EPTpretty sure my teammates and i did all of these regularly back in 1999 playing bgh and lost temple.
[Q] Brood War History Lesson - Page 2
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dirtnap
United States20 Posts
pretty sure my teammates and i did all of these regularly back in 1999 playing bgh and lost temple. | ||
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CharlieMurphy
United States22895 Posts
On March 23 2009 11:52 Ideas wrote: didn't july invent microing mutas back and forth to keep momentum, and then shark found out that if you group it with something offscreen they perfectly stack (before that you had to constantly click on like minerals to clump them together)? something like that. | ||
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OnceKing
United States939 Posts
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fearus
China2164 Posts
On March 23 2009 10:56 Tom Phoenix wrote: I thought Zileas is the one credited with the Reaver Shuttle micro? + Show Spoiler + The reaver drop was popularized in tournament games in 1998 by the player known on Battle.net as Zileas, then an underclassman at MIT, whose quickness with coordinating the reavers and shuttles were described as "like a shuttle that fires scarabs". This technique effectively prevented many ground-attack units from engaging the reaver, since it could drop, shoot and load back into the shuttle before they could counter-attack. The developers of Starcraft, in a later patch, responded to this by introducing a short delay to prevent the reaver from opening fire as soon as it hit the ground. Source: StrategyWiki This is correct. Zileas did it back in vanilla starcraft and wayyy before the korean scene got established. | ||
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malathion
United States362 Posts
2. Zileas :D 3. Nada 4. July 5. ?? 6. savior 7. ?? 8. ?? Hard to attribute this to one player as its not really a strategy 9. Boxer I think Zileas was the one who originally worked out how much it is worth to kill the enemy peons, demonstrating with some formula that the economic impact of each worker killed increases geometrically, due to the time required to rebuild them. (If this is not clear, ask and I'll provide a more detailed explanation.) By proving that the economic damage of a worker raid was far, far greater than the minerals required to rebuild the workers, Zileas lead to an overthrow of the brutish "old school" macro style of the Warcraft II players, who would simply spam workers and units without regard to defending their mineral line, in favor of a more tech-intensive "New school" style that emphasized micromanagement of high-tech Protoss units to deal massive damage to the enemy economy. | ||
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Warrior Madness
Canada3791 Posts
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Fontong
United States6454 Posts
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malathion
United States362 Posts
This guy also traces the history of some other ideas that are now common sense, such as keeping your units in formation when moving them across the map, "Doom drops", and the idea of conserving your "concentration resources", ie, knowing when its important to watch a battle and when it isn't, and designing your strategy to tax your opponent's multitasking ability. Keep in mind that these articles were published IIRC more than 9 years ago. Some of Zileas' thinking about StarCraft is badly dated; and some of this thinking is absolutely prophetic, and predates the re-invention of these strategies in South Korea by several years Here's one of the old strategy articles by Zileas. : http://www.geocities.com/starcraftstrats/generaleconomics.html His infamous Reaver strategy: http://www.geocities.com/starcraftstrats/protossreavertrick.html Doom drops: http://www.geocities.com/starcraftstrats/protossdoomdrop.html Goon/reaver build orders in PvP: http://www.geocities.com/starcraftstrats/protossgoons.html (even includes contingencies for dark templar rushes!) Troop formations, shift-queueing and target firing, and "shallow encirclement" aka forming melee units in semi-circles (!): http://www.geocities.com/starcraftstrats/generalunitformation.html How to use scouts :D http://www.geocities.com/starcraftstrats/protossusingscouts.html Anti-reaver for Protoss: http://www.geocities.com/starcraftstrats/protossantireaver.html Cannon pushing on island maps: http://www.geocities.com/starcraftstrats/protosscannonpush.html How to win PvP on islands: http://www.geocities.com/starcraftstrats/protossvprotossisland.html How to win PvZ on islands: http://www.geocities.com/starcraftstrats/protossvzergisland.html Very fun to read these, kind of a time capsule into the older way of thinking, to see what has been preserved and what has been discarded. I wonder if Scouts are actually still viable on island maps? | ||
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hku
169 Posts
IntotheRainbow was one of the first to really start relying on reavers exclusively to beat terran players; his game where he wins vs goodfriend with only reavers and high templar harass is a "best games" compilation staple. Stork took the reaver and slowly developed in the monty-hall/python era using reavers to delay timing attacks (that were popular pre-flash tvp) while teching to carriers. it used to involve transitioning into a ground army and then multiple expos to carriers, but after some refinement, he developed the infamous 2-base carrier that any decent protoss (ie even therock) could use to rape all terrans(except mind, forgg, hwasin) easy. 4. Muta Micro discovered by shark, abused by July, standardized by jaedong Yellow/july/gorush era zergs would still use the clicking on minerals trick to stack mutas(used mostly as a surprise like in modern zvp), but the endless amount of clips of july raping mineral lines in zvt way back when changed the way muta's were looked at forever. savior made it possible to use muta's every game in zvt as a way to reach lurker and hive tech. jaedong made zvt look imba with his 12 or so zvt streak during the tau cross era. shortly after the 3 hatch muta was standardized by jaedong, yarnc decided that he was going to fuck macro games and just rely only on 2 hatch muta micro to break terrans(this was developed even further into variations like 2 hatch muta->expand or 2 hatch muta+lurker very recently by luxury). 5. Goon Micro Most protosses were all able to do this trick, but very few used it in live games. Free was one of the first protoss to consistently use this trick in live games. Even most gamers though Free was being unreasonably reckless, until it was clear that his goon micro vs mines were winning him games under 10 min in proleague around the late life of python. 8. stasis Arbiter were basically lost after the FD era until Flash era tvp. Midas famously said that any protoss who goes abiters are doing him a favor. It was the birth of flash's double armory build on katrina/blue storm that caused stork to cry "IMBA" and cry after his 3rd major league silver. Bisu would try valiantly in the OSL to defeat Flash with some surprise arbiter builds, but it was Janbi and Best who introduced arbiters as standard play in pvt. Thanks to the storm dropping/abiter play along with the refocus on the macro style by best that recently shifted the favor back to protoss in pvt. 1. Guerilla warfare drops (storm, reaver,dt, vulture, luker) boxer's vulture play vs protoss was largely forgotten once OOv decided that all he needed was bad-ass macro to beat protoss. Vultures were used sparingly in the hwasin's timing approach to gauge timings and do some harass if possible. Flash's style also sparingly use vultures to turn around game where he's behind and also locate the protoss army. Mind and Fantasy brought back a hybrid style of heavy vulture harass/timing tvp but mostly are the only practitioner of the style. Again, intotherainbow really brought reavers to the forefront of pvt, and stork made builds revolving around it. the infamous bisu build (nex first->corsair->dt) was standardized in the gomtv msl finals vs savior. He would continue to be at the forefront of pvz with refining reaver/ht harassment. 2. Terran pushes (or did terran always naturally create pushes) specifically things such as Han Ban (or however u spell it), Gundum rush and things of that nature but not limited can also b very broad if you search for the history of the pvt match up, they have an unbelievably detailed description of the terran push(all kinds) info that i find useful: terran:_________________zerg______________________________protoss Boxer - micro____________yellow - understood larva usage________garimto - micro nada - management______july - low econ zerg___________________nal_ra - unpredictabilty/mind games oov - macro_____________gorush - unpredictablity/mind games____reach - macro midas - fd hwasin - timing__________savior - 3 hatchery/macro zerg_________stork - reaver/carrier flash - double armory______jaedong - muta micro_______________bisu - fe fantasy - mech vs zerg_____________________________________jangbi/best - macro/storm/arbiter | ||
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malathion
United States362 Posts
[B]it was Janbi and Best who introduced arbiters as standard play in pvt. I've heard this is almost unanimously attributed to Best, who would pump constant arbiters against terran, sometimes out of two stargates. Is JangBi a pioneer of this strategy or did he just know a good thing when he saw it? | ||
Arrian
United States889 Posts
On March 23 2009 10:56 Tom Phoenix wrote: I thought Zileas is the one credited with the Reaver Shuttle micro? + Show Spoiler + The reaver drop was popularized in tournament games in 1998 by the player known on Battle.net as Zileas, then an underclassman at MIT, whose quickness with coordinating the reavers and shuttles were described as "like a shuttle that fires scarabs". This technique effectively prevented many ground-attack units from engaging the reaver, since it could drop, shoot and load back into the shuttle before they could counter-attack. The developers of Starcraft, in a later patch, responded to this by introducing a short delay to prevent the reaver from opening fire as soon as it hit the ground. Source: StrategyWiki Zileas popularized the placing of reavers in shuttles. Before the game was patched, Zileas terrorized Terrans with the instant, what he calls, 'reaver-popping'. He stopped doing it after a patch took away the magical ability of scarabs to be shot, for all intents and purposes, from shuttles, and it became a lot harder to do. Rainbow and other gosus then figured out how to do it, with less effect of course than reaver-popping, and still make it pretty effective. | ||
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DrTJEckleburg
United States1080 Posts
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malathion
United States362 Posts
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Ilikestarcraft
Korea (South)17743 Posts
On March 24 2009 14:08 malathion wrote: I've heard this is almost unanimously attributed to Best, who would pump constant arbiters against terran, sometimes out of two stargates. Is JangBi a pioneer of this strategy or did he just know a good thing when he saw it? Pusan was the one who started it best/bisu i would consider the ones who popularized it. Also i dont think it was the pros who invented goon micro. I remember seeing the term goon dancing from a long time ago. The trick with killing mines with hold position i dont know who introduced it but free vs up was probably the game which really popularized it. | ||
GTR
51607 Posts
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Ilikestarcraft
Korea (South)17743 Posts
I always considered stork the one who popularized 2 base reaver into carrier -_-. Not really too sure. All these games i watched are all jumbled in my head. | ||
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malathion
United States362 Posts
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Boblion
France8043 Posts
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gk_ender
United States717 Posts
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xhuwin
United States476 Posts
On March 24 2009 13:19 Fontong wrote: I remember my dad did pushes back in 1999, I could never stop them so I just went carriers every time. Your dad played SC with you? TT wish I had that :|. I'll play sc with my kids... Corsair reaver is definitely Nal_ra | ||
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