Ive been searching the forums looking for information on the beginings of brood war as to compile a history of broodwar.. There are some very specific things i wish to know and if you guys could teach me I would greatly apreciate it. I might as well create a list (may grow as questions arise) 1st on the list is the several types of modern uses we find in units or micro that have been fine tuned with units. I would like to know who started the trend and then who is most famous for modernizing or perfecting the style. 1. Medic Marine micro (Boxer I think) 2. Reaver shuttle micro 3. Vulture micro 4. Muta Micro 5. Goon Micro 6.Plague and Dark Swarm 7. Maelstrom and Storm 8. Archon morping/ Lurker egg/ stasis ramp blocks 9. The terran eraser vs zerg (eradiated science vessel) Next is a list of types of tactics, who was the first to come up with these tactics, and again who modernized and perfected the styles we see today. 1. Guerilla warfare drops (storm, reaver,dt, vulture, luker) 2. Terran pushes (or did terran always naturally create pushes) specifically things such as Han Ban (or however u spell it), Gundum rush and things of that nature but not limited can also b very broad 3. Doom drops (zerg) 4. Cannon rushes
Finally is specific builds, this I wont generate a list for unless I can't find a specific one, but great modern examples of this would b the bisu build or the fantasy/oov/boxer mech build vs zerg. And also things u take for granted like 2 base carrier ect. And final note people who have contributed something large to the game, for example the bonjwas (I don't need information on this theres enough out there) like how nada revolutionized macro style, or savior for map control ect.
As i said before more questions will come as I begin gathering information for my current project. Sry if this post seems annoying but I was gathering information and I figured I'd ask the experts.
Also any important historical facts that u guys wanna add would be awesome, I promise to post the results of this research.
and for tactics I'm not sure. maybe reach since he was known for good storms (not sure about storm drops though, his were more about storming the opponent's army)
On March 23 2009 10:26 haz wrote: 1. Boxer 2. IntoTheRainbow 3. NaDa 4. Julyzerg 5. don't know
and for tactics I'm not sure. maybe reach since he was known for good storms (not sure about storm drops though, his were more about storming the opponent's army)
Shark actually discoverd modern muta-micro Julyzerg gets credit for it because Hwasin was noob in the ODT.
Also Free is probably the player most famous for Dragoon micro, I think he figured out how to clear mine fields w/o obs.
1.boxer actually nvm could have been sync too 2.rainbow 3.dont know and is probably impossible to find out 4.first time i ever saw it was from july 5.dont know and is probably impossible to find out 6.h_paul_wii (probably the biggest amateur who had an impact on bw tactic wise for z) 7.dont know and is probably impossible to find out 8.dont know and is probably impossible to find out
dont know and is probably impossible to find out = most of the things you are trying to find were probably achieved by practice/tests within proteams so its hard to say if they were started by 1 specific player(could also be coachs and stuff), for example the most standard tvp b.o which used to be the 6-7 rine 1 tank + mine into exp b.o was started by skt1
The reaver drop was popularized in tournament games in 1998 by the player known on Battle.net as Zileas, then an underclassman at MIT, whose quickness with coordinating the reavers and shuttles were described as "like a shuttle that fires scarabs". This technique effectively prevented many ground-attack units from engaging the reaver, since it could drop, shoot and load back into the shuttle before they could counter-attack. The developers of Starcraft, in a later patch, responded to this by introducing a short delay to prevent the reaver from opening fire as soon as it hit the ground.
On March 23 2009 10:18 gk_ender wrote: 1. Medic Marine micro (Boxer I think) 2. Reaver shuttle micro 3. Vulture micro 4. Muta Micro 5. Goon Micro 6.Plague and Dark Swarm 7. Maelstrom and Storm 8. Archon morping/ Lurker egg/ stasis ramp blocks Next is a list of types of tactics, who was the first to come up with these tactics, and again who modernized and perfected the styles we see today. 1. Guerilla warfare drops (storm, reaver,dt, vulture, luker) 2. Terran pushes (or did terran always naturally create pushes) specifically things such as Han Ban (or however u spell it), Gundum rush and things of that nature but not limited can also b very broad 3. Doom drops (zerg) 4. Cannon rushes
1. Boxer 2. Rainbow 3. NaDa 4. Shark 5. Giyom 6. Modernizing/innovating no idea, but the guy who perfected this IMO is Savior. 7. Giyom was one of the first to use DAs and Maelstrom correctly, IIRC. Could be Reach. 8. No idea.
Tactics: 1. No idea 2. Midas? Gundam rush is obv V-Gundam... maybe you could put Joyo in here? 3. Hong Jin Ho manly Storm Zerg 4. Nal_rA? No idea but his cannon rushes come into mind, specifically his great cannon placement.
Builds: You can put A LOT of stuff here, but here are some builds actually named for people: 1. Gundam/Bamboo rush - V-Gundam 2. Joyo rush 3. SK Terran - Seul Ki/SoulKey 4. Flash builds (TvP Katrina, 9:00 push TvZ, etc.) 5. Bisu build
On March 23 2009 10:26 haz wrote: 1. Boxer 2. IntoTheRainbow 3. NaDa 4. Julyzerg 5. don't know
and for tactics I'm not sure. maybe reach since he was known for good storms (not sure about storm drops though, his were more about storming the opponent's army)
Shark actually discoverd modern muta-micro Julyzerg gets credit for it because Hwasin was noob in the ODT.
Also Free is probably the player most famous for Dragoon micro, I think he figured out how to clear mine fields w/o obs.
he wasnt noob, he just didnt practice vs that good of a muta harass and didnt really know how ti fight the imba mutas.
On March 23 2009 10:18 gk_ender wrote: 1. Medic Marine micro (Boxer I think) 2. Reaver shuttle micro 3. Vulture micro 4. Muta Micro 5. Goon Micro 6.Plague and Dark Swarm 7. Maelstrom and Storm 8. Archon morping/ Lurker egg/ stasis ramp blocks Next is a list of types of tactics, who was the first to come up with these tactics, and again who modernized and perfected the styles we see today. 1. Guerilla warfare drops (storm, reaver,dt, vulture, luker) 2. Terran pushes (or did terran always naturally create pushes) specifically things such as Han Ban (or however u spell it), Gundum rush and things of that nature but not limited can also b very broad 3. Doom drops (zerg) 4. Cannon rushes
1. Boxer 2. IntoTheRainBOw 7. GiYoM was the first to use maelstrom in a pro game (versus Zerglee)
GiYoM created a lot of little tricks we use today. He also created basic Protoss essentially, the 8p/10gate/11assim/13cyber was created by him. Most fast expand strategies were also used first by him. He used 14 nexus (or something very similar) vs. HOT-Forever way back then.
On March 23 2009 10:56 Tom Phoenix wrote: I thought Zileas is the one credited with the Reaver Shuttle micro?
The reaver drop was popularized in tournament games in 1998 by the player known on Battle.net as Zileas, then an underclassman at MIT, whose quickness with coordinating the reavers and shuttles were described as "like a shuttle that fires scarabs". This technique effectively prevented many ground-attack units from engaging the reaver, since it could drop, shoot and load back into the shuttle before they could counter-attack. The developers of Starcraft, in a later patch, responded to this by introducing a short delay to prevent the reaver from opening fire as soon as it hit the ground.
I believe his reaver drop was more just a doom drop (bunch of other shuttles with other units in it, including reaver). I think we are talking more about who popularized it/was best at it.
On March 23 2009 10:40 iamtt1 wrote: 1.boxer actually nvm could have been sync too 2.rainbow 3.dont know and is probably impossible to find out 4.first time i ever saw it was from july 5.dont know and is probably impossible to find out 6.h_paul_wii (probably the biggest amateur who had an impact on bw tactic wise for z) 7.dont know and is probably impossible to find out 8.dont know and is probably impossible to find out
dont know and is probably impossible to find out = most of the things you are trying to find were probably achieved by practice/tests within proteams so its hard to say if they were started by 1 specific player(could also be coachs and stuff), for example the most standard tvp b.o which used to be the 6-7 rine 1 tank + mine into exp b.o was started by skt1
There's a difference between who used it first and who made it standard in a pro game. The problem is, the people often don't know the former and it will probably get miscredited.
didn't july invent microing mutas back and forth to keep momentum, and then shark found out that if you group it with something offscreen they perfectly stack (before that you had to constantly click on like minerals to clump them together)?
On March 23 2009 11:52 Ideas wrote: didn't july invent microing mutas back and forth to keep momentum, and then shark found out that if you group it with something offscreen they perfectly stack (before that you had to constantly click on like minerals to clump them together)?
I believed Boxer stated in his autobiography that previous to his playing terran, many terran users did not use vultures much and pushed with mm+tank, so it's possible that you could credit vulture harass to him.
The reaver drop was popularized in tournament games in 1998 by the player known on Battle.net as Zileas, then an underclassman at MIT, whose quickness with coordinating the reavers and shuttles were described as "like a shuttle that fires scarabs". This technique effectively prevented many ground-attack units from engaging the reaver, since it could drop, shoot and load back into the shuttle before they could counter-attack. The developers of Starcraft, in a later patch, responded to this by introducing a short delay to prevent the reaver from opening fire as soon as it hit the ground.
1. Boxer 2. Zileas :D 3. Nada 4. July 5. ?? 6. savior 7. ?? 8. ?? Hard to attribute this to one player as its not really a strategy 9. Boxer
I think Zileas was the one who originally worked out how much it is worth to kill the enemy peons, demonstrating with some formula that the economic impact of each worker killed increases geometrically, due to the time required to rebuild them. (If this is not clear, ask and I'll provide a more detailed explanation.) By proving that the economic damage of a worker raid was far, far greater than the minerals required to rebuild the workers, Zileas lead to an overthrow of the brutish "old school" macro style of the Warcraft II players, who would simply spam workers and units without regard to defending their mineral line, in favor of a more tech-intensive "New school" style that emphasized micromanagement of high-tech Protoss units to deal massive damage to the enemy economy.
This guy also traces the history of some other ideas that are now common sense, such as keeping your units in formation when moving them across the map, "Doom drops", and the idea of conserving your "concentration resources", ie, knowing when its important to watch a battle and when it isn't, and designing your strategy to tax your opponent's multitasking ability. Keep in mind that these articles were published IIRC more than 9 years ago. Some of Zileas' thinking about StarCraft is badly dated; and some of this thinking is absolutely prophetic, and predates the re-invention of these strategies in South Korea by several years
Very fun to read these, kind of a time capsule into the older way of thinking, to see what has been preserved and what has been discarded. I wonder if Scouts are actually still viable on island maps?
2. Reaver shuttle micro IntotheRainbow was one of the first to really start relying on reavers exclusively to beat terran players; his game where he wins vs goodfriend with only reavers and high templar harass is a "best games" compilation staple. Stork took the reaver and slowly developed in the monty-hall/python era using reavers to delay timing attacks (that were popular pre-flash tvp) while teching to carriers. it used to involve transitioning into a ground army and then multiple expos to carriers, but after some refinement, he developed the infamous 2-base carrier that any decent protoss (ie even therock) could use to rape all terrans(except mind, forgg, hwasin) easy.
4. Muta Micro discovered by shark, abused by July, standardized by jaedong Yellow/july/gorush era zergs would still use the clicking on minerals trick to stack mutas(used mostly as a surprise like in modern zvp), but the endless amount of clips of july raping mineral lines in zvt way back when changed the way muta's were looked at forever. savior made it possible to use muta's every game in zvt as a way to reach lurker and hive tech. jaedong made zvt look imba with his 12 or so zvt streak during the tau cross era. shortly after the 3 hatch muta was standardized by jaedong, yarnc decided that he was going to fuck macro games and just rely only on 2 hatch muta micro to break terrans(this was developed even further into variations like 2 hatch muta->expand or 2 hatch muta+lurker very recently by luxury).
5. Goon Micro Most protosses were all able to do this trick, but very few used it in live games. Free was one of the first protoss to consistently use this trick in live games. Even most gamers though Free was being unreasonably reckless, until it was clear that his goon micro vs mines were winning him games under 10 min in proleague around the late life of python.
8. stasis Arbiter were basically lost after the FD era until Flash era tvp. Midas famously said that any protoss who goes abiters are doing him a favor. It was the birth of flash's double armory build on katrina/blue storm that caused stork to cry "IMBA" and cry after his 3rd major league silver. Bisu would try valiantly in the OSL to defeat Flash with some surprise arbiter builds, but it was Janbi and Best who introduced arbiters as standard play in pvt. Thanks to the storm dropping/abiter play along with the refocus on the macro style by best that recently shifted the favor back to protoss in pvt.
1. Guerilla warfare drops (storm, reaver,dt, vulture, luker) boxer's vulture play vs protoss was largely forgotten once OOv decided that all he needed was bad-ass macro to beat protoss. Vultures were used sparingly in the hwasin's timing approach to gauge timings and do some harass if possible. Flash's style also sparingly use vultures to turn around game where he's behind and also locate the protoss army. Mind and Fantasy brought back a hybrid style of heavy vulture harass/timing tvp but mostly are the only practitioner of the style.
Again, intotherainbow really brought reavers to the forefront of pvt, and stork made builds revolving around it. the infamous bisu build (nex first->corsair->dt) was standardized in the gomtv msl finals vs savior. He would continue to be at the forefront of pvz with refining reaver/ht harassment.
2. Terran pushes (or did terran always naturally create pushes) specifically things such as Han Ban (or however u spell it), Gundum rush and things of that nature but not limited can also b very broad if you search for the history of the pvt match up, they have an unbelievably detailed description of the terran push(all kinds)
info that i find useful: terran:_________________zerg______________________________protoss Boxer - micro____________yellow - understood larva usage________garimto - micro nada - management______july - low econ zerg___________________nal_ra - unpredictabilty/mind games oov - macro_____________gorush - unpredictablity/mind games____reach - macro midas - fd hwasin - timing__________savior - 3 hatchery/macro zerg_________stork - reaver/carrier flash - double armory______jaedong - muta micro_______________bisu - fe fantasy - mech vs zerg_____________________________________jangbi/best - macro/storm/arbiter
[B]it was Janbi and Best who introduced arbiters as standard play in pvt.
I've heard this is almost unanimously attributed to Best, who would pump constant arbiters against terran, sometimes out of two stargates. Is JangBi a pioneer of this strategy or did he just know a good thing when he saw it?
The reaver drop was popularized in tournament games in 1998 by the player known on Battle.net as Zileas, then an underclassman at MIT, whose quickness with coordinating the reavers and shuttles were described as "like a shuttle that fires scarabs". This technique effectively prevented many ground-attack units from engaging the reaver, since it could drop, shoot and load back into the shuttle before they could counter-attack. The developers of Starcraft, in a later patch, responded to this by introducing a short delay to prevent the reaver from opening fire as soon as it hit the ground.
Zileas popularized the placing of reavers in shuttles. Before the game was patched, Zileas terrorized Terrans with the instant, what he calls, 'reaver-popping'. He stopped doing it after a patch took away the magical ability of scarabs to be shot, for all intents and purposes, from shuttles, and it became a lot harder to do. Rainbow and other gosus then figured out how to do it, with less effect of course than reaver-popping, and still make it pretty effective.
[B]it was Janbi and Best who introduced arbiters as standard play in pvt.
I've heard this is almost unanimously attributed to Best, who would pump constant arbiters against terran, sometimes out of two stargates. Is JangBi a pioneer of this strategy or did he just know a good thing when he saw it?
Pusan was the one who started it best/bisu i would consider the ones who popularized it.
Also i dont think it was the pros who invented goon micro. I remember seeing the term goon dancing from a long time ago. The trick with killing mines with hold position i dont know who introduced it but free vs up was probably the game which really popularized it.
I remember this game from stork on 815 vs nada where he really abused recall and used hallucination on the arbiters that might have been one of the games which popularized arbiters. I always considered stork the one who popularized 2 base reaver into carrier -_-. Not really too sure. All these games i watched are all jumbled in my head.
I've been seeing a lot of zergs lately do the "burrow maphack" against Protoss where they burrow zerglings in key areas (or in a ring around the enemy base) to get perfect recon against drops and so on. Does anyone know who was the first player to do this?
Also, about reaver popping, if you read Boxer's biography, he said he played protoss at first because the reaver was his favorite unit, but the patch made reaver's "dumb" and he switched to terran. Maybe that's why he likes dropships so much...
On March 24 2009 14:05 hku wrote: 2. Reaver shuttle micro IntotheRainbow was one of the first to really start relying on reavers exclusively to beat terran players; his game where he wins vs goodfriend with only reavers and high templar harass is a "best games" compilation staple. Stork took the reaver and slowly developed in the monty-hall/python era using reavers to delay timing attacks (that were popular pre-flash tvp) while teching to carriers. it used to involve transitioning into a ground army and then multiple expos to carriers, but after some refinement, he developed the infamous 2-base carrier that any decent protoss (ie even therock) could use to rape all terrans(except mind, forgg, hwasin) easy.
4. Muta Micro discovered by shark, abused by July, standardized by jaedong Yellow/july/gorush era zergs would still use the clicking on minerals trick to stack mutas(used mostly as a surprise like in modern zvp), but the endless amount of clips of july raping mineral lines in zvt way back when changed the way muta's were looked at forever. savior made it possible to use muta's every game in zvt as a way to reach lurker and hive tech. jaedong made zvt look imba with his 12 or so zvt streak during the tau cross era. shortly after the 3 hatch muta was standardized by jaedong, yarnc decided that he was going to fuck macro games and just rely only on 2 hatch muta micro to break terrans(this was developed even further into variations like 2 hatch muta->expand or 2 hatch muta+lurker very recently by luxury).
5. Goon Micro Most protosses were all able to do this trick, but very few used it in live games. Free was one of the first protoss to consistently use this trick in live games. Even most gamers though Free was being unreasonably reckless, until it was clear that his goon micro vs mines were winning him games under 10 min in proleague around the late life of python.
8. stasis Arbiter were basically lost after the FD era until Flash era tvp. Midas famously said that any protoss who goes abiters are doing him a favor. It was the birth of flash's double armory build on katrina/blue storm that caused stork to cry "IMBA" and cry after his 3rd major league silver. Bisu would try valiantly in the OSL to defeat Flash with some surprise arbiter builds, but it was Janbi and Best who introduced arbiters as standard play in pvt. Thanks to the storm dropping/abiter play along with the refocus on the macro style by best that recently shifted the favor back to protoss in pvt.
1. Guerilla warfare drops (storm, reaver,dt, vulture, luker) boxer's vulture play vs protoss was largely forgotten once OOv decided that all he needed was bad-ass macro to beat protoss. Vultures were used sparingly in the hwasin's timing approach to gauge timings and do some harass if possible. Flash's style also sparingly use vultures to turn around game where he's behind and also locate the protoss army. Mind and Fantasy brought back a hybrid style of heavy vulture harass/timing tvp but mostly are the only practitioner of the style.
Again, intotherainbow really brought reavers to the forefront of pvt, and stork made builds revolving around it. the infamous bisu build (nex first->corsair->dt) was standardized in the gomtv msl finals vs savior. He would continue to be at the forefront of pvz with refining reaver/ht harassment.
2. Terran pushes (or did terran always naturally create pushes) specifically things such as Han Ban (or however u spell it), Gundum rush and things of that nature but not limited can also b very broad if you search for the history of the pvt match up, they have an unbelievably detailed description of the terran push(all kinds)
info that i find useful: terran:_________________zerg______________________________protoss Boxer - micro____________yellow - understood larva usage________garimto - micro nada - management______july - low econ zerg___________________nal_ra - unpredictabilty/mind games oov - macro_____________gorush - unpredictablity/mind games____reach - macro midas - fd hwasin - timing__________savior - 3 hatchery/macro zerg_________stork - reaver/carrier flash - double armory______jaedong - muta micro_______________bisu - fe fantasy - mech vs zerg_____________________________________jangbi/best - macro/storm/arbiter
You give Jaedong to much credit he never invented anything. Hes highly unoriginal actually he just does whats already established really really well. He had no role in establishing/popularizing muta micro. Shark invented it and July made it the standard for every zerg. Also Best/Jangbi did not popularize Arbiters in pvz it was mainly Pusan and maby maby Stork. You give to much credit to modern players who mostly are all unoriginal due to their extremely demanding schedules. It was the old greats that came up with all this stuff.
On March 24 2009 14:05 hku wrote: 2. Reaver Shuttle micro IntoTheRainBOw was one of the first to Really start relying on reavers exclusively to beat terran players; his game Where he wins vs Goodfriend with Only reavers and high templar harass is a "best games" compilation staple. Stork took the reaver and slowly developed in the monty-hall/Python era using reavers to delay timing attacks (that were popular pre-flash tvp) while teching to carriers. it used to involve transitioning into a ground army and then multiple expos to carriers, but after some refinement, he developed the infamous 2-base carrier that any decent protoss (ie even therock) could use to rape all terrans(except mind, fOrGG, Hwasin) easy.
4. Muta Micro discovered by Shark, abused by July, standardized by Jaedong YellOw/July/GoRush era zergs would still use the clicking on minerals trick to stack mutas(used mostly as a surprise like in Modern zvp), but the Endless amount of clips of July raping Mineral lines in zvt way back when changed the way muta's were looked at forever. sAviOr made it possible to use muta's every game in zvt as a way to Reach lurker and hive tech. Jaedong made zvt look imba with his 12 or so zvt streak during the Tau Cross era. shortly after the 3 hatch muta was standardized by Jaedong, yarnc decided that he was going to fuck macro games and just rely Only on 2 hatch muta micro to break terrans(this was developed even further into variations like 2 hatch muta->expand or 2 hatch muta+lurker very recently by luxury).
5. Goon Micro Most protosses were all able to do this trick, but very few used it in Live games. free was one of the first protoss to consistently use this trick in Live games. Even most gamers though free was being unreasonably reckless, until it was clear that his goon micro vs mines were winning him games under 10 min in proleague around the late life of Python.
8. stasis Arbiter were basically lost after the FD era until Flash era tvp. Midas famously said that any protoss who goes abiters are doing him a favor. It was the birth of Flash's double armory build on Katrina/Blue Storm that caused Stork to cry "IMBA" and cry after his 3rd Major league Silver. Bisu would try valiantly in the OSL to defeat Flash with some surprise arbiter builds, but it was Janbi and Best who introduced arbiters as standard play in pvt. Thanks to the storm dropping/abiter play along with the refocus on the macro Style by best that recently shifted the favor back to protoss in pvt.
1. Guerilla warfare drops (storm, reaver,dt, Vulture, luker) BoxeR's Vulture play vs protoss was largely forgotten once Oov decided that all he needed was bad-ass macro to beat protoss. Vultures were used sparingly in the Hwasin's timing approach to gauge timings and do some harass if possible. Flash's Style also sparingly use vultures to turn around game Where he's behind and also locate the protoss army. Mind and fantasy brought back a hybrid Style of heavy Vulture harass/timing tvp but mostly are the Only practitioner of the Style.
Again, IntoTheRainBOw Really brought reavers to the forefront of pvt, and Stork made builds revolving around it. the infamous Bisu build (nex first->corsair->dt) was standardized in the gomtv msl finals vs sAviOr. He would continue to be at the forefront of pvz with refining reaver/ht harassment.
2. Terran pushes (or did terran always naturally create pushes) specifically things such as han Ban (or however u spell it), Gundum rush and things of that nature but not limited can also b very broad if you search for the HistOry of the pvt match up, they have an unbelievably detailed description of the terran Push(all kinds)
info that i find useful: terran:_________________zerg______________________________protoss BoxeR - micro____________yellow - understood larva usage________garimto - micro NaDa - management______july - low econ zerg___________________nal_ra - unpredictabilty/mind games Oov - macro_____________gorush - unpredictablity/mind games____reach - macro Midas - fd Hwasin - timing__________savior - 3 hatchery/macro zerg_________stork - reaver/carrier Flash - double armory______jaedong - muta micro_______________bisu - fe fantasy - mech vs zerg_____________________________________jangbi/best - macro/storm/arbiter
You give Jaedong to much credit he never invented anything. Hes highly unoriginal actually he just does whats already established Really Really well. He had no role in establishing/popularizing muta micro. Shark invented it and July made it the standard for every zerg. Also Best/JangBi did not popularize Arbiters in pvz it was mainly Pusan and maby maby Stork. You give to much credit to Modern players who mostly are all unoriginal due to their extremely demanding schedules. It was the old greats that came up with all this stuff.
To be fair, Jaedong did refine the use of Queens in TvZ after hyvaa attempted to use them. It was he who showed that Queens were a viable, albeit a micro heavy, option in TvZ. But other then that, I can agree that most newer players have come up with little both beacuse the game has mostly been explored by now and beacuse they are given little room for experimentation.
EPT
