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On October 31 2025 09:24 jimminy_kriket wrote:
Imagine preparing for a finals and only preparing builds that worked on half the map. He fucking deserved to lose if that's true.
I think it's only you who interpreted what he said this way. If you listen to progamers, especially someone like Mini who plans his build to every second, you'll get what Snow meant.
Their attention to details is on a scale not imaginable to the casual players/viewers. It's like "if I spawn in this location, it mines a bit better so I can get this down at x minutes and so on....", "there's this spot near this spawn location where I can hide that...", "the rush distance is a bit shorter so I can do this timing..." etc.
Also, every ASL player prepare builds like that ("working on half the map"), not just Snow. There are 4 locations you can spawn and 3 for your opponent, and there are 7 maps. Could you imagine the permutations?
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Can we agree Snow is the ultimate choker in big games?
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United States2917 Posts
On October 31 2025 09:31 Kraekkling wrote:
I think what he means is that there are some very specific cheeses / builds where you either hide buildings or dodge vision or similar, and this sometimes depends on the spawning locations of the players
its like, if I get lucky and spawn there and my opponent also spawns on the right spawn, I do this cheese
if not, I play standard
This is true. It's like the map Match Point, Protoss can wall in the opponent with a gateway and forge and have Zealots pop into their base from the gateway wall if you're spawned in top right but if you get the bottom left spawn, you can't have Zealots pop into their base for harassment so it becomes much weaker to the point that you may just decide to play standard from that spawn. These scenarios happen a lot in series prep.
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On October 31 2025 10:43 ShowTheLights wrote:
Can we agree Snow is the ultimate choker in big games?
That would imply he should’ve won this series. Soma was the favourite going into this and did what was expected.
Choker might be a bit harsh, but Snow is def one of those guys who isn’t as good offline as he is online.
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On October 31 2025 10:43 ShowTheLights wrote:
Can we agree Snow is the ultimate choker in big games?
Go win ASL.
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ALLEYCAT BLUES50584 Posts
On October 31 2025 10:52 RowdierBob wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2025 10:43 ShowTheLights wrote:
Can we agree Snow is the ultimate choker in big games? That would imply he should’ve won this series. Soma was the favourite going into this and did what was expected. Choker might be a bit harsh, but Snow is def one of those guys who isn’t as good offline as he is online.
that also isn't true, he just isn't good against the top zergs and this has always been his thing. Both online and offline.
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On October 31 2025 11:43 BLinD-RawR wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2025 10:52 RowdierBob wrote:On October 31 2025 10:43 ShowTheLights wrote:
Can we agree Snow is the ultimate choker in big games? That would imply he should’ve won this series. Soma was the favourite going into this and did what was expected. Choker might be a bit harsh, but Snow is def one of those guys who isn’t as good offline as he is online. that also isn't true, he just isn't good against the top zergs and this has always been his thing. Both online and offline.
10% winrate in practice games vs zerg before the finals
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On October 31 2025 11:43 BLinD-RawR wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2025 10:52 RowdierBob wrote:On October 31 2025 10:43 ShowTheLights wrote:
Can we agree Snow is the ultimate choker in big games? That would imply he should’ve won this series. Soma was the favourite going into this and did what was expected. Choker might be a bit harsh, but Snow is def one of those guys who isn’t as good offline as he is online. that also isn't true, he just isn't good against the top zergs and this has always been his thing. Both online and offline.
You’re right.
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So SnOw didn't have any plan B if he didn't get the spawn he wished for from game 1 to 4... I am not sure about that.
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Netherlands5177 Posts
I really like what Snow said about the first games being key, but then he also admits gambling about his starting locations. Wtf? He didn't care about winning enough or either he doesn't believe HIS PvZ is strong enough to beat Soma without rolling the best spawn location.
Snow: "If I get that spawn I might win because I prepared something. If I don't get that spawn I will just lose."
I know he is a dad and has to allocate his time, but imho - going by his statement - he should have had a solid plan for AT LEAST the first 3 games instead of gambling even if he believes Soma is much stronger than him. Also why wouldn\t he talk to Mini/Bisu/Best instead of JyJ and Royal?
It's no wonder Snow got nervous, because his prep was shit. Knowing this now, I'm glad he didn't win.
Now it would be interesting to hear Soma's side regarding prep and mentality going into the finals.
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and the crazy thing how he also said ''even if i was playing badly i couldve that overcome that with sheer luck'' idk how it works on pro level but around my level i totally can agree with this ( Protoss always can win with bad play, zerg not really )
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United Kingdom1696 Posts
I completely agree with Snow's take that he lost because he didn't play well. It was a listless performance, and he had ample opportunity to win, even doing a lot of the hard work but letting himself down at key points.
It's so interesting to get to hear from the pros themselves these days, this level of access just adds so much colour to the characters and thereby the storylines. They used to be such black boxes.
It's also nice to see how much community there is among them. They may each compete alone onstage but there's so much mutuality and support going on, it's great to be aware of that too.
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On October 31 2025 01:20 G5 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2025 00:43 sas.Sziky wrote:
Jinjin saved the foreigner world in SC thanks man! But i am not sure Snow knows better than tl.net heroes so i am confused now someone can say for me what is imba now ? No, you're right. ZvP = 100% totally balanced with no advantage one way or the other. All Protoss players are just absolute bumbling morons compared to these genius-level Zerg players and that's why they have done so poorly against Zerg players over 20+ years. Makes total sense. I hope these tl.net heroes can finally STFU about imbalances and listen to SnOw who said he lost because he played poorly and there's no other reason than that (as he goes out to another Zerg in ASL and said he lost to basically every pro-Zerg in the scene during practice). All sarcasm aside, PvZ is clearly a winnable match up (as all MUs are) but to argue against Zerg having any sort of advantage in ZvP means you're either blind or you're being insincere IMO. It's like saying P doesn't have an advantage against T when that clearly isn't the case. Admitting that doesn't mean that imba is the reason people usually lose but to not admit clearly visible slight advantages in a MU is a weird stance to take by anyone. well stats from the ladder suggest t>p is actually the case, and life time stats from the pro scene have protoss only a hair more advantaged than Terran but worse in big series like finals etc. So yeah I donno how much we can rely either on data or received wisdom because frankly they often go in different directions.
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On October 31 2025 23:35 Ze'ev wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2025 01:20 G5 wrote:On October 31 2025 00:43 sas.Sziky wrote:
Jinjin saved the foreigner world in SC thanks man! But i am not sure Snow knows better than tl.net heroes so i am confused now someone can say for me what is imba now ? No, you're right. ZvP = 100% totally balanced with no advantage one way or the other. All Protoss players are just absolute bumbling morons compared to these genius-level Zerg players and that's why they have done so poorly against Zerg players over 20+ years. Makes total sense. I hope these tl.net heroes can finally STFU about imbalances and listen to SnOw who said he lost because he played poorly and there's no other reason than that (as he goes out to another Zerg in ASL and said he lost to basically every pro-Zerg in the scene during practice). All sarcasm aside, PvZ is clearly a winnable match up (as all MUs are) but to argue against Zerg having any sort of advantage in ZvP means you're either blind or you're being insincere IMO. It's like saying P doesn't have an advantage against T when that clearly isn't the case. Admitting that doesn't mean that imba is the reason people usually lose but to not admit clearly visible slight advantages in a MU is a weird stance to take by anyone. well stats from the ladder suggest t>p is actually the case, and life time stats from the pro scene have protoss only a hair more advantaged than Terran but worse in big series like finals etc. So yeah I donno how much we can rely either on data or received wisdom because frankly they often go in different directions.
Finals data is not a fair nor accurate representation of balance. Finals for TvP are heavily skewered by Flash and Light for example. Then we have Round of 8 data also hewvily skewered by FlaSh and Light who tend to win if they are vs protoss in the round of 8. beside them two we have Sharp with 2 vs toss set wins, last with 2, Sea with 1, Barracks with 1, and Mind with 1. that is 7 vs toss set wins. Flash and Light total for more vs toss set wins than that. Whenever other terrans make it they tend to lose vs Protoss.
We also have season 13 where zerg won no best of set vs a protoss in ro8. Rain 3 vs 2 soulkey. then Rain 4 vs 2 soma. and then third place match Bisu 3 vs 2 Soma. And in ASL 12 Mini dumpestered Queen 4-1
and ASL 11 Mini also dumpstered Queen 4-1.
But if we look just at the finals for those three seasons we only get the 3-4 loss of Mini vs Larva. That is 5 protoss set wins and 1 zerg set win. Yet we only use that one zerg set win in our data?
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Great channel, jinjin!
Big fan of the pro insights.
Keep up the awesome.
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Thanks a lot for the video!
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Snow has no incentive to complain about balance... why anger the fans and talk smack about the game that makes you a living? Even if he thought it was slightly imba he is wise not to say anything imho.
I'm speculating of course but... that's my speculation.
EDIT: Also thank you for the translation jinjin. You are the GOAT
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On November 01 2025 02:08 RJBTVYOUTUBE wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2025 23:35 Ze'ev wrote:On October 31 2025 01:20 G5 wrote:On October 31 2025 00:43 sas.Sziky wrote:
Jinjin saved the foreigner world in SC thanks man! But i am not sure Snow knows better than tl.net heroes so i am confused now someone can say for me what is imba now ? No, you're right. ZvP = 100% totally balanced with no advantage one way or the other. All Protoss players are just absolute bumbling morons compared to these genius-level Zerg players and that's why they have done so poorly against Zerg players over 20+ years. Makes total sense. I hope these tl.net heroes can finally STFU about imbalances and listen to SnOw who said he lost because he played poorly and there's no other reason than that (as he goes out to another Zerg in ASL and said he lost to basically every pro-Zerg in the scene during practice). All sarcasm aside, PvZ is clearly a winnable match up (as all MUs are) but to argue against Zerg having any sort of advantage in ZvP means you're either blind or you're being insincere IMO. It's like saying P doesn't have an advantage against T when that clearly isn't the case. Admitting that doesn't mean that imba is the reason people usually lose but to not admit clearly visible slight advantages in a MU is a weird stance to take by anyone. well stats from the ladder suggest t>p is actually the case, and life time stats from the pro scene have protoss only a hair more advantaged than Terran but worse in big series like finals etc. So yeah I donno how much we can rely either on data or received wisdom because frankly they often go in different directions. Finals data is not a fair nor accurate representation of balance. Finals for TvP are heavily skewered by Flash and Light for example. Then we have Round of 8 data also hewvily skewered by FlaSh and Light who tend to win if they are vs protoss in the round of 8. beside them two we have Sharp with 2 vs toss set wins, last with 2, Sea with 1, Barracks with 1, and Mind with 1. that is 7 vs toss set wins. Flash and Light total for more vs toss set wins than that. Whenever other terrans make it they tend to lose vs Protoss. We also have season 13 where zerg won no best of set vs a protoss in ro8. Rain 3 vs 2 soulkey. then Rain 4 vs 2 soma. and then third place match Bisu 3 vs 2 Soma. And in ASL 12 Mini dumpestered Queen 4-1 and ASL 11 Mini also dumpstered Queen 4-1. But if we look just at the finals for those three seasons we only get the 3-4 loss of Mini vs Larva. That is 5 protoss set wins and 1 zerg set win. Yet we only use that one zerg set win in our data? My whole point was that we cant rely on data and received wisdom and you come back to complain that the data I used isnt reliable enough to draw conclusions from. The fuck guy?
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I think the bigger reason is that all these guys are still burned out from last season. It is bi wonder that people like Bisu made a good run, last season relative early flying out with s long break before.
SK, Snow, Best all playing considerable weaker than last ASL. Further to be honest this Season has been for me personally and i think for others as well, one of the worst seasons. There were some great games on like semi
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EPT
