SnOw's ASL S20 Finals Review

On October 31 2025 00:43 sas.Sziky wrote:
Jinjin saved the foreigner world in SC thanks man! But i am not sure Snow knows better than tl.net heroes so i am confused now someone can say for me what is imba now ?

On October 31 2025 01:20 G5 wrote:


No, you're right. ZvP = 100% totally balanced with no advantage one way or the other. All Protoss players are just absolute bumbling morons compared to these genius-level Zerg players and that's why they have done so poorly against Zerg players over 20+ years. Makes total sense. I hope these tl.net heroes can finally STFU about imbalances and listen to SnOw who said he lost because he played poorly and there's no other reason than that (as he goes out to another Zerg in ASL and said he lost to basically every pro-Zerg in the scene during practice).


All sarcasm aside, PvZ is clearly a winnable match up (as all MUs are) but to argue against Zerg having any sort of advantage in ZvP means you're either blind or you're being insincere IMO. It's like saying P doesn't have an advantage against T when that clearly isn't the case. Admitting that doesn't mean that imba is the reason people usually lose but to not admit clearly visible slight advantages in a MU is a weird stance to take by anyone.

On October 31 2025 01:33 sas.Sziky wrote:


why u cant agree with players who is better than you ? well big different between you and me: i will not talking about Pro level ( because i am not here on pro level i cant clearly understand what is imba there or what is not ) i can say around my level but because there are many better zerg than me then i cant talk about balance. How u think u already can understand pro level its so insane for me sorry + i remember the reason why and when u started to talking about balance and was disrespecting so please man :D
and btw dont said what i am dont said '' No, you're right. ZvP = 100% totally balanced with no advantage one way or the other. All Protoss players are just absolute bumbling morons compared to these genius-level Zerg players'' why u said this ?

On October 31 2025 02:20 G5 wrote:


Sziky, you saying "why u cant agree with players who is better than you?" is not well thought out. I could say similar shit to you. You are aware Stork said PvZ is super imbalanced and Protoss' have basically given up trying to beat Zerg right? He's way better than you. Are you going to listen to him? Probably not. We all have our own opinions and just because someone is better than us doesn't mean their right. You and I both disagree on stuff but we're both better than at least half the people on this forum. Should they all listen to us? Of course not cuss at least one of us is wrong. Come on man, that's just a take that you really didn't think through.

Also, if you're talking about your level and not pro level, why are you even commenting about balance here. This is a video of a professional Protoss player discussing his experience in the finals of the top tournament in the world. Obviously we're discussing pro stuff here and in ASL threads.

In regards to the "dont said what i am dont said", listen, I know English is your second language (no hate, only respect for knowing an additional language), so I'm guessing you don't know sarcasm well in this language. So, perhaps I shouldn't have littered my statement with so much of it. But that is sarcasm.

But whatever dude, if you wanna go around defending ZvP balance, have at it. As I said before though, I think you'd have to either be blind or insincere to not admit clear slight advantages in a match up. I think you know this game well and I don't think you're dumb at all, so I think you're quite simply being insincere.

With all that said, I don't hate you or dislike you dude. I disagree with a ton of the shit you post, as I'm sure you do with me, but honestly, no personal hate whatsoever. Please don't think that, ever. I wish you the best, always.

On October 31 2025 03:46 EndingLife wrote:
Do the majority of protoss players really think PvZ is harder than PvT? If so, is it mostly because of 973?
I guess I'm one of the few who actually prefers to play vs 973 than vs standard 3 hatch spire into 6 hatch hydra.

On October 31 2025 04:26 sas.Sziky wrote:

Map things of course exist and thats yes can be good or bad and we can call balance, unbalanced its right i never
said this is not exist. '' In the same video in which Flash argues about no Protoss bonjwa with his chat, he indirectly acknowledges imbalance (without realizing it) '' it is how ? he said '' FlaSh Explains Why There is No Protoss Bonjwas '': ''' Protoss not having any bonjwas ? '' '' it cant be helped '' '' thats just skill issue '' ok so it not means skill issue? i dont really understand.

On October 31 2025 04:56 TMNT wrote:

Did you not read what I wrote? It's right there in the screentshot, isn't it? He acknowledged that Terran is OP on those maps. So if BW is only played on those maps, Terran is imba. Do you agree. If yes then we're going somewhere.

On October 31 2025 09:24 jimminy_kriket wrote:
Imagine preparing for a finals and only preparing builds that worked on half the map. He fucking deserved to lose if that's true.

On October 31 2025 09:31 Kraekkling wrote:
I think what he means is that there are some very specific cheeses / builds where you either hide buildings or dodge vision or similar, and this sometimes depends on the spawning locations of the players

its like, if I get lucky and spawn there and my opponent also spawns on the right spawn, I do this cheese

if not, I play standard

On October 31 2025 10:43 ShowTheLights wrote:
Can we agree Snow is the ultimate choker in big games?

On October 31 2025 10:43 ShowTheLights wrote:
Can we agree Snow is the ultimate choker in big games?

On October 31 2025 11:43 BLinD-RawR wrote:

that also isn't true, he just isn't good against the top zergs and this has always been his thing. Both online and offline.

On October 31 2025 01:20 G5 wrote:


No, you're right. ZvP = 100% totally balanced with no advantage one way or the other. All Protoss players are just absolute bumbling morons compared to these genius-level Zerg players and that's why they have done so poorly against Zerg players over 20+ years. Makes total sense. I hope these tl.net heroes can finally STFU about imbalances and listen to SnOw who said he lost because he played poorly and there's no other reason than that (as he goes out to another Zerg in ASL and said he lost to basically every pro-Zerg in the scene during practice).


All sarcasm aside, PvZ is clearly a winnable match up (as all MUs are) but to argue against Zerg having any sort of advantage in ZvP means you're either blind or you're being insincere IMO. It's like saying P doesn't have an advantage against T when that clearly isn't the case. Admitting that doesn't mean that imba is the reason people usually lose but to not admit clearly visible slight advantages in a MU is a weird stance to take by anyone.

On October 31 2025 23:35 Ze'ev wrote:
well stats from the ladder suggest t>p is actually the case, and life time stats from the pro scene have protoss only a hair more advantaged than Terran but worse in big series like finals etc. So yeah I donno how much we can rely either on data or received wisdom because frankly they often go in different directions.

On November 01 2025 02:08 RJBTVYOUTUBE wrote:



Finals data is not a fair nor accurate representation of balance. Finals for TvP are heavily skewered by Flash and Light for example. Then we have Round of 8 data also hewvily skewered by FlaSh and Light who tend to win if they are vs protoss in the round of 8. beside them two we have Sharp with 2 vs toss set wins, last with 2, Sea with 1, Barracks with 1, and Mind with 1. that is 7 vs toss set wins. Flash and Light total for more vs toss set wins than that. Whenever other terrans make it they tend to lose vs Protoss.

We also have season 13 where zerg won no best of set vs a protoss in ro8. Rain 3 vs 2 soulkey. then Rain 4 vs 2 soma. and then third place match Bisu 3 vs 2 Soma. And in ASL 12 Mini dumpestered Queen 4-1
and ASL 11 Mini also dumpstered Queen 4-1.

But if we look just at the finals for those three seasons we only get the 3-4 loss of Mini vs Larva. That is 5 protoss set wins and 1 zerg set win. Yet we only use that one zerg set win in our data?

On November 01 2025 07:04 Ze'ev wrote:
My whole point was that we cant rely on data and received wisdom and you come back to complain that the data I used isnt reliable enough to draw conclusions from. The fuck guy?

On October 31 2025 09:24 jimminy_kriket wrote:
Imagine preparing for a finals and only preparing builds that worked on half the map. He fucking deserved to lose if that's true.

On November 05 2025 16:31 TMNT wrote:
I honestly don't know how you guys read his comment as such. It obviously means "if I spawn in this location and my opponent spawns in that location, then this specific build will work better so I will do it". If not he will play "standard" and make decisions based on the information obtained, just like every other PvZ game.

What do you mean "builds that only work on half the map"? That other builds on that map will automatically fail?

Most of the times you see (in players' post match interview) that they just "invent" builds on the spot (open standard then make a decision based on scouting info), or depending on the previous games. Unless it's something very specific, like going 2 Gate, going Corsair Reaver, or destroying the gas on Death Valley, or proxy Hatch on Death Valley (last season).

You can even tell from Soma's play that he doesn't have specific builds on each location either. Most games during the finals and semis he just went Spire and Den after 3 Hatches and decided where to go from there based on state of the games.