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TMNT
2316 Posts
If Fantasy can regain his level with 6 months of practice after 10 years not touching the game, Flash can do the same after a 3 year break. History has taught us that these progamers' base skill is too high and too solid to drop, injury permitted. Queen winning ASL back to back after military service. Rain reaching ASL finals after years being a variety streamer. | ||
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Nirli
Bulgaria337 Posts
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y2kid
91 Posts
I'll be happy for flash to return and am eager to see how he will dominate everyone again, tho in my eyes his stain will stay strong as long as he doesn't accept what he has done and doesn't apologize for it. We're past the times when you could do something like this then ignore it as if it never happened. | ||
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TMNT
2316 Posts
On June 19 2024 03:46 y2kid wrote: If I recall correctly people are mad not so much because of what he did, but he didn't have the balls to own his mistake and come up to apologize, like Bisu did. I may be wrong tho, fact check this. That too. But the others have an easier time than him because they weren't the "mastermind" of the scheme like Flash. Aside from the creator of the coin himself, Flash was the one who started the investment and convinced his friends to do so along with him. He was also the only one, afaik, to talk about that coin on his stream (which the community saw as advertising). | ||
Peeano
Netherlands4678 Posts
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KameZerg
Sweden1746 Posts
On June 19 2024 03:05 ThunderJunk wrote: Crypto is funny. If one person is making money off of it that means someone else is losing money off of it. But people all act like they've been morally wronged when they end up on the unfortunate side. Anyways... I'm personally hyped to see what happens with Flash returning. He's the GOAT, but he's also a little older now. I still put him as my favorite to win any given tournament, but where before I was like 65% expecting him to win, now I'm like 35% expecting him to win. There's a lot of stiff competition and PvT has evolved quite a lot in his absence. But it's still by definition a scam, it's only purpose was to bring in enough people to later dump it and runoff with their money and he shilled it to his viewers. One person making money and one losing money applies to all trading including stocks, but not all stocks are scams. | ||
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tankgirl
322 Posts
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/5hwxynL.jpeg) ![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/611qVNp.png) | ||
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chongu
Malaysia2579 Posts
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SlayerS_BunkiE
Canada1706 Posts
On June 19 2024 06:24 KameZerg wrote: But it's still by definition a scam, it's only purpose was to bring in enough people to later dump it and runoff with their money and he shilled it to his viewers. One person making money and one losing money applies to all trading including stocks, but not all stocks are scams. Well said. Makes you question every other “legit” crypto out there. Is it fundamentally any different? The asset (cryptocurrency) you are investing in is the same. There are other differences for sure. Like the crypto wasnt created by the scammers themselves. And the intention to make the crypto widely accepted was never there. And of course there are scams where there was never a crypto to begin with. But based on this comment, I guess this wasnt the case here. To respond to the initial post — this kind of behavior (ie pump and dump, market manipulation) is also illegal for stocks. Though I somewhat agree that its not morally wrong. All is fair in love and war (and investing). Of course, scams are another matter. How to differentiate the two can be debated. The two big criteria I guess are was the crypto actually real and was there any chance to make money. | ||
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ruhtraeel
Canada102 Posts
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NoobSkills
United States1595 Posts
On June 19 2024 06:24 KameZerg wrote: But it's still by definition a scam, it's only purpose was to bring in enough people to later dump it and runoff with their money and he shilled it to his viewers. One person making money and one losing money applies to all trading including stocks, but not all stocks are scams. I don't know man, anyone who fell for the NFT crap or crypto crap are just salty get rich quick schemers. Was flash even aware that individual crypto's owner was going to pump and dump or that it was flawed? Like does that apply across the board? Is GSL responsible for obese people or those with heart conditions who may have had issues because they were sponsored by Hot6? Is every player who drank one also responsible? Also the guy you quoted claims that cpyto is funny in that someone has to lose for someone to gain, and in a legit sense of the meme money concept of crpyto that isn't true. It doesn't HAVE to work that way and also it probably shouldn't if that is what it's real purpose is. This was a scam taking it outside of the realm of a weird digital currency. | ||
Mizenhauer
United States1798 Posts
On June 20 2024 04:58 NoobSkills wrote: I don't know man, anyone who fell for the NFT crap or crypto crap are just salty get rich quick schemers. Was flash even aware that individual crypto's owner was going to pump and dump or that it was flawed? Like does that apply across the board? Is GSL responsible for obese people or those with heart conditions who may have had issues because they were sponsored by Hot6? Is every player who drank one also responsible? Also the guy you quoted claims that cpyto is funny in that someone has to lose for someone to gain, and in a legit sense of the meme money concept of crpyto that isn't true. It doesn't HAVE to work that way and also it probably shouldn't if that is what it's real purpose is. This was a scam taking it outside of the realm of a weird digital currency. Flash seemed very content to lead a lot of people into financial ruin. South Korea is a very different place than Western countries and committing suicide when facing insurmountable debt is far more common than some would like to acknowledge. The whole scheme never really panned out but, judging by intent, Flash seemed to have no qualms about leading his fans and those who watched his stream down that road. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland23698 Posts
On June 20 2024 04:58 NoobSkills wrote: I don't know man, anyone who fell for the NFT crap or crypto crap are just salty get rich quick schemers. Was flash even aware that individual crypto's owner was going to pump and dump or that it was flawed? Like does that apply across the board? Is GSL responsible for obese people or those with heart conditions who may have had issues because they were sponsored by Hot6? Is every player who drank one also responsible? Also the guy you quoted claims that cpyto is funny in that someone has to lose for someone to gain, and in a legit sense of the meme money concept of crpyto that isn't true. It doesn't HAVE to work that way and also it probably shouldn't if that is what it's real purpose is. This was a scam taking it outside of the realm of a weird digital currency. The backlash against Flash on the other hand is much more from people who aren’t investing in crypto and salty, but merely on the principle of the whole thing. I think many people are at least relatively resistant to regular old marketing, although less than we might think. I mean it’s a huge industry for a reason after all. But we have a (relatively) new area of streamers, influencers etc where one forms a parasocial bond with an audience that can actually punch through that, and a pathway to exploiting said audience opens up. People will make mistakes, we all do but I do think if that’s your moneymaker you have to be aware of this and extremely careful in how you leverage that power and influence you have. Especially if you’ve a relatively young audience. You’re not really a peer, nor is it similar to a boss/employee relationship, but it’s somewhere in between and negotiated with some care. Obviously this isn’t likely to be your average viewer, but the more hardcore fans, or perhaps the more maladjusted. Peeano posted a rundown up the page that’s apparently pretty good, going to give it a watch myself as I’m going mostly off memory here. So as to whether Flash scammed folks or w/e or was merely naive/careless or whatever idk. | ||
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Expensive-Law-9830
67 Posts
On June 20 2024 12:38 Mizenhauer wrote: Flash seemed very content to lead a lot of people into financial ruin. South Korea is a very different place than Western countries and committing suicide when facing insurmountable debt is far more common than some would like to acknowledge. The whole scheme never really panned out but, judging by intent, Flash seemed to have no qualms about leading his fans and those who watched his stream down that road. On April 21 2024 07:46 Mizenhauer wrote: We all compromise our morals for the sake of entertainment and personal satisfaction. If it wasn't Saudis in SC2, it's the sweatshops that make your clothes or the chick fil a that you eat. I'd rather have some money go to the dudes playing StarCraft than some other nefarious purpose. | ||
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Sentikoret
20 Posts
There is a significant difference between "I am okay with faceless Saudis spending some money of beautiful esports event instead of arming another militant group somewhere in the world" and "I am, as a part of an audience, okay with this particular streamer/player leading other members of the audience, my peers, to ruin and possible suicide". Alternatives to esports investments of Saudis are unpredictable and likely worse. Alternatives to Flash not being a heartless scammer - Flash being slightly poorer and way more respected. | ||
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SC-Shield
Bulgaria804 Posts
On June 19 2024 06:24 KameZerg wrote: But it's still by definition a scam, it's only purpose was to bring in enough people to later dump it and runoff with their money and he shilled it to his viewers. One person making money and one losing money applies to all trading including stocks, but not all stocks are scams. I don't know how stocks are zero-sum game. If it's a successful company behind the stock, they usually give you a part of earnings either via stock buybacks or dividends. No investor needs to lose money in this. On the other hand, crypto doesn't produce anything. You just need someone more excited to pay more than you paid. | ||
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goody153
44020 Posts
Artosis already casted a game. Nice On June 20 2024 12:38 Mizenhauer wrote: Flash seemed very content to lead a lot of people into financial ruin. South Korea is a very different place than Western countries and committing suicide when facing insurmountable debt is far more common than some would like to acknowledge. The whole scheme never really panned out but, judging by intent, Flash seemed to have no qualms about leading his fans and those who watched his stream down that road. Tbf why would anybody follow a progamer in trading/crypto/forex/investment ? Honestly that's just ill advised in the first place. Like you shouldnt be investing your hard earned money cause a pro/athelete said so. This is like following taylor swift for financial advice just cause her songs are your favorite Investments are always risks. None of the investments are guranteed regardless what you are investing on you could be investing on something that will most likely never go down in a foreseeable time like something like Alphabet. What you invested could not have a decent return or you could even lose from it (much more if it isnt a bluechip company although potential for meteoric rise is there as much as completely collapse) Hell so many people did not see FTX collapse coming that's like a multibillion dollar company. If peoples move is to follow their favorite progamer on financial decisions then they are fucked in the first place Prepping, studying and caution is like a thing since the oldest days and these apply to trading/investments as well. If somebody isnt doing that and that is their fault in the first place On June 20 2024 21:08 Sentikoret wrote: EL9830, you force me, Serral fanboy, to defend Mizenhauer. There is a significant difference between "I am okay with faceless Saudis spending some money of beautiful esports event instead of arming another militant group somewhere in the world" and "I am, as a part of an audience, okay with this particular streamer/player leading other members of the audience, my peers, to ruin and possible suicide". Alternatives to esports investments of Saudis are unpredictable and likely worse. Alternatives to Flash not being a heartless scammer - Flash being slightly poorer and way more respected. Is there a significant difference ? Somebody faceless or somebody known sounds like the same to me if you are still catering to their product/service offered and they are still commiting some deplorable things. This is like buying anything from china, russia and US like 3 of those nations are responsible for some shit in modern history and still are (militarily, propaganda, economic and espionage). We know buying anything from those 3 nations indirectly funds their military and government to do more deplorable things yet we still buy from them anyways. True morale highground would be to not support any faction, org or individuals but if you still buy/support somebody knowing what they do. Maybe be independent, do homesteading, find alternate sources of the product/services or quit altogether or anything not to support them. Sounds extreme in some cases but that's how true you would be to your social justice But if you still buy/cater from them knowing what they do yet still preach that supporting one entity or org is wrong while condeming other things. Well that's just hypocrisy and preaching something you cant back. On June 20 2024 03:31 ruhtraeel wrote: My prediction is that next ASL (if he enters), he'll make it to ro8. Then he'll be consistently in the semis Probably just top 16 at most. Next few seasons tho might reach ro8 and maybe up | ||
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Ideas
United States8055 Posts
I'm wondering if his multitasking is down a bit due to wrists injuries still (or just rusty play)? Like will he be avoiding APM-taxing strats like SK Terran because they hurt his wrists? Or will he be like Effort and only play a few games a day? In terms of how popular he'll be who knows. Probably not as popular before but also the streaming culture is so much different than since he left I think? Proleague is so much bigger, and the University scene as well. Flash regularly playing in Proleague would be so awesome. edit - also lmao at arguing about flash's ethics. We're foreigners. we don't give any money to the scene (it's basically impossible to). We just watch from the sidelines. We only get our information through 2nd and 3rd hand accounts, never getting the full story or the true Korean fan perspective on anything (people who actually fund the scene). All we can do is watch, it doesn't matter if you think he was in the right or wrong. He's coming back. | ||
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TornadoSteve
906 Posts
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FlaShFTW
United States10017 Posts
On June 21 2024 00:56 TornadoSteve wrote: Huh? Pretty sure it does matter, for many of us. His streaming popularity can and will be affected, and a % of his viewers are foreigners so... What exactly are you saying What % of us though actually watch his streams? Most of us these days have jobs during the day and want to spend time with our families/kids/hobbies in the evenings when you come back from work. Not many of us actually will be watching FlaSh stream. Even if the entirety of TL were to boycott FlaSh's stream, his viewership numbers would barely even change. | ||
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