EPTDoes it show you everything (so nothing is under the fog of war) including the entire mini-map?
Antihack idea - Page 3
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Cambium
United States16368 Posts
Does it show you everything (so nothing is under the fog of war) including the entire mini-map? | ||
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Cambium
United States16368 Posts
On September 04 2007 14:51 MarklarMarklar wrote: I'm pretty sure you can create your own screencapturing function. Yes, you can. What I wanted to emphasize was that if you could do it, the hack could also do it. All the hack has to do is to listen to the event that triggers the screen-capturing method, and turn off the hack when that happens... | ||
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MarklarMarklar
Fiji1823 Posts
AND EVEN IF THEY DO manage to hide it, it will capture where they are looking on the map, which means even if you turn it off you will still see him looking at a black area serveral times during the game. | ||
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Cambium
United States16368 Posts
On September 04 2007 15:07 MarklarMarklar wrote: i'm not a programmer but.. if you always use the trigger (multiple times per second) then can they turn it off/on all the time? Maybe 10 times a second and only keep 0.5 of the screens(randomized), 1 every 2 seconds. AND EVEN IF THEY DO manage to hide it, it will capture where they are looking on the map, which means even if you turn it off you will still see him looking at a black area serveral times during the game. If you keep your finger on your PrtScn button the entire game, your game will be slowed down. By the same logic, if you keep on taking screenshots and discarding most of them, you are effectively slowing down your game. And it definitely takes more resources to take the screenshots than toggling the map hack. Even if you see a black screen, it does not necessarily mean that the person is a hacker. For instance, I click the dark areas before I use my scan... There are countless reasons why someone may have nothing but black on there screen. As well, since you are only taking a very small set of screenshots, it's more likely than not that the hacker is looking at something that he should be able to see. Now, to comment on something that many have already commented: the validation process. I don't see a easy way around this validation process except humans. You can probably verify the screenshots taken during early game more easily (still very difficult and requires a lot of advanced image processing) with a program because, if the minimap shows the enemy's base without a grey area leading to it, then the player hacks. Or if the area shown is much bigger than a scouting unit's sight area, then it's likely that the player hacks (what if it's a fast pool rush, worker rush...). Once it gets into mid- or late-game, I'd say it's almost impossible to tell whether the player is hacking from the picture alone, the replay then needs to be analyzed to see whether hack is actually used. | ||
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haduken
Australia8267 Posts
Lets assume that a program is made based on ur idea of randomising screen shot capture. The problem here is that NOTHING in a computer program is truely randomised. All the hacker needs to do is figure out the seeding value and then time the hack accordingly (which isn't very hard). There is no point in making a seperate screencapturing function unless you want to save the file like a mini-vod and that is unviable due to the size and people are already saving first person vods. | ||
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MarklarMarklar
Fiji1823 Posts
And haduken, yes maybe. But how will they hide the fact that they are looking at a certain part of the map at a given time? it WILL capture that. edit and cambium stop posting HUGE posts on technical aspects you seem to be at least as clueless as me on. | ||
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haduken
Australia8267 Posts
What ever solution you comes up with, you are required to at certain timeframe of program execution to save pic on to a harddrive which requires HD I/O which is the slowest internal operation of any computer. | ||
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Black Pearl
United States21 Posts
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Aurious
Canada1772 Posts
In all honesty good idea HARD to implement. EDIT: The only thing this would be good for is proving YOU don't hack. | ||
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MarklarMarklar
Fiji1823 Posts
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MarklarMarklar
Fiji1823 Posts
On September 04 2007 15:47 Black Pearl wrote: I think it would be a great idea to take information about mini map, but not in screen - in other ways programming like code or sth. We have old bwchart or RepASM4, where we can see APM or listing of actions so ... why no implement info about mini-map ? well it would be amazing if you could capture a players minimap actions, and completely follow how its used thruout a game. But is that possible? | ||
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haduken
Australia8267 Posts
On September 04 2007 15:44 MarklarMarklar wrote: Cambium considering that normal print screen takes a high quality screenshot of 150kb-250kb, there is a difference i'm sure in taking a picture smaller than 5kb in very low quality. It shouldnt be demanding at all... And haduken, yes maybe. But how will they hide the fact that they are looking at a certain part of the map at a given time? it WILL capture that. edit and cambium stop posting HUGE posts on technical aspects you seem to be at least as clueless as me on. Doesn't bwtv or whateva it was called do that already? every replay file it saved is something like 2mb. but i see ur point. the problem is keeping the screenshots truely randomised which isn't possible in present day computers. if it isn't randomised then its given that a pattern or a function is followed then a counter-measure is also a given. maybe we can distribute the program and update the randomization variable every once in a while. ~_- who knows... from a programmer's view, the implementation is not hard at all, maybe it would work. | ||
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haduken
Australia8267 Posts
On September 04 2007 15:47 MarklarMarklar wrote: I'm pretty sure you wont have to write it to your harddrive til the game is over. then how do you purpose to save it then? i was understand the impression that some kinda of centralised server is retrieving the pics during a game. that is just a bad idea. if not then i don't really see the point of the program when so many previous programs does the same thing. | ||
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a-game
Canada5102 Posts
apparently when bnet detects your hack it will give you a loss on your record even if the game is ums or if you won in the other game modes. it's pretty primitive but if bnet is detecting the hacks and adminstering losses to those who cheat, couldnt we develop something to use what their doing? | ||
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MarklarMarklar
Fiji1823 Posts
On September 04 2007 15:54 haduken wrote: then how do you purpose to save it then? i was understand the impression that some kinda of centralised server is retrieving the pics during a game. that is just a bad idea. if not then i don't really see the point of the program when so many previous programs does the same thing. nono, that concept was just if lets say a ladder like iccup would implement it. I'm just brainstorming. | ||
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haduken
Australia8267 Posts
On September 04 2007 15:49 MarklarMarklar wrote: well it would be amazing if you could capture a players minimap actions, and completely follow how its used thruout a game. But is that possible? i think you would need the brood war API and substantial support/help from blizzard to do this without making the task astronomical. this is why people who at www.bwprogramming.com give up because it is simply too much work for a few guys with sparetime to do. | ||
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Cambium
United States16368 Posts
On September 04 2007 15:44 MarklarMarklar wrote: Cambium considering that normal print screen takes a high quality screenshot of 150kb-250kb, there is a difference i'm sure in taking a picture smaller than 5kb in very low quality. It shouldnt be demanding at all... And haduken, yes maybe. But how will they hide the fact that they are looking at a certain part of the map at a given time? it WILL capture that. edit and cambium stop posting HUGE posts on technical aspects you seem to be at least as clueless as me on. You said you would take ten in a second (I don't know what you mean by "take", probably means writing them to disk somewhere and deleting all but one), it is a lot of extra processing regardless how big they are. And also, you can't just "take" a lower quality version of the screenshot (unless you write your own algorithm, of course) with the BW print screen function. In order to shrink it, you would have to process it to make it smaller. Ten times a second is a lot of unnecessary processing time. And nothing in my previous posts had technical details (except the keyPress), anyone could understand them. And just fyi, I am a software developer... edit: And you still haven't addressed my concerns about the validation process... | ||
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MarklarMarklar
Fiji1823 Posts
On September 04 2007 15:57 haduken wrote: i think you would need the brood war API and substantial support/help from blizzard to do this without making the task astronomical. this is why people who at www.bwprogramming.com give up because it is simply too much work for a few guys with sparetime to do. Well if that's the case then i guess minisceenshots of the minimap is a better solution for BROODWAR. However, maybe blizzard could implement it for starcraft 2? to cambium: i didnt actually use real numbers. I just wanted anyone who has the programming ability to come along and say whats possible and whats not. so lets say you take 2 every seconds then how possible is it? I'm sure you dont have to take a screenshot of the ENTIRE screen! Only the required area which is about 130x95pixels ![[image loading]](http://img104.imageshack.us/img104/6682/untitled1vw2.jpg) 811byte in lowest quality from photoshop and at 100% quality its 3.2kb big. That shouldnt be too big a problem. | ||
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Cambium
United States16368 Posts
On September 04 2007 16:02 MarklarMarklar wrote: Well if that's the case then i guess minisceenshots of the minimap is a better solution for BROODWAR. However, maybe blizzard could implement it for starcraft 2? to cambium: i didnt actually use real numbers. I just wanted anyone who has the programming ability to come along and say whats possible and whats not. so lets say you take 2 every seconds then how possible is it? I'm sure you dont have to take a screenshot of the ENTIRE screen! Only the required area which is about 130x95pixels 811byte in lowest quality from photoshop and at 100% quality its 3.2kb big. That shouldnt be too big a problem. If you don't use the print screen function that BW provides, you would have to write everything from scratch, which would require a ton of work, and I have nothing more to argue. Only then can you actually take a section of the screen. edit: If you write your own little thing to take the screenshot from scratch (through w/e means), the hack won't know when the screenshot is taken, and everyone is happy. | ||
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haduken
Australia8267 Posts
Even a perfect anti-hack is only going to last 6months at most. i think the most blizzard or any company can do without spending too much is have strong procedure for discouragement, prevention and even prosecutation of hacking. | ||
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