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On March 14 2023 05:04 TT1 wrote:
I think this is more of a covid story more than anything, people were staying home during covid (2020 and 2021) so the view count/prize pool got inflated, now it's normalizing back to average.
We can't act like those numbers are the avg benchmarks we should be hitting as a community, 2020 and 2021 were exceptions, not the norm. Basically the expectations are a bit unrealistic imo, it gave this perception that the scene is growing much faster than it really is.
BW is still a marathon, not a race. The only way to grow this game long term (in a self sufficient way) is from the ground up w/ the community fully engaged. And for that you can't rely on Blizzard, the day the community understands this is the day we'll actually start building something real.
I think thats a decent take. On thing of note is that not only viewership numbers might be inflated, but also the monetary values. There was much more money to go around. Right now it seems we are entering more difficult times so it will probably be even harder to support the 20/21 level of monetary pledges to BW in one form or another.
That said i would be interested to know what specificially you envision whenyou say "we will actually start building something real". What do you have in mind ? Software ? Community ? More viewer engagement, what exactly is it ?
On March 14 2023 15:03 MeSaber wrote:
My only complaint is that i didnt like this format as i dont think the inferior players have a chance to win.
I agree, BSL is boring because the best zerg in the obserable universe (tm) (JULIA) has no chance to win it KAPPA.
On March 14 2023 05:40 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2023 05:24 sas.Sziky wrote:
guys, since many of you already criticize ZZZero and are much smarter than him make better pls! NO? What a surprise. Then pls help if u like the BSL and foreign bw your money, your play, your cast, your admin and etc find sponsor and etc don't be smart, it won't help. https://store.steampowered.com/app/2012510/Stormgate/Ez a leendő testvér. Amikor kijön, adj neki mindent. 
Maybe, maybe not. As far as i am concerned there has been no (not ANY) actual footage of the gameplay. All we have seen is 2 screenshots. I think its absolutely possible that this game will dump hard.
Also i think there is a strong search for nostalgia and the "good old times", thats why games like Heroes 3 and Age of Empires 2 (even before Redbull claimed it) were/are popular. And the gameplay definitely is above and beyond Starcraft 2...imo.
Also consider that even if the game is "good" in general, you might still like it less than brood war and do you really want to commit a lot of hours to a "game" that you not really enjoy, even if it brings in money ?
LASTLY, consider that a lot of people from all RTS games will probably jump to Stormgate as long as it has money in it, so competition might be fierce. So fierce in fact, that even top brood war players might be not be top "new game x" players.
One more point.
Brood War is love, Brood War is life,
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On March 14 2023 04:49 iRk-AGge wrote:
[ but now another part of the market (EU) doesnt like your interaction with the new location because it feels like your product is bleeding invested money from that market (EU) to the new one (China). The new market (CHina) on the other hand is having a positive effect on your product for the remaining 850 interested people.
Is that the official EU statement on the matter? Cuz I counted 3 ppl from the US and 3 ppl from EU who were against Chinese participation.
Also I've been told by another tournament organizer that people from SA just donate directly to their players instead foreign tournaments. So even if your viewer numbers are correct, if BSL wasn't getting any donations from SA then it makes sense. Nobody but ZZZero knows the real numbers for BSL. I trust he puts great thought before he makes decisions and doesn't make em lightly.
I hear OBS is great: https://obsproject.com
I fixed that image for you too.
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/qfyQntL.jpg)
I hope BSL continues to happen and improve, try new things, etc...
^_._^
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On March 14 2023 18:14 LUCKY_NOOB wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2023 04:49 iRk-AGge wrote:
[ but now another part of the market (EU) doesnt like your interaction with the new location because it feels like your product is bleeding invested money from that market (EU) to the new one (China). The new market (CHina) on the other hand is having a positive effect on your product for the remaining 850 interested people.
Is that the official EU statement on the matter? Cuz I counted 3 ppl from the US and 3 ppl from EU who were against Chinese participation. Also I've been told by another tournament organizer that people from SA just donate directly to their players instead foreign tournaments. So even if your viewer numbers are correct, if BSL wasn't getting any donations from SA then it makes sense. Nobody but ZZZero knows the real numbers for BSL. I trust he puts great thought before he makes decisions and doesn't make em lightly. I hear OBS is great: https://obsproject.com I fixed that image for you too. I hope BSL continues to happen and improve, try new things, etc... ^_._^
Thx for fixing the picture! 
Really hated to have it as an example, but I had to explain my point somehow.
Ofc it's not an official statement. It was an explanation of my point of view. Basically that we have so few viewers that every viewer actually counts.
I think everyone that has a chance of claiming a piece of the prizepool is probably against the Chinese participation.
But what they dont add to the equation imo is that the chinese players brings something different to the league, and for us viewers they bring a totally new player base that can compete with our best players. And our best players actually has to make an effort to reach Ro8 now. So for the competition it's good, but for keeping the small amount of prizepool money within EU/SA/NA it's probably bad.
And yes, SA fans are very loyal to their own players, but the SA community is also very large, so it means hundreds of viewers, wich in the end might generate more money from youtube and twitch. Not everything should have to stand and fall with donations/Patreons imo.
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On March 14 2023 19:18 iRk-AGge wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2023 18:14 LUCKY_NOOB wrote:On March 14 2023 04:49 iRk-AGge wrote:
[ but now another part of the market (EU) doesnt like your interaction with the new location because it feels like your product is bleeding invested money from that market (EU) to the new one (China). The new market (CHina) on the other hand is having a positive effect on your product for the remaining 850 interested people.
Is that the official EU statement on the matter? Cuz I counted 3 ppl from the US and 3 ppl from EU who were against Chinese participation. Also I've been told by another tournament organizer that people from SA just donate directly to their players instead foreign tournaments. So even if your viewer numbers are correct, if BSL wasn't getting any donations from SA then it makes sense. Nobody but ZZZero knows the real numbers for BSL. I trust he puts great thought before he makes decisions and doesn't make em lightly. I hear OBS is great: https://obsproject.com I fixed that image for you too. I hope BSL continues to happen and improve, try new things, etc... ^_._^ Thx for fixing the picture! Really hated to have it as an example, but I had to explain my point somehow. Ofc it's not an official statement. It was an explanation of my point of view. Basically that we have so few viewers that every viewer actually counts. I think everyone that has a chance of claiming a piece of the prizepool is probably against the Chinese participation. But what they dont add to the equation imo is that the chinese players brings something different to the league, and for us viewers they bring a totally new player base that can compete with our best players. And our best players actually has to make an effort to reach Ro8 now. So for the competition it's good, but for keeping the small amount of prizepool money within EU/SA/NA it's probably bad. And yes, SA fans are very loyal to their own players, but the SA community is also very large, so it means hundreds of viewers, wich in the end might generate more money from youtube and twitch. Not everything should have to stand and fall with donations/Patreons imo.
IDK how many players are depending on that money of winning BSL. (5 different people have taken the big 1st place money prizes and 2 more different have won 2nd place in big prize pools ($1K for first or above)
You can have a BSL China qualifier and put 1 player if the other participants think this is fair.
There's always a compromise to be found IF it's a big issue.
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As I mentioned in an earlier post, Chinese players choose to participate in BSL mostly for the sake of making friends with the foreign community. Monetary wise, the prize they make from BSL only constitutes a tiny fraction of their total income. Competition wise, they have regular matches against top SK players (yes, they let their prize pool bleed to SK players), and they improve skills a lot faster playing with them than BSL players.
Some Chinese players are already on the fence to participate, e.g., qiaogege was in BSL14, but he decided not to participate in 15 due to latency & jetlag. He joined again in 16. Busterran, AFAIK has decided to pull out due to latency after playing one season. Other top players, e.g. Jedi, AP, etc have never participated.
If BSL sets up a China qualifier and only allows one to advance, it might be simpler to outright nominate Mihu. But Mihu is the biggest threat to the BSL prize pool. Oh well, might as well just ban all of them.
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EPT
