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On March 14 2023 02:49 EndingLife wrote:
What is the annual prize pool total for players vs annual amount ZZZero is requesting from viewers for hosting BSL full time?
There were 2 BSLs in 2022:
BSL14 - prize pool: $5000
BSL15 - prize pool: $4000
Total BSL prize pool for 2022: $9000
Zzzero is asking for $2500 a month, so that comes to $30000. That's 3.3X annual BSL prize pool.
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On March 14 2023 03:42 bochs wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2023 02:49 EndingLife wrote:
What is the annual prize pool total for players vs annual amount ZZZero is requesting from viewers for hosting BSL full time?
There were 2 BSLs in 2022: BSL14 - prize pool: $5000 BSL15 - prize pool: $4000 Total BSL prize pool for 2022: $9000 Zzzero is asking for $2500 a month, so that comes to $30000. That's 3.3X annual BSL prize pool.
Minus taxes.
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On March 14 2023 03:47 LUCKY_NOOB wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2023 03:42 bochs wrote:On March 14 2023 02:49 EndingLife wrote:
What is the annual prize pool total for players vs annual amount ZZZero is requesting from viewers for hosting BSL full time?
There were 2 BSLs in 2022: BSL14 - prize pool: $5000 BSL15 - prize pool: $4000 Total BSL prize pool for 2022: $9000 Zzzero is asking for $2500 a month, so that comes to $30000. That's 3.3X annual BSL prize pool. Minus taxes.
Isnt BSL a company? So not necessarily taxes.
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On March 14 2023 04:08 MeSaber wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2023 03:47 LUCKY_NOOB wrote:On March 14 2023 03:42 bochs wrote:On March 14 2023 02:49 EndingLife wrote:
What is the annual prize pool total for players vs annual amount ZZZero is requesting from viewers for hosting BSL full time?
There were 2 BSLs in 2022: BSL14 - prize pool: $5000 BSL15 - prize pool: $4000 Total BSL prize pool for 2022: $9000 Zzzero is asking for $2500 a month, so that comes to $30000. That's 3.3X annual BSL prize pool. Minus taxes. Isnt BSL a company? So not necessarily taxes.
I count patreon's cut in that too.
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On March 14 2023 00:43 sas.Sziky wrote:
One thing everyone should understand, listen AGge:D: Chinese players actually progamers( progamers who is can living by games ) + they 100x can practice the game more easily. Europe players cant living by sc and cant play sc at the moment( bad vpn). I don't have any advantage over other eu players, they have same oportunity as me. and guys over the B rank there is no game. ( lot of A, low S rank player stopped the play for a last 1-2 years). but all ok of course :D
On March 14 2023 01:02 maybenexttime wrote:
Your argument is based on a false premise. You're saying that ZZZero is asking for an extraordinary compensation for a product that is not extraordinary by any measure. I'm pointing out that the compensation he's asking for is not extraordinary in any way.
And, please, don't tell me that earning "the double amount of the average upper class wage" in a given country is not getting rich... It suggests that he's aiming to be a top 5% earner or something when, in fact, he's aiming for a median income for his age bracket.
Okey I will try to explain my point of view as simple as I can.
You have a product that you sell for free but you get donations wich gives you the opportunity to keep developing your product without you having to take too much from your own pockets. Everything is running smoothly even with the other products on the market that is intertwined with your product. You have staff group that are helping you and alot of passion within the group that keeps the product intact.
Now your product starts growing, you can see a vision, a dream that you can make a living out of this product. People from all over the globe are also interested in your product and lets say your product reaches a peak of 1000 people. You start looking for investors and people starts shipping in money to make your dream come true.
You make a decision to quit your regular job, in hope of within a year being able to make a full living out of the product. Wich means most of the money being shipped in has to pay your wage so you can survive, wich means the development of the product stagnates until then.
Now the problems with running a business becomes clear.
You have an issue with a part of the market (Dandy) and you decide to cut that part lose, but now 150 people also loses interest in your product. You then reach out to a new market (China) that creates competition for your product, but now another part of the market (EU) doesnt like your interaction with the new location because it feels like your product is bleeding invested money from that market (EU) to the new one (China). The new market (CHina) on the other hand is having a positive effect on your product for the remaining 850 interested people.
But if you cut the new market lose now the competition you created might make you lose even more people that is showing interest in your product. And the problem is still you dont make enough money from the product to be able to make a living from and also generating enough money to develop it. And the biggest issue is that you havent been able to sign any steady sponsors or companies that want to invest, you still rely on private persons to invest from their own pockets in your product. Wich makes the whole business very fragile.
Now the banning of Dandy (a market), that situation itself lost BSL aprox 200 viewers on youtube (from my pov), I dont know how many on live twitch streams but prolly 100-200 viewers. The banning I stand by, but this just shows how fragile the foreign community is if you only have 1000 viewers to gamble with.
You remove the chinese players (another market) from BSL, that might even further make viewers stop watching. And BSL still wants to reach as many viewers as possible so the income from youtube and twitch becomes steady, but atm it doesnt generate enough or any(?) money, so BSL still has to rely on patreon payments.
You can compare these games:
Bonyth vs Dewalt in BSL15 grand finals, 611 views
Dewalt vs Mihu in BSL14 grand finals, 1400 views
Dewalt vs Zhanhun BSL14 semifinals 2800 views
Bonyth vs Terror BSL12 Grand finals 4212 views
Bonyth vs Terror BSL11 Grand finals 1400 views
The interest in top chinese players vs top EU players is way bigger than the finals of two EU players.
Now this is just my observation and analysis of this current situation. I wouldnt have done it this way, but I'm also too chicken to even think about going for my dream. So I really want this to work for ZZZero, but in 1 year he shouldve maybe showed what he is doing at his work hours. Has he been trying to get more sponsors? Is he reaching out to eSport fund? Is he planning on investing in Pro league casters? what is the plan if he reaches the amount he's asking for?
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On March 14 2023 03:42 bochs wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2023 02:49 EndingLife wrote:
What is the annual prize pool total for players vs annual amount ZZZero is requesting from viewers for hosting BSL full time?
There were 2 BSLs in 2022: BSL14 - prize pool: $5000 BSL15 - prize pool: $4000 Total BSL prize pool for 2022: $9000 Zzzero is asking for $2500 a month, so that comes to $30000. That's 3.3X annual BSL prize pool.
That's quite off.
The total is much closer to $15,250+ (I might've missed some) + merch in 2022. That includes the BSL16 ladder tours that were played in 2022, BSL 2v2 and other off-season events.
Even not counting off season events (as those had at least one other sponsor), it was at least $6300 + merch for BSL15 and $5650 + merch for BSL14 (unless I missed some events).
+ Show Spoiler +During 2022:
BSL16: 3x 100 Open Ladder Tours, 3x Merch Chobo Ladder Tours
BSL15: 4000 PL, 500 GL, 500 Asia, 500 Europe, 500 NA (+ 755 additional funding from NA), 500 Europe, 2x 100 Open Ladder Tours, 2x 50 Crazy Funny Ladder Tours, 2x BSL T-Shirt with nickname & flag Chobo Ladder Tours
BSL14: 5000 PL, 150 GL, 100 Announcement invitational, 100 Super Gosu Showmatch (Dewalt vs Mihu), 3x 100 Open Ladder Tours, 3x Merch Chobo Ladder Tours
Races championship: 1000
BSL 2v2: 1000
BSL Surprise Tournament: 500
Merch given to Gosu/Hasu/Chobo League
On March 14 2023 00:04 iRk-AGge wrote:There was way more passion behind BSL,an eagerness to become better, the admin session on BSL server was alive, now it's all quiet. Last post was a month ago.
To be fair, there is a very active admin channel that staff members cannot see.
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I think this is more of a covid story more than anything, people were staying home during covid (2020 and 2021) so the view count/prize pool got inflated, now it's normalizing back to average.
We can't act like those numbers are the avg benchmarks we should be hitting as a community, 2020 and 2021 were exceptions, not the norm. Basically the expectations are a bit unrealistic imo, it gave this perception that the scene is growing much faster than it really is.
BW is still a marathon, not a race. The only way to grow this game long term (in a self sufficient way) is from the ground up w/ the community fully engaged. And for that you can't rely on Blizzard, the day the community understands this is the day we'll actually start building something real.
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@AGge
I appreciate the effort, but I don't understand why you're talking about the viability BSL as a business. My critique was regarding how you framed ZZZero's financial incentives, i.e. "ZZZero would like us to pay him double the average upper class earnings in Poland". As I pointed out, that is not even remotely close to the truth.
Edit: I'm not sure you grasp just how ridiculously off the numbers you cited were. In 2023, the minimum salary in Poland is around 3500 PLN. According to your post, earning 50% more than the minimum wage puts you in the upper class in Poland, and earning 3x the minimum wage puts you solidly in the upper class.
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guys, since many of you already criticize ZZZero and are much smarter than him make better pls! NO? What a surprise. Then pls help if u like the BSL and foreign bw your money, your play, your cast, your admin and etc find sponsor and etc don't be smart, it won't help.
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On March 14 2023 05:24 sas.Sziky wrote:
guys, since many of you already criticize ZZZero and are much smarter than him make better pls! NO? What a surprise. Then pls help if u like the BSL and foreign bw your money, your play, your cast, your admin and etc find sponsor and etc don't be smart, it won't help.
https://store.steampowered.com/app/2012510/Stormgate/
Ez a leendő testvér.
Amikor kijön, adj neki mindent.
User was warned for this post
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Russian Federation376 Posts
good old bw drama 
![[image loading]](https://decider.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/silicon-valley-d-2.jpg)
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On March 14 2023 05:21 maybenexttime wrote:
@AGge
I appreciate the effort, but I don't understand why you're talking about the viability BSL as a business. My critique was regarding how you framed ZZZero's financial incentives, i.e. "ZZZero would like us to pay him double the average upper class earnings in Poland". As I pointed out, that is not even remotely close to the truth.
Edit: I'm not sure you grasp just how ridiculously off the numbers you cited were. In 2023, the minimum salary in Poland is around 3500 PLN. According to your post, earning 50% more than the minimum wage puts you in the upper class in Poland, and earning 3x the minimum wage puts you solidly in the upper class.
I'm not sure if u missunderstand me deliberately, or if my english is just so bad that u dont understand my point.
The information I got might be off, the numbers might be wrong, if so im sorry. Anyhow my point is still that IMO BSL havent changed that much from when it was hosted for free with donations compared to now when the community pays 18 000€/year for it to be hosted. Or if the community pays 29 000€/year.
Because right now BSL doesnt generate enough money for ZZZero to be able to make a living from it if it's the minimum wage, average wage, upperclass wage, it doesnt matter. His bills are larger than the income from the community, hence the video. I dont think ZZZero intends to become rich from this, i've never said that. I simply made an example based on the information I got, and I am sorry if that was wrong. Ofcourse supporting a family compared to being alone also is different. 6000PLN for a single person might be a great wage, while the same amount for a whole family is not enough. I understand that as well. Again, I am sorry if I was wrong. But BSL becomes a business when you decide to make it your main income source. And people investing in the business might want some kind of transparency if they are to keep investing in long term. You look at the cast with Machine and Razz, on Razz webcam there is the xsplit vcam logo that shows he uses the free version. The chromakey isnt set correctly so half his head is sometimes missing and then the chair fades in and out. Then all of a sudden Machines webcam disappears, and by the end of the cast a picture of him with a glass of wine appears instead. My point is there is no investment in the product.
Just compare these two:
BSL season8. good webcams, flawless chromakeys. good colors and "it almost looks like it's a real studio". At least that what my girlfriend said when I showed this to her when she looked real quick.
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/kAnm7QH.png)
Then current BSL16, colors havent been corrected, chromakeys havent been set correctly. It just looks sloppy.
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/6sDzmkf.jpg)
And this is my point, the production havent become greater now that this is run as a full time job.
IMO, in my opinion, I think focusing on BSL and make better content, developing it so it looks more professional, so maybe companies wants to invest and sponsor it. And get more viewers that normally dont watch SC but like good production would go and watch it on youtube. But that is just my opinion. We need to find other ways to get funds for BSL and ZZZero so he can keep his dream alive, but I really dont think there is enough viewers to support the funds needed and definitely not long term.
Now it's the BSL fanbase that keeps watching, but it doesnt look like BSL generates many views from the outside. So more tournaments probably won't generate more views on youtube if the BSL15 grand finals wich is the top of the top cant get more than 600 views. Maybe there should be bloopers and other stuff produced as well that maybe generates views from a different viewerbase on youtube.
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YouTube is my preferred platform for viewing vods, if viewership helps Zzzero I'd love to go there. However, there's always a huge delay in vods available on YT vs actual BSL progress.
For example, the lastest vod available on YT as of now is BSL16 ro8 Mihu vs Zhanhun. That was played on 2/25, so more than 2 weeks ago. All the vods from games played last weekend & the weekend before aren't there yet. This is certainly not helping viewership if Zzzero wants to be serious about it.
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I agree that this"wallpaper" idk the correct word need to change asap. That was my 2 cents as a relatively recent comer to bw. Its a small but Real put off.
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On March 14 2023 05:40 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2023 05:24 sas.Sziky wrote:
guys, since many of you already criticize ZZZero and are much smarter than him make better pls! NO? What a surprise. Then pls help if u like the BSL and foreign bw your money, your play, your cast, your admin and etc find sponsor and etc don't be smart, it won't help. https://store.steampowered.com/app/2012510/Stormgate/Ez a leendő testvér. Amikor kijön, adj neki mindent.
i hope storm won't be in it 
The first picture AGge really much better o.o
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My only complaint is that i didnt like this format as i dont think the inferior players have a chance to win.
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EPT
