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What's so special about the army Choco-pie?
On May 09 2023 00:34 pheer wrote:
As soon as Soma goes to army... only geriatrics left then... lmao
I thought being called a boomer was bad enough, but Calm took it up a notch ahahah
@jinjin5000: thank you for your translation as always! Somehow I find that the Korean pros are really funny and entertaining
one small thing, the position of the subtitles is too far at the bottom of the video that it is covered by the youtube progress bar 
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The zerg struggle is real, it is a fragile race, a single drop ship can win a game like a good recall. I think if zerg had a lot of production in the main like T or P, then newly created units would be able to defend drops. M&M move outs can win, a single storm can get a massive clump of hydras, it's tough. I do not agree with the queuing sentiment, but I do agree you do need to think about what you're going to use your larva for
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On May 09 2023 06:06 Peeano wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2023 04:31 KameZerg wrote:On May 09 2023 04:08 Peeano wrote:
Queuing comment is kinda bs. Zerg have the best system for that. Busy microing and then you can suddenly make 3 units at once. BOOM. Not skipping a beat. It's much better than queuing 3 non-worker units. You have to look all around the map to make units, terran and toss can just look at their main. What do you mean? 5sh6sh7sh8sh9sh0sh = Dead Protoss 
This.
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![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/jaaG2z5.png)
OFC terrans would miss the good quote...
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On May 10 2023 01:18 JieXian wrote:What's so special about the army Choco-pie? Show nested quote +On May 09 2023 00:34 pheer wrote:
As soon as Soma goes to army... only geriatrics left then... lmao I thought being called a boomer was bad enough, but Calm took it up a notch ahahah @jinjin5000: thank you for your translation as always! Somehow I find that the Korean pros are really funny and entertaining one small thing, the position of the subtitles is too far at the bottom of the video that it is covered by the youtube progress bar
if i put it any higher, it seems to cover pros faces.
Already issue with bigger subs tho
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but... zerg is the easiest :p
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Zerg did win won 3 ASLs in a row in 2020-2021, a couple of them even with Flash playing.
Nothing changed in the game balance, only maps and meta did.
Were the maps in the last few seasons very bad for Zerg?
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On May 10 2023 21:27 ZeroByte13 wrote:
Zerg did win won 3 ASLs in a row in 2020-2021, a couple of them even with Flash playing.
Nothing changed in the game balance, only maps and meta did.
Were the maps in the last few seasons very bad for Zerg?
Part of it is all the Terrans began sharing their knowledge/meta shift tactics with each other and seriously started to research without hiding their secrets and all. Spearheaded by Light and really helped to improve overall Terran performance even on prior low performers. This really isn't common on other races where they tend to keep their know-hows secret while Light openly tells to point other progamers claim he helps "way too much without hiding"
Other is the zergs all collectively pretty much went out of form. Only Soma mains at top 10 right now on top of only one really driving meta shifts on zerg side.
There is also some blame onto spongames slowing down to due to massive drain that is daily proleague where money is focused on.
Honestly this ASL overall wasn't favored for Terran mapwise from community consensus yet it ended in tvt finals
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On May 09 2023 08:45 Shinokuki wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2023 08:17 TMNT wrote:
A lot of tongue in cheek stuff, but the bit about Soma going to the army is actually true though. JD Queen Hero are all 33 now and declining. Soulkey only one year younger but unmotivated (he doesn't practice much).
But it's not like the Terrans are much younger though. I feel like if top Korean BW continues for 2-3 years and Royal goes to the army as well, no one can match Snow and Mini. They are the two youngest players who already fulfilled military service.
It's also the maps. Mapmakers started adding ridiculous simcity for toss/terran to simcity their nat, 1 gap wall for zealot to go in, cannona'ble naturals, and wide open choke for zergs to defend. Result? only soma performing decently. 80 IQ toss and whiny terrans need to give in and comply with possible extinction of zergs.
You must be new here, without a simcity in your nat pvz is basically just about fighting endless waves of hydra busts over and over. Unless you want to move into pre 2008 or so era when every pvz was a forced 1v2 base play. Just look at the results from ASL with the maps you complain about, imagine maps with open wide naturals.
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On May 12 2023 15:26 Malongo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2023 08:45 Shinokuki wrote:On May 09 2023 08:17 TMNT wrote:
A lot of tongue in cheek stuff, but the bit about Soma going to the army is actually true though. JD Queen Hero are all 33 now and declining. Soulkey only one year younger but unmotivated (he doesn't practice much).
But it's not like the Terrans are much younger though. I feel like if top Korean BW continues for 2-3 years and Royal goes to the army as well, no one can match Snow and Mini. They are the two youngest players who already fulfilled military service.
It's also the maps. Mapmakers started adding ridiculous simcity for toss/terran to simcity their nat, 1 gap wall for zealot to go in, cannona'ble naturals, and wide open choke for zergs to defend. Result? only soma performing decently. 80 IQ toss and whiny terrans need to give in and comply with possible extinction of zergs. You must be new here, without a simcity in your nat pvz is basically just about fighting endless waves of hydra busts over and over. Unless you want to move into pre 2008 or so era when every pvz was a forced 1v2 base play. Just look at the results from ASL with the maps you complain about, imagine maps with open wide naturals.
You must be the one who is new. You don't know the current meta of tvz do you and how terran is able to get away with teching on 2 marines with nat simcity. For PvZ, the simcity is relatively same as 2016~2022 era, its just that it's harder for zerg to snipe forge when doing 973. The biggest struggle is where there are lot of gaps in nat where toss can put 1 zlot in and only 1 ling can hit it, causing z to make more lings than usual. Nowadays if zerg goes overpool first it's considered a loss build. They try to go 12 hat to overcome this so mapmakers have added in nat where toss can easily cannon rush if z wants to do that. Can you please look at the meta and actually hit 2300 MMR before you talk?
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This is the first time I hear someone complaining about nat sim city in PvZ that Zerg can only hit with 1 ling at a time.
Like, what do you even want?
And by the way, if you ling rush you're supposed to hit the gateway, not the zealot.
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On May 12 2023 19:16 TMNT wrote:
This is the first time I hear someone complaining about nat sim city in PvZ that Zerg can only hit with 1 ling at a time.
Like, what do you even want?
And by the way, if you ling rush you're supposed to hit the gateway, not the zealot.
He is not talking about Sim city. He is talking about certain places where protoss can put the zealot and lings can only fight 1 by 1. For example on Sylphid natural and the mineral only there is small gap to do this. On vermeer and Polypoid you can do this aswell.
I totally agree that the new maps make it really easy to wall and to help canon rushing. In the past you could be really agressive vs terran with zerglings. Now every map offer almost a perfect Sim city to hold 6 lings with 1 scv 1 marine.
Sim city is not something new but atleast in the past there was a balance with the maps that you could do it as perfect as now.
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On May 09 2023 02:53 Highgamer wrote:
From a Terran perspective it's interesting to hear them whine talk about the downside of the larva mechanic (which is well known of course, but still as a reminder), like that your decisions on what to build now can come back to haunt you soon after, more so than with the other races who can at least cancel and switch the production. Even more than that, Zergs' lack of a unit-queue for when you're busy microing never really occured to me.
Of course here they don't point out the strengths that come with it, like the possibility of quick tech-switches and sudden mass-unit production, and that you save money and space because you don't have to build so many production buildings.
Zerg macro mechanics is far more forgiving than queue-based T/P macro. As long as a Hatch isn't sitting there for a prolonged period with three larvae, the efficiency and unit count losses from the occasional macro hick-up are comparatively minimal. Your unit are just out a bit later, as opposed to just not at all if you miss a macro cycle as P or T. What's really hard is actually hitting Terran bio macro cycles consistently.
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On May 13 2023 01:39 Freakling wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2023 02:53 Highgamer wrote:
From a Terran perspective it's interesting to hear them whine talk about the downside of the larva mechanic (which is well known of course, but still as a reminder), like that your decisions on what to build now can come back to haunt you soon after, more so than with the other races who can at least cancel and switch the production. Even more than that, Zergs' lack of a unit-queue for when you're busy microing never really occured to me.
Of course here they don't point out the strengths that come with it, like the possibility of quick tech-switches and sudden mass-unit production, and that you save money and space because you don't have to build so many production buildings. Zerg macro mechanics is far more forgiving than queue-based T/P macro. As long as a Hatch isn't sitting there for a prolonged period with three larvae, the efficiency and unit count losses from the occasional macro hick-up are comparatively minimal. Your unit are just out a bit later, as opposed to just not at all if you miss a macro cycle as P or T. What's really hard is actually hitting Terran bio macro cycles consistently.
Rofl. you play a lot of zerg for sure. Tell me something. Imagine you are doing a basic 3 hatcheries mutalisk vs terran and is time to make the 9 mutas. But u press the wrong key and you build drones or scourges. Totally 9 larvas on that. Tell me how forgiving is that. The most easy thing to do is click gateways or barracks to build your units.. As a zerg you need to constantly build the right units (not only units) to no loss larvas in the process.
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Netherlands4987 Posts
How do you press D or S instead of M as a mistake when you know you have 9 larvae selected (and Spire just completed)?
You just deserve to lose if you do that lol
Not being able to cancel drones when you need fighting units is the only valid point made in that video. In return you get to delay macroing up to 3 larvae while microing. Zergs are lucky. If you ever played BGH or FMP you know that is an insane macro advantage. Queuing Ultras at worker speed... Imagine for a moment building BCs or carriers at that rate with your CCs or Nexuses. Absolutely bonkers.
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Free Map hack
Best harrasing unit in the game
Best basic unit in the game
Best Late game unit in the game
Easiest/shortest match ups
most number of cheeses that actually work
most number of all in builds that work, some people even call 973 standard, LOL
most number of unorthodox strategies
fastest units
zergs please...
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On May 13 2023 02:03 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2023 01:39 Freakling wrote:On May 09 2023 02:53 Highgamer wrote:
From a Terran perspective it's interesting to hear them whine talk about the downside of the larva mechanic (which is well known of course, but still as a reminder), like that your decisions on what to build now can come back to haunt you soon after, more so than with the other races who can at least cancel and switch the production. Even more than that, Zergs' lack of a unit-queue for when you're busy microing never really occured to me.
Of course here they don't point out the strengths that come with it, like the possibility of quick tech-switches and sudden mass-unit production, and that you save money and space because you don't have to build so many production buildings. Zerg macro mechanics is far more forgiving than queue-based T/P macro. As long as a Hatch isn't sitting there for a prolonged period with three larvae, the efficiency and unit count losses from the occasional macro hick-up are comparatively minimal. Your unit are just out a bit later, as opposed to just not at all if you miss a macro cycle as P or T. What's really hard is actually hitting Terran bio macro cycles consistently. Rofl. you play a lot of zerg for sure. Tell me something. Imagine you are doing a basic 3 hatcheries mutalisk vs terran and is time to make the 9 mutas. But u press the wrong key and you build drones or scourges. Totally 9 larvas on that. Tell me how forgiving is that. The most easy thing to do is click gateways or barracks to build your units.. As a zerg you need to constantly build the right units (not only units) to no loss larvas in the process.
if i was as dumb as eonzerg is I would kill myself
User was warned for this post
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On May 13 2023 13:13 JustTooJuicy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2023 02:03 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:On May 13 2023 01:39 Freakling wrote:On May 09 2023 02:53 Highgamer wrote:
From a Terran perspective it's interesting to hear them whine talk about the downside of the larva mechanic (which is well known of course, but still as a reminder), like that your decisions on what to build now can come back to haunt you soon after, more so than with the other races who can at least cancel and switch the production. Even more than that, Zergs' lack of a unit-queue for when you're busy microing never really occured to me.
Of course here they don't point out the strengths that come with it, like the possibility of quick tech-switches and sudden mass-unit production, and that you save money and space because you don't have to build so many production buildings. Zerg macro mechanics is far more forgiving than queue-based T/P macro. As long as a Hatch isn't sitting there for a prolonged period with three larvae, the efficiency and unit count losses from the occasional macro hick-up are comparatively minimal. Your unit are just out a bit later, as opposed to just not at all if you miss a macro cycle as P or T. What's really hard is actually hitting Terran bio macro cycles consistently. Rofl. you play a lot of zerg for sure. Tell me something. Imagine you are doing a basic 3 hatcheries mutalisk vs terran and is time to make the 9 mutas. But u press the wrong key and you build drones or scourges. Totally 9 larvas on that. Tell me how forgiving is that. The most easy thing to do is click gateways or barracks to build your units.. As a zerg you need to constantly build the right units (not only units) to no loss larvas in the process. if i was as dumb as eonzerg is I would kill myself
This just show very few people replying on this topic play zerg at all.
On top of that you all taking my example literally. My point was to show that if you make a missclick as a zerg when building units you are getting punish for it by not having the option to make more units. While as a protoss or Terran you can actually cancel your unit and fix your mistake.
When you play zerg in order to make units you need to press the number of the hatchery then the key to open the menu and then the unit. So there is just no way any other race make it harder to produce units. When you play zerg u cant let 3 larvas floating for to long or u already losing 1 larva x hatchery each time u let this happen. Something that as a protoss or Terran u dont have this issue.
So not zerg macro is not more forgiving at all than other races.
Im happy you are not dumb as me and we can read your amazing comments on this forum.
^_^
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On May 12 2023 16:11 Shinokuki wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2023 15:26 Malongo wrote:On May 09 2023 08:45 Shinokuki wrote:On May 09 2023 08:17 TMNT wrote:
A lot of tongue in cheek stuff, but the bit about Soma going to the army is actually true though. JD Queen Hero are all 33 now and declining. Soulkey only one year younger but unmotivated (he doesn't practice much).
But it's not like the Terrans are much younger though. I feel like if top Korean BW continues for 2-3 years and Royal goes to the army as well, no one can match Snow and Mini. They are the two youngest players who already fulfilled military service.
It's also the maps. Mapmakers started adding ridiculous simcity for toss/terran to simcity their nat, 1 gap wall for zealot to go in, cannona'ble naturals, and wide open choke for zergs to defend. Result? only soma performing decently. 80 IQ toss and whiny terrans need to give in and comply with possible extinction of zergs. You must be new here, without a simcity in your nat pvz is basically just about fighting endless waves of hydra busts over and over. Unless you want to move into pre 2008 or so era when every pvz was a forced 1v2 base play. Just look at the results from ASL with the maps you complain about, imagine maps with open wide naturals. You must be the one who is new. You don't know the current meta of tvz do you and how terran is able to get away with teching on 2 marines with nat simcity. For PvZ, the simcity is relatively same as 2016~2022 era, its just that it's harder for zerg to snipe forge when doing 973. The biggest struggle is where there are lot of gaps in nat where toss can put 1 zlot in and only 1 ling can hit it, causing z to make more lings than usual. Nowadays if zerg goes overpool first it's considered a loss build. They try to go 12 hat to overcome this so mapmakers have added in nat where toss can easily cannon rush if z wants to do that. Can you please look at the meta and actually hit 2300 MMR before you talk?
Stop making a fool of yourself, no half decent player is going to complain about wallable/simcity nats being unfair in 2023.
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EPT
