Team matches in Brood War used to be much more popular than they are today, back in the day, when dinosaurs roamed the earth, it was not uncommon to have several team matches, 2v2 and even 3v3 games played in clanwars - I myself remember playing and witnessing some really epic matches. As time has gone on however, team play has gotten increasingly less attention eventually culminating in the recent announcement that this new season of Proleague would not feature 2v2 any longer.
Unlike the game itself, 2v2 seems to be a dying art - there are few really strong, consistent 2v2 teams that are well known in the community, the ICCUP 2v2 ladder almost ALWAYS features the same people every season getting top ranks, and 2v2 matches are usually never heard of outside of WGTCL and BWCL. Why is it that 2v2 has declined so much from the glory days of Vanilla and early Brood War where it was hugely popular?
The 2v2 Problem
There are several reasons why I believe 2v2 is increasingly decreasing in popularity:
1) Lack of media attention - for example think about any report done on a league (whether it be WGTCL, BWCL, or even Proleague); and you will notice that the 2v2 gets little attention. The progamers who focus on 2v2 are usually much less known than their 1v1 counterparts, and the same goes for the foreign scene.
2) It may oftentimes difficult to follow the action in 2v2 games. One may argue that the game is intense enough with just two players battling, and with having to watch four players at a time, it often can get too confusing. Whatever the reasons behind it, one thing is certain: there are less and less 2v2 players every year.
3) It is hard to find good, stable partners. Since 2v2 is really about communication, finding a partner you can coordinate specific hours to play with may be difficult and lead to people not caring enough to play 2v2 seriously.
4) The lack of 2v2 (on ladders such as ICCUP) continues a downward spiral because it makes practicing much more difficult.
2v2 is Great - Try it!
It is my goal to shed some light on the forgotten art that is 2v2. Not only is 2v2 faster paced and oftentimes more exciting than 1v1 games, the strategies employed are vastly different than 1v1, and the skillset is also incredibly different - 2v2 is a totally different game than 1v1. Some of the greatest 2v2 players are not even that good at 1v1, like Yan for example. Here are some features that make 2v2 different than 1v1: In 2v2, really high APM is not as important, teamwork and communication are key, and balancing between macro and micro is more vital than in 1v1. For example, in 1v1 games it is pretty standard for any race and matchup to pump workers nearly until you reach 130-150 supply, with short pauses in between as needed to work on maximizing troop count at certain moments of games; this is not necessarily the case in 2v2. In 2v2 games it is more important to find the perfect number of workers that will allow you to macro strongly off of one base (a lot of 2v2 is fast paced enough that one base play is common); terrans often go 4 barracks off one base, while you will almost never see that in a 1v1 game.
Highlight: DeA and Tenryu
I am now going to highlight a specific 2v2 team to make my case that 2v2 is awesome. Hopefully after reading this, some people will be swayed to start playing, following, and taking 2v2 more seriously!
I have chosen DeA and Tenryu partially because they are in my team, so it was easy to access them and their replays, etc, but more so because they have become what I would argue, one of the best non Korean 2v2 teams in the community, and because their games are fun and entertaining to watch.
Here is a quick bio of some of their accomplishments:
* Reached A- rank on ICCUP in three (just reached A- this season) different seasons * Combined 13-2 record in BWCL the past two seasons * 4-0 against MYM 2v2 teams of Strelok+White-Ra and Strelok+DinOt
VODS - DeA+Tenryu vs Yan+Nyana
Game 1: DeA+Tenryu (ZT) vs Yan+Nyana (ZP) @ Python Part 1
Part 2
Game 2: DeA+Tenryu (ZT) vs Yan+Nyana (ZP) @ Python Part 1
Xeris: cool ok, start off with your guys' names since most people don't know you
Dea: how dare they :D, ten go first
Tenryu: Daniel Perez, last name is longer but.. dont feel like typing it
Dea: James Moutafidis
Xeris: how long have you guys been playing together ?
Dea: i think 6 months
Tenryu: same, a little more then 6 months
Dea: cause when i got back from australia i was still 1v1ing and no 2v2ing
Dea: i think our very first 2v2 together was vs MYM with like zero training
Xeris: :D
Tenryu: fo sho
Xeris: ok so tell me the "story" how did you guys decide to partner up, was it love at first sight ?
Tenryu: I was transition from 1v1 to 2v2
Dea: hahahaha
Tenryu: and Dea was like B+ iccup and i guess I asked for ally? or something
Dea: well I kinda knew tenryu was gosu 2v2 since he was pwning everyone up in the ladder. I didnt really like to play with him however cause I kinda hated having a Terran ally I was more used to ZP and ZZ teams
Tenryu: until u noticed all pro users = TZ team -_- or good teams = TZ team
Dea: ya well tenryu showed me the basics of how TZ works so after that it was kinda easy to follow along
Tenryu: i tried to give him basics, i just told him to do what i see my previous partner uT)Skyless do
Xeris: cool cool
Tenryu: but he B+ gosu in 1v1 so he caught on quick, then we just played alot cuz many ez wins and some ez losses, as with ever1
Dea: ya those random losses where we would be like "WTF how did that happen?" over ventrillo.
Tenryu: indeed but we always talked over it and was like, "we'll think about how to fix this next time" or something
Xeris: ok so Ten I know you used to be random what made you decide on sticking to terran with james instead of maybe doing ZP or something?
Tenryu: lol well before i joined [light] i played alot 2x2 with uT)Skyless, we was in sfc_ at the time. I tried P and and stuff but my Terran was the best in 2x2 so i stuck to that for 1v1
Dea: its a good thing you did cause if u were P i would hate ZP mirror match-ups
Tenryu: i did random but now i do T also just to help me out when i need to 2x1
Xeris: ok so what is your favorite matchup ?
Tenryu: TZ v ZZ maybe
Dea: lol nah id say vs PZ
Tenryu: true PZ is funnest, ZZ is easiest
Dea: id say we are more confident vs PZ
Tenryu: and TZ v TZ is hard for me
Dea: TZ mirror is really weird
Tenryu: id say thats our weakest mu and it sucks becuz like 95% of the teams B+ ++ are TZ teams
Xeris: ah
Dea: yea true one thing that was hard for us with TZ mirror was when zergs would go for 1hatch mutas instead of the old 2hatch ramp. so learning how to play 1hatch mutas was kinda awkward
Tenryu: Lol it seemd like after every1 watched reps of that dude that 107-1 on ICCup 2x2 they tried copy him and his allies, so every1 does 1h muta now
Dea: but it is probably the best way to go, ya, SparkyzJS or something like that
Tenryu: yeh we transitioned from 1h and 2h all the time didnt really kno how to play it or figure out how to
Dea: thats kinda what made u use ur marines more without medics, u know?
Xeris: alright so explain a little bit how 2v2 is different than 1v1 for those who dont know 2v2
Dea: well I would say 2v2 is more micro-intense from the get-go
Tenryu: u dont focus much on macro, I noticed from watchin many replays of us losing to Yan/Capigui, who are an insane 2x2 team that cutting SCVz is really important to control game early on. controlling the game is very important, and it uses teamwork obviously
Tenryu: like 3-4 rine and 6 ling can take 2 zealot and 6 ling pretty easy depending on how well u and ur ally micro, actually we've taken 3 z and 6 ling at one pt with like 2-3 rine and 6 ling
Dea: haha
Xeris: ok so also it seems like a lot of 1v1 is based on macro late game style while 2v2 rarely gets to the late game stage, is it rare for you to play late game 2v2 ? and how does that look different than 1v1?
Tenryu: when I was lookin at bwchart id say about 83% of who knows how many 2x2 games I've played its been under 12 minutes. I hate late game 2x2
Dea: I think on all iccup seasons weve played together we have an average of 10 minutes per game. I think we play very agressive for TZ and try to end the game as fast as possible; sometimes we overdo it
Tenryu: late game 2x2 is kinda similar to 1v1 I think? idk, its real macro heavy and the main races, T or P need mass expos. I consider zerg more of a support while T and P macros zerg kinda just harasses and helps ally expand
Dea: ya late game I would have to agree its much more important for the leading races to expo instead of the supporting ones. zerg only needs gas to increase his muta count
Xeris: ok let's see, on to some more general 2v2 questions: what are your thoughts about the "2v2 scene", why is it so small?
Tenryu: good question
Dea: hmm, yea idk. I think its kinda hard to find a decent ally to train with and reach the level that you want
Tenryu: I just think people dont consider 2x2 to have as much skill as 1x1. in some way it doesnt, and in some ways it involves more
Dea: its a different type of skill and its got a different way of thinking
Tenryu: like I've seen an A+ 1x1, forgot his name, he maybe was like 67% A+ and he was like 50% B- 2x2. being good 1x1 helps but its a team effotrt u cant 1x2 every game no matter how good u are, u are bound to lose to newbs 2x2 that u would normally own in 1x1
Xeris: :D!
Dea: well most 1v1 players that try to 2v2 I think get caught up in playing macro-ish, they make too many workers which puts them behind in map control and army count
Tenryu: yup, they play heavy worker style so they play late game when 2x2 is early game
Dea: for instance I could play with 6-7 drones for 10 minutes producing lings non stop to get the edge
Tenryu: I just think people think 2v2 involves no skill, thats the answer I get most of the time or what i see; after I win a 2v2, "lets 1v1, see whos better"
Dea: haha
Xeris: :D!
Tenryu: If I wanted to 1v1 I'll play 1v1 games, not 2v2 games
Dea: to play 2v2 I think you need to know what to do in alot of circumstances that may arise during the game
Xeris: I dont know how much you follow the korean scene, but how do you feel about 2v2 being taken out of proleague ?
Tenryu: but dea is right too, its hard to get a good ally to constantly play with
Tenryu: I dont pay attention to the korean scene
Dea: well I think it kinda sucks cause its always nice to see what the koreans can do in their 2v2 matches some weird strats !. but I think lately all 2v2 matches were PZ v PZ so that was kinda boring. iron curtain was a good 2v2 map tho nice games played on that map
Xeris: yes it was! it was the coolest map ever
Xeris: what do you think could be done to help the 2v2 scene grow maybe ? or what would you like to see?
Dea: that match of nada + rock vs boxer + gorush i think, where nada won 1v2 after rock lost miserably
Tenryu: 2v2 scene grow.. hmm
Dea: more tournaments for sure
Tenryu: yeh
Dea: not just iccup tours
Tenryu: I like bwcl's idea of 2 2x2 games however, maybe if more tournaments added that in there more people would train 2v2 to get some wins rather then just throw 2 1x1 players and hope for the best, because it IS a different type of play
Xeris: so do you like that BWCL has 2 2v2s ?
Tenryu: yeh I do
Dea: it makes teams focus a bit more on 2v2 since thats 2 points per clanwar
Xeris: ok so if you had to name maybe top 3-4 2v2 teams who would you name?
Dea: well
Tenryu: Yan/Capigui is definitely #1 imo
Dea: I dont think anyone will argue that yan/capigui are #1
Tenryu: they hit A- with like 0 losses and A+ with 10, lol
Dea: if we exclude sparkyzjs and his hypergosu zerg ally :D
Tenryu: hmm #1 Yan/Capigui fuk, lol
Dea: existminizerg + iesan are very good too
Tenryu: its like same 10-15 people on top of charts on iccup every season
Dea: dark + energy also
Tenryu: dark + energy is good yeh
Dea: they played vs us some weird-ass TZ strats
Tenryu: dark has been allying dj recently but idk how good they are as a team
Dea: and if we were to mention old teams, I think dahli/pythonas, gohan/fabian, ljt/xiaozi... there are also alot of 2v2 players that ally anyone that own pretty hard
Tenryu: skyless has an awesome 2x2 zerg he pretty much allies any1 too tho. theres alot of ok players also but they talk alot of shit so I dont feel like mentioning them
Dea: haha
Tenryu: Ladder 2x2 has alot of cocky american players -_-
Dea: its like east but with ranks
Xeris: haha, ok let's see
Dea: alot of DOJing too
Xeris: what about the MB team you guys lost to ? like your only 2v2 loss ever :p
Dea: hah yea
Tenryu: for cw's yeah
Xeris: except when you lost vs NrT lol
Tenryu: cuz dea is dumb
Dea: nrt was like bo1 so that doesnt count keke :D
Tenryu: fo sho bo1 doesnt count -_-
Dea: well vs MB it was weird. i think they were heavily favored by the maps, for a PT team to have 2 maps with dual gas mains its imba
Tenryu: nah MB, Vampire + Hannibal - 2gas maps favor PT if they play right
Tenryu: when we re'd on a 1gas map it was such ez win -_-
Xeris: ok let's see what 2v2 team havent you played that you wish you could play ?
Tenryu: but they played those maps right, they played it good
Dea: yea, hmm
Tenryu: I wanna play ljt/xiaozi, I havent played them yet
Dea: probably mondie/testie if they were active as a team
Tenryu: yeh that would be fun. any considered the best I wanna play
Xeris: alright let's see
Tenryu: :-O like we played mass games vs cap/yan, those were fun losses -_-
Dea: LOL
Xeris: how many times on a weekly basis do you sex hap's mom?
Dea: losses by the dozen
Tenryu: oh man hmm
Dea: lol well she has helped us out in a lot of tough times
Tenryu: indeed
Dea: *hint* *hint* I think our new accounts
Xeris: any last words / shout out etc ?
Tenryu: HapsMom + HapsDad[LighT]
Dea: ya
Tenryu: wootage
Xeris: ^_^
Dea: are a tribute too her sexyness
Tenryu: last shout out huh
Xeris: last words ?!
Dea: STFU GTFO :D
Dea: well I think anyone can reach B- 2v2 if they have a decent ally but after that, gl hf
Tenryu: indeed, but more like STFU GTFO B cuz it requires more skill then u think -_-
Dea: shoutouts? hmm
Tenryu: TO MICHAEL JACKSON
Xeris: go for it !
Tenryu: MY LOVER
Dea: HAPS MOM
Tenryu: I MISS YOU
Dea: well shoutout to team light for being so pwnage
Tenryu: wow on ur knees much
Dea: :D
Xeris: loool, thanks for teh interview =D
Dea: i wanna shoutout too lindsey
Tenryu: cya~
Xeris: hap's sister? =D
Dea: NO U MORON LOL
Xeris: thanks guys. KEEP OWNING
Dea: thx oh and dont keep haps mom up too long tonight
Dea: PAVLO ISE KEFTES ^^ plz mention that too
Dea: Shoutout to the Greek community!
Click the spoiler tag to read the full interview!
Replay Pack
Click >>HERE<< to download the replay pack!! Enjoy! <3 2v2!
**PS : How do I embed the youtube videos? I want to post the vods!** Thanks~
If you enjoyed this, feel free to leave a comment: HERE. Thanks!
very good post... but dont forget 3v3 and 4v4 as well. Those were madfun back in the days when sc came out... 3v3 Hunters NO Rush 10mins....then became NO-R 5 mins...and finally 'good' ppl started playing with no rushing rules ...nostalgia....
I'll go back and read this more thoroughly when it's a more decent time, as I miss 2v2s as well.
One thing though, and im sure it was the map pool more than anything else, is that pro level 2v2s were incredibly stagnant last season...every team was ZP, and they all played out pretty much the same. I think some more creative maps, or maybe even just different maps could've kept it alive perhaps for one season longer at least.
On November 06 2008 15:48 Xeris wrote: 2v2: The Forgotten Art
Team matches in Brood War used to be much more popular than they are today, back in the day, when dinosaurs roamed the earth, it was not uncommon to have several team matches, 2v2 and even 3v3 games played in clanwars - I myself remember playing and witnessing some really epic matches. As time has gone on however, team play has gotten increasingly less attention eventually culminating in the recent announcement that this new season of Proleague would not feature 2v2 any longer.
Unlike the game itself, 2v2 seems to be a dying art - there are few really strong, consistent 2v2 teams that are well known in the community, the ICCUP 2v2 ladder almost ALWAYS features the same people every season getting top ranks, and 2v2 matches are usually never heard of outside of WGTCL and BWCL. Why is it that 2v2 has declined so much from the glory days of Vanilla and early Brood War where it was hugely popular?
The 2v2 Problem
There are several reasons why I believe 2v2 is increasingly decreasing in popularity:
1) Lack of media attention - for example think about any report done on a league (whether it be WGTCL, BWCL, or even Proleague); and you will notice that the 2v2 gets little attention. The progamers who focus on 2v2 are usually much less known than their 1v1 counterparts, and the same goes for the foreign scene.
2) It may oftentimes difficult to follow the action in 2v2 games. One may argue that the game is intense enough with just two players battling, and with having to watch four players at a time, it often can get too confusing. Whatever the reasons behind it, one thing is certain: there are less and less 2v2 players every year.
3) It is hard to find good, stable partners. Since 2v2 is really about communication, finding a partner you can coordinate specific hours to play with may be difficult and lead to people not caring enough to play 2v2 seriously.
4) The lack of 2v2 (on ladders such as ICCUP) continues a downward spiral because it makes practicing much more difficult.
2v2 is Great - Try it!
It is my goal to shed some light on the forgotten art that is 2v2. Not only is 2v2 faster paced and oftentimes more exciting than 1v1 games, the strategies employed are vastly different than 1v1, and the skillset is also incredibly different - 2v2 is a totally different game than 1v1. Some of the greatest 2v2 players are not even that good at 1v1, like Yan for example. Here are some features that make 2v2 different than 1v1: In 2v2, really high APM is not as important, teamwork and communication are key, and balancing between macro and micro is more vital than in 1v1. For example, in 1v1 games it is pretty standard for any race and matchup to pump workers nearly until you reach 130-150 supply, with short pauses in between as needed to work on maximizing troop count at certain moments of games; this is not necessarily the case in 2v2. In 2v2 games it is more important to find the perfect number of workers that will allow you to macro strongly off of one base (a lot of 2v2 is fast paced enough that one base play is common); terrans often go 4 barracks off one base, while you will almost never see that in a 1v1 game.
Highlight: DeA and Tenryu
I am now going to highlight a specific 2v2 team to make my case that 2v2 is awesome. Hopefully after reading this, some people will be swayed to start playing, following, and taking 2v2 more seriously!
I have chosen DeA and Tenryu partially because they are in my team, so it was easy to access them and their replays, etc, but more so because they have become what I would argue, one of the best non Korean 2v2 teams in the community, and because their games are fun and entertaining to watch.
Here is a quick bio of some of their accomplishments:
* Reached A- rank on ICCUP in three (just reached A- this season) different seasons * Combined 13-2 record in BWCL the past two seasons * 4-0 against MYM 2v2 teams of Strelok+White-Ra and Strelok+DinOt
VODS - DeA+Tenryu vs Yan+Nyana
Game 1: DeA+Tenryu (ZT) vs Yan+Nyana (ZP) @ Python Part 1
Part 2
Game 2: DeA+Tenryu (ZT) vs Yan+Nyana (ZP) @ Python Part 1
Xeris: cool ok, start off with your guys' names since most people don't know you
Dea: how dare they :D, ten go first
Tenryu: Daniel Perez, last name is longer but.. dont feel like typing it
Dea: James Moutafidis
Xeris: how long have you guys been playing together ?
Dea: i think 6 months
Tenryu: same, a little more then 6 months
Dea: cause when i got back from australia i was still 1v1ing and no 2v2ing
Dea: i think our very first 2v2 together was vs MYM with like zero training
Xeris: :D
Tenryu: fo sho
Xeris: ok so tell me the "story" how did you guys decide to partner up, was it love at first sight ?
Tenryu: I was transition from 1v1 to 2v2
Dea: hahahaha
Tenryu: and Dea was like B+ iccup and i guess I asked for ally? or something
Dea: well I kinda knew tenryu was gosu 2v2 since he was pwning everyone up in the ladder. I didnt really like to play with him however cause I kinda hated having a Terran ally I was more used to ZP and ZZ teams
Tenryu: until u noticed all pro users = TZ team -_- or good teams = TZ team
Dea: ya well tenryu showed me the basics of how TZ works so after that it was kinda easy to follow along
Tenryu: i tried to give him basics, i just told him to do what i see my previous partner uT)Skyless do
Xeris: cool cool
Tenryu: but he B+ gosu in 1v1 so he caught on quick, then we just played alot cuz many ez wins and some ez losses, as with ever1
Dea: ya those random losses where we would be like "WTF how did that happen?" over ventrillo.
Tenryu: indeed but we always talked over it and was like, "we'll think about how to fix this next time" or something
Xeris: ok so Ten I know you used to be random what made you decide on sticking to terran with james instead of maybe doing ZP or something?
Tenryu: lol well before i joined [light] i played alot 2x2 with uT)Skyless, we was in sfc_ at the time. I tried P and and stuff but my Terran was the best in 2x2 so i stuck to that for 1v1
Dea: its a good thing you did cause if u were P i would hate ZP mirror match-ups
Tenryu: i did random but now i do T also just to help me out when i need to 2x1
Xeris: ok so what is your favorite matchup ?
Tenryu: TZ v ZZ maybe
Dea: lol nah id say vs PZ
Tenryu: true PZ is funnest, ZZ is easiest
Dea: id say we are more confident vs PZ
Tenryu: and TZ v TZ is hard for me
Dea: TZ mirror is really weird
Tenryu: id say thats our weakest mu and it sucks becuz like 95% of the teams B+ ++ are TZ teams
Xeris: ah
Dea: yea true one thing that was hard for us with TZ mirror was when zergs would go for 1hatch mutas instead of the old 2hatch ramp. so learning how to play 1hatch mutas was kinda awkward
Tenryu: Lol it seemd like after every1 watched reps of that dude that 107-1 on ICCup 2x2 they tried copy him and his allies, so every1 does 1h muta now
Dea: but it is probably the best way to go, ya, SparkyzJS or something like that
Tenryu: yeh we transitioned from 1h and 2h all the time didnt really kno how to play it or figure out how to
Dea: thats kinda what made u use ur marines more without medics, u know?
Xeris: alright so explain a little bit how 2v2 is different than 1v1 for those who dont know 2v2
Dea: well I would say 2v2 is more micro-intense from the get-go
Tenryu: u dont focus much on macro, I noticed from watchin many replays of us losing to Yan/Capigui, who are an insane 2x2 team that cutting SCVz is really important to control game early on. controlling the game is very important, and it uses teamwork obviously
Tenryu: like 3-4 rine and 6 ling can take 2 zealot and 6 ling pretty easy depending on how well u and ur ally micro, actually we've taken 3 z and 6 ling at one pt with like 2-3 rine and 6 ling
Dea: haha
Xeris: ok so also it seems like a lot of 1v1 is based on macro late game style while 2v2 rarely gets to the late game stage, is it rare for you to play late game 2v2 ? and how does that look different than 1v1?
Tenryu: when I was lookin at bwchart id say about 83% of who knows how many 2x2 games I've played its been under 12 minutes. I hate late game 2x2
Dea: I think on all iccup seasons weve played together we have an average of 10 minutes per game. I think we play very agressive for TZ and try to end the game as fast as possible; sometimes we overdo it
Tenryu: late game 2x2 is kinda similar to 1v1 I think? idk, its real macro heavy and the main races, T or P need mass expos. I consider zerg more of a support while T and P macros zerg kinda just harasses and helps ally expand
Dea: ya late game I would have to agree its much more important for the leading races to expo instead of the supporting ones. zerg only needs gas to increase his muta count
Xeris: ok let's see, on to some more general 2v2 questions: what are your thoughts about the "2v2 scene", why is it so small?
Tenryu: good question
Dea: hmm, yea idk. I think its kinda hard to find a decent ally to train with and reach the level that you want
Tenryu: I just think people dont consider 2x2 to have as much skill as 1x1. in some way it doesnt, and in some ways it involves more
Dea: its a different type of skill and its got a different way of thinking
Tenryu: like I've seen an A+ 1x1, forgot his name, he maybe was like 67% A+ and he was like 50% B- 2x2. being good 1x1 helps but its a team effotrt u cant 1x2 every game no matter how good u are, u are bound to lose to newbs 2x2 that u would normally own in 1x1
Xeris: :D!
Dea: well most 1v1 players that try to 2v2 I think get caught up in playing macro-ish, they make too many workers which puts them behind in map control and army count
Tenryu: yup, they play heavy worker style so they play late game when 2x2 is early game
Dea: for instance I could play with 6-7 drones for 10 minutes producing lings non stop to get the edge
Tenryu: I just think people think 2v2 involves no skill, thats the answer I get most of the time or what i see; after I win a 2v2, "lets 1v1, see whos better"
Dea: haha
Xeris: :D!
Tenryu: If I wanted to 1v1 I'll play 1v1 games, not 2v2 games
Dea: to play 2v2 I think you need to know what to do in alot of circumstances that may arise during the game
Xeris: I dont know how much you follow the korean scene, but how do you feel about 2v2 being taken out of proleague ?
Tenryu: but dea is right too, its hard to get a good ally to constantly play with
Tenryu: I dont pay attention to the korean scene
Dea: well I think it kinda sucks cause its always nice to see what the koreans can do in their 2v2 matches some weird strats !. but I think lately all 2v2 matches were PZ v PZ so that was kinda boring. iron curtain was a good 2v2 map tho nice games played on that map
Xeris: yes it was! it was the coolest map ever
Xeris: what do you think could be done to help the 2v2 scene grow maybe ? or what would you like to see?
Dea: that match of nada + rock vs boxer + gorush i think, where nada won 1v2 after rock lost miserably
Tenryu: 2v2 scene grow.. hmm
Dea: more tournaments for sure
Tenryu: yeh
Dea: not just iccup tours
Tenryu: I like bwcl's idea of 2 2x2 games however, maybe if more tournaments added that in there more people would train 2v2 to get some wins rather then just throw 2 1x1 players and hope for the best, because it IS a different type of play
Xeris: so do you like that BWCL has 2 2v2s ?
Tenryu: yeh I do
Dea: it makes teams focus a bit more on 2v2 since thats 2 points per clanwar
Xeris: ok so if you had to name maybe top 3-4 2v2 teams who would you name?
Dea: well
Tenryu: Yan/Capigui is definitely #1 imo
Dea: I dont think anyone will argue that yan/capigui are #1
Tenryu: they hit A- with like 0 losses and A+ with 10, lol
Dea: if we exclude sparkyzjs and his hypergosu zerg ally :D
Tenryu: hmm #1 Yan/Capigui fuk, lol
Dea: existminizerg + iesan are very good too
Tenryu: its like same 10-15 people on top of charts on iccup every season
Dea: dark + energy also
Tenryu: dark + energy is good yeh
Dea: they played vs us some weird-ass TZ strats
Tenryu: dark has been allying dj recently but idk how good they are as a team
Dea: and if we were to mention old teams, I think dahli/pythonas, gohan/fabian, ljt/xiaozi... there are also alot of 2v2 players that ally anyone that own pretty hard
Tenryu: skyless has an awesome 2x2 zerg he pretty much allies any1 too tho. theres alot of ok players also but they talk alot of shit so I dont feel like mentioning them
Dea: haha
Tenryu: Ladder 2x2 has alot of cocky american players -_-
Dea: its like east but with ranks
Xeris: haha, ok let's see
Dea: alot of DOJing too
Xeris: what about the MB team you guys lost to ? like your only 2v2 loss ever :p
Dea: hah yea
Tenryu: for cw's yeah
Xeris: except when you lost vs NrT lol
Tenryu: cuz dea is dumb
Dea: nrt was like bo1 so that doesnt count keke :D
Tenryu: fo sho bo1 doesnt count -_-
Dea: well vs MB it was weird. i think they were heavily favored by the maps, for a PT team to have 2 maps with dual gas mains its imba
Tenryu: nah MB, Vampire + Hannibal - 2gas maps favor PT if they play right
Tenryu: when we re'd on a 1gas map it was such ez win -_-
Xeris: ok let's see what 2v2 team havent you played that you wish you could play ?
Tenryu: but they played those maps right, they played it good
Dea: yea, hmm
Tenryu: I wanna play ljt/xiaozi, I havent played them yet
Dea: probably mondie/testie if they were active as a team
Tenryu: yeh that would be fun. any considered the best I wanna play
Xeris: alright let's see
Tenryu: :-O like we played mass games vs cap/yan, those were fun losses -_-
Dea: LOL
Xeris: how many times on a weekly basis do you sex hap's mom?
Dea: losses by the dozen
Tenryu: oh man hmm
Dea: lol well she has helped us out in a lot of tough times
Tenryu: indeed
Dea: *hint* *hint* I think our new accounts
Xeris: any last words / shout out etc ?
Tenryu: HapsMom + HapsDad[LighT]
Dea: ya
Tenryu: wootage
Xeris: ^_^
Dea: are a tribute too her sexyness
Tenryu: last shout out huh
Xeris: last words ?!
Dea: STFU GTFO :D
Dea: well I think anyone can reach B- 2v2 if they have a decent ally but after that, gl hf
Tenryu: indeed, but more like STFU GTFO B cuz it requires more skill then u think -_-
Dea: shoutouts? hmm
Tenryu: TO MICHAEL JACKSON
Xeris: go for it !
Tenryu: MY LOVER
Dea: HAPS MOM
Tenryu: I MISS YOU
Dea: well shoutout to team light for being so pwnage
Tenryu: wow on ur knees much
Dea: :D
Xeris: loool, thanks for teh interview =D
Dea: i wanna shoutout too lindsey
Tenryu: cya~
Xeris: hap's sister? =D
Dea: NO U MORON LOL
Xeris: thanks guys. KEEP OWNING
Dea: thx oh and dont keep haps mom up too long tonight
Dea: PAVLO ISE KEFTES ^^ plz mention that too
Dea: Shoutout to the Greek community!
Click the spoiler tag to read the full interview!
<3 2v2!
**PS : How do I embed the youtube videos? I want to post the vods!** Thanks~
If you enjoyed this, feel free to leave a comment: HERE. Thanks!
2v2 is really awesome. LighT has always had nice 2v2 teams. I remember playing Devaz+Moo and their decision making and cooperation was really good. Think me and Cow went 1-2 against them.
I really enjoy playing 2v2 on iccup. It's jsut hard to find a partner. I don't care changing day-day but in the 2x2 ladder, its all about spamming LOOKING FOR GOOD PARTNER.... STFU and play.. have fun.. O_o
I really like 2v2 and teamgames in general. They are much more intense and I guess thats why I like them. The only problem is finding 4good players that knows how to play for some interesting games. Get's boring if some players goes 1v1 and foreces lategame or early stopming from the other team. The only place where you can find good 2v2 #Brood War Ladder @Asia. However that is hunters games and also a bit tricky to actually get games with understandable GN/Pass if you dont have and ally already. Also I'm a little bit low on skill to be playing there in the first place and it's hard to get better in normal pubbie games.
Right now I mostly play casual teamgames with friends.
Maybe we should have a 2v2 TSL type of tournament to inject some life in the 2v2 scene. Many of the top players until ~2003 were really good in 2v2.
2v2 is by far what I have played the most during my years playing SC/BW.
Actually by the time I had played this game for some 6 years I had barely played 50 1v1 games, but hundreds or probably thousands of 2v2 and 3v3 low money maps, mostly public games though, so the level wasn't really that high.
It's only in 2004 that I started picking up 1v1 a bit, 2v2 is still my main turf. I am nowhere tear top of the crop, but I used to have decent results in BWCL div1&2 between 2005 and 2007, mostly playing with CoW. I understand where your love for 2v2 stems from, Xeris, and I want to encourage people to play it (although I basically stopped playing SC/BW 1.5 years ago or so).
It's simply a lot of fun, especially when you play among friends, like 2 2v2 teams of your clan and then switch players around, talk some trash, play the next game, etc. Good times.
On November 07 2008 00:57 Carnac wrote: 2v2 is by far what I have played the most during my years playing SC/BW.
Actually by the time I had played this game for some 6 years I had barely played 50 1v1 games, but hundreds or probably thousands of 2v2 and 3v3 low money maps, mostly public games though, so the level wasn't really that high.
It's only in 2004 that I started picking up 1v1 a bit, 2v2 is still my main turf. I am nowhere tear top of the crop, but I used to have decent results in BWCL div1&2 between 2005 and 2007, mostly playing with CoW. I understand where your love for 2v2 stems from, Xeris, and I want to encourage people to play it (although I basically stopped playing SC/BW 1.5 years ago or so).
It's simply a lot of fun, especially when you play among friends, like 2 2v2 teams of your clan and then switch players around, talk some trash, play the next game, etc. Good times.
I've played a 2v2 with you once vs Malmis and FA, we won ofcourse. It was in january 06 btw.
On November 07 2008 07:53 comabreaded wrote: I liked the interview, thx!
any reps plz?
Actually yes, I totally forgot... I have a rep-pack of about 37 or so of their best games. I'm going to upload it when I get home from school tonight! Sorry about that... I'll also fix the youtube thingie when I get home.
xeris, just the youtube link should work in the future (I think it already got pointed out though).
It's not only hard to find a partner in 2v2, but it's really hard to figure out all of the strategies and ways to work together. It makes the game much more complex than in 1v1.
I almost only play 2v2, I loved it ever since I started to watch Starcraft. I'm just a team player and I love micro. It's sad to say, but for the first time in 2,5 years I have actually skipped watching a progaming VOD simply cause I find the new proleague really dull and repetitive. I can't stand all those 1v1:s, so I only watch individual leagues now. They better pick up 2v2 next season/year again
Let's just arrange a TL 2v2 tourny sometime? Sounds fun to me, but like you said it would be hard to find a competent ally who you can communicate with.
Grobyc members have tried to do it before but organizing it and getting people on time things like that became a problem for that group. Maybe if it could be run again it may be better
fixed youtube links *AND* added replay pack. if someone can tell me somewhere better to upload it that would be cool (apparently rapidshare only allows 10 downloads now?)
its 2:2 news post for all players...not just tenryu + dea if you want to motivate 2:2 community, why are you showing poor quality replays of quick wins vs good players a good long lose game is better to show than fast win game why u only upload winning games? and 6 replays vs me i think its BM you upload all your winning games vs me when i'm sure i won a lot more and the replays you uploaded of me are not even good games-- and why VODs are old games that are not good if tenryu was A- for 3 seasons surely he has better replays than this. the news looks like its more for tenryu + dea than 2:2 community how do you know about my 1:1 skill? i was A+ 1:1 and 2:2 PGT Just i stopped 1x1 cuz no fun sorry about this post but i feel attacked some by this news
Meh Yan, what do u mean "if Tenryu was A-". I was A- ever since uve been A+ each season but anyways. Me and dea looked through many replays and alot of our A- games were quick games. We tried to find as many "good" games that werent under 12 minutes in length. And only 6 replays vs you out what? 37 replays, its not that much. If u read the interview me and Dea compliment on you and capigui easily being #1 team and i even mentioned that me and Dea enjoyed losing "MANY" games vs you two. So please dont start bming and crying, every1 knows your Mr gosu. And besides, noone gives a fuck of what you accomplished in PGT, PGT is nothing anymore. ICCup is far more competetive and difficult than PGT. Anyways, pretty sure i threw my point out there.
I've mostly started playing ladder on 2v2, so 2v2 will always be something special to me 2v2 are really great, waaay more strategical, and playing with a partner you know is quite fun.
Thanks for the Rep pack, I'll have to take a look at this
hmm i didn't know that tenryu + dea had a fanclub, xeris you are a good leader, you make em look real good. Tenryu, yan is not referring to the interview when he says this, the reps you guys posted were all really bad, showing bad replays, winning with stupid mistakes, and making everyone but you guys look chobo lol.... This post is supposed to be about the art of 2v2, I can think of a couple or replays right now vs you 2 where you guys lost, but both are over 12 minutes and they are 100000x better games. I don't know why you show noobreplays of you guys only winning? how does this promote the art of 2v2 in any way? Some admin pls........ rename this post "The Tenryu + DeA fan club" and maybe it will be a little more accurate. Anyways, its a cool post in some ways, I think 2v2 is dying because less and less foreigners are playing sc in general, be it 1v1 2v2 3v3 or even UMS, and no new players are coming. I really love 2v2, I find it a lot more enjoyable that 1v1, which just seems boring and lonely after 2v2ing, and I think that you need to play a lot smarter than in 1v1, where if you just play 100 games a day and get 300 apm and perfect 1 good strat for every matchup you can be a- iccup :D Someone should post some actual good replays in here though...
On November 07 2008 14:50 LonGGone wrote: And besides, noone gives a fuck of what you accomplished in PGT, PGT is nothing anymore. ICCup is far more competetive and difficult than PGT.
-Tenryu
On November 06 2008 15:48 Xeris wrote: Some of the greatest 2v2 players are not even that good at 1v1, like Yan for example.
On November 07 2008 14:42 FT.aCt)Yan wrote: how do you know about my 1:1 skill? i was A+ 1:1 and 2:2 PGT Just i stopped 1x1 cuz no fun
its not BM, i telling your leader he is wrong -_- why are you now BM to me? i am A- 1:1 iccup too ok? you BM me now too?
Wow so u watched all 37 replays? Anyways, i agree with you drewbie. We prolly could've spent a much longer time looking at massive auto replays for real goodgames that had some length to it. But its easier to find games u won becuz they are the only ones you recall =\. If you want, dea can spend his lovely time looking for massive replays that we lost to make you feel better. I'd do it but im finally in the states after 27 months for vacation and my regular computer is being shipped to washington :O
On November 07 2008 14:50 LonGGone wrote: And besides, noone gives a fuck of what you accomplished in PGT, PGT is nothing anymore. ICCup is far more competetive and difficult than PGT.
On November 07 2008 15:27 lrm)drewbie wrote: LOL its really ez to find games in bwchart man T_T sort by game length kkkk or search by players names
make your own rep pack and post it? lol. I already gave my reason why I talked about DeA+Tenryu, I asked them for reps and thats what they gave me.
again to Yan, maybe you just don't understand my post, I"m no saying you are chobo, but I'm saying you are not known for your 1v1 skill.
if you want to bitch about me choosing DeA+Tenryu then stay out of this thread because I already explained in my first post why I chose them.
This is simply to try and increase exposure of 2v2, the rep pack has entertaining games that obviously from comments people are enjoying, and that was the entire purpose of this.
if you are Yan or Drewbie or another high level 2v2 player, this post was NOT meant for you =p You guys can make your own rep packs and host it, do whatever the fuck you guys wanna do, lol.
This was meant for the more casual people who don't know much about 2v2 and are interested in it.
yes i understand this, but these reps arent exactly entertaining, they are just one team winning because of a stupid mistake, or sloppy play or something dumb.......
I want to mention that another thing that keeps people out of the 2v2 realm is that the vast majority of the 2v2 players on ICCUP are far more BM than anyone else. I've played at B+/A- 2v2 for 2 seasons now and it's not a very pleasant environment. I usually have to squelch people, even some of the people posting in this thread. As Tenryu said, there are a LOT of really, really annoying and BM easties on iccup 2v2, particularly Americans (this is a statistic, not a bias).
I was going to say that Ten and Dea are certainly a good 2v2 team but the replays honestly are not that good. Nyana play like crap that game in the youtube game.
But, anyone will skill knows that. Humility is good. This is a for fun thread and I'm glad someone is trying to help 2v2 out. Anyways in the interview, Dea and Ten are very modest. It's definitely 10x more fun than 1v1 for me and a lot of other people. As Xeris said, if you're going to complain that "someone" should post some good replays, then maybe you should do it.
anyway if i post all my gosu reps, everyone will copy my style, im fucking #1 2v2 terran ever, i wouldnt want that ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^;;;;;;;;;;; XDDDDDDDDDDD anyway i have reps on gosugamers.net / wgtour.com / iccup.com + deiv's gosu 2x2 site xDDDDDDDDDDD pls go there search for good 2x2 reps
On November 07 2008 14:50 LonGGone wrote: And besides, noone gives a fuck of what you accomplished in PGT, PGT is nothing anymore. ICCup is far more competetive and difficult than PGT.
On November 06 2008 23:08 RaGe wrote: 2v2 is really awesome. LighT has always had nice 2v2 teams. I remember playing Devaz+Moo and their decision making and cooperation was really good. Think me and Cow went 1-2 against them.
Yes, 2v2 is one of the most and teamwork depending modes on BW.
I really loved to play 2v2, but I lost a lot of partners, and so on. I often join and find my old partner, and we play a couple of games, they are all like super fun.
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On November 07 2008 20:38 lrm)drewbie wrote: anyway if i post all my gosu reps, everyone will copy my style, im fucking #1 2v2 terran ever, i wouldnt want that ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^;;;;;;;;;;; XDDDDDDDDDDD anyway i have reps on gosugamers.net / wgtour.com / iccup.com + deiv's gosu 2x2 site xDDDDDDDDDDD pls go there search for good 2x2 reps
Now how can you post this filth. You know I read this forum right? When it comes to non-korean 2v2, I am the no.1 at everything. Always have been, always will be. And that still holds true, even in inactivity.
RapidShare: This file is neither allocated to a Premium Account, or a Collector's Account, and can therefore only be downloaded 10 times.
This limit is reached.
To download this file, the uploader either needs to transfer this file into his/her Collector's Account, or upload the file again. The file can later be moved to a Collector's Account. The uploader just needs to click the delete link of the file to get further information.
T_T
anyone know where I can upload the replay pack so that it can be downloaded more times ?
I love 2v2, almost the only thing I play. Have played with a friend for some 8 years now, it's great fun. Too bad they removed 2v2 from PL, 5 1v1's in a row can get quite stale. And it affects some teams a great deal. Personally I think it would've been better to create a 2v2 league rather than completely removing the format; the gameplay would've evolved a great deal and better 2v2-teams could've been astablished, making it more popular.
Yeh the main reason we chose the replays we chose was lookin for good matches vs "good", "known" or somewhat known teams for those who arent that good in 2v2 know what kinda strategy and builds a top team uses. Atleast thats the main reason why i chose the replays i did. We did have some decent games vs nobodies but like xeris said, this was more for the lesser 2v2ers rather then gosu's like drew/yan. Good feedback i suppose, next time if we ever do a reppack we'll take this into consideration.
This thread is fantastic. Chalk full of great information about 2v2, replays, and pro 2v2ers posting . I've been playing some 2v2 with my friend and it's lots of fun. I'll definitely check out the replays nyana posted.
Um. I wasn't really expecting Xeris to post my commentaries here as examples for his articles but I suppose if anybody has anything to say, positively or negatively. Please PM me and I would greatly appreciate the feedback. Please be constructive though. I just don't want 100 PM's saying "I liked it. or "I didn't like it." I would like genuine examples//critiques of what you think I did well or didn't do well.
Indeed, i personally think alot of people are just frustrated with random allies and thats why ICCup 2x2 is dieing. Everyone starts out with a random ally. Its up to the individuals themselves to be patient with each other and train/learn on how they should 2v2. For you lower rank 2x2 players just find some1 who is willing to train and make a team, figure out what matchup you guys are best at or what feels most comfortable and stay it. Dont always try to switch TZ and PZ and ZZ or play random, your team is not going to get better if you just play random :O
last time i remember Yan/capigui won vs LJT/mondi 7-1 or 8-1
and vs LJT/timothy yan+jesus[sb] 9-1 this season.. so they are not as good as they used to be
and about Mondi/Testie.. they had 50-1 at pgtour 2v2 and everyone thought they were gosus, what about yan capigui who were 72 or 73-0 A-, 1 or 2 seasons ago (iccup) and they finished with 150-10 A+.
So... now Yan and capigui is the best 2v2 team and everyone who's into 2v2 scene knows that.
In all honesty most of the top 2v2 foreigners are not that great as players individually, barring people like Testie, Mondi, etc. Of course, that's the nature of 2v2 - you don't have to be anywhere NEAR A- 1v1 to get A- 2v2. 2v2 is about knowing BO's and strategies and having a wide experience base for all sorts of different possible games. I think that if Koreans had any interest in 2v2 they would rape the crap out of the "top" foreigner 2v2ers in like 5 seconds, after a couple weeks of practice to get down the BO's and various strategies in 2v2. Justin/Flower looked like they were reading a magazine while they raped some of the "best" foreigner teams. Most of the top 2v2ers are not that great players but massively experienced. If you combine the mechanics and individual skill of a really good amateur Korean with a few weeks 2v2 experience I really think it would just be astounding how badly they would own.
NoobsOfWrath Justin is known as the "best" 2:2 Terran in Korea. The fact that he is the "best" and a progamer, destroying non-Korean top teams shouldn't come as a surprise. I mean, the best 1:1 Koreans destroy top foreigners without breaking a sweat, so why should 2:2 be any different? Just pointing out its a bad example. However I do agree that 2:2 high ranks do not take as much "1:1 skill" but you can't compare the two really: they are different games. The similarities are macro and micro. If you have crap control odds are you won't be winning much at all in the highest ranks unless you're playing against other opponents with crap control. 2:2 has different timing, different builds/strategies, and relies heavily on micro and therefor multitasking. It is true that some of the higher ranking players aren't necessarily that good as players - but that's because there aren't as many 2:2 players. The player base is much smaller than that of 1:1. While there are a few select players who are ahead of all others in 2:2 skill, everyone else is just playing less talented players, like themselves, and therefor being able to achieve high ranks. A larger player base would mean a larger pool of highly skilled players at the top - thus pushing the weaker players down from higher ranks. Then and only then would the 2:2 rankings be more "accurate".
But to add on as a response to that post, yes "Koreans" (assuming you mean highly skilled players [ex. semi pro-pro]) would probably be able to devastate most/all top non-Korean 2:2 teams after they learn builds, styles, and counters. I mean, why not? They already have top notch control and knowledge of timing.
ANYWAYS! I like 2:2, its really fun! However I wish it would be more competitive. I hope that we are able to bring more players into our community. I do think that more events are necessary in order to bring more attention to it. Perhaps more replay packs should be posted more often as well.
ANYWAYS! I like 2:2, its really fun! However I wish it would be more competitive. I hope that we are able to bring more players into our community. I do think that more events are necessary in order to bring more attention to it. Perhaps more replay packs should be posted more often as well.
Indeed, competitiveness always brings more fun to a game :D
Oh shit I got it. What if ICcup assigned you a partner? Like you enter when you can play and what race of teammate you want and it assigned you a teammate? it would be like internet dating for SC players lol.
MAYBE IF PEOPLE STOPPED PLAYING ON PYTHON FOR EVERY FUCKING SINGLE GAME 2v2 WOULD BE BALLER COOL.
lol j/k.
I ithnk the things that killed 2v2 in the proleague was that the map makers couldnt find a way to create maps that would make 2v2 intersting and balanced at the same time. We've had several cool maps in proleague over the years though, like Iron Curtains, Hwansangbul (or however the fuck you spell it), Hannibal, and i guess Vampire also, but sometimes the maps slightly favored a certain team combo over the other (hunters or seangangil for example).
I just find it a shame that not everyone plays on the cooler more interesting maps that were MEANT for 2v2.
3v3 BGH was fun occasionally, but from the get to since ive been playing, it never seemed like that big of a deal. It wasnt like there were tons of strictly 2v2 tourneys ( i mean there were some from time to time, but nothing big).
You had to depend on having people on....and then it became even more repative than 1 on 1.......and you had to rely on a partner in a game that you have already established in your mind as being 1v1...... its like playing team golf or team pool..... sure you can play and it might be fun sometimes but its more like let me control the damn ball/units. Im playing the game so I want to play.
Basketball and other team games/sports even when you arent directly involved you can play a vital role in getting rebounds, picks, defense, passing, scoring, etc.
On November 09 2008 11:07 MYM.Testie wrote: How is it more repetitive than 1v1? It's just as versatile and so many matchups !!! But seriously, no team will crush us. We will fucking crush them.
I dunno, in most games the tech never developed or just bleh.....
On November 09 2008 11:07 MYM.Testie wrote: How is it more repetitive than 1v1? It's just as versatile and so many matchups !!! But seriously, no team will crush us. We will fucking crush them.
Testie don't wait for someone else to set it up, get ahold of mondi and post a challenge, it would provide good entertainment for the community and it would be pimp if u guys did still rock ^^;;.
On November 06 2008 15:48 Xeris wrote: 2v2: The Forgotten Art
Team matches in Brood War used to be much more popular than they are today, back in the day, when dinosaurs roamed the earth, it was not uncommon to have several team matches, 2v2 and even 3v3 games played in clanwars - I myself remember playing and witnessing some really epic matches. As time has gone on however, team play has gotten increasingly less attention eventually culminating in the recent announcement that this new season of Proleague would not feature 2v2 any longer.
Unlike the game itself, 2v2 seems to be a dying art - there are few really strong, consistent 2v2 teams that are well known in the community, the ICCUP 2v2 ladder almost ALWAYS features the same people every season getting top ranks, and 2v2 matches are usually never heard of outside of WGTCL and BWCL. Why is it that 2v2 has declined so much from the glory days of Vanilla and early Brood War where it was hugely popular?
The 2v2 Problem
There are several reasons why I believe 2v2 is increasingly decreasing in popularity:
1) Lack of media attention - for example think about any report done on a league (whether it be WGTCL, BWCL, or even Proleague); and you will notice that the 2v2 gets little attention. The progamers who focus on 2v2 are usually much less known than their 1v1 counterparts, and the same goes for the foreign scene.
2) It may oftentimes difficult to follow the action in 2v2 games. One may argue that the game is intense enough with just two players battling, and with having to watch four players at a time, it often can get too confusing. Whatever the reasons behind it, one thing is certain: there are less and less 2v2 players every year.
3) It is hard to find good, stable partners. Since 2v2 is really about communication, finding a partner you can coordinate specific hours to play with may be difficult and lead to people not caring enough to play 2v2 seriously.
4) The lack of 2v2 (on ladders such as ICCUP) continues a downward spiral because it makes practicing much more difficult.
2v2 is Great - Try it!
It is my goal to shed some light on the forgotten art that is 2v2. Not only is 2v2 faster paced and oftentimes more exciting than 1v1 games, the strategies employed are vastly different than 1v1, and the skillset is also incredibly different - 2v2 is a totally different game than 1v1. Some of the greatest 2v2 players are not even that good at 1v1, like Yan for example. Here are some features that make 2v2 different than 1v1: In 2v2, really high APM is not as important, teamwork and communication are key, and balancing between macro and micro is more vital than in 1v1. For example, in 1v1 games it is pretty standard for any race and matchup to pump workers nearly until you reach 130-150 supply, with short pauses in between as needed to work on maximizing troop count at certain moments of games; this is not necessarily the case in 2v2. In 2v2 games it is more important to find the perfect number of workers that will allow you to macro strongly off of one base (a lot of 2v2 is fast paced enough that one base play is common); terrans often go 4 barracks off one base, while you will almost never see that in a 1v1 game.
Highlight: DeA and Tenryu
I am now going to highlight a specific 2v2 team to make my case that 2v2 is awesome. Hopefully after reading this, some people will be swayed to start playing, following, and taking 2v2 more seriously!
I have chosen DeA and Tenryu partially because they are in my team, so it was easy to access them and their replays, etc, but more so because they have become what I would argue, one of the best non Korean 2v2 teams in the community, and because their games are fun and entertaining to watch.
Here is a quick bio of some of their accomplishments:
* Reached A- rank on ICCUP in three (just reached A- this season) different seasons * Combined 13-2 record in BWCL the past two seasons * 4-0 against MYM 2v2 teams of Strelok+White-Ra and Strelok+DinOt
Xeris: cool ok, start off with your guys' names since most people don't know you
Dea: how dare they :D, ten go first
Tenryu: Daniel Perez, last name is longer but.. dont feel like typing it
Dea: James Moutafidis
Xeris: how long have you guys been playing together ?
Dea: i think 6 months
Tenryu: same, a little more then 6 months
Dea: cause when i got back from australia i was still 1v1ing and no 2v2ing
Dea: i think our very first 2v2 together was vs MYM with like zero training
Xeris: :D
Tenryu: fo sho
Xeris: ok so tell me the "story" how did you guys decide to partner up, was it love at first sight ?
Tenryu: I was transition from 1v1 to 2v2
Dea: hahahaha
Tenryu: and Dea was like B+ iccup and i guess I asked for ally? or something
Dea: well I kinda knew tenryu was gosu 2v2 since he was pwning everyone up in the ladder. I didnt really like to play with him however cause I kinda hated having a Terran ally I was more used to ZP and ZZ teams
Tenryu: until u noticed all pro users = TZ team -_- or good teams = TZ team
Dea: ya well tenryu showed me the basics of how TZ works so after that it was kinda easy to follow along
Tenryu: i tried to give him basics, i just told him to do what i see my previous partner uT)Skyless do
Xeris: cool cool
Tenryu: but he B+ gosu in 1v1 so he caught on quick, then we just played alot cuz many ez wins and some ez losses, as with ever1
Dea: ya those random losses where we would be like "WTF how did that happen?" over ventrillo.
Tenryu: indeed but we always talked over it and was like, "we'll think about how to fix this next time" or something
Xeris: ok so Ten I know you used to be random what made you decide on sticking to terran with james instead of maybe doing ZP or something?
Tenryu: lol well before i joined [light] i played alot 2x2 with uT)Skyless, we was in sfc_ at the time. I tried P and and stuff but my Terran was the best in 2x2 so i stuck to that for 1v1
Dea: its a good thing you did cause if u were P i would hate ZP mirror match-ups
Tenryu: i did random but now i do T also just to help me out when i need to 2x1
Xeris: ok so what is your favorite matchup ?
Tenryu: TZ v ZZ maybe
Dea: lol nah id say vs PZ
Tenryu: true PZ is funnest, ZZ is easiest
Dea: id say we are more confident vs PZ
Tenryu: and TZ v TZ is hard for me
Dea: TZ mirror is really weird
Tenryu: id say thats our weakest mu and it sucks becuz like 95% of the teams B+ ++ are TZ teams
Xeris: ah
Dea: yea true one thing that was hard for us with TZ mirror was when zergs would go for 1hatch mutas instead of the old 2hatch ramp. so learning how to play 1hatch mutas was kinda awkward
Tenryu: Lol it seemd like after every1 watched reps of that dude that 107-1 on ICCup 2x2 they tried copy him and his allies, so every1 does 1h muta now
Dea: but it is probably the best way to go, ya, SparkyzJS or something like that
Tenryu: yeh we transitioned from 1h and 2h all the time didnt really kno how to play it or figure out how to
Dea: thats kinda what made u use ur marines more without medics, u know?
Xeris: alright so explain a little bit how 2v2 is different than 1v1 for those who dont know 2v2
Dea: well I would say 2v2 is more micro-intense from the get-go
Tenryu: u dont focus much on macro, I noticed from watchin many replays of us losing to Yan/Capigui, who are an insane 2x2 team that cutting SCVz is really important to control game early on. controlling the game is very important, and it uses teamwork obviously
Tenryu: like 3-4 rine and 6 ling can take 2 zealot and 6 ling pretty easy depending on how well u and ur ally micro, actually we've taken 3 z and 6 ling at one pt with like 2-3 rine and 6 ling
Dea: haha
Xeris: ok so also it seems like a lot of 1v1 is based on macro late game style while 2v2 rarely gets to the late game stage, is it rare for you to play late game 2v2 ? and how does that look different than 1v1?
Tenryu: when I was lookin at bwchart id say about 83% of who knows how many 2x2 games I've played its been under 12 minutes. I hate late game 2x2
Dea: I think on all iccup seasons weve played together we have an average of 10 minutes per game. I think we play very agressive for TZ and try to end the game as fast as possible; sometimes we overdo it
Tenryu: late game 2x2 is kinda similar to 1v1 I think? idk, its real macro heavy and the main races, T or P need mass expos. I consider zerg more of a support while T and P macros zerg kinda just harasses and helps ally expand
Dea: ya late game I would have to agree its much more important for the leading races to expo instead of the supporting ones. zerg only needs gas to increase his muta count
Xeris: ok let's see, on to some more general 2v2 questions: what are your thoughts about the "2v2 scene", why is it so small?
Tenryu: good question
Dea: hmm, yea idk. I think its kinda hard to find a decent ally to train with and reach the level that you want
Tenryu: I just think people dont consider 2x2 to have as much skill as 1x1. in some way it doesnt, and in some ways it involves more
Dea: its a different type of skill and its got a different way of thinking
Tenryu: like I've seen an A+ 1x1, forgot his name, he maybe was like 67% A+ and he was like 50% B- 2x2. being good 1x1 helps but its a team effotrt u cant 1x2 every game no matter how good u are, u are bound to lose to newbs 2x2 that u would normally own in 1x1
Xeris: :D!
Dea: well most 1v1 players that try to 2v2 I think get caught up in playing macro-ish, they make too many workers which puts them behind in map control and army count
Tenryu: yup, they play heavy worker style so they play late game when 2x2 is early game
Dea: for instance I could play with 6-7 drones for 10 minutes producing lings non stop to get the edge
Tenryu: I just think people think 2v2 involves no skill, thats the answer I get most of the time or what i see; after I win a 2v2, "lets 1v1, see whos better"
Dea: haha
Xeris: :D!
Tenryu: If I wanted to 1v1 I'll play 1v1 games, not 2v2 games
Dea: to play 2v2 I think you need to know what to do in alot of circumstances that may arise during the game
Xeris: I dont know how much you follow the korean scene, but how do you feel about 2v2 being taken out of proleague ?
Tenryu: but dea is right too, its hard to get a good ally to constantly play with
Tenryu: I dont pay attention to the korean scene
Dea: well I think it kinda sucks cause its always nice to see what the koreans can do in their 2v2 matches some weird strats !. but I think lately all 2v2 matches were PZ v PZ so that was kinda boring. iron curtain was a good 2v2 map tho nice games played on that map
Xeris: yes it was! it was the coolest map ever
Xeris: what do you think could be done to help the 2v2 scene grow maybe ? or what would you like to see?
Dea: that match of nada + rock vs boxer + gorush i think, where nada won 1v2 after rock lost miserably
Tenryu: 2v2 scene grow.. hmm
Dea: more tournaments for sure
Tenryu: yeh
Dea: not just iccup tours
Tenryu: I like bwcl's idea of 2 2x2 games however, maybe if more tournaments added that in there more people would train 2v2 to get some wins rather then just throw 2 1x1 players and hope for the best, because it IS a different type of play
Xeris: so do you like that BWCL has 2 2v2s ?
Tenryu: yeh I do
Dea: it makes teams focus a bit more on 2v2 since thats 2 points per clanwar
Xeris: ok so if you had to name maybe top 3-4 2v2 teams who would you name?
Dea: well
Tenryu: Yan/Capigui is definitely #1 imo
Dea: I dont think anyone will argue that yan/capigui are #1
Tenryu: they hit A- with like 0 losses and A+ with 10, lol
Dea: if we exclude sparkyzjs and his hypergosu zerg ally :D
Tenryu: hmm #1 Yan/Capigui fuk, lol
Dea: existminizerg + iesan are very good too
Tenryu: its like same 10-15 people on top of charts on iccup every season
Dea: dark + energy also
Tenryu: dark + energy is good yeh
Dea: they played vs us some weird-ass TZ strats
Tenryu: dark has been allying dj recently but idk how good they are as a team
Dea: and if we were to mention old teams, I think dahli/pythonas, gohan/fabian, ljt/xiaozi... there are also alot of 2v2 players that ally anyone that own pretty hard
Tenryu: skyless has an awesome 2x2 zerg he pretty much allies any1 too tho. theres alot of ok players also but they talk alot of shit so I dont feel like mentioning them
Dea: haha
Tenryu: Ladder 2x2 has alot of cocky american players -_-
Dea: its like east but with ranks
Xeris: haha, ok let's see
Dea: alot of DOJing too
Xeris: what about the MB team you guys lost to ? like your only 2v2 loss ever :p
Dea: hah yea
Tenryu: for cw's yeah
Xeris: except when you lost vs NrT lol
Tenryu: cuz dea is dumb
Dea: nrt was like bo1 so that doesnt count keke :D
Tenryu: fo sho bo1 doesnt count -_-
Dea: well vs MB it was weird. i think they were heavily favored by the maps, for a PT team to have 2 maps with dual gas mains its imba
Tenryu: nah MB, Vampire + Hannibal - 2gas maps favor PT if they play right
Tenryu: when we re'd on a 1gas map it was such ez win -_-
Xeris: ok let's see what 2v2 team havent you played that you wish you could play ?
Tenryu: but they played those maps right, they played it good
Dea: yea, hmm
Tenryu: I wanna play ljt/xiaozi, I havent played them yet
Dea: probably mondie/testie if they were active as a team
Tenryu: yeh that would be fun. any considered the best I wanna play
Xeris: alright let's see
Tenryu: :-O like we played mass games vs cap/yan, those were fun losses -_-
Dea: LOL
Xeris: how many times on a weekly basis do you sex hap's mom?
Dea: losses by the dozen
Tenryu: oh man hmm
Dea: lol well she has helped us out in a lot of tough times
Tenryu: indeed
Dea: *hint* *hint* I think our new accounts
Xeris: any last words / shout out etc ?
Tenryu: HapsMom + HapsDad[LighT]
Dea: ya
Tenryu: wootage
Xeris: ^_^
Dea: are a tribute too her sexyness
Tenryu: last shout out huh
Xeris: last words ?!
Dea: STFU GTFO :D
Dea: well I think anyone can reach B- 2v2 if they have a decent ally but after that, gl hf
Tenryu: indeed, but more like STFU GTFO B cuz it requires more skill then u think -_-
Dea: shoutouts? hmm
Tenryu: TO MICHAEL JACKSON
Xeris: go for it !
Tenryu: MY LOVER
Dea: HAPS MOM
Tenryu: I MISS YOU
Dea: well shoutout to team light for being so pwnage
Tenryu: wow on ur knees much
Dea: :D
Xeris: loool, thanks for teh interview =D
Dea: i wanna shoutout too lindsey
Tenryu: cya~
Xeris: hap's sister? =D
Dea: NO U MORON LOL
Xeris: thanks guys. KEEP OWNING
Dea: thx oh and dont keep haps mom up too long tonight
Dea: PAVLO ISE KEFTES ^^ plz mention that too
Dea: Shoutout to the Greek community!
Click the spoiler tag to read the full interview!
Replay Pack
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You are trying to advertise how fun 2v2 is but why do you link to two horrible vods? The narrator even said one of the players had no clue what he was doing. And the reason no one likes to 2v2, because It's just Z/P vs Z/P obviously.
I play almost only 2on2. Because it's simply more fun if you can teamspeak with your partner while playing. Main problem is that most people only know LT, Luna and Python -_-
On November 08 2008 07:10 CharlieMurphy wrote: I support this thread, My old 2v2 Partner has since fell out of BW. His name was Sandster and he played terran on [Mech] west with me a lot. We owned.
On November 08 2008 07:10 CharlieMurphy wrote: I support this thread, My old 2v2 Partner has since fell out of BW. His name was Sandster and he played terran on [Mech] west with me a lot. We owned.
GREAT TOPIC MAN !!!!! GOOD ONE! I am mostly 2v2 player and all i can say i know these guys well, mostly Yan and Ten, but all i can say is that the comentator must not be there, no need, all other is PERFECT !!! I LOVE 2v2, even 3v3 or 4v4 when i am with friends :[-] Go Go Go, post this in other SC sites too !!!
You are trying to advertise how fun 2v2 is but why do you link to two horrible vods? The narrator even said one of the players had no clue what he was doing. And the reason no one likes to 2v2, because It's just Z/P vs Z/P obviously.
There is probably just as many TZ teams as there are PZ teams.
On November 06 2008 15:48 Xeris wrote: 2v2: The Forgotten Art
Team matches in Brood War used to be much more popular than they are today, back in the day, when dinosaurs roamed the earth, it was not uncommon to have several team matches, 2v2 and even 3v3 games played in clanwars - I myself remember playing and witnessing some really epic matches. As time has gone on however, team play has gotten increasingly less attention eventually culminating in the recent announcement that this new season of Proleague would not feature 2v2 any longer.
Unlike the game itself, 2v2 seems to be a dying art - there are few really strong, consistent 2v2 teams that are well known in the community, the ICCUP 2v2 ladder almost ALWAYS features the same people every season getting top ranks, and 2v2 matches are usually never heard of outside of WGTCL and BWCL. Why is it that 2v2 has declined so much from the glory days of Vanilla and early Brood War where it was hugely popular?
The 2v2 Problem
There are several reasons why I believe 2v2 is increasingly decreasing in popularity:
1) Lack of media attention - for example think about any report done on a league (whether it be WGTCL, BWCL, or even Proleague); and you will notice that the 2v2 gets little attention. The progamers who focus on 2v2 are usually much less known than their 1v1 counterparts, and the same goes for the foreign scene.
2) It may oftentimes difficult to follow the action in 2v2 games. One may argue that the game is intense enough with just two players battling, and with having to watch four players at a time, it often can get too confusing. Whatever the reasons behind it, one thing is certain: there are less and less 2v2 players every year.
3) It is hard to find good, stable partners. Since 2v2 is really about communication, finding a partner you can coordinate specific hours to play with may be difficult and lead to people not caring enough to play 2v2 seriously.
4) The lack of 2v2 (on ladders such as ICCUP) continues a downward spiral because it makes practicing much more difficult.
2v2 is Great - Try it!
It is my goal to shed some light on the forgotten art that is 2v2. Not only is 2v2 faster paced and oftentimes more exciting than 1v1 games, the strategies employed are vastly different than 1v1, and the skillset is also incredibly different - 2v2 is a totally different game than 1v1. Some of the greatest 2v2 players are not even that good at 1v1, like Yan for example. Here are some features that make 2v2 different than 1v1: In 2v2, really high APM is not as important, teamwork and communication are key, and balancing between macro and micro is more vital than in 1v1. For example, in 1v1 games it is pretty standard for any race and matchup to pump workers nearly until you reach 130-150 supply, with short pauses in between as needed to work on maximizing troop count at certain moments of games; this is not necessarily the case in 2v2. In 2v2 games it is more important to find the perfect number of workers that will allow you to macro strongly off of one base (a lot of 2v2 is fast paced enough that one base play is common); terrans often go 4 barracks off one base, while you will almost never see that in a 1v1 game.
Highlight: DeA and Tenryu
I am now going to highlight a specific 2v2 team to make my case that 2v2 is awesome. Hopefully after reading this, some people will be swayed to start playing, following, and taking 2v2 more seriously!
I have chosen DeA and Tenryu partially because they are in my team, so it was easy to access them and their replays, etc, but more so because they have become what I would argue, one of the best non Korean 2v2 teams in the community, and because their games are fun and entertaining to watch.
Here is a quick bio of some of their accomplishments:
* Reached A- rank on ICCUP in three (just reached A- this season) different seasons * Combined 13-2 record in BWCL the past two seasons
* 4-0 against MYM 2v2 teams of Strelok+White-Ra and Strelok+DinOt
Xeris: cool ok, start off with your guys' names since most people don't know you
Dea: how dare they :D, ten go first
Tenryu: Daniel Perez, last name is longer but.. dont feel like typing it
Dea: James Moutafidis
Xeris: how long have you guys been playing together ?
Dea: i think 6 months
Tenryu: same, a little more then 6 months
Dea: cause when i got back from australia i was still 1v1ing and no 2v2ing
Dea: i think our very first 2v2 together was vs MYM with like zero training
Xeris: :D
Tenryu: fo sho
Xeris: ok so tell me the "story" how did you guys decide to partner up, was it love at first sight ?
Tenryu: I was transition from 1v1 to 2v2
Dea: hahahaha
Tenryu: and Dea was like B+ iccup and i guess I asked for ally? or something
Dea: well I kinda knew tenryu was gosu 2v2 since he was pwning everyone up in the ladder. I didnt really like to play with him however cause I kinda hated having a Terran ally I was more used to ZP and ZZ teams
Tenryu: until u noticed all pro users = TZ team -_- or good teams = TZ team
Dea: ya well tenryu showed me the basics of how TZ works so after that it was kinda easy to follow along
Tenryu: i tried to give him basics, i just told him to do what i see my previous partner uT)Skyless do
Xeris: cool cool
Tenryu: but he B+ gosu in 1v1 so he caught on quick, then we just played alot cuz many ez wins and some ez losses, as with ever1
Dea: ya those random losses where we would be like "WTF how did that happen?" over ventrillo.
Tenryu: indeed but we always talked over it and was like, "we'll think about how to fix this next time" or something
Xeris: ok so Ten I know you used to be random what made you decide on sticking to terran with james instead of maybe doing ZP or something?
Tenryu: lol well before i joined [light] i played alot 2x2 with uT)Skyless, we was in sfc_ at the time. I tried P and and stuff but my Terran was the best in 2x2 so i stuck to that for 1v1
Dea: its a good thing you did cause if u were P i would hate ZP mirror match-ups
Tenryu: i did random but now i do T also just to help me out when i need to 2x1
Xeris: ok so what is your favorite matchup ?
Tenryu: TZ v ZZ maybe
Dea: lol nah id say vs PZ
Tenryu: true PZ is funnest, ZZ is easiest
Dea: id say we are more confident vs PZ
Tenryu: and TZ v TZ is hard for me
Dea: TZ mirror is really weird
Tenryu: id say thats our weakest mu and it sucks becuz like 95% of the teams B+ ++ are TZ teams
Xeris: ah
Dea: yea true one thing that was hard for us with TZ mirror was when zergs would go for 1hatch mutas instead of the old 2hatch ramp. so learning how to play 1hatch mutas was kinda awkward
Tenryu: Lol it seemd like after every1 watched reps of that dude that 107-1 on ICCup 2x2 they tried copy him and his allies, so every1 does 1h muta now
Dea: but it is probably the best way to go, ya, SparkyzJS or something like that
Tenryu: yeh we transitioned from 1h and 2h all the time didnt really kno how to play it or figure out how to
Dea: thats kinda what made u use ur marines more without medics, u know?
Xeris: alright so explain a little bit how 2v2 is different than 1v1 for those who dont know 2v2
Dea: well I would say 2v2 is more micro-intense from the get-go
Tenryu: u dont focus much on macro, I noticed from watchin many replays of us losing to Yan/Capigui, who are an insane 2x2 team that cutting SCVz is really important to control game early on. controlling the game is very important, and it uses teamwork obviously
Tenryu: like 3-4 rine and 6 ling can take 2 zealot and 6 ling pretty easy depending on how well u and ur ally micro, actually we've taken 3 z and 6 ling at one pt with like 2-3 rine and 6 ling
Dea: haha
Xeris: ok so also it seems like a lot of 1v1 is based on macro late game style while 2v2 rarely gets to the late game stage, is it rare for you to play late game 2v2 ? and how does that look different than 1v1?
Tenryu: when I was lookin at bwchart id say about 83% of who knows how many 2x2 games I've played its been under 12 minutes. I hate late game 2x2
Dea: I think on all iccup seasons weve played together we have an average of 10 minutes per game. I think we play very agressive for TZ and try to end the game as fast as possible; sometimes we overdo it
Tenryu: late game 2x2 is kinda similar to 1v1 I think? idk, its real macro heavy and the main races, T or P need mass expos. I consider zerg more of a support while T and P macros zerg kinda just harasses and helps ally expand
Dea: ya late game I would have to agree its much more important for the leading races to expo instead of the supporting ones. zerg only needs gas to increase his muta count
Xeris: ok let's see, on to some more general 2v2 questions: what are your thoughts about the "2v2 scene", why is it so small?
Tenryu: good question
Dea: hmm, yea idk. I think its kinda hard to find a decent ally to train with and reach the level that you want
Tenryu: I just think people dont consider 2x2 to have as much skill as 1x1. in some way it doesnt, and in some ways it involves more
Dea: its a different type of skill and its got a different way of thinking
Tenryu: like I've seen an A+ 1x1, forgot his name, he maybe was like 67% A+ and he was like 50% B- 2x2. being good 1x1 helps but its a team effotrt u cant 1x2 every game no matter how good u are, u are bound to lose to newbs 2x2 that u would normally own in 1x1
Xeris: :D!
Dea: well most 1v1 players that try to 2v2 I think get caught up in playing macro-ish, they make too many workers which puts them behind in map control and army count
Tenryu: yup, they play heavy worker style so they play late game when 2x2 is early game
Dea: for instance I could play with 6-7 drones for 10 minutes producing lings non stop to get the edge
Tenryu: I just think people think 2v2 involves no skill, thats the answer I get most of the time or what i see; after I win a 2v2, "lets 1v1, see whos better"
Dea: haha
Xeris: :D!
Tenryu: If I wanted to 1v1 I'll play 1v1 games, not 2v2 games
Dea: to play 2v2 I think you need to know what to do in alot of circumstances that may arise during the game
Xeris: I dont know how much you follow the korean scene, but how do you feel about 2v2 being taken out of proleague ?
Tenryu: but dea is right too, its hard to get a good ally to constantly play with
Tenryu: I dont pay attention to the korean scene
Dea: well I think it kinda sucks cause its always nice to see what the koreans can do in their 2v2 matches some weird strats !. but I think lately all 2v2 matches were PZ v PZ so that was kinda boring. iron curtain was a good 2v2 map tho nice games played on that map
Xeris: yes it was! it was the coolest map ever
Xeris: what do you think could be done to help the 2v2 scene grow maybe ? or what would you like to see?
Dea: that match of nada + rock vs boxer + gorush i think, where nada won 1v2 after rock lost miserably
Tenryu: 2v2 scene grow.. hmm
Dea: more tournaments for sure
Tenryu: yeh
Dea: not just iccup tours
Tenryu: I like bwcl's idea of 2 2x2 games however, maybe if more tournaments added that in there more people would train 2v2 to get some wins rather then just throw 2 1x1 players and hope for the best, because it IS a different type of play
Xeris: so do you like that BWCL has 2 2v2s ?
Tenryu: yeh I do
Dea: it makes teams focus a bit more on 2v2 since thats 2 points per clanwar
Xeris: ok so if you had to name maybe top 3-4 2v2 teams who would you name?
Dea: well
Tenryu: Yan/Capigui is definitely #1 imo
Dea: I dont think anyone will argue that yan/capigui are #1
Tenryu: they hit A- with like 0 losses and A+ with 10, lol
Dea: if we exclude sparkyzjs and his hypergosu zerg ally :D
Tenryu: hmm #1 Yan/Capigui fuk, lol
Dea: existminizerg + iesan are very good too
Tenryu: its like same 10-15 people on top of charts on iccup every season
Dea: dark + energy also
Tenryu: dark + energy is good yeh
Dea: they played vs us some weird-ass TZ strats
Tenryu: dark has been allying dj recently but idk how good they are as a team
Dea: and if we were to mention old teams, I think dahli/pythonas, gohan/fabian, ljt/xiaozi... there are also alot of 2v2 players that ally anyone that own pretty hard
Tenryu: skyless has an awesome 2x2 zerg he pretty much allies any1 too tho. theres alot of ok players also but they talk alot of shit so I dont feel like mentioning them
Dea: haha
Tenryu: Ladder 2x2 has alot of cocky american players -_-
Dea: its like east but with ranks
Xeris: haha, ok let's see
Dea: alot of DOJing too
Xeris: what about the MB team you guys lost to ? like your only 2v2 loss ever :p
Dea: hah yea
Tenryu: for cw's yeah
Xeris: except when you lost vs NrT lol
Tenryu: cuz dea is dumb
Dea: nrt was like bo1 so that doesnt count keke :D
Tenryu: fo sho bo1 doesnt count -_-
Dea: well vs MB it was weird. i think they were heavily favored by the maps, for a PT team to have 2 maps with dual gas mains its imba
Tenryu: nah MB, Vampire + Hannibal - 2gas maps favor PT if they play right
Tenryu: when we re'd on a 1gas map it was such ez win -_-
Xeris: ok let's see what 2v2 team havent you played that you wish you could play ?
Tenryu: but they played those maps right, they played it good
Dea: yea, hmm
Tenryu: I wanna play ljt/xiaozi, I havent played them yet
Dea: probably mondie/testie if they were active as a team
Tenryu: yeh that would be fun. any considered the best I wanna play
Xeris: alright let's see
Tenryu: :-O like we played mass games vs cap/yan, those were fun losses -_-
Dea: LOL
Xeris: how many times on a weekly basis do you sex hap's mom?
Dea: losses by the dozen
Tenryu: oh man hmm
Dea: lol well she has helped us out in a lot of tough times
Tenryu: indeed
Dea: *hint* *hint* I think our new accounts
Xeris: any last words / shout out etc ?
Tenryu: HapsMom + HapsDad[LighT]
Dea: ya
Tenryu: wootage
Xeris: ^_^
Dea: are a tribute too her sexyness
Tenryu: last shout out huh
Xeris: last words ?!
Dea: STFU GTFO :D
Dea: well I think anyone can reach B- 2v2 if they have a decent ally but after that, gl hf
Tenryu: indeed, but more like STFU GTFO B cuz it requires more skill then u think -_-
Dea: shoutouts? hmm
Tenryu: TO MICHAEL JACKSON
Xeris: go for it !
Tenryu: MY LOVER
Dea: HAPS MOM
Tenryu: I MISS YOU
Dea: well shoutout to team light for being so pwnage
Tenryu: wow on ur knees much
Dea: :D
Xeris: loool, thanks for teh interview =D
Dea: i wanna shoutout too lindsey
Tenryu: cya~
Xeris: hap's sister? =D
Dea: NO U MORON LOL
Xeris: thanks guys. KEEP OWNING
Dea: thx oh and dont keep haps mom up too long tonight
Dea: PAVLO ISE KEFTES ^^ plz mention that too
Dea: Shoutout to the Greek community!
Click the spoiler tag to read the full interview!
Replay Pack
Click >>HERE<< to download the replay pack!! Enjoy! <3 2v2!
**PS : How do I embed the youtube videos? I want to post the vods!** Thanks~
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You are trying to advertise how fun 2v2 is but why do you link to two horrible vods? The narrator even said one of the players had no clue what he was doing. And the reason no one likes to 2v2, because It's just Z/P vs Z/P obviously.
Did you happen notice that there aren't any ZvP vs. ZvP reps in that pack.
On December 06 2008 08:55 NoobsOfWrath wrote: TZ is what the majority of the highest level teams use
actually, depending on the maps on proleague it always alternates between ZT and ZP. Except for that one time when Vampire was reused and when Iron Curtains was still in rotation.
EDIT:or was ZP slightly more popular on Iron Curtains and ZT slightly more popular when vampire had its second run? meh i don't remember
PZ is stronger than TZ on maps where toss can easily secure 2nd expo, like Andro for example. Considering the most common and effective build for terran vs PZ is MM for early game control. Late game PZ is very strong on those type of maps considering its so easy for protoss to mass and ofc high templars rate m/m. Terran would need vessels but then again its still not that easy :D
EPT
I was more used to ZP and ZZ teams
