Exactly 25 years ago today, on May 18, 2001, the final balance patch for StarCraft: Brood War — Patch 1.08 — was released. To this day, it remains the definitive ruleset the game is still played on.
Some of the key changes introduced in Patch 1.08:
* Dragoon build time increased from 40 to 50 seconds. * Psi Storm damage reduced from 128 to 112. Before this change, a single Storm could instantly kill a Lurker. * Supply cost for Battlecruisers and Carriers reduced from 8 to 6, while the Ultralisk's supply cost was reduced from 6 to 4. * Missile Turret cost reduced from 100 to 75 minerals. * Spawning Pool cost increased from 150 to 200 minerals to nerf 4-Pool and 5-Pool builds.
Overall, the patch significantly buffed Terran while heavily nerfing Protoss. And now, a quarter of a century later, we're still living with the consequences.
When Patch 1.08 was released, modern standard maps didn’t exist yet, the meta was completely different, and many mechanics and tricks (such as muta stacking or stacking burrowed Lurkers) had not yet been discovered.
The patch itself wasn’t a mistake — the real mistake was that no further balance patches were ever released afterward.
On May 18 2026 21:34 Ryzel wrote: Okay, what changes would you recommend for a hypothetical new balance patch?
Are bug fixes considered balance patching in BW? In that case i'd suggest they fix the issue where ranged units occasionally freeze in place when you move and attack
* Psi Storm damage reduced from 128 to 112. Before this change, a single Storm could instantly kill a Lurker. * Missile Turret cost reduced from 100 to 75 minerals.
Keep the old cost would be really balance more so much.
Psi Storm is high risk high reward. Less Turret more Marine.
Zealot 100 mineral > 75 mineral Arbiter Recall 150 energy > 100 energy Reaver 15 mineral > 0 mineral Dark Archon Maelstrom 100 energy > 10 energy
Remove Forge, upgrade acttack and armor for all units is only from Cybernetics Core Photon Cannon build time 38 seconds > 15 seconds Nexus 400 mineral > 500 mineral
Terran
Vulture 3 Spider Mines > 1 Spider Mine Tank remove Siege Mode, range and dmg is always in Siege Mode Wraith Cloak all time
On May 18 2026 21:34 Ryzel wrote: Okay, what changes would you recommend for a hypothetical new balance patch?
I probably wouldn’t change the balance now. That should have happened much earlier — around 2005–2007 — once it became clear that there were structural issues with ZvP and TvZ.
That said, if Blizzard suddenly decided to make balance changes today, I wouldn’t be opposed to it either.
What I’d rather see instead is moving away from standard Fighting Spirit-style maps that reinforce or even exaggerate the current status quo. Instead of having 5 or 6 maps like that in a 7-map pool, there should maybe be only one.
The rest of the map pool should consist of maps more like Roaring Currents, Death Valley, Troy SE, Plasma, Inner Coven, Sparkle, Gold Rush and similar experimental or asymmetric maps.
And only if that approach failed would I seriously return to the idea of balance patches.
On May 18 2026 21:56 SCRVN wrote: I think we need a new patch:
Protoss
Zealot 100 mineral > 75 mineral Arbiter Recall 150 energy > 100 energy Reaver 15 mineral > 0 mineral Dark Archon Maelstrom 100 energy > 10 energy
Remove Forge, upgrade acttack and armor for all units is only from Cybernetics Core Photon Cannon build time 38 seconds > 15 seconds Nexus 400 mineral > 500 mineral
Why don't you just remove zerg entirely at this point lmao
One thing that I see every time this discussion comes up is that people suggest changes that are so big that they would make the game instantly unplayable at the highest level.
It's true that on most maps that are actually used on the ladder / ASL, protoss is unfavoured against Zerg. But doing things like reducing Zealot cost from 100 to 75 would swing it very far in the opposite direction. Imagine a two-gate opener - right now it puts Zerg under a lot of pressure, but it Zerg defends correctly, they can have an advantage, because of how much the Protoss build was slowed down. Now, at the reduced cost, by the time you've made 6 Zealots, you've saved up enough minerals for a "free" forge. In essence, 2-gate in main would become much less risky for Protoss. Also, keep in mind that this stays for the whole game.
The interesting thing about BW is that instead of directly balance patching the base game, balance decisions are generally made through the map pool (take a look at this most recent ASL regarding the insanely Terran-favored maps). Certain map features tend to tilt in favor of certain races in match-ups, for instance things like ability to wall at natural choke points or having buildable terrain in the middle of the map or behind minerals, etc. This approach seems to have worked well enough through the intervening 25 years.
Unrelatedly, Maelstrom being 10 energy would be a complete joke rofl
what about an evolution chamber upgrade that gave spore colonies explosive splash damage to add some variety to ZvZ? it would be explosive so it mostly impacts mutalisks and scourge without hard countering corsairs in PvZ, but even at 50% splash damage that might be too good against sairs...but maybe if you made it expensive it could work. it's never going to happen, but it can be fun to think about.
On May 19 2026 11:56 StaticNine wrote: what about an evolution chamber upgrade that gave spore colonies explosive splash damage to add some variety to ZvZ? it would be explosive so it mostly impacts mutalisks and scourge without hard countering corsairs in PvZ, but even at 50% splash damage that might be too good against sairs...but maybe if you made it expensive it could work. it's never going to happen, but it can be fun to think about.
Just make it work Vs bio units only, like irradiate.
StarCraft will be better if it has 3 Terran, 3 Protoss, and 3 Zerg.
TerranZ in TvZ: Turret 50 Mineral, Vulture 5 Mines TerranT in TvT: Remove Tank TerranP in TvP: Vulture 1 Mine, Remove Siege Tank mode but all nomal Tanks get range and dmg like Siege Tank
ProtossZ in PvZ: Zealot 75 Mineral, Stormru one hit Lurker, Maelstrom 10 energy, Photon Cannon build time 15 seconds ProtossT in PvT: Recall 250 Energy, Nexus 500 Mineral, Zealot 125 Mineral ProtossP in PvP: Remove Reaver
ZergZ in ZvZ: Remove Lings ZergT in ZvT: Pool 300 Mineral, Ultralisk 20 Supply, Dark Swarm: Duration 3 seconds ZergP in ZvP: Remove Hydralisk, Ultralisk 1 Supply, Dark Swarm: Duration 200 seconds
On May 18 2026 21:23 Maks wrote: Overall, the patch significantly buffed Terran while heavily nerfing Protoss. And now, a quarter of a century later, we're still living with the consequences.
When Patch 1.08 was released, modern standard maps didn’t exist yet, the meta was completely different, and many mechanics and tricks (such as muta stacking or stacking burrowed Lurkers) had not yet been discovered.
The patch itself wasn’t a mistake — the real mistake was that no further balance patches were ever released afterward.
25 years of good games. this is just literal pointless balance whine.
players had to spend 25 years exploring playing and fully utilizing concepts. and without progaming and esports with millions of US dollars at stake we would have never known the answers.
bw has become one of the most greatest games ever because there was no patch. the players and the mapmakers took a beautifully designed game from blizzard and made it an extremely deep game that is still entertaining and fresh.
also consider that remastered was its own balance patch:
valkyries became more stable/usable protoss could remap probe and pylon off ‘p’ mutalisks benefitted heavily from TR-24 mapmakers received new tools / quality of life changes. the map pool before and after remastered is night and day with new concepts like butter and refined standard maps
the quality of life changes as well it was as perfect as could be helping give SC1 new life. compare with warcraft 3 remaster
On May 19 2026 15:56 rotta wrote: I just want to see the rarely/never used units and spells buffed somehow
Devourers are absolute shit, countered by scourge, BCs (yamato LUL), and only really useful on island maps, which Zerg often loses even getting a third gas via bug.
That's why even with three gas on Sparkle, Zerg doesn't actually instant win. If that was a feature on a ground map, Zerg would ez clap Terrans
The game is balanced around being a ground map because Zerg air sucks too much in Brood War
If devourers had a bazillion HP it would solve a lot on island maps. They cost 250/150! A 150/100 corsair has a combined total of 180 and a speed of 6.67 and are not affected by stuff like irradiate
i saw soO or someone in k-league use devourers vs SK terran+BC late game, so smart for countering BCs because they cost very little gas, and Z late game is generally mineral rich but gas starved
On May 19 2026 17:00 Crimson)S(hadow wrote: i saw soO or someone in k-league use devourers vs SK terran+BC late game, so smart for countering BCs because they cost very little gas, and Z late game is generally mineral rich but gas starved
Only 50 gas per devourer, way cheaper than making 8-10 scourges per BC to kill them. which often doesn't even work... I wonder how many devourers to kill 2 bc's are needed
I am always wondering if there would be a way to "unlock" the whole Ghosts portion of Terran without necessarily making them stronger in the process. But it's not just a unit that is useless but it comes with multiple buildings (attachment), mechanics (nukes) and several upgrades which are all useless (read: not cost-effective or attention-economy-effective). It's just too obvious that all of this was designed for single player missions where you pilot a single Ghost. And, sure, once in a blue moon someone does something cool with Ghosts, but the fact that this stands out so much and everyone remembers it just underscores how useless they are so that anyone making use of them instantly stands out. But to be fair, I fail to see a version of the Ghost that does not make Terran stronger, so probably not possible.
But I like to dream up a world in which Ghosts are a viable or even core late game component in both TvZ and TvP. So here are some ideas for changes that I do not consider "balance" but just wild ideas:
- Merge Wraith and Ghost cloak into a single upgrade (you can research it at any one of the addon buildings) [so you can already have this once we get to the late game] - Increase the effect of damage & armor upgrades on Ghosts to +3 damage +2 armor [relevant for..] - The Ghosts vision upgrade allows them to hit units under dark swarm [..killing lurkers under dark swarm] - Lockdown works on all flying units (instead of all mechanical) - Medic's Restauration spell is changed from single unit to small AOE, cost is increased [so there is at least a theoretical counter to red or green goo, but it's costly and micro intense]
- Scout supply reduced to 2, costs reduced to 200/100 - Scout ground attack damage increased from 8 to 12 and ground cooldown reduced from 1.26 to 0.92 (same as air) [so two scouts can two shot a drone/probe] - Scout ground & air attack upgrade scaling increased to +3 per upgrade - Scout movement speed upgrade cost reduced to 100/100 and time reduced from 105 to 80 - Scout vision upgrade now grants them detection but only right under them (very small area), cost is up to 200/200 [so you can kill burrowed units or even DTs or Wraith if you micro well]
- Devourer .. I have no idea.. anyone?
[Edit, probably a good idea to explain the rationale of those changes. Also, changing up things (in a sensible way) is a good thing for any game, League is a good example]
On May 19 2026 17:00 Crimson)S(hadow wrote: i saw soO or someone in k-league use devourers vs SK terran+BC late game, so smart for countering BCs because they cost very little gas, and Z late game is generally mineral rich but gas starved
Only 50 gas per devourer, way cheaper than making 8-10 scourges per BC to kill them. which often doesn't even work... I wonder how many devourers to kill 2 bc's are needed
just tested, assuming 0/0 upgs for both, 3 devourers is not enough for 2 BCs, but 4 devourers beats 2 BCs very comfortably
On May 19 2026 15:56 rotta wrote: I just want to see the rarely/never used units and spells buffed somehow
Devourers are absolute shit, countered by scourge, BCs (yamato LUL), and only really useful on island maps, which Zerg often loses even getting a third gas via bug.
That's why even with three gas on Sparkle, Zerg doesn't actually instant win. If that was a feature on a ground map, Zerg would ez clap Terrans
The game is balanced around being a ground map because Zerg air sucks too much in Brood War
If devourers had a bazillion HP it would solve a lot on island maps. They cost 250/150! A 150/100 corsair has a combined total of 180 and a speed of 6.67 and are not affected by stuff like irradiate
Change it so irridate is affected by armour on biological units, this way devourer does not die in one irridate cast.Alternatively increase Devourer HP by 10.
Otherwise i would be looking at improving protoss against hydra bust, probably just decrease cost of cannon to 125, increase speed of HT warp and decrease storm research cost to 150/150.Everyone agrees PvZ is imbalanced at highest levels, but better to start with very minor changes and see how it affects it, seen so many games where a tiny handful of seconds against a hydra bust would continue the game.
I can't do yet another patch discussion, but... the comsat as an addon sucks ass. That said and keeping balance whine as of last 3-4 years in mind, maybe Terran deserves that added inconvenience for being the statiscally better race.
The in game timer was both the best and worst feature to be added ever. Real old graphics are still superior to the redumbed one. I miss playing 1.16.1
Scout is expensive as fuck and could use a tiny tiny upgrade, but the reality is that Protoss doesn't need that, in the same way ghost and devourer don't need a buff.
On May 18 2026 21:23 Maks wrote: Exactly 25 years ago today, on May 18, 2001, the final balance patch for StarCraft: Brood War — Patch 1.08 — was released. To this day, it remains the definitive ruleset the game is still played on.
Some of the key changes introduced in Patch 1.08:
* Dragoon build time increased from 40 to 50 seconds. * Psi Storm damage reduced from 128 to 112. Before this change, a single Storm could instantly kill a Lurker. * Supply cost for Battlecruisers and Carriers reduced from 8 to 6, while the Ultralisk's supply cost was reduced from 6 to 4. * Missile Turret cost reduced from 100 to 75 minerals. * Spawning Pool cost increased from 150 to 200 minerals to nerf 4-Pool and 5-Pool builds.
Overall, the patch significantly buffed Terran while heavily nerfing Protoss. And now, a quarter of a century later, we're still living with the consequences.
When Patch 1.08 was released, modern standard maps didn’t exist yet, the meta was completely different, and many mechanics and tricks (such as muta stacking or stacking burrowed Lurkers) had not yet been discovered.
The patch itself wasn’t a mistake — the real mistake was that no further balance patches were ever released afterward.
iirc, there was a balance patch later on, which gave Zealots 100hp/60 shield from 80hp/80 shield to make them able to survive 2 Spider Mines (they take 3 Spider Mines to kill with 100/60)
On May 19 2026 15:56 rotta wrote: I just want to see the rarely/never used units and spells buffed somehow
Devourers are absolute shit, countered by scourge, BCs (yamato LUL), and only really useful on island maps, which Zerg often loses even getting a third gas via bug.
That's why even with three gas on Sparkle, Zerg doesn't actually instant win. If that was a feature on a ground map, Zerg would ez clap Terrans
The game is balanced around being a ground map because Zerg air sucks too much in Brood War
If devourers had a bazillion HP it would solve a lot on island maps. They cost 250/150! A 150/100 corsair has a combined total of 180 and a speed of 6.67 and are not affected by stuff like irradiate
Change it so irridate is affected by armour on biological units, this way devourer does not die in one irridate cast.Alternatively increase Devourer HP by 10.
Otherwise i would be looking at improving protoss against hydra bust, probably just decrease cost of cannon to 125, increase speed of HT warp and decrease storm research cost to 150/150.Everyone agrees PvZ is imbalanced at highest levels, but better to start with very minor changes and see how it affects it, seen so many games where a tiny handful of seconds against a hydra bust would continue the game.
If Irradiate gets reduced by armor then Ultralisks will take 0 damage because Irradiate does 3 damage each tick.
On May 19 2026 15:56 rotta wrote: I just want to see the rarely/never used units and spells buffed somehow
Devourers are absolute shit, countered by scourge, BCs (yamato LUL), and only really useful on island maps, which Zerg often loses even getting a third gas via bug.
That's why even with three gas on Sparkle, Zerg doesn't actually instant win. If that was a feature on a ground map, Zerg would ez clap Terrans
The game is balanced around being a ground map because Zerg air sucks too much in Brood War
If devourers had a bazillion HP it would solve a lot on island maps. They cost 250/150! A 150/100 corsair has a combined total of 180 and a speed of 6.67 and are not affected by stuff like irradiate
Change it so irridate is affected by armour on biological units, this way devourer does not die in one irridate cast.Alternatively increase Devourer HP by 10.
Otherwise i would be looking at improving protoss against hydra bust, probably just decrease cost of cannon to 125, increase speed of HT warp and decrease storm research cost to 150/150.Everyone agrees PvZ is imbalanced at highest levels, but better to start with very minor changes and see how it affects it, seen so many games where a tiny handful of seconds against a hydra bust would continue the game.
If Irradiate gets reduced by armor then Ultralisks will take 0 damage because Irradiate does 3 damage each tick.
Irradiated ultras taking 0 damage running into bio balls and just decimating marines would be funny, until the marines also have 3 armor and irradiate just does nothing now.
Its so cool that the game itself has remained rather unchanged, but the way it is played at the highest (and therefore lower) levels continues to evolve so much.
Just a few years ago TvZ was viewed as highly problematic due to the (re)development of "crazy zerg". That strategy seems rather marginal now because of further TvZ evolution (and maps? Idk.), but if the game received balance patches, I bet crazy zerg would have been "fixed" through nerfs/buffs instead.
973 likewise seemed to break PvZ, and in combination with other zerg threats remains very problematic to this day. Its exciting to see whether 973 or its variants will remain as relevant in, say, 5 years from now.
For decades, PvT used to branch into either arbiter or carrier endgame. Now we've got the shuttle+storm style.
There's also the recent TvZ games with vulture+valkyrie. No idea whether that'll last, but it certainly is distinct from the TvZ's we saw 5, 10, or 25 years ago.
Regarding the ZvP early balance. The way I see it, the issue is that there is no real meaningful trade off/risk for the Zerg to do early all ins. If its successful Protoss dies, if its not its close to 50/50 game and all the wins that comes from there are the ones that skew the balance. So I would like to go with smth small that brings risk for the Zerg to do them. For example the overlords should not have detection if there is no lair. They get the detection ability automatically with the lair, but not before, so going lings or hydra rushes can be countered by fast darks, however if the protoss risks fast darks it still leaves them vulnarable to fast mutas, so nothing big changes, but we introduce some kind of risk for the Zerg to go lair-less
I continue to think BW should make mirror match only changes that can't affect 1v1 balance in non-mirror matchups (it would affect other formats, but I think that's worth the overall benefits).
This would also make mirrors fresher and exciting in a differentiated way compared to the non-mirror matchups, as they would be a chance to see new stuff in the game, similar to how we look forward to funky new maps.
Something that can only counter Mutas in ZvZ is the obvious example, whether it's Spore Colony modifications, or even crazier stuff like other Zerg buildings also being able to attack organic air units.
But it could be fun to see Protoss abilities that only affect shields (thus restricting the impact to PvP).
Firebats doing massive bonus damage against Terran mech (by setting them on fire or something) is a funny one I'd love to see. I think Firebats would still be bad against mech because they'd be outranged, but it would be funny to see Firebats dropped onto mech, or a YOLO stim run where as long as some Firebats make it to the Vultures or Tanks they do massive damage.
Things could also just be hardcoded into the game. I always liked concepts like "Terran can only have at most one living Factory in TvT".
it would be fun if ghosts and scouts were better. Ghost gun is lame. the dude is supposed to be some special operations fighter but he fights worse than a convict on steroids. Also Ghost has psi powers (or is it only kerrigan in the lore? don't remember) but has no ability nor fighting mechanic to make use of them.
Can there be fun balance patch events thanks to shield battery?
On May 19 2026 03:24 iFU.pauline wrote: They can keep their storm at 128 damage for as long as I have my pool back at 150 mineral, it would end decades of abuse.
On May 18 2026 21:23 Maks wrote: Overall, the patch significantly buffed Terran while heavily nerfing Protoss. And now, a quarter of a century later, we're still living with the consequences.
When Patch 1.08 was released, modern standard maps didn’t exist yet, the meta was completely different, and many mechanics and tricks (such as muta stacking or stacking burrowed Lurkers) had not yet been discovered.
The patch itself wasn’t a mistake — the real mistake was that no further balance patches were ever released afterward.
25 years of good games. this is just literal pointless balance whine.
I don't have the impression people are whining here. I don't even play Broodwar, I just watch people play. If there is stuff in a game that people rarely or never use, those items could or should be changed so they can be used. Ideally without skewing balance. And I think all games and scenes benefit from changes from time to time.
On May 18 2026 21:23 Maks wrote: Overall, the patch significantly buffed Terran while heavily nerfing Protoss. And now, a quarter of a century later, we're still living with the consequences.
When Patch 1.08 was released, modern standard maps didn’t exist yet, the meta was completely different, and many mechanics and tricks (such as muta stacking or stacking burrowed Lurkers) had not yet been discovered.
The patch itself wasn’t a mistake — the real mistake was that no further balance patches were ever released afterward.
25 years of good games. this is just literal pointless balance whine.
I don't have the impression people are whining here. I don't even play Broodwar, I just watch people play. If there is stuff in a game that people rarely or never use, those items could or should be changed so they can be used. Ideally without skewing balance. And I think all games and scenes benefit from changes from time to time.
The problem is that BW isn't strictly a 1v1 game. There's 2v2, 3v3, FFA, campaign/ums and buffing units rarely used in 1v1 can break other variations of the game.
We change - or if you will - keep the game fresh by creating new maps. If a map is bad, it can just stop being played. On the other hand rolling back a patch or forever patching requires way too much effort and the risks that come with it can destroy the game if e.g. a bad patch (or a decent one that got rolled back) makes people quit. On top of that whether a patch would be good or bad can be much like the never ending debate about Terran and ZvP being imba.
This game is as perfectly flawed as it can get. SC2 despite gods knows how many patches and effort and money pumped into it didn't end up being the better Starcraft game. I hope people let that sink in for a while before opening another patch thread.
Also it took forever for Remastered to reach a point where it could match 1.16.1 that I can't imagine a new patch not hurting the game. The only "patch" we still need is the 2v2 ladder that was promised to us to sell more Remastered copies.
On May 21 2026 00:38 CHEONSOYUN wrote: this is like complaining that counter strike players don’t use all of the guns enough.
This isn't a good example because Valve has made lots of updates to CS to make guns viable and just made a massive change to the ammo system within the last couple months.
On May 21 2026 00:38 CHEONSOYUN wrote: this is like complaining that counter strike players don’t use all of the guns enough.
This isn't a good example because Valve has made lots of updates to CS to make guns viable and just made a massive change to the ammo system within the last couple months.
definitely the better game then if the cs players aren’t just using boring guns like rifle
On May 18 2026 21:34 Ryzel wrote: Okay, what changes would you recommend for a hypothetical new balance patch?
Are bug fixes considered balance patching in BW? In that case i'd suggest they fix the issue where ranged units occasionally freeze in place when you move and attack
This was proposed to pro gamers during remastered development. Bisu said something along the lines of "no don't fix that, I would never loose if that didn't happen sometimes"
On May 19 2026 14:30 FinalGame wrote: My memory might be wrong...but I recall using bwconnect to join a server to play around with 1.08 a few weeks before it officially launched?
And rumors of marines being able to be loaded into siege tanks, some other wacky stuff I can't recall since it's been forever lol
That is correct. Some of the modifications of 1.08 were already in a non-official 1.08 which was, if my memory serves me, made by the Koreans. There were no replays in 1.07 (of that I'm sure), but this was also implemented in this unofficial 1.08. I think people called it 1.08 beta or something of the sort.
On May 19 2026 14:30 FinalGame wrote: My memory might be wrong...but I recall using bwconnect to join a server to play around with 1.08 a few weeks before it officially launched?
And rumors of marines being able to be loaded into siege tanks, some other wacky stuff I can't recall since it's been forever lol
That is correct. Some of the modifications of 1.08 were already in a non-official 1.08 which was, if my memory serves me, made by the Koreans. There were no replays in 1.07 (of that I'm sure), but this was also implemented in this unofficial 1.08. I think people called it 1.08 beta or something of the sort.
Sweet so I did recall it correctly, thanks for the confirm ^^
Would’ve been really interesting to see how the meta would’ve developed if they kept storm damage at 128. Probably would’ve had a few more Protoss champions!
this is a very minor pet peeve of mine as a zerg, but creep doesn't want to spread all the way south towards walls; if the wall is below your hatchery, there is always a 1 tile gap that is unbuildable because creep doesn't want to spread all the way to southern walls.
good map makers fix this with neutral lurker egg or the very specific skeleton doodad, but when map makers don't do this for zerg it drives me insane how you can perfectly simcity quick-wall zealots/vultures on some nats but on other nats there is a 1 tile gap because creep doesn't like traveling south
Its completely true that we’re living with the consequences. And the consequences is a game still active almost 30 years after its release. How knows wtf would’ve happened if they didn’t make those changes? We should stop whining and be grateful for what we have. The fact that a RTS game like this is still alive and kicking is an absolute anomaly.
I also believe that everything can be fixed with proper maps. Who’s to say that this format is the «right way to play» anyway? Perhaps 3v3, BGH or maps like fastest is the proper way to compete? Or random vs random? Anyway we good.
Even the best maps can't make ghosts or scouts viable. :^)
That said, iirc the pro KR players were approached by Blizzard with regards to a balance patch prior to remastered's release, but they rejected the offer. Trying to remember why but I think it's more because of how god awful blizzard was (and still is!) when it comes to balancing starcraft 2 and they don't want any of that in broodwar. If pro players aren't fond of such massive changes then don't expect any big balances to come to broodwar any time soon, especially given that the classic games team at blizzard is pretty much at a skeletal workforce or rather non-existent at this point. (Heck they even passed the maintenance of warcraft 3 reforged to a third party company of all things!)
But imo, I don't think we need a balance patch. I would love to see ghosts and scouts become more viable in professional or heck even in ladder play, but I think most of the "imbalances" that broodwar have can be fixed by having good maps that are constantly updated or made on a regular basis. That's how it went for the past decade or two, why fix what ain't broke?
I don’t think it was balance patch rather than fixing some glitches, like the dragoon freeze. But they didn’t want anything changed which is completely fine by me.
afaik the devs didnt post on forums much (blizz has community managers for that and they post on blizz forums), they spoke directly to the ppl giving them feedback
this was the main SCR thread for bugs/suggestions when the classics team was working on the game, after that they wanted us to move the discussion to the blizz forums so we stopped posting there and went here https://us.battle.net/forums/en/starcraft/22814089/ but link is dead for some reason
the first dev team was the classics team led by Pete Stilwell, after that i think there was someone else but i don't remember his name, after some time the classics team left to remaster other Blizz games and a smaller team that took over for BW led by Grant Davies, after he left Matt Sherman was the main dev, after that i dunno who was in charge
On May 25 2026 23:36 Toshinou-Kyouko wrote: Even the best maps can't make ghosts or scouts viable. :^)
That said, iirc the pro KR players were approached by Blizzard with regards to a balance patch prior to remastered's release, but they rejected the offer. Trying to remember why but I think it's more because of how god awful blizzard was (and still is!) when it comes to balancing starcraft 2 and they don't want any of that in broodwar. If pro players aren't fond of such massive changes then don't expect any big balances to come to broodwar any time soon, especially given that the classic games team at blizzard is pretty much at a skeletal workforce or rather non-existent at this point. (Heck they even passed the maintenance of warcraft 3 reforged to a third party company of all things!)
But imo, I don't think we need a balance patch. I would love to see ghosts and scouts become more viable in professional or heck even in ladder play, but I think most of the "imbalances" that broodwar have can be fixed by having good maps that are constantly updated or made on a regular basis. That's how it went for the past decade or two, why fix what ain't broke?
Pretty sure the pros were scared that when (not IF!) blizzard stopped patching the game, it would be left in a worse state than it is now. So not really about what blizzard would do, but rather what would happen once they stop updating the game.
Given how SCR is now completely abandoned outside of 2x a year ladder map updates, it was probably for the best.
On May 18 2026 21:23 Maks wrote: Overall, the patch significantly buffed Terran while heavily nerfing Protoss. And now, a quarter of a century later, we're still living with the consequences.
When Patch 1.08 was released, modern standard maps didn’t exist yet, the meta was completely different, and many mechanics and tricks (such as muta stacking or stacking burrowed Lurkers) had not yet been discovered.
The patch itself wasn’t a mistake — the real mistake was that no further balance patches were ever released afterward.
25 years of good games. this is just literal pointless balance whine.
players had to spend 25 years exploring playing and fully utilizing concepts. and without progaming and esports with millions of US dollars at stake we would have never known the answers.
bw has become one of the most greatest games ever because there was no patch. the players and the mapmakers took a beautifully designed game from blizzard and made it an extremely deep game that is still entertaining and fresh.
also consider that remastered was its own balance patch:
valkyries became more stable/usable protoss could remap probe and pylon off ‘p’ mutalisks benefitted heavily from TR-24 mapmakers received new tools / quality of life changes. the map pool before and after remastered is night and day with new concepts like butter and refined standard maps
the quality of life changes as well it was as perfect as could be helping give SC1 new life. compare with warcraft 3 remaster
Hey so I have full database of W-L records of all matches every played in ASLs and KSLs. Do you think Remastered era should be treated separately? (Basically ASL4 onward is separated from ASL season 0-3).
Because it would have major implication for some players' matchup record. FlaSh in TvZ being one of the biggest ones!
Zerg - Spawning pool: minerals reduced to 150, time increased to 100 - Devourer: minerals reduced to 100, hit points increased to 280 - Spore: +15 dmg vs bilogical - Ultarlisk: Anabolic Synthesis; minerals/gas reduced to 150
Protoss - Zealot: minerals reduced to 75 - Scout: minerals reduced to 200, gas reduced to 100, Gravitic Thrusters; minerals/gas reduced ro 150
Terran - Ghost: damage increased to 20 and +2 per upg, Lockdown; minerals/gas reduced to 100, energy reduced to 75
On June 08 2026 23:04 Necr0KAM wrote: Zerg - Spawning pool: minerals reduced to 150, time increased to 100 - Devourer: minerals reduced to 100, hit points increased to 280 - Spore: +15 dmg vs bilogical - Ultarlisk: Anabolic Synthesis; minerals/gas reduced to 150
Protoss - Zealot: minerals reduced to 75 - Scout: minerals reduced to 200, gas reduced to 100, Gravitic Thrusters; minerals/gas reduced ro 150
Terran - Ghost: damage increased to 20 and +2 per upg, Lockdown; minerals/gas reduced to 100, energy reduced to 75
Zealot at 75 would probably make terran mid game timing attacks impossible. They are on razor edge most of the time, I think it would break the matchup.
Scouts would probably still be shit. They are an anti air unit for a race that never fights air except against zerg where mobility to escape scourges is paramount. By the time you get fleet beacon and thrusters, air is a non factor.
Ghosts needs their other upgrades to be cheaper and faster to be worth anything
I think that the biggest problem with BW remains the spells imo. They are so powerful that they close down whole strategic paths. The fact that you can’t really go carriers vs zerg because plague is stupidly busted or that stasis makes battlecruisers just useless against protoss is a bit sad.
If the game was ever patched, i would prioritize nerfing AoE spells across the board.
On June 10 2026 03:36 Starecat wrote: Btw did remaster truly changed Valks?
They didn't reliably shoot at enemies before the remastered version, because of a bug/limitation in how many graphical sprites can be displayed at once. That bug/limitation was fixed/adjusted, so now they reliably shoot.
On June 10 2026 03:36 Starecat wrote: Btw did remaster truly changed Valks?
They didn't reliably shoot at enemies before the remastered version, because of a bug/limitation in how many graphical sprites can be displayed at once. That bug/limitation was fixed/adjusted, so now they reliably shoot.
This is kinda a myth. For 1v1 games it was very rare to reach the sprite limit. But it was a real issue for team games and for long Terran vs Terran games.
But many people believe that Terran doing valks build on remastered vs zerg is cuz They fixed that sprite issue.
On June 10 2026 03:36 Starecat wrote: Btw did remaster truly changed Valks?
They didn't reliably shoot at enemies before the remastered version, because of a bug/limitation in how many graphical sprites can be displayed at once. That bug/limitation was fixed/adjusted, so now they reliably shoot.
This is kinda a myth. For 1v1 games it was very rare to reach the sprite limit. But it was a real issue for team games and for long Terran vs Terran games.
But many people believe that Terran doing valks build on remastered vs zerg is cuz They fixed that sprite issue.
it's because Terrans learned how to do backwards sliding micro
On June 10 2026 03:36 Starecat wrote: Btw did remaster truly changed Valks?
They didn't reliably shoot at enemies before the remastered version, because of a bug/limitation in how many graphical sprites can be displayed at once. That bug/limitation was fixed/adjusted, so now they reliably shoot.
This is kinda a myth. For 1v1 games it was very rare to reach the sprite limit. But it was a real issue for team games and for long Terran vs Terran games.
But many people believe that Terran doing valks build on remastered vs zerg is cuz They fixed that sprite issue.
it's because Terrans learned how to do backwards sliding micro
maybe they noticed how to do it vs. wraiths
It is both. But moreso slide micro making them hard to hit despite their stationary weakness
Medic Flare: From 75 to 25 energy Medic Restoration: AoE spell Ghost: Standard shot stuns enemy for 3 seconds Ghost Implants: From 2 to 4 extra vision Battlecruiser: From 500 to 600 HP Battlecruiser Yamato: From 150 to 100 energy Science Vessel: Can carry a single medic or ghost which replace EMP to Flare or Lockdown respectively
Zerg: Queen Parasite: From 75 to 25 energy Queen Ensnare: Range from 9 to 11 Infested Terran: From 60 to 80 HP, starts with 1 armour Guardian: Devourer speed (faster movement) Devourer: Guardian cooldown (faster rate of fire)
Protoss: Shield Battery: From 2 to 4 shield recovery/per energy Dark Archon: Become cloaked when energy is full Scout: 225/75 cost instead of 275/125 Scout upgrade: Vision and thrusters are given instantly, however research to teleport them at waypoint instantly Corsair Web: From 125 to 75 energy Beacon: 250/150 cost instead of 300/200
EPT
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/IO75mQz.jpeg)
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