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NoS-Craig
Australia3141 Posts
On May 26 2026 22:16 August9th1945 wrote: Great videos jinjin. I hope we get some anti-zerg maps next year. These maps seems pretty good for Terran. I know some Zergs have said match point being tough to play Protoss on to. | ||
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QRCode
United States57 Posts
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p4fn2w
393 Posts
On May 27 2026 04:02 jinjin5000 wrote: This is just me speculating, but his SCV micro seemed very poor so his wrists may not have been 100%, idk. He also swapped his original gameplan of going for a mech switch into timing mech, so might have been more evidence of wrist issue. FWIW Jumperer reviewed Flash's OSL finals against Effort, OSL finals against Jaedong, and a Flash Highlight video, and in all instances of small scale micro (probably ~10-15 instances), Flash microd poorly especially with bio & SCV control (even when he was focused on microing and not multitasking). Micro mistakes like marine positioning, no pulling back low hp marines, forgetting to stim, complete lack of medic and SCV walling, no stutter step, SCV forgetting to repair tanks even though it moved right next to it, etc. It looked exactly like what we saw in the ASL finals vs Soma. He then contrasted it with Nada and Boxer micro, and it was like night and day https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2779612971 (jump to 2:15:45 for the first micro scenario review and 2:55:19 for the last micro scenario review) If you agree with Jumperer's conclusions, then Flash's wrists likely influenced his BO selection, but probably not his micro... It seems like early game micro has always been Flash's kryptonite, even during his prime in Kespa days with healthier wrists. | ||
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HOLYBATS
Turkey790 Posts
Next season Soma's most dangerous rival should be SK. On May 27 2026 10:53 NoS-Craig wrote: These maps seems pretty good for Terran. I know some Zergs have said match point being tough to play Protoss on to. | ||
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Crimson)S(hadow
Philippines710 Posts
Effort (who beats flash): yeah, you need to play a 200 point game xD | ||
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hda
23 Posts
Thank goodness Sea retired so we don't have to listen to him yelling. Light's insight is barely enough to make up for all of Sea's madness and screaming for screaming's sake... Bisu's a close second in terms of loud blathering relative to useful information Light commenting on the second SCV scouting with a Rax FE build was so neat to hear! | ||
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Azzur
Australia6267 Posts
If it happened in game 1, I think it would've justifiable - save your energy to fight another day. But this was game 7, I don't understand why someone wouldn't stay on a do a fantasy gg timing. Imagine a World Cup Finals and Messi steps up to take a penalty in the last minute of stoppage time. Opposing goalkeeper whose legs hurt and can't dive properly, walks away and says that it's gg anyways. | ||
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CHEONSOYUN
598 Posts
On May 27 2026 14:33 Azzur wrote: I don't really care what the pros think on whether the game was lost or not. The fact that they can argue on this shows their poor competitive qualities and weak mindset. ? lol. the rest of your post is also lol. flash gg’d out like a normal player that was frustrated after getting cheesed out and making micro mistakes that cost him a trophy. too many fanboys on tl raging about this game. | ||
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Azzur
Australia6267 Posts
On May 27 2026 14:52 CHEONSOYUN wrote: ? lol. the rest of your post is also lol. flash gg’d out like a normal player that was frustrated after getting cheesed out and making micro mistakes that cost him a trophy. too many fanboys on tl raging about this game. Why don't you address the post rather than just lol. flash gg’d out like a normal player that was frustrated after getting cheesed out My response to this is that since it's a do-or-die game 7, it is weak mindset. And for those people who think it's fine has also a weak mindset. | ||
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CHEONSOYUN
598 Posts
On May 27 2026 14:54 Azzur wrote: Why don't you address the post rather than just lol. My response to this is that since it's a do-or-die game 7, it is weak mindset. And for those people who think it's fine has also a weak mindset. lol means i think you’re ridiculous “weak mindset” = i watch sc2 and don’t like something bw players said/did | ||
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Azzur
Australia6267 Posts
“weak mindset” = i watch sc2 and don’t like something bw players said/did What does SC2 have to do with this? If the same thing happens in SC2, I would call them out as well. Same thing with any other sport. Describe to me a situation where this is considered not a weak mindset. | ||
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CHEONSOYUN
598 Posts
On May 27 2026 15:01 Azzur wrote: What does SC2 have to do with this? If the same thing happens in SC2, I would call them out as well. Same thing with any other sport. Describe to me a situation where this is considered not a weak mindset. a weak mindset is ignorance and you clearly have it trashing pro bw players giving commentary on a pro game + whining about flash gging out after he was completely dead. i think your posting shows a weak mindset fwiw i actually hated how flash prepared and played this series but your post is just 100% ignorance. i admire the flash fanboys raging about his decision not to lift to natural and abandon main instantly more than your post. | ||
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fLyiNgDroNe
Belgium4100 Posts
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Azzur
Australia6267 Posts
On May 27 2026 15:04 CHEONSOYUN wrote: a weak mindset is ignorance and you clearly have it trashing pro bw players giving commentary on a pro game + whining about flash gging out after he was completely dead. i think your posting shows a weak mindset But what I posted is true? I struggle to think of a scenario in any sport where commentators won't criticise players for giving up too early. So imagine this: - In the World Cup Finals, Messi steps up to take a penalty kick in stoppage time. - Goalkeeper who has a leg injury steps aside and says it's gg. Just score into an empty net. - Commentator and past pros says this is all good, Messi will score anyways. So answer this, what would the public reaction be? | ||
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CHEONSOYUN
598 Posts
On May 27 2026 15:12 Azzur wrote: But what I posted is true? I struggle to think of a scenario in any sport where commentators won't criticise players for giving up too early. So imagine this: - In the World Cup Finals, Messi steps up to take a penalty kick in stoppage time. - Goalkeeper who has a leg injury steps aside and says it's gg. Just score into an empty net. - Commentator and past pros says this is all good, Messi will score anyways. So answer this, what would the public reaction be? A: it’s a 1v1 game not a team sport B: it’s flash maybe you have heard of him. if he had an actual chance he would have stayed in the game C: he was completely dead at the end of the game. most of the debate from people who are more informed than you is about not playing better earlier. everyone agrees by the time he gg’d he had 0 hope left vs soma D: you think it’s true but you’re extremely ignorant thinking you know better than the actual pros calling them weak minded. that’s you. E: since you like bad hypotheticals it’s considered poor taste to make the opponent play out an actual complete checkmate when they’ve been put into an unwinnable gamestate. | ||
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Mumei
United States269 Posts
On May 27 2026 15:01 Azzur wrote: What does SC2 have to do with this? If the same thing happens in SC2, I would call them out as well. Same thing with any other sport. Describe to me a situation where this is considered not a weak mindset. You watch StarCraft, so you must know that giving up—saying gg—when you know you've lost is a part of the etiquette of the game, right? So, I don't see why you're taking this stance that he should have stayed in and fought on. Why would he? He knew he had lost. That's when you ought to gg. On May 27 2026 15:12 Azzur wrote: But what I posted is true? I struggle to think of a scenario in any sport where commentators won't criticise players for giving up too early. So imagine this: - In the World Cup Finals, Messi steps up to take a penalty kick in stoppage time. - Goalkeeper who has a leg injury steps aside and says it's gg. Just score into an empty net. - Commentator and past pros says this is all good, Messi will score anyways. So answer this, what would the public reaction be? What about a strategy game like chess or go? It is routine to resign if you have a sufficiently losing position in either of those games. It's a mark of respect for your opponent to not waste their time and yours playing out a position that you don't have a chance of winning. Insisting on playing out a lost position in those games isn't a mark of being tough or having fighting spirit; it's a sign of either disrespect or an inability to evaluate the game. I think StarCraft's ethos comes a lot more from that kind of game than it comes from the team sports example you're giving. | ||
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Azzur
Australia6267 Posts
On May 27 2026 15:21 CHEONSOYUN wrote: A: it’s a 1v1 game not a team sport B: it’s flash maybe you have heard of him. if he had an actual chance he would have stayed in the game C: he was completely dead at the end of the game. most of the debate from people who are more informed than you is about not playing better earlier. everyone agrees by the time he gg’d he had 0 hope left vs soma D: you think it’s true but you’re extremely ignorant thinking you know better than the actual pros calling them weak minded. that’s you. E: since you like bad hypotheticals it’s considered poor taste to make the opponent play out an actual complete checkmate when they’ve been put into an unwinnable gamestate. A. It doesn't matter whether it's 1v1 or team sport. Same principle applies - don't give up too early. If we want to talk about 1v1 sport, lets take the case of tennis - I've seen players criticised for tanking games, and deservedly so. B. Who cares - history is littered with great players from all sports giving up too early. And they've been criticised for it. So why does flash get an exception? C. Flash wouldn't have been criticised if it was game1. But this is a do-or-die game7. And 0 hope is obviously incorrect as we've seen great comebacks before. D. I'm calling them out for saying it's all good. They can explain that flash was losing but to say that it's all good to gg early is weak mindset. E. This is binary thinking - there is a sliding scale between early gg to good gg timing and checkmate (buildings all destroyed). The fact that people are talking about it means it's definitely early gg. Which is not understandable for a game7. | ||
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Azzur
Australia6267 Posts
On May 27 2026 15:22 Mumei wrote: You watch StarCraft, so you must know that giving up—saying gg—when you know you've lost is a part of the etiquette of the game, right? So, I don't see why you're taking this stance that he should have stayed in and fought on. Why would he? He knew he had lost. That's when you ought to gg. What about a strategy game like chess or go? It is routine to resign if you have a sufficiently losing position in either of those games. It's a mark of respect for your opponent to not waste their time and yours playing out a position that you don't have a chance of winning. Insisting on playing out a lost position in those games isn't a mark of being tough or having fighting spirit; it's a sign of either disrespect or an inability to evaluate the game. I think StarCraft's ethos comes a lot more from that kind of game than it comes from the team sports example you're giving. I'm not criticising flash for not fighting till the last building is eliminated (i.e. checkmate). I'm criticising him for giving up too early in a do-or-die game. In chess, there are players who have resigned too early, and they are similarly criticised for it. I follow chess and I cannot think of an example of player giving up early on a critical do-or-die game. And if they did, I can imagine the outcry. Again to iterate, there is a difference between resigning early in game 1 (to conserve strength) vs game 7 (do-or-die). Why does flash get this exemption from criticism? | ||
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Puosu
7021 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + floated it to the farmost corner of the map + Show Spoiler + | ||
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Uldridge
Belgium5175 Posts
On May 27 2026 15:51 Azzur wrote: I'm not criticising flash for not fighting till the last building is eliminated (i.e. checkmate). I'm criticising him for giving up too early in a do-or-die game. In chess, there are players who have resigned too early, and they are similarly criticised for it. I follow chess and I cannot think of an example of player giving up early on a critical do-or-die game. And if they did, I can imagine the outcry. Again to iterate, there is a difference between resigning early in game 1 (to conserve strength) vs game 7 (do-or-die). Why does flash get this exemption from criticism? Flash has no gas. He has 1 barracks. Soma almost has enough gas for lair and can drone. Soma has speedlings. Rush distance is LONG. There's nothing Flash could've done after these attacks to stabilize. Either Soma floods him or outtechs him. Flash's initial mistakes (not transferring scvs, stabilizing his nat, blocking it off to prevent future runbys, getting his gas, losing his marines) caused him to be in an inwinnable situation. He got flustered and distracted by the lings/drones in his main and focused too hard on getting rid of them probably, but that's called being human. Speed lings in the main are a nightmare for any pro to deal with so that's what he focused on. And then more poured in... Maybe making a tight wall between his main and nat would've been an intetesting choice (if that's possible), but who knows.. pushing the limits of hypotheticals is such a stretch for pro's to consider in the moment, you can only expect so much from them. Now, please stop with this argument because you're literally the n-th person bringing up the same issue again and it's getting very tiring. | ||
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