EPTnever knew that till a couple of weeks ago.
High ground advantage - Page 2
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IdrA
United States11541 Posts
never knew that till a couple of weeks ago. | ||
alffla
Hong Kong20321 Posts
[edit] oh right i get what u mean now | ||
JWD
United States12607 Posts
53% sounds like a pretty arbitrary number for Blizzard to set as the hitrate when shooting uphill...but your sample size is massive enough that I doubt the "true" hitrate is much different (to quantify that, your 99.9% CI only gives a range of only .03 on either side of .53. Based on this, we can say conclusively that the hitrate is not 50%). Nice report btw, this is exactly the kind of thing I love :D | ||
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Ganfei
Taiwan1439 Posts
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jtan
Sweden5891 Posts
On February 12 2009 09:26 jwd241224 wrote: Doesn't this data put the hit rate at slightly above 50%? Your mean must be ~.53, based on the CI you give. 53% sounds like a pretty arbitrary number for Blizzard to set as the hitrate when shooting uphill...but your sample size is massive enough that I doubt the "true" hitrate is much different. Nice report btw, this is exactly the kind of thing I love :D Good point, my data suggests that it is also very unlikely that the number is 50%, but like you say it would be weird to set it to 53% by blizzard. A few things could have gone wrong though. Perhaps some goons close to the edge glitch and think they are on high ground, or perhaps the random number generator has some sort of minor bias. edit:also my observed mean was exactly 1587/3000=0.529 | ||
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minus_human
4784 Posts
Anyway, great post and thanks alot! Starcraft never ceases to amaze | ||
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minus_human
4784 Posts
On February 12 2009 09:22 IdrA wrote: did anyone else not know that on the new 'broken' ramps, the one that go the wrong directions and stuff, theres patches of ground that count as high ground, so they dont get the % disadvantage? never knew that till a couple of weeks ago. I think anyone who created maps with inverse ramps knows this, or at least they should have guessed it. Yeah it sucks, but I don't think it fixable | ||
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t_co
United States702 Posts
Tanks Rines Hydras etc. | ||
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Ganfei
Taiwan1439 Posts
On February 12 2009 09:33 minus_human wrote: I actually think it might vary from unit to unit. I once heard that Tanks and marines are best at shooting uphill, while dragoons are worst (could have been a misunderstanding, maybe it was referring to the Tanks' splash or smth) Anyway, great post and thanks alot! Starcraft never ceases to amaze PLay some TvT and tell me if tanks are better at shooting uphill than other units... Maybe it only seems that marines can shoot better uphill because a large number, stimmed, appears to connect more often. This is only an illusion in my experience. On February 12 2009 09:22 IdrA wrote: did anyone else not know that on the new 'broken' ramps, the one that go the wrong directions and stuff, theres patches of ground that count as high ground, so they dont get the % disadvantage? never knew that till a couple of weeks ago. Could you give an example of this? Are you talking about ramps like at 11 on Othello? | ||
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G5
United States2921 Posts
The more likely reason though that it isn't 70% is that there has been many patches which messed with the hit ratio since they published there strategy guild. | ||
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minus_human
4784 Posts
But you make a valid point NoobsOfWrath, and come to think about it, I think I actually did read what I wrote above in a Korean interview or smth, but I never realized that they could have been taking about the fact that in large numbers, and with very fast shooting speed, marines are best at shooting uphill. There shouldn't logically be any exception from the rule, silly me I guess | ||
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IdrA
United States11541 Posts
On February 12 2009 09:52 NoobsOfWrath wrote: PLay some TvT and tell me if tanks are better at shooting uphill than other units... Maybe it only seems that marines can shoot better uphill because a large number, stimmed, appears to connect more often. This is only an illusion in my experience. Could you give an example of this? Are you talking about ramps like at 11 on Othello? all ramps not allowed in the original editor, afaik i found out because of the 6 ramp on destination 2 unranged goons broke 4 rines on a ramp without losing one and i was like o.o? | ||
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minus_human
4784 Posts
a)walkable and b) visually appealing In the process, mappers use patches from high ground and/or low ground, whichever looks best. The only thing they try to respect is to make it as large as a normal ramp, and often a ramp like this is made out of patches of ground that would normally be 'low ground', so it doesn't give a high ground advantage. | ||
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meegrean
Thailand7699 Posts
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OmgIRok
Taiwan2699 Posts
On February 12 2009 08:49 arb wrote: Highground factors in for everyone except Reach | ||
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PH
United States6173 Posts
But after reading this, yeah, 50% sounds a lot more right. I dunno, I never really thought that deeply into it. Thanks to the OP for this, though. Very interesting. | ||
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Divinek
Canada4045 Posts
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Excalibur_Z
United States12244 Posts
Possible reasons which would fit within or near the margin of error: - Double counting (70% hit rate counted twice or 49%, or possibly the reverse of 51%) - Double counting out of 256 (179/256 = 70%, 179/256 * 179/256 = 48.9%, or possibly 51.1%, everything else in the game is /256 so this may be no different) - 70/128 instead of 70/100 (54.6%, or if out of /256 it could be double counting additively) More uncommon possibilities: - 100-30/70 (57.2%) - 70/130 (70/(100+100-70) = 53.8%, close result, but the reason for the numbers makes no functional sense) - 69/130 (53.0%, this factors in a possible 1% chance a ranged shot will miss as we sometimes observe, but instead of 1/100 it is a 1/130 less chance) I contend that it's probably a bug, but the reason for the bug is unclear since we have no way of viewing the code. | ||
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CharlieMurphy
United States22895 Posts
On February 12 2009 09:22 IdrA wrote: did anyone else not know that on the new 'broken' ramps, the one that go the wrong directions and stuff, theres patches of ground that count as high ground, so they dont get the % disadvantage? never knew that till a couple of weeks ago. yes and some maps like python 6 have 1 tile that is low ground on the top of the ramp so ur unit may not even get vision (like he's been optical flared). And this thread is very interesting. After 10 years no one actually bothered to check the stat that we all know by heart and even realize the extreme value of high ground. Now the question is what should be fixed, the stat on their website/game manuals etc. or patch it to actually be 70% . The game would seem to change so drastically. it's like playing holdem and being put all in with Top pair/flush draw normally then all the sudden someone hands you trips. PS- This needs to be tested a little more imo, more shots and more units. Also do buildings have a different hit rate than a unit? Do different buildings have different hit rates (T/P/Z etc)? Do large/small/medium units effect anything? | ||
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Ellis
247 Posts
;_; Foreign scene compared to Korea | ||
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