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On June 27 2021 22:14 theaGOny wrote:
This is what u get with this generation... There are so many people out the trying to advice you to invest in different crypto now. And people often take their word for it, instead of just spend 2 minutes on google search about the different cryptos that they have been adviced to buy. And when they do buy these shitcoíns that they have been lured into buying, dont infact MOON as they want it to. They blame the people who adviced them about it, instead of blaming themself. Do your research before ANY investment, there are no certain investment, ever! So if ur not man/woman enough to take the hit from UR investment, dont do it! Very simple, but instead they come crying on the internet because they didnt get rich from some shitcoin who was meant to MOON.
This coin hasn't released to public yet, but rather insider trading before planned public release.
Its not illegal in terms of coins but dishonest
Also bisu released this announcement after they announced more investor names will be released...
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LOL at the people who considered that this could possibly be a "legitimate" coin. 99% of them are pump and dump schemes with the rare exception of the ones backed by scientists, whitepapers and open source technology stacks. Quite sure your man "Suit" is not reinventing the blockchain here dudes.
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On June 26 2021 19:11 oxKnu wrote:
there are hundreds of millions of repulsive, contemptible and greedy characters running around this world each and every day.
You are absolutely right & correct. Welcome to earth 2021. This might be my new sig thanks
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It feels like it almost doesn't particularly matter what the details are. What really matters is that these streamers' fans feel betrayed, and this is something that will hurt their reputation in the long term.
When people see money, they stop thinking critically. Especially when cryptocurrency is involved because of how ridiculously profitable it can be. I think there's a serious case to be made that they were fooled by a sharp looking businessman who gave them the impression that this is a normal way to conduct investments. Especially when they're a well known figure.
In the end I don't think anything "serious" will happen to them. They likely won't be prosecuted for anything. It's also actually not uncommon for coins to have private initial investment rounds. There's a reason why there are so many of these random coins and it seems like there's new ones every day: it's a tool for rich people to get richer, and that requires cash injections from the public. When things like this happen, that's just made all the more clear.
All that being said, people like Flash and Bisu should really have thought longer and harder about what they were doing. Don't shill random coins to people, and if you do you need to disclose everything. People are right to complain.
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51439 Posts
On June 27 2021 22:06 Ziggy wrote:
this is why we cant have nice things
on a side note how do i get into kartrider
the second longest lasting esport in korea after brood war
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It's still a rapidly developing story with new information coming out every few hours.
Like jinjin said, there are a bunch of streamers involved, so if any of them end up revealing the content of their conversations with Suit, we'd have a better idea of how this investment opportunity may have been pitched to them all.
I think it's important to not overestimate the financial literacy of the streamers/BW pros involved.
Crypto has been hot topic on Afreeca for several months now and there were a ton of folks, including streamers that were otherwise gaming streamers, doing Crypto trading streams.
I can't say for sure about Flash/Bisu, but it was very obvious how little many of the other Afreeca streamers knew about how Crypto actually works and where it's value is actually derived from, but Crypto trading/discussion streams have definitely been a trendy thing to do, and to be fair, most have been transparent about the fact that they really don't fully understand it.
Not trying to disparage anyone, but it also might be important to consider the general level of education of the parties involved as well.
Sea jokes often about how he majored in Gaming at Sejong Cyber University and didn't receive much of an education.
I don't think that Bisu, Flash, Britney, or Geumchi have college degrees.
Also important to consider that Suit spent several months donating to streamers across Afreeca categories, guesting on streams as well, in what in retrospect seems to have been an attempt to "groom" the community, gaining credibility and earning the trust of most of the major streamers.
I'm not trying to make excuses for the BW pros involved, just giving some additional food for thought.
It's possible that they fully understood the extent of what they were getting involved in, but it's also possible that the way that this was pitched to them made them believe that it was a legitimate investment opportunity (like Dada_ mentioned above), not a scheme to exploit their viewer base.
Hopefully we can get some more details, so that we can know for sure whether they had malicious intent or if they were just a bit too ignorant/gullible.
Neither is good, but I think that the former is obviously a lot worse than the latter.
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On June 27 2021 14:09 TT1 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2021 13:08 Dante08 wrote:
I don't get the fuss, if Flash mentioned to do your own due diligence before buying and don't invest money you can't lose I don't see what's wrong. Elon Musk raves about Dogecoin all the time, if you lose money buying it can you blame him? Can you definitely say Elon is pumping and dumping?
morals (and thus immoral acts) are viewed much differently in the East relative to the West, there's a pretty big cultural difference
Sorry to derail, but I have to say this is really not true. Basic stuff like not lying for personal gain is universal to all cultures. There isn't anywhere in the world where scamming people for money is acceptable behavior (not saying this is or isn't what the streamers were doing), only places where unacceptable behavior is more common than other places due to various socioeconomic factors. There are plenty of real differences between collectivistic and individualistic cultures, but we tend to mystify other cultures as if they're fundamentally different at the moral level, when that's not actually the case.
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On June 28 2021 10:50 reincremate wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2021 14:09 TT1 wrote:On June 27 2021 13:08 Dante08 wrote:
I don't get the fuss, if Flash mentioned to do your own due diligence before buying and don't invest money you can't lose I don't see what's wrong. Elon Musk raves about Dogecoin all the time, if you lose money buying it can you blame him? Can you definitely say Elon is pumping and dumping?
morals (and thus immoral acts) are viewed much differently in the East relative to the West, there's a pretty big cultural difference Sorry to derail, but I have to say this is really not true. Basic stuff like not lying for personal gain is universal to all cultures. There isn't anywhere in the world where scamming people for money is acceptable behavior (not saying this is or isn't what the streamers were doing), only places where unacceptable behavior is more common than other places due to various socioeconomic factors. There are plenty of real differences between collectivistic and individualistic cultures, but we tend to mystify other cultures as if they're fundamentally different at the moral level, when that's not actually the case.
(fyi i'm saying this is taken more seriously in the East)
If you think about it logically, culture and values certainly have to be different in 1 race nations relative to multi race nations, simply because of the difference in impact that govs. also have. Asian nations implement much more aggressive policies (which in turn creates cultural differences), this isn't a myth. For example, look at the development that nations like Singapore (Lee Kuan Yew) have made in a short period of time. That was done through a rapid (relatively speaking) change in culture by the government and implementation of a meritocratic system.
also these are quantifiable things.. for example, you can compare the difference in penalties for certain crimes
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While a lot of things are similar in cultures the amount that they take stuff seriously and the (generally social) consequences can be way way different. What might actually increase you reputation in one country can end you career and get you blacklisted from work in another country. Also generally Asian countries care way more about reputation and there's a lot more consequences. See how an Asian country reacts to a business scandal and what happens tot he people involved compared to the US generally.
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Cheating scandal, Cheating scandal² and now Crypto scandal. Well done Korea!
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On June 28 2021 10:44 zmfxms wrote:
It's still a rapidly developing story with new information coming out every few hours.
Like jinjin said, there are a bunch of streamers involved, so if any of them end up revealing the content of their conversations with Suit, we'd have a better idea of how this investment opportunity may have been pitched to them all.
I think it's important to not overestimate the financial literacy of the streamers/BW pros involved.
Crypto has been hot topic on Afreeca for several months now and there were a ton of folks, including streamers that were otherwise gaming streamers, doing Crypto trading streams.
I can't say for sure about Flash/Bisu, but it was very obvious how little many of the other Afreeca streamers knew about how Crypto actually works and where it's value is actually derived from, but Crypto trading/discussion streams have definitely been a trendy thing to do, and to be fair, most have been transparent about the fact that they really don't fully understand it.
Not trying to disparage anyone, but it also might be important to consider the general level of education of the parties involved as well.
Sea jokes often about how he majored in Gaming at Sejong Cyber University and didn't receive much of an education.
I don't think that Bisu, Flash, Britney, or Geumchi have college degrees.
Also important to consider that Suit spent several months donating to streamers across Afreeca categories, guesting on streams as well, in what in retrospect seems to have been an attempt to "groom" the community, gaining credibility and earning the trust of most of the major streamers.
I'm not trying to make excuses for the BW pros involved, just giving some additional food for thought.
It's possible that they fully understood the extent of what they were getting involved in, but it's also possible that the way that this was pitched to them made them believe that it was a legitimate investment opportunity (like Dada_ mentioned above), not a scheme to exploit their viewer base.
Hopefully we can get some more details, so that we can know for sure whether they had malicious intent or if they were just a bit too ignorant/gullible.
Neither is good, but I think that the former is obviously a lot worse than the latter.
Ignorantia juris non excusat. Both in law, and imo also morally (the latter of which is more relevant, bc I don't think what has transcribed is illegal and punishable by law).
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On June 28 2021 12:34 TT1 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2021 10:50 reincremate wrote:On June 27 2021 14:09 TT1 wrote:On June 27 2021 13:08 Dante08 wrote:
I don't get the fuss, if Flash mentioned to do your own due diligence before buying and don't invest money you can't lose I don't see what's wrong. Elon Musk raves about Dogecoin all the time, if you lose money buying it can you blame him? Can you definitely say Elon is pumping and dumping?
morals (and thus immoral acts) are viewed much differently in the East relative to the West, there's a pretty big cultural difference Sorry to derail, but I have to say this is really not true. Basic stuff like not lying for personal gain is universal to all cultures. There isn't anywhere in the world where scamming people for money is acceptable behavior (not saying this is or isn't what the streamers were doing), only places where unacceptable behavior is more common than other places due to various socioeconomic factors. There are plenty of real differences between collectivistic and individualistic cultures, but we tend to mystify other cultures as if they're fundamentally different at the moral level, when that's not actually the case. (fyi i'm saying this is taken more seriously in the East) If you think about it logically, culture and values certainly have to be different in 1 race nations relative to multi race nations, simply because of the difference in impact that govs. also have. Asian nations implement much more aggressive policies (which in turn creates cultural differences), this isn't a myth. For example, look at the development that nations like Singapore (Lee Kuan Yew) have made in a short period of time. That was done through a change in culture by the government and implementation of a meritocratic system. also these are quantifiable things.. for example, you can compare the difference in penalties for certain crimes
My bad, hungover reading comprehension failure on my part. Thought you meant morality is different in the East relative to the West, rather than how morality is perceived.
All good points. It is pretty apparent the general public in SK hold public figures including streamers to significantly different standards than say, the US.
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On June 28 2021 17:15 JustPassingBy wrote:
Ignorantia juris non excusat. Both in law, and imo also morally (the latter of which is more relevant, bc I don't think what has transcribed is illegal and punishable by law).
Just a reminder for every new person reading this thread.
This is all just fan-drama from the afreeca community at its very core.
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You should seriously think about what TT1 has to say about Eastern morality (Confucian culture).
As a Korean, I totally agree with TT1's opinion.
In the worst case, the investment of companies sponsoring ASL and ASTL may be withdrawn.
In that case, ASL and ASTL are stopped.
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On June 28 2021 21:17 Cruiser0929 wrote:
You should seriously think about what TT1 has to say about Eastern morality (Confucian culture).
As a Korean, I totally agree with TT1's opinion.
In the worst case, the investment of companies sponsoring ASL and ASTL may be withdrawn.
In that case, ASL and ASTL are stopped.
Understandable, however someone ceasing sponsorship or requesting termination of contracts can be because of many reasons.
If the under-lying reason is the negative media caused by this scandal, that's fine. However not close to the Savior situation which had incriminating legal repercussions.
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On June 28 2021 12:34 TT1 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2021 10:50 reincremate wrote:On June 27 2021 14:09 TT1 wrote:On June 27 2021 13:08 Dante08 wrote:
I don't get the fuss, if Flash mentioned to do your own due diligence before buying and don't invest money you can't lose I don't see what's wrong. Elon Musk raves about Dogecoin all the time, if you lose money buying it can you blame him? Can you definitely say Elon is pumping and dumping?
morals (and thus immoral acts) are viewed much differently in the East relative to the West, there's a pretty big cultural difference Sorry to derail, but I have to say this is really not true. Basic stuff like not lying for personal gain is universal to all cultures. There isn't anywhere in the world where scamming people for money is acceptable behavior (not saying this is or isn't what the streamers were doing), only places where unacceptable behavior is more common than other places due to various socioeconomic factors. There are plenty of real differences between collectivistic and individualistic cultures, but we tend to mystify other cultures as if they're fundamentally different at the moral level, when that's not actually the case. (fyi i'm saying this is taken more seriously in the East) If you think about it logically, culture and values certainly have to be different in 1 race nations relative to multi race nations, simply because of the difference in impact that govs. also have. Asian nations implement much more aggressive policies (which in turn creates cultural differences), this isn't a myth. For example, look at the development that nations like Singapore (Lee Kuan Yew) have made in a short period of time. That was done through a change in culture by the government and implementation of a meritocratic system. also these are quantifiable things.. for example, you can compare the difference in penalties for certain crimes
Actually I feel Korea is an extreme outlier regarding things like these. Just look at how they treat their celebrities and how many of them mentione the huge public pressure they face over the tiniest things. I don't see this happening in other countries.
Either way the people there need to just chill and stop being keyboard warriors.
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On June 28 2021 21:52 oxKnu wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2021 21:17 Cruiser0929 wrote:
You should seriously think about what TT1 has to say about Eastern morality (Confucian culture).
As a Korean, I totally agree with TT1's opinion.
In the worst case, the investment of companies sponsoring ASL and ASTL may be withdrawn.
In that case, ASL and ASTL are stopped. Understandable, however someone ceasing sponsorship or requesting termination of contracts can be because of many reasons. If the under-lying reason is the negative media caused by this scandal, that's fine. However not close to the Savior situation which had incriminating legal repercussions.
I also don't think it's not nearly as bad as the Savior incident, but I do think the comparison is not as simple as comparing the severity of the actions. The scope matters, as do the (potential) victims.
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Fans have every right to be angry. It's quite amazing that some posters can spin the whole incident into just fan drama and keyboard warriors.
There doesn't need to have legal violations or financial consequences for them to have such reactions. The key thing here is Flash and co tried to gain profits off the pocket of (possibly) their fans in a dishonest manner. In the end no one actually lost anything, but the fact that they were aware of the fraudulent scheme and still willing to go with it remains.
There're a lot of things not legally punishable, but are still seriously condemned by society.
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On June 29 2021 00:28 TMNT wrote:
There doesn't need to have legal violations or financial consequences for them to have such reactions. The key thing here is Flash and co tried to gain profits off the pocket of (possibly) their fans in a dishonest manner. In the end no one actually lost anything, but the fact that they were aware of the fraudulent scheme and still willing to go with it remains.
Speaking of twisting things and making up your own information. In other parts of the world you would get sued out of your mind if you come out with these false statements.
At no point it is specified that the streamers knew exactly the extent of this scheme. From the information provided it seems that the main culprit is the 'Suit' person + plus his backers. Streamers were just being manipulated (for the info that we have) into investing into the new coin and promote it with any means they can (obviously since all of them are small-time influencers).
Now, they could be involved in it deeper than reported, however that hasn't been confirmed. And keep in mind that there were more than 15 streamers involved so very likely that some would have a larger role than others.
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