You came in here at your own risk. Don't bitch if you got "zomg wtf dude, you spoiled!!1~~"
Also, if this is in the wrong area or unacceptable close this thread and slap my knuckles. Usually I'm too timid to make threads but my god...
BaBy blew my damn mind. I've never really had much respect for terran players since the BoxeR and Oov-era ended. The games BaBy played against JangBi in GOM were astounding.
At this Point I make a synopsis of the games and Point out parts I'm a fan of. Spoiled because it's a tad long.
I absolutely loved this style of play. He just used all these vultures and dropships coupled with the occasional tank to rape probes and goons. After P gets his bearings and attacks, Baby is low on vultures. Does it matter? No. He sieges 2 tanks in the back and as soon as the unsieged tanks clear up the zealots, he presses "O" then watch the goons splat. Really fun to watch how he handles a low/no vulture game.
Game 1: The way he used and abused his shuttles, splitting up the drops, coming in at different areas constantly while just moving up to 4 base was sick sick sick. I got chills when BaBy dropped 2 vultures while moving to the back of JangBi's nat, laid mines, dropped the tank behind the ridge, then lifted his 2 vultures over the ridge just as the cannon died. I haven't been that impressed by a play in who knows how long.
That recall though... man that was BRILLIANT!! He very well could've gotten recall before stasis knowing that was all he needed to take the game.
Game 2: Similar story, different twist. BaBy goes for his shuttle-play and expand vs JangBi's 12 nex. Does decent damage, but further drops get more or less shut down while Only taking out several goons. At this Point I feel BaBy is behind in the game and am thinking, "This is so over for BaBy. Game 1 must've been a fluke.".
Enter JangBi's 2 Shuttle bull-dog at BaBy's nat. BaBy has a bunker just in time, sieges the right amount of tanks at the right time, and defends more or less without damage taken. From here he just blitzes right to JangBi's nat, locks himself in there with supplies and turrets and after amazing defense to JangBi's last-stand counter aTtacK, the game is over.
Game 3: To be honest, seeing as how A Garden of GOD has the cliffable ridges I thought BaBy was going to abuse that to hell with dropships. Yes, he did get some good drops in but instead of playing his super-aggressive/harass Style we saw earlier, it was simple harass with slow vultures while taking a Hidden expansion.
This expansion coupled with some decent harass gets BaBy all the way into JangBi's base and killing expansions. From here he simply drops some units at "Hidden" JangBi expansions placed in an attempt to Stay in the game. Brilliance.
This is most refreshing for a PvT game. I've always wanted JangBi to win in the games I watch, but BaBy... BaBy deserved this, hands down.
Edit: Also, my reasoning for the title is when I see "[Spoiler] Bisu vs *some scrub* OMG" or something along the lines, I can feel fairly certain that bisu lost the series, or at least dropped a bad game.
Apologies to anybody that I have spoiled (<3 pachi? D=) And if anyone in red wishes to change the title to "[SPOILER] GOM - JangBi vs BaBy" as suggested by pachi in a PM, or anything else, feel free =)
Uhm I don't quite get the OP, it's a BaBy appreciation thread right? Those games were really sick and great, it's like NaDa reborn, tornado Terran v2 featuring dropship play.
Anyway I'd like to ask a question about the strategy in that game but I have a good feeling that it will derail this thread and it's better if I post it in the strategy section.
I think you missed a really nice trick from baby in game 2. The first head on attack from jangbi into babys nat. It was triggered by 2 dropships from baby heading over to jangbis min only nat. baby didn't put units into them to purposedly lure jangbi into this attack. Additionaly baby retreated all but 3 of his tanks back into his main to make it look like only a few tanks were in his nat to defend. Brilliant play
Well, that's what you get from having NaDa and Mind as mentors. BaBys TvP is great, counting in the facts that he beat a StarLeague Finalist, and the one with the best PvT, JangBi. His TvT is yet to be tested but having NaDa and Mind (who produced one of the best TvT in history) as practice partner he'll clean that MU fast.
I hope he makes it to the finals at the most, quarter finals at the least.
Baby's fake drop on Medusa that baited Jangbi was a pimpest play. Splitting units away from the nat to make it appear to be lightly defend and coming in to destroy the attack won the game.
And Skylark. Doesn't necessarily have to be just a Baby appreciation thread. Just discussion on his games vs Jangbi and what to expect from him in the future Just felt I wasn't the only one shocked by his results ^^. When I get excited I like to talk about things =x
I did see the nice trick from baby in game 2. There were a LOT of cute things he did in that game. IE: Pulling a Brat_OK with the wraith, unfortunately all it did was scout =p
another thing on Medusa was clearing the temples and diverting Jangbi's forces to the high ground and then moving in to siege the nat while Jangbi's forces were all out of position. BaBy definitely played brilliantly in that series.
Before this I had thought that Baby was just some dumb mechanical player. But his play, especially in game 3, showed a lot of spark in it. Very impressive, pairing a hidden expansion with a heavy harass focus to divert Jangbi's attention.
Jangbi played like he thought Baby would be a joke though and it definitely cost him. He did the same thing back in the MSL and nearly lost to nada after a joke of a game 1. Pretty characteristic of him but mad props to Baby especially on that mapset.
On April 21 2009 22:22 404.Delirium wrote: And Skylark. Doesn't necessarily have to be just a Baby appreciation thread. Just discussion on his games vs Jangbi and what to expect from him in the future Just felt I wasn't the only one shocked by his results ^^. When I get excited I like to talk about things =x
Oh hahaha, I'm slow today. Yeah there were people who woke up late and were like "wft are the results real". I went for the all P liquibet but I should have known better. Great series from BaBy, I hope it was a Bo5 because it was super amazing.
On April 21 2009 22:22 404.Delirium wrote: And Skylark. Doesn't necessarily have to be just a Baby appreciation thread. Just discussion on his games vs Jangbi and what to expect from him in the future Just felt I wasn't the only one shocked by his results ^^. When I get excited I like to talk about things =x
Oh hahaha, I'm slow today. Yeah there were people who woke up late and were like "wft are the results real". I went for the all P liquibet but I should have known better. Great series from BaBy, I hope it was a Bo5 because it was super amazing.
On April 21 2009 23:28 Showtime! wrote: Your title alone gives away the result. I would title it "GOM SPOILERS" or something else. Leave the big names out of it.
I'm sure, some Jangbi/Samsung fanboys will be upset by this.
Sorry! I'd just woken up and during the writing of OP I thought I was being clever with a non-spoiling title. I edited in an apology and request for title change in the OP.
Deepest apologies, young sirs =(
EDIT: Also, it doesn't help that on the side bar it cuts out and just reads "Jangbi..." rofl. How unfortunate T_T
I just watched this series, and I have a really different take than you, Delirium: JangBi played like garbage. BaBy's drops rarely inflicted enough damage to pay for themselves - especially in game 2 he lost many dropships and vultures without killing a significant amount of probes. As for game 3, he dropped JangBi's main several (3?) times and maybe killed 10 probes. Also, JB's main was already pretty desaturated by the time of the first drop, because his minerals were low there.
As for the "simple harass with slow vultures" you mentioned....I have no idea what you are talking about. Surely you're not referring to the 3 seconds BaBy's first dropship worth of vultures spent in JB's main before the speed upgrade finished (that drop killed maybe 2 or 3 probes btw)?
I did not see dropship play as a deciding factor in this series. BaBy did have nice timings and made some great strategic decisions (wraith in game 3, bunkering JB's backdoor exit in game 2) but I think this series came down to many uncharacteristic mistakes from JangBi.
Game 2 was decided by JB's failed attack on BaBy's nat - this attack seriously delayed JB's natural expansion and inflicted almost no damage. JB also lost many goons in the process, which, combined with his unusual refusal to clear mines with obs, made it impossible for him to break BaBy's push on his nat.
In Game 3, JangBi really did an awful job at deflecting BaBy's push. He left his dragoons to melt to tank fire rather than pulling back when he'd lost all of his zealots (not enough to begin with, a bad unit mix was another problem), did a poor job with placement of storms (used them all at once, over one area right outside BaBy's nat), and even lost what was presumably a shuttle full of zealots without dropping a single bomb.
In general JB's play in this series was frantic and impatient. The bulldog in game 2 was bad, but his 2-shuttle play in game 3 was worse and set him way behind - BaBy's backdoor expo was really well defended, but JB decided to try to shove that attack down his throat anyway. The result was he lost 3 dragoons, 1 shuttle, and a reaver while killing one tank and a few SCVs. Frankly, JangBi looked like he didn't prepare at all for this match, and further that he didn't much care about its outcome. He didn't play like his usual self, right down to bullshit like losing his scouting probe to an SCV in game 3 (I mean...come on).
I guess I have one more thing to say about this series, but this post is already looking tl;dr so I'll put it in a spoiler:
I appreciate Tasteless and Daniel Lee for all the work they've done to make Korean SC more accessible to the foreign audience, but man was the commentary on this series awful. We had garbage like Daniel being legitimately confused as to why BaBy's vultures were moving slowly for a few seconds in game 3 (hello, speed upgrade necessary) and at some points I was tempted to scream at my monitor for either caster to acknowledge NaDa/Mind's potential influence on BaBy.
It seemed neither caster could decide whether BaBy was an idiot or total genius for trying so much dropship play...in general, but especially in game 2, it seemed like Nick/Daniel were either saying "JB is so far ahead right now" or "BaBy is so far ahead right now" without much rhyme or reason.
Most of the commentary was really low level in terms of strategy (that's fine, casters can be fun to listen to just for their passion for the game) but sometimes the casters totally missed clever things the players were doing - for example, in game 3 JangBi rerouted several probes away from the top mineral patches in his main so that he could safely blow up a mine with his zealot. Instead of remarking what a clever micro play that was, Tasteless and Daniel acted shocked he didn't lose any probes and spent a while talking about how risky mines near the mineral line are.
And honestly, anyone who complained about SC2GG's commentators for their overuse of "Bisu Build" should check up on Tasteless and his use of "bulldog" - I swear, it's rare to see him cast a PvT without mentioning this build. He's right using it some of the time but usually...he's just talking about some attack which uses a combination of dragoons and shuttle(s).
That's enough ranting for me. I should say that, though I don't usually enjoy GOM's English commentary, I think it appeals to a really wide audience and has been huge for the popularity of BW (watching and playing alike). Most of my complaints are probably just a product of the fact that Tasteless/DLee's commentary isn't really geared towards hardcore fans (I kind of wish it was, though!). I think Tasteless and Daniel are capable of better, higher-level commentary but just didn't see it in this series.
I appreciate Tasteless and Daniel Lee for all the work they've done to make Korean SC more accessible to the foreign audience, but man was the commentary on this series awful. We had garbage like Daniel being legitimately confused as to why BaBy's vultures were moving slowly for a few seconds in game 3 (hello, speed upgrade necessary) and at some points I was tempted to scream at my monitor for either caster to acknowledge NaDa/Mind's potential influence on BaBy.
It seemed neither caster could decide whether BaBy was an idiot or total genius for trying so much dropship play...in general, but especially in game 2, it seemed like Nick/Daniel were either saying "JB is so far ahead right now" or "BaBy is so far ahead right now" without much rhyme or reason.
Most of the commentary was really low level in terms of strategy (that's fine, casters can be fun to listen to just for their passion for the game) but sometimes the casters totally missed clever things the players were doing - for example, in game 3 JangBi rerouted several probes away from the top mineral patches in his main so that he could safely blow up a mine with his zealot. Instead of remarking what a clever micro play that was, Tasteless and Daniel acted shocked he didn't lose any probes and spent a while talking about how risky mines near the mineral line are.
And honestly, anyone who complained about SC2GG's commentators for their overuse of "Bisu Build" should check up on Tasteless and his use of "bulldog" - I swear, it's rare to see him cast a PvT without mentioning this build. He's right using it some of the time but usually...he's just talking about some attack which uses a combination of dragoons and shuttle(s).
That's enough ranting for me. I should say that, though I don't usually enjoy GOM's English commentary, I think it appeals to a really wide audience and has been huge for the popularity of BW (watching and playing alike). Most of my complaints are probably just a product of the fact that Tasteless/DLee's commentary isn't really geared towards hardcore fans (I kind of wish it was, though!). I think Tasteless and Daniel are capable of better, higher-level commentary but just didn't see it in this series.
On April 22 2009 00:16 404.Delirium wrote: I was referring to baby's first drop on A Garden of GOD where it was just 3 slow vultures because he made cuts to get the sneak expo
So it seems like you were actually referring to "the 3 seconds BaBy's first dropship worth of vultures spent in JB's main before the speed upgrade finished (that drop killed maybe 2 or 3 probes btw)" (quoted from my post above).
...that drop had pretty much no effect on the game, and I'm pretty sure BaBy intended it to coincide with the speed upgrade finishing. BaBy killed maybe a few probes and lost 3 vultures...not really noteworthy, and certainly not an instance of genius play.
On April 22 2009 00:16 404.Delirium wrote: I was referring to baby's first drop on A Garden of GOD where it was just 3 slow vultures because he made cuts to get the sneak expo
So it seems like you were actually referring to "the 3 seconds BaBy's first dropship worth of vultures spent in JB's main before the speed upgrade finished (that drop killed maybe 2 or 3 probes btw)" (quoted from my post above).
...that drop had pretty much no effect on the game, and I'm pretty sure BaBy intended it to coincide with the speed upgrade finishing. BaBy killed maybe a few probes and lost 3 vultures...not really noteworthy, and certainly not an instance of genius play.
I know it didn't tip the game any. I was just spilling words from a tired brain into the box, and for some reason that drop really stuck out
That's S class TvP, too bad his TvT and TvZ is not up to part.
@JWD can you describe the definition of a Bulldog rush and bisu build please?
Comparing SC2gg's overusage of "Bisu build" with tasteless' "Bulldog" is an abysmal reasoning.
the objective of Bisu build is designed to expand and have the ability to do harrassement and easy scouting, As bisu first demonstrated it in his games vs savior.
SCGG commentators use "bisu build" on every protoss fast expo with cannon.
Objective of cannon fast expo does not always have to be harrassment (ex: instead set up a strong +1 speedlot rush, or fast goon reaver combo attack)
On the other hand, the objective of Bulldog is to break a fast expanding terran's defense.
It does not matter what building order, 2 or 3 gateway opening (originally i think bulldog is done with 3gates), does not matter if it is prox robo reaver or no reaver, the objective is the same, break that fucking terran defense, either with shuttle on top of the ramp and goons below, or elevator all goons inside terran main before picking up the reaver. Again the Objective is the same!
all Bisu builds have the same objective, all bulldog build have the same objective, if the objective of the build in question is different from the name associated with, then the commentator made an mistake. Tasteless did not make the mistake as he has focus on the objective of what a protoss can do with the fast shuttle by calling it bulldog.
I think that everyone's going black and white with this, but it more than likely was a middle ground: BaBy played impressively, he had both bad plays and great plays but he ended up playing very well overall, and on top of that, JangBi was not playing at the level that he can, be it because he didnt practice for this tournament very much, or he just had a bad run.
^Bulldog (or 4zeal shuttle, 3 gate goon) being used correctly. (the actual attack starts at 8:05)
It doesn't necessarily have to be breaking the nat. In that vod, Guemchi is breaking Up's wallin (to his main), which is what it's normally used for. After dropping the 4 zealots into his main or nat, you can carry in dragoons to further pressure the opponent.
The build is somewhat "all-in" like, so with bad micro you will probably lose all your units and lose the game. But with good micro, you'll just break the opponent (if he didn't scout the rush coming).
This is the purest, most precise description of a bulldog, but at most the term can be generalized to refer to an early-mid-game attack which is designed to break a Terran base with a combination of dragoons and zealot bombs (no reaver).
Even if Tasteless did use the term correctly (where "correctly" is according to its original definition as above) most of the time, I'd still have a nit simply because it seems like he mentions it in almost every single PvT he casts - it's just strange to hear him mention such a specific strategy when he sees a Protoss with dragoons and a shuttle, since the presence of these units in the early-mid-game rarely means a bulldog is coming.
Again, this post goes with the disclaimers I made in my earlier one.
On April 21 2009 23:52 JWD wrote: Most of the commentary was really low level in terms of strategy (that's fine, casters can be fun to listen to just for their passion for the game) but sometimes the casters totally missed clever things the players were doing - for example, in game 3 JangBi rerouted several probes away from the top mineral patches in his main so that he could safely blow up a mine with his zealot. Instead of remarking what a clever micro play that was, Tasteless and Daniel acted shocked he didn't lose any probes and spent a while talking about how risky mines near the mineral line are.
Your evidence for "REALLY LOW level in terms of strategy" is that they have totally missed clever micros.
your evidence does not support your claim, you have failed to prove "REALLY LOW level in terms of strategy" as microing zealot has nothing to do with strategy
On the other hand
My evidence for high level in terms of strategy happens in many games, i am going to just randomly pick the game i'm watching right now, Modesty vs Anytime game 3.
What tasteless and superdaniel is seeing: Anytime going 1 gate in main fast expo behind base without cannon, and harrase the zerg with the first zealot.
Superdaniel said: 1 gateway plays can be over run by many zerglings especially when the zerg over commits with the defense of early zealot harrase by making too many zerglings.
Nick said: one thing we are seeing is that Anytime is hiding a probe inside zerg base as zerg busy with the zealot, by doing so the protoss can later scout with that probe to make sure nothing tricky is being done by zerg that will fool the protoss.
example 2 What tasteless and daniel see: 2 zerglings leak inside anytime's base, so zealots wasn't Hold position on ramp.
Tasteless said: this could be very bad for protoss as the zerg can rally more and more lings into protoss base with speed upgrade and the protoss has only 1 gate teched + expoed will not be able to survive the zergling onslaughts.
Here both tasteless and superdaniel demonstrated ability to talk about what is happening and relate them to what could happen next, which strategy would be strong in these particular situations. On the example of hidden probes during zealot harrase, tasteless also explained and answered what to do to prevent an zergling allin described by supperdaniel. That probe will see all lings and no drone, therefore anytime will be able to do something about it.
I'm pretty sure i'm doing something useless here defending something does not need to be defend, but in the eyes of the newer members of starcraft community they might have believe Tasteless and Daniellee is "REALLY LOW level in terms of strategy" Which will hinder their understanding of the game, therefore the reason for me posting these is so that noobs know tasteless and Daniel are deep strategically.
I have no intention of typing all these just to prove you wrong in logic. Proving you being wrong in logic is merely an by product of my attempt to save the noobs from misinformation.
I agree. Baby played absolutely brilliantly. You hardly ever see such a consistently high level of mind games and tricky tactics out of a player in a series. Most games you see nowadays are straight forward, conceptually simple games, where the counters and options a player has are obvious. Baby was so entertaining to watch because he was unpredictable, so gathered, so intelligent and so well executed. At that timing, there's no way Jangbi could reasonably expect a hidden expo. It looked exactly like quick third play. The wraith was brilliantly calculated. He had planned to go dropship but timed it so he has the option of countering reaver play. Also, hiding and baiting the shuttle in for the wraith to kill was also brilliant, even if it almost didn't work out for him.
He played incredibly unpredictably and he really thought about every decision he was making. The only real problem in his play that I saw was that it was a common theme for his resources to get to 1500/1400 during a lot of these plays. If he can macro a bit better while still playing these intense harass games and playing as intelligently as he did in this series, then I think he's easily got a shot at a power-rank very soon.
@ 404 Nintu,I checked out his records, his tvt and tvz is not as good as his tvp, base ont hat i think he might need some more work before he can be a major player
On April 22 2009 07:37 rei wrote: @ 404 Nintu,I checked out his records, his tvt and tvz is not as good as his tvp, base ont hat i think he might need some more work before he can be a major player
But his previous TvP's weren't as impressive as vs Jangbi. Improvement like this is all about momentum, and I think that's something he has right now. The difference between his old and new is like night and day. I really think he has what it takes.
rei you're right I didn't give much evidence to back up the claim that the commentary was fairly low-level in terms of strategy insight...I felt the post was already long enough and most people would know what I was talking about. The probe micro instance I mentioned as an example, not a fact that was meant to carry the entire argument.
On April 22 2009 07:22 rei wrote: I'm pretty sure i'm doing something useless here defending something does not need to be defend, but in the eyes of the newer members of starcraft community they might have believe Tasteless and Daniellee is "REALLY LOW level in terms of strategy" Which will hinder their understanding of the game, therefore the reason for me posting these is so that noobs know tasteless and Daniel are deep strategically.
I have no intention of typing all these just to prove you wrong in logic. Proving you being wrong in logic is merely an by product of my attempt to save the noobs from misinformation.
That's pretty much right in line with what I said in the first place:
I should say that, though I don't usually enjoy GOM's English commentary, I think it appeals to a really wide audience and has been huge for the popularity of BW (watching and playing alike). Most of my complaints are probably just a product of the fact that Tasteless/DLee's commentary isn't really geared towards hardcore fans (I kind of wish it was, though!). I think Tasteless and Daniel are capable of better, higher-level commentary but just didn't see it in this series.
Anyway this is getting pretty off-topic, so if you want to talk about it more we should just use PMs
Those games were really entertaining. Baby outsmarted Jangbi but his mechanics seemed to be a little bit off- at some times you could just see that he has resources piling up while doing all the fancy stuff, forgot scanners and also had a lot of idle workers. His play was far from perfect.
On April 22 2009 06:49 rei wrote: @JWD can you describe the definition of a Bulldog rush and bisu build please?
I don't know what the hell this new definition for "bulldog" is, but it's sure not the original one. The real bulldog build was named after a Korean player by the same name back in 2003 or so. It was a pvt build centered around speeding up tech in lieu of dragoons. The robotics would always be built before the first dragoon, and the discretion of the protoss would determine how it branched from there. Sometimes one goon would be made after the robo, other times no goons at all would be made until the buildings were down. Either way, the protoss always ended up with 3 gateways, dragoon range, and observer tech. Back in this era, there was no "FD" rush, and terrans would do a slower rush if they went 2 fact. The third gate made up for the lack of early goons, and it was easy to hold the ramp against the terran rush (remember, everyone played on LT during these days, so you always had the ramp advantage).
At this point, the protoss already had a robo and 3 gates, so he could easily make a shuttle and 3 zeals and counter (I think this is where the current definition stems from). The other option was simply to double expand to the natural/min-only and just overrun the terran economically.
Nowadays, any sort of shuttle + goon attack is blanketed under the term "bulldog," but the original build was more than just an attack.
On April 22 2009 07:07 JWD wrote: Even if Tasteless did use the term correctly (where "correctly" is according to its original definition as above) most of the time, I'd still have a nit simply because it seems like he mentions it in almost every single PvT he casts - it's just strange to hear him mention such a specific strategy when he sees a Protoss with dragoons and a shuttle, since the presence of these units in the early-mid-game rarely means a bulldog is coming.
I didn't want to reply to this as my original post already covered my reasoning. However I just want to point out something tasteless and Daniel said during Game1 of Baby vs Jangbi.
Tasteless said that Baby is very young, and because he's that young the way he learn about starcraft is most likely follow what coaches told him to do. Which will create some kind of macro bot. And tasteless also pointed out that Baby might not have the innovation to create his own style simply because baby was fed macro by coaches.
as new players are feed by their mentors with "builds" i couldn't help but ponder what tasteless was talking about, because like JWD many people are pointing to a building order to define a build. I want to talk about the definition of a build. My argument is that a build is not absolute, by absolute i mean a build does not have to follow a strict number of units or building at a certain timing, based on the progress of every single game a build have different adaptation for more than one scenarios. Maybe your understanding of the game is not high enough to see what tasteless is getting at, maybe I am misunderstanding you, let me point out to you that what you have Quoted "bulldog build" is only 1 variation of the entire build that only fits one scenario. Tasteless even mentioned in Game 1 of Major vs Reach that protoss does various versions of the shuttle play in early to mid game, signifying that the Bulldog build is not absolute.
And then compare to the Fantasy build when he played jeadong in osl final,
and then compare to the fantasy build when he played during proleague,
"Fantasy build" in our discussion is not absolute. flexibility innovation and variations all depend on different maps, opponents, and scouting information. A build is not what you think it is (a fixed number of units and timing) , it is not an building order, an building order is only an small part of a build.
Baby had the BEST harass play i have ever seen. Like everyone else, I was just like 2-0 JANGBI NEXT but even though he lost that first game, I was like "Man, we are going to see one of the best series' ever."
Hats off to baby for the most insane dropship pvt play I've seen in a live game.
Those were some really entertaining TvPs. At first, I thought Baby was hyped only because he was so young. Now I know the truth. He's hyped because he's damn good
He still has a lot to prove but it's gonna be fun seeing him grow as a player
i really enjoyed baby´s plays here, they where really good in alot of aspects. he still has a few rough edges but overall he made a good impression. When i first saw him on gom he failed to even register on my radar =) but that has sertainly changed.
i know this is outrageous, but for some reason i got a jaedong multitasking wibe from baby. but what do i know xD im a total noob.
Well he said TvP is his best match up, and he trained with the likes of Mind, Nada, and Casy..and he was picked by pantech over flash, not suprising too much he has some skill. I too was really supirised by his level of play and his mind games,, but I feel Jangbis play wasnt fear inspiring like usual. Hopefully baby picks up his TvZ, and he could be a real contender.
Jangbi and Stork lost because their team realized the tourney wasn't sanctioned by kespa and didn't want to make a bit fuss like ogn/skt1 and just "lost" on purpose?
On April 22 2009 12:25 peidongyang wrote: Jangbi and Stork lost because their team realized the tourney wasn't sanctioned by kespa and didn't want to make a bit fuss like ogn/skt1 and just "lost" on purpose?
Nah, I think January told them to drop the last two games because she didn't want them wasting their time in a tournament that is not prestigious.
Yeah, I mean it's not like they just didn't practice for it, but actually tried to lose. I mean Jangbi could have easily won against the level of play Baby showed. amirite? /s
Wow. A bit late to the party, because I was waiting for vods, but I was shocked at well baby played. Everything moving constantly. Sure, he let some of his macro play drop, but he just kept dropping.
Jangbi played art as well. Which made it so impressive. He did just about everything right and got beat.
On April 22 2009 11:09 mog87 wrote: Well he said TvP is his best match up, and he trained with the likes of Mind, Nada, and Casy..and he was picked by pantech over flash, not suprising too much he has some skill. I too was really supirised by his level of play and his mind games,, but I feel Jangbis play wasnt fear inspiring like usual. Hopefully baby picks up his TvZ, and he could be a real contender.
Yeah, try to imagine how unbeatable he would be without the help of casy in tvp.
Baby has been showing promise...even the match he lost recently in PL showed fairly strong play by him on a Z>>>>>>>>T map...I just can't recall the name...oh god...
On April 23 2009 08:56 PH wrote: Baby has been showing promise...even the match he lost recently in PL showed fairly strong play by him on a Z>>>>>>>>T map...I just can't recall the name...oh god...
I was wondering why Tasteless/Superdanielman mentioned that Jangbi had the best practice partner (Stork) but didn't mention the fact that Baby had NaDa (I forgot about mind. =.=)
When I first started watching progaming, I was always under the impression that there were gamers who'd harass at several locations while multitasking perfectly (macroing from all production buildings while controlling several harassing units at different locations.)
I thought this was supposed to be common, but I don't ever remember seeing multi-location harass until I saw Baby's play, but that's not to say that I'm not impressed, since I didn't see this type of play from anyone else. Having failed at multi-location harass myself, I know how hard it can be.
Are there any other vods which show this type of multitasking? Are there any progamers that are able to harass in several locations while maintaining production/management that I somehow don't know about?
On April 21 2009 23:52 JWD wrote: I just watched this series, and I have a really different take than you, Delirium: JangBi played like garbage. ... I think this series came down to many uncharacteristic mistakes from JangBi.
In general JB's play in this series was frantic and impatient. ... Frankly, JangBi looked like he didn't prepare at all for this match, and further that he didn't much care about its outcome. He didn't play like his usual self, right down to bullshit like losing his scouting probe to an SCV in game 3 (I mean...come on).
I didn't quote your entire post, JWD, but I want you to know that I value all of your opinions.
The portions of your post that I left in the quote above are what I want to zero in on: it really seems like the pressure on KeSPA from OGN, MBC, and IEG is crushing GOM. If Jangbi didn't prepare, it's because he didn't care, it wasn't important to him.
This could play out in one of two ways that I can imagine: 1) Since it's an individual tournament, the star players might dislike having their fans seeing them drop games to far inferior opponents,
OR
2) [more likely] the players and teams who are the losers in this now less-than-prestigious tournament will spin the results as being due to the inferior quality of the tournament, resulting in a net loss of respect for GOM and its tournament. GOM will become a place for rookies to prove themselves to each other but not to the stars. (The four teams that flat-out refused to participate don't even need to worry about any of this!)
p.s. There's been some confusion, so I want to specify: I'm NOT 404.Delirium, the guy who started this thread, I'm a different guy, with a differently spelled name (delirium is the actual word, while Delerium is a band)
On April 27 2009 00:20 Delerium wrote: 2) [more likely] the players and teams who are the losers in this now less-than-prestigious tournament will spin the results as being due to the inferior quality of the tournament, resulting in a net loss of respect for GOM and its tournament. GOM will become a place for rookies to prove themselves to each other but not to the stars. (The four teams that flat-out refused to participate don't even need to worry about any of this!)
I don't think this will happen. It's not the place of the players or teams to denounce a perfectly legitimate tournament like GOM, and certainly outside the (well-adhered to) rules of common Korean decency (players don't make excuses for their losses, and certainly wouldn't go as far as to criticize an entire tournament).
In a sense GOM already is a place for rookies to improve themselves...the participating teams even reached into their B-teams to fill the Ro128 slots, and the few seeded players clearly do not prepare specifically for the tournament.
But yes, I do agree that the reason we are seeing so many upsets in GOM and the reason teams chose not to participate is that, on top of PL, MSL, and OSL, it makes practice schedules too tight. In SC scheduling at a certain point less is more, because without enough practice time it's not possible to perform in any league. Teams and players are wise to try to focus on the more prestigious events.
Are there any other vods which show this type of multitasking? Are there any progamers that are able to harass in several locations while maintaining production/management that I somehow don't know about?
Nada dropped his Zerg opponent in FOUR (yes that's 4) places SIMULTANEOUSLY, in a televised match. That's 1 dropship to each of 4 expos/mains, and he stimmed and attacked with all his marines, even microing against lurkers in one place of two. If I remember correctly it was an island map, I don't remember the name of the game though... iirc it was a game changing move, nada's last hope ^^
Are there any other vods which show this type of multitasking? Are there any progamers that are able to harass in several locations while maintaining production/management that I somehow don't know about?
Nada dropped his Zerg opponent in FOUR (yes that's 4) places SIMULTANEOUSLY, in a televised match. That's 1 dropship to each of 4 expos/mains, and he stimmed and attacked with all his marines, even microing against lurkers in one place of two. If I remember correctly it was an island map, I don't remember the name of the game though... iirc it was a game changing move, nada's last hope ^^
i think that was a replay on luna. I think its on tl rep section. Nada vs jy.
Are there any other vods which show this type of multitasking? Are there any progamers that are able to harass in several locations while maintaining production/management that I somehow don't know about?
Nada dropped his Zerg opponent in FOUR (yes that's 4) places SIMULTANEOUSLY, in a televised match. That's 1 dropship to each of 4 expos/mains, and he stimmed and attacked with all his marines, even microing against lurkers in one place of two. If I remember correctly it was an island map, I don't remember the name of the game though... iirc it was a game changing move, nada's last hope ^^
Are you sure you're not thinking of this game with Boxer?
Are there any other vods which show this type of multitasking? Are there any progamers that are able to harass in several locations while maintaining production/management that I somehow don't know about?
Nada dropped his Zerg opponent in FOUR (yes that's 4) places SIMULTANEOUSLY, in a televised match. That's 1 dropship to each of 4 expos/mains, and he stimmed and attacked with all his marines, even microing against lurkers in one place of two. If I remember correctly it was an island map, I don't remember the name of the game though... iirc it was a game changing move, nada's last hope ^^
Wait.. that was on Luna? The move is in the movie "Nada - Master of puppets" by Spitfire
On April 29 2009 00:38 [DUF]MethodMan wrote: As mentioned above, Boxer on 815 against Chojja
No it wasn't. That is a different game, I am 100% sure.
Nada did it in late game, and btw, iirc, boxer although displaying mind-numbing control and tactics did not drop 4 places AT ONCE. Rather he kept dropping one or two locations in quick fashion, giving chojja no time to breathe/regroup/understand WTF was going on. It was pimp, but Nada did it in a different game. It MAY have been on Luna, but I'm not sure
On April 21 2009 23:52 JWD wrote: I just watched this series, and I have a really different take than you, Delirium: JangBi played like garbage. ... I think this series came down to many uncharacteristic mistakes from JangBi.
In general JB's play in this series was frantic and impatient. ... Frankly, JangBi looked like he didn't prepare at all for this match, and further that he didn't much care about its outcome. He didn't play like his usual self, right down to bullshit like losing his scouting probe to an SCV in game 3 (I mean...come on).
I didn't quote your entire post, JWD, but I want you to know that I value all of your opinions.
The portions of your post that I left in the quote above are what I want to zero in on: it really seems like the pressure on KeSPA from OGN, MBC, and IEG is crushing GOM. If Jangbi didn't prepare, it's because he didn't care, it wasn't important to him.
This could play out in one of two ways that I can imagine: 1) Since it's an individual tournament, the star players might dislike having their fans seeing them drop games to far inferior opponents,
OR
2) [more likely] the players and teams who are the losers in this now less-than-prestigious tournament will spin the results as being due to the inferior quality of the tournament, resulting in a net loss of respect for GOM and its tournament. GOM will become a place for rookies to prove themselves to each other but not to the stars. (The four teams that flat-out refused to participate don't even need to worry about any of this!)
p.s. There's been some confusion, so I want to specify: I'm NOT 404.Delirium, the guy who started this thread, I'm a different guy, with a differently spelled name (delirium is the actual word, while Delerium is a band)
Doubtful. GOM offers a significant prize pool...it will always be competitive because of that. I do remember players saying that GOM had a bit more of a relaxed atmosphere, but still, no one is going to toss games on it just because they don't think it's important enough.
My bet is Jangbi simply underestimated his opponent and was a bit off balance that day. Baby, however, was on.
EPT
Just felt I wasn't the only one shocked by his results ^^. When I get excited I like to talk about things =x
![[image loading]](http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/4029/babydrop.jpg)
