10 Misc - When situations occur which cause the game to work out differently than before the start of the game (graphic, lag, system problems, etc)
◆ After change In the situations described below, the players can type 'p' multiple times as well as any other keys to request for a pause. (But when there is a problem with a keyboard the game can be paused immediately). Under the referee's command "Pause", the game can be paused. What happens to the game is depending on the referee's judgment.
8.11 Misc - When a situation which affects gameplay based on the player's judgment occurs.
wtf you can press any key? so "sex sex pussyhair" is officially allowed to request a pause?
Of course not >__>
But how i understand it rules say so. Maybe "pp sexsex pussyhair" :D
Well my point is serious. Rules don't say anything against it. "Any keys"
Just because they say "any other keys", do you think the KeSPA will allow players to type "fuck you give me a pause"? There is still an unwritten restriction as to what you can type.
The players won't try to be funny and twist the words around =/
They changed the rules the way I suggested! Or almost. When Leta was DQ'd, I said they should change it so that anything a player types is judged as either "giving up" or "pause the game my screen/mouse/keyboard is whack!" and all the referee had to do is judge which one it is. Only if they had no problems, or were really giving up (in which case it doesn't really matter to them), should they be disqualified. No need to disqualify when they were asking for pause.
Still think they should unban talking entirely though, it would open up so many "mindgame" strategies. And fun! Plus you need to spend time while you type anyway, so it's not like it's free of cost. Every strategy has a weakness.
dq for typos is the most retarded shit no matter how you look at it, kespa is going to be number one on power rank with these rules there is something called common sense you idiots, use it
On May 19 2009 00:57 justiceknight wrote: instead of gg,cant they just quit the game without typing GG?
Yes they can. By killing own buildings (or let opponent to do it)
No what he means is not even typing gg, just going altqq in an idra- or D level ICCup player- like manner (or lack of manners to be precise). Theoretically they can do that but idk if there is a kespa imposed punishment for it, i'm thinking that it would be more imposed by the society.
◆ After change In the situations described below, the players can type 'p' multiple times as well as any other keys to request for a pause. (But when there is a problem with a keyboard the game can be paused immediately). Under the referee's command "Pause", the game can be paused. What happens to the game is depending on the referee's judgment.
I wonder what is KeSPA stand if losing player whispers 'gg' to opponent and he replies back 'gg' (visible to audience). Is this considered win or lose for winning player?
I wonder if referees would check FPvods for this matter.
On August 03 2009 05:38 Too_MuchZerg wrote: I wonder what is KeSPA stand if losing player whispers 'gg' to opponent and he replies back 'gg'. Is this considered win or lose for winning player?
Hmmm..... this sounds like a troll for bumping a thread that was about "ppp" and not "gg"..... (not to mention the last post was May and it's now 3 months after when you could have made a seperate OP about it...)
But to answer your question, it should be fairly obvious the winner of that game, if someone did that, it would have been made known because they do have a separate FPV screen for each player...
On August 03 2009 05:38 Too_MuchZerg wrote: I wonder what is KeSPA stand if losing player whispers 'gg' to opponent and he replies back 'gg'. Is this considered win or lose for winning player?
Hmmm..... this sounds like a troll for bumping a thread that was about "ppp" and not "gg"..... (not to mention the last post was May and it's now 3 months after when you could have made a seperate OP about it...)
But to answer your question, it should be fairly obvious the winner of that game, if someone did that, it would have been made known because they do have a separate FPV screen for each player...
Read OP (it contains information how to end game properly)
Well didn't want to make separate thread just asking this, rather posting it here.
Still I think this is interesting question, though no Pro gamer would not do this because they would lose reputation. But they could always say that they do this practice games a lot.
i dont understand why they had to make strict rules on gg and ppp in the first place. as long as it's clear someone is declaring a loss or asking for a pause it shouldn't matter
EPT
![[image loading]](http://www.fomos.kr/board/issue/1241695286_1.jpg)
They should issue a formal apology to Leta though hahah
