On May 19 2026 15:56 rotta wrote: I just want to see the rarely/never used units and spells buffed somehow
Devourers are absolute shit, countered by scourge, BCs (yamato LUL), and only really useful on island maps, which Zerg often loses even getting a third gas via bug.
That's why even with three gas on Sparkle, Zerg doesn't actually instant win. If that was a feature on a ground map, Zerg would ez clap Terrans
The game is balanced around being a ground map because Zerg air sucks too much in Brood War
If devourers had a bazillion HP it would solve a lot on island maps. They cost 250/150! A 150/100 corsair has a combined total of 180 and a speed of 6.67 and are not affected by stuff like irradiate
i saw soO or someone in k-league use devourers vs SK terran+BC late game, so smart for countering BCs because they cost very little gas, and Z late game is generally mineral rich but gas starved
On May 19 2026 17:00 Crimson)S(hadow wrote: i saw soO or someone in k-league use devourers vs SK terran+BC late game, so smart for countering BCs because they cost very little gas, and Z late game is generally mineral rich but gas starved
Only 50 gas per devourer, way cheaper than making 8-10 scourges per BC to kill them. which often doesn't even work... I wonder how many devourers to kill 2 bc's are needed
I am always wondering if there would be a way to "unlock" the whole Ghosts portion of Terran without necessarily making them stronger in the process. But it's not just a unit that is useless but it comes with multiple buildings (attachment), mechanics (nukes) and several upgrades which are all useless (read: not cost-effective or attention-economy-effective). It's just too obvious that all of this was designed for single player missions where you pilot a single Ghost. And, sure, once in a blue moon someone does something cool with Ghosts, but the fact that this stands out so much and everyone remembers it just underscores how useless they are so that anyone making use of them instantly stands out. But to be fair, I fail to see a version of the Ghost that does not make Terran stronger, so probably not possible.
But I like to dream up a world in which Ghosts are a viable or even core late game component in both TvZ and TvP. So here are some ideas for changes that I do not consider "balance" but just wild ideas:
- Merge Wraith and Ghost cloak into a single upgrade (you can research it at any one of the addon buildings) [so you can already have this once we get to the late game] - Increase the effect of damage & armor upgrades on Ghosts to +3 damage +2 armor [relevant for..] - The Ghosts vision upgrade allows them to hit units under dark swarm [..killing lurkers under dark swarm] - Lockdown works on all flying units (instead of all mechanical) - Medic's Restauration spell is changed from single unit to small AOE, cost is increased [so there is at least a theoretical counter to red or green goo, but it's costly and micro intense]
- Scout supply reduced to 2, costs reduced to 200/100 - Scout ground attack damage increased from 8 to 12 and ground cooldown reduced from 1.26 to 0.92 (same as air) [so two scouts can two shot a drone/probe] - Scout ground & air attack upgrade scaling increased to +3 per upgrade - Scout movement speed upgrade cost reduced to 100/100 and time reduced from 105 to 80 - Scout vision upgrade now grants them detection but only right under them (very small area), cost is up to 200/200 [so you can kill burrowed units or even DTs or Wraith if you micro well]
- Devourer .. I have no idea.. anyone?
[Edit, probably a good idea to explain the rationale of those changes. Also, changing up things (in a sensible way) is a good thing for any game, League is a good example]
On May 19 2026 17:00 Crimson)S(hadow wrote: i saw soO or someone in k-league use devourers vs SK terran+BC late game, so smart for countering BCs because they cost very little gas, and Z late game is generally mineral rich but gas starved
Only 50 gas per devourer, way cheaper than making 8-10 scourges per BC to kill them. which often doesn't even work... I wonder how many devourers to kill 2 bc's are needed
just tested, assuming 0/0 upgs for both, 3 devourers is not enough for 2 BCs, but 4 devourers beats 2 BCs very comfortably
On May 19 2026 15:56 rotta wrote: I just want to see the rarely/never used units and spells buffed somehow
Devourers are absolute shit, countered by scourge, BCs (yamato LUL), and only really useful on island maps, which Zerg often loses even getting a third gas via bug.
That's why even with three gas on Sparkle, Zerg doesn't actually instant win. If that was a feature on a ground map, Zerg would ez clap Terrans
The game is balanced around being a ground map because Zerg air sucks too much in Brood War
If devourers had a bazillion HP it would solve a lot on island maps. They cost 250/150! A 150/100 corsair has a combined total of 180 and a speed of 6.67 and are not affected by stuff like irradiate
Change it so irridate is affected by armour on biological units, this way devourer does not die in one irridate cast.Alternatively increase Devourer HP by 10.
Otherwise i would be looking at improving protoss against hydra bust, probably just decrease cost of cannon to 125, increase speed of HT warp and decrease storm research cost to 150/150.Everyone agrees PvZ is imbalanced at highest levels, but better to start with very minor changes and see how it affects it, seen so many games where a tiny handful of seconds against a hydra bust would continue the game.
I can't do yet another patch discussion, but... the comsat as an addon sucks ass. That said and keeping balance whine as of last 3-4 years in mind, maybe Terran deserves that added inconvenience for being the statiscally better race.
The in game timer was both the best and worst feature to be added ever. Real old graphics are still superior to the redumbed one. I miss playing 1.16.1
Scout is expensive as fuck and could use a tiny tiny upgrade, but the reality is that Protoss doesn't need that, in the same way ghost and devourer don't need a buff.
On May 18 2026 21:23 Maks wrote: Exactly 25 years ago today, on May 18, 2001, the final balance patch for StarCraft: Brood War — Patch 1.08 — was released. To this day, it remains the definitive ruleset the game is still played on.
Some of the key changes introduced in Patch 1.08:
* Dragoon build time increased from 40 to 50 seconds. * Psi Storm damage reduced from 128 to 112. Before this change, a single Storm could instantly kill a Lurker. * Supply cost for Battlecruisers and Carriers reduced from 8 to 6, while the Ultralisk's supply cost was reduced from 6 to 4. * Missile Turret cost reduced from 100 to 75 minerals. * Spawning Pool cost increased from 150 to 200 minerals to nerf 4-Pool and 5-Pool builds.
Overall, the patch significantly buffed Terran while heavily nerfing Protoss. And now, a quarter of a century later, we're still living with the consequences.
When Patch 1.08 was released, modern standard maps didn’t exist yet, the meta was completely different, and many mechanics and tricks (such as muta stacking or stacking burrowed Lurkers) had not yet been discovered.
The patch itself wasn’t a mistake — the real mistake was that no further balance patches were ever released afterward.
iirc, there was a balance patch later on, which gave Zealots 100hp/60 shield from 80hp/80 shield to make them able to survive 2 Spider Mines (they take 3 Spider Mines to kill with 100/60)
On May 19 2026 15:56 rotta wrote: I just want to see the rarely/never used units and spells buffed somehow
Devourers are absolute shit, countered by scourge, BCs (yamato LUL), and only really useful on island maps, which Zerg often loses even getting a third gas via bug.
That's why even with three gas on Sparkle, Zerg doesn't actually instant win. If that was a feature on a ground map, Zerg would ez clap Terrans
The game is balanced around being a ground map because Zerg air sucks too much in Brood War
If devourers had a bazillion HP it would solve a lot on island maps. They cost 250/150! A 150/100 corsair has a combined total of 180 and a speed of 6.67 and are not affected by stuff like irradiate
Change it so irridate is affected by armour on biological units, this way devourer does not die in one irridate cast.Alternatively increase Devourer HP by 10.
Otherwise i would be looking at improving protoss against hydra bust, probably just decrease cost of cannon to 125, increase speed of HT warp and decrease storm research cost to 150/150.Everyone agrees PvZ is imbalanced at highest levels, but better to start with very minor changes and see how it affects it, seen so many games where a tiny handful of seconds against a hydra bust would continue the game.
If Irradiate gets reduced by armor then Ultralisks will take 0 damage because Irradiate does 3 damage each tick.
On May 19 2026 15:56 rotta wrote: I just want to see the rarely/never used units and spells buffed somehow
Devourers are absolute shit, countered by scourge, BCs (yamato LUL), and only really useful on island maps, which Zerg often loses even getting a third gas via bug.
That's why even with three gas on Sparkle, Zerg doesn't actually instant win. If that was a feature on a ground map, Zerg would ez clap Terrans
The game is balanced around being a ground map because Zerg air sucks too much in Brood War
If devourers had a bazillion HP it would solve a lot on island maps. They cost 250/150! A 150/100 corsair has a combined total of 180 and a speed of 6.67 and are not affected by stuff like irradiate
Change it so irridate is affected by armour on biological units, this way devourer does not die in one irridate cast.Alternatively increase Devourer HP by 10.
Otherwise i would be looking at improving protoss against hydra bust, probably just decrease cost of cannon to 125, increase speed of HT warp and decrease storm research cost to 150/150.Everyone agrees PvZ is imbalanced at highest levels, but better to start with very minor changes and see how it affects it, seen so many games where a tiny handful of seconds against a hydra bust would continue the game.
If Irradiate gets reduced by armor then Ultralisks will take 0 damage because Irradiate does 3 damage each tick.
Irradiated ultras taking 0 damage running into bio balls and just decimating marines would be funny, until the marines also have 3 armor and irradiate just does nothing now.
Its so cool that the game itself has remained rather unchanged, but the way it is played at the highest (and therefore lower) levels continues to evolve so much.
Just a few years ago TvZ was viewed as highly problematic due to the (re)development of "crazy zerg". That strategy seems rather marginal now because of further TvZ evolution (and maps? Idk.), but if the game received balance patches, I bet crazy zerg would have been "fixed" through nerfs/buffs instead.
973 likewise seemed to break PvZ, and in combination with other zerg threats remains very problematic to this day. Its exciting to see whether 973 or its variants will remain as relevant in, say, 5 years from now.
For decades, PvT used to branch into either arbiter or carrier endgame. Now we've got the shuttle+storm style.
There's also the recent TvZ games with vulture+valkyrie. No idea whether that'll last, but it certainly is distinct from the TvZ's we saw 5, 10, or 25 years ago.
Regarding the ZvP early balance. The way I see it, the issue is that there is no real meaningful trade off/risk for the Zerg to do early all ins. If its successful Protoss dies, if its not its close to 50/50 game and all the wins that comes from there are the ones that skew the balance. So I would like to go with smth small that brings risk for the Zerg to do them. For example the overlords should not have detection if there is no lair. They get the detection ability automatically with the lair, but not before, so going lings or hydra rushes can be countered by fast darks, however if the protoss risks fast darks it still leaves them vulnarable to fast mutas, so nothing big changes, but we introduce some kind of risk for the Zerg to go lair-less
I continue to think BW should make mirror match only changes that can't affect 1v1 balance in non-mirror matchups (it would affect other formats, but I think that's worth the overall benefits).
This would also make mirrors fresher and exciting in a differentiated way compared to the non-mirror matchups, as they would be a chance to see new stuff in the game, similar to how we look forward to funky new maps.
Something that can only counter Mutas in ZvZ is the obvious example, whether it's Spore Colony modifications, or even crazier stuff like other Zerg buildings also being able to attack organic air units.
But it could be fun to see Protoss abilities that only affect shields (thus restricting the impact to PvP).
Firebats doing massive bonus damage against Terran mech (by setting them on fire or something) is a funny one I'd love to see. I think Firebats would still be bad against mech because they'd be outranged, but it would be funny to see Firebats dropped onto mech, or a YOLO stim run where as long as some Firebats make it to the Vultures or Tanks they do massive damage.
Things could also just be hardcoded into the game. I always liked concepts like "Terran can only have at most one living Factory in TvT".
it would be fun if ghosts and scouts were better. Ghost gun is lame. the dude is supposed to be some special operations fighter but he fights worse than a convict on steroids. Also Ghost has psi powers (or is it only kerrigan in the lore? don't remember) but has no ability nor fighting mechanic to make use of them.
Can there be fun balance patch events thanks to shield battery?
On May 19 2026 03:24 iFU.pauline wrote: They can keep their storm at 128 damage for as long as I have my pool back at 150 mineral, it would end decades of abuse.
On May 18 2026 21:23 Maks wrote: Overall, the patch significantly buffed Terran while heavily nerfing Protoss. And now, a quarter of a century later, we're still living with the consequences.
When Patch 1.08 was released, modern standard maps didn’t exist yet, the meta was completely different, and many mechanics and tricks (such as muta stacking or stacking burrowed Lurkers) had not yet been discovered.
The patch itself wasn’t a mistake — the real mistake was that no further balance patches were ever released afterward.
25 years of good games. this is just literal pointless balance whine.
I don't have the impression people are whining here. I don't even play Broodwar, I just watch people play. If there is stuff in a game that people rarely or never use, those items could or should be changed so they can be used. Ideally without skewing balance. And I think all games and scenes benefit from changes from time to time.
EPT
