im pretty sure bisu was encompassing everything (dumb firing animations and dumb pathing), but if we limit the fixes to just the attacking portion, i think the buff would still be significant. i think youre underestimating how often dragoons can glitch out of an attack and how much attention has to be given to dragoons specifically because of this. if dragoons attacked as smoothly as hydras or tanks for example their overall dps would improve quite a bit. would make busts a lot easier or early game micro vs marines much easier for example. the added benefit of you being able to allocate a bit more apm to something else is always good (eg microing zealots in engages rather than microing the dragoons). also have to keep in mind dragoons without range upgrade suffers from this issue more and this would be a big buff to pre upgrade dragoons
On February 02 2021 21:58 2Pacalypse- wrote: I'm pretty sure Bisu just didn't fully understand what Blizzard was talking about. I have no idea why he would be so adamantly against fixing a bug where dragoons (and other units) occasionally get stuck and you need to press stop or hold position to get them moving again. This is something that pretty much never happens to pro players anyway, since they're much more diligent in controlling their units. Even non-pros have gotten pretty used to this bug and will have no big issues in working around it, but that doesn't make it any less annoying. So in the end, fixing this bug would most likely just have a positive impact on brand new players who haven't encountered it before, while having no negative impacts on higher skilled players.
I wouldn't be surprised if Bisu misinterpreted Blizzard where he thought they wanted to make dragoons less "stupid" in general, like when walking them down the ramps or through other tight spaces. That would indeed change the game significantly as it involves altering the pathing algorithm, something that probably shouldn't be tinkered with.
I agree. Just remove the annoying stop/hold bug. Not the general behaviour. But of course it would need proper testing before being added.
The goon fix would alter all other units too. Its fundamental code for many units, like marines, kind of any unit that has an animation for attacks. Learn to play the game instead of trying to "fix it".
We're listening to Flash retell a conversation from 5 years ago. We have no idea what Bisu's stance was other than he was against whatever was being proposed. Let's not sit here and assume we know exactly the conversation or what changes, and that Flash is remembering correctly.
On February 03 2021 04:10 SchAmToo wrote: We're listening to Flash retell a conversation from 5 years ago. We have no idea what Bisu's stance was other than he was against whatever was being proposed. Let's not sit here and assume we know exactly the conversation or what changes, and that Flash is remembering correctly.
On February 01 2021 05:55 jinjin5000 wrote:
original video is 3 years old, but its very relevant today.
On February 03 2021 04:10 SchAmToo wrote: We're listening to Flash retell a conversation from 5 years ago. We have no idea what Bisu's stance was other than he was against whatever was being proposed. Let's not sit here and assume we know exactly the conversation or what changes, and that Flash is remembering correctly.
On February 03 2021 04:10 SchAmToo wrote: We're listening to Flash retell a conversation from 5 years ago. We have no idea what Bisu's stance was other than he was against whatever was being proposed. Let's not sit here and assume we know exactly the conversation or what changes, and that Flash is remembering correctly.
original video is 3 years old, but its very relevant today.
hmmm i misread patching as pathing. still, 3 years old is still 2 years out. I'd say it's possibly unreliable narrator.
Blizzard specifically said dragoon/marine gum bug which is exactly what people here are talking about (stuck and stop attacking bug thing) I wasnt sure how to put it in English term.
Bisu disagreed saying any fix to dragoon pathing will break the unit to be way too good, including that
All of this is non-sense. If the game was in the hands of a capable company they would have a test realm where they could let pro-players test these changes before rolling them in the official game.
On February 02 2021 21:58 2Pacalypse- wrote: I'm pretty sure Bisu just didn't fully understand what Blizzard was talking about. I have no idea why he would be so adamantly against fixing a bug where dragoons (and other units) occasionally get stuck and you need to press stop or hold position to get them moving again. This is something that pretty much never happens to pro players anyway, since they're much more diligent in controlling their units. Even non-pros have gotten pretty used to this bug and will have no big issues in working around it, but that doesn't make it any less annoying. So in the end, fixing this bug would most likely just have a positive impact on brand new players who haven't encountered it before, while having no negative impacts on higher skilled players.
I wouldn't be surprised if Bisu misinterpreted Blizzard where he thought they wanted to make dragoons less "stupid" in general, like when walking them down the ramps or through other tight spaces. That would indeed change the game significantly as it involves altering the pathing algorithm, something that probably shouldn't be tinkered with.
The dragoon freeze bug plays a big role when trying to goon micro (decision making wise), he probably thought fixing it would be too big of a buff. It's the same thing with scarab duds, targeting workers with reavs is an art. It's all about the angling and whether or not you wanna go for the juicy center connection or the safer connection on the edges/closer to the reav.
A "small" change for an extremely versatile unit like the dragoon could end up throwing everything out of whack. That said, I'm all for changes that improve our QoL if it doesn't have an impact on gameplay, such as adding an SC2-esque fog of war etc.
I'm glad the pros knew what Blizzard is like nowadays and that even suggesting it or recommending it would turn out to be terrible. Blizzard is not the Blizzard of old and this has been the case for years now so I wouldn't trust them to release constant well-thought out balance patches, assuming that the game actually needs a patch.
On February 03 2021 06:10 oxKnu wrote: All of this is non-sense. If the game was in the hands of a capable company they would have a test realm where they could let pro-players test these changes before rolling them in the official game.
Flash is a clever boy ! And he's not alone. I despise Blizzard as a company because of their practices anyway. This is just confirmation people understand a lot more than the companies would like them to.
Ah, we should make statues of those 8 progamers, what they did was truly monumental. Even if they did it for the shameful reason of their personal greed the result is that the game is preserved and that is laudatory.
On February 03 2021 06:10 oxKnu wrote: All of this is non-sense. If the game was in the hands of a capable company they would have a test realm where they could let pro-players test these changes before rolling them in the official game.
On February 02 2021 21:58 2Pacalypse- wrote: I'm pretty sure Bisu just didn't fully understand what Blizzard was talking about. I have no idea why he would be so adamantly against fixing a bug where dragoons (and other units) occasionally get stuck and you need to press stop or hold position to get them moving again. This is something that pretty much never happens to pro players anyway, since they're much more diligent in controlling their units. Even non-pros have gotten pretty used to this bug and will have no big issues in working around it, but that doesn't make it any less annoying. So in the end, fixing this bug would most likely just have a positive impact on brand new players who haven't encountered it before, while having no negative impacts on higher skilled players.
I wouldn't be surprised if Bisu misinterpreted Blizzard where he thought they wanted to make dragoons less "stupid" in general, like when walking them down the ramps or through other tight spaces. That would indeed change the game significantly as it involves altering the pathing algorithm, something that probably shouldn't be tinkered with.
It makes sense, Bisu has no incentive to make protoss easier because that only removes the leg up he has on other protoss players. The more the playing field is leveled the less he stands out. It's in his best interest to keep the skill floor as high as possible.
EPT
