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Holylight
Korea (South)460 Posts
At least until your like 220-250 + APM, then it doesn't matter that much anymore, and is more a personal preference. It's funny how some people say "APM doesn't matter" when pro-team coaches time and time again say how important it is and all the pros (don't mention Fisheye) in general have high APM. Anyways, I'm not gonna turn this into an APM discussion (maybe I already did though...) Excercises like this are very good to get your speed up | ||
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Owl
145 Posts
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o3.power91
Bahrain5288 Posts
On May 20 2008 04:19 Owl wrote: ill tell you best practice watch reps and play normal games ( not some apm shits coz your not progamer and you dont need 300 apm coz you will prolly never have 300 apm without spamming its for pros)and youll get better when you play more games and you will understand more and know what to do in which situation Good point that not everyone can achieve 300 apm nonspam and that gaming exrience can help in real games. But then again this training isnt only for apm, but also for mechanics training such as macro. Also its always better to have higher non spam apm. Even if you know what to do, you need the ability to do it. Currently I'm trying to keep my apm above 200 and keep minerals below 500 except when im maxed (i usually hav lower than that when not maxed though; around 200 or so). This training so far has increased my "real game" apm from 100 to 150. I'm aiming to have above 200 apm in real games. In addition to that, my macro, micro, and multitasking has drastically improved from this practice. Thanks a lot blue iris  This practice's main disadvantage though is that its so different from real games in that real BOs arent necessary. Even though my mechanics are getting better, I'm gettin owned more often in real games. I'm plannin to get my mechanics higher first then get gaming experience from playing. | ||
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useLess
United States4781 Posts
On May 20 2008 04:19 Owl wrote: ill tell you best practice watch reps and play normal games ( not some apm shits coz your not progamer and you dont need 300 apm coz you will prolly never have 300 apm without spamming its for pros)and youll get better when you play more games and you will understand more and know what to do in which situation we all know this. but what help will knowing what to do when you dont having the timing sense or the speed to pull it off? | ||
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Holylight
Korea (South)460 Posts
On May 20 2008 04:19 Owl wrote: ill tell you best practice watch reps and play normal games ( not some apm shits coz your not progamer and you dont need 300 apm coz you will prolly never have 300 apm without spamming its for pros)and youll get better when you play more games and you will understand more and know what to do in which situation What exactly is this "spamming" you are speaking of? I think people uses it so vaguely without really thinking of what it means. "Spamming" also has uses, ie checking on your units and getting information, like if your opponent passes by some of your units, information you maybe would have missed if you wouldn't have checked (spammed? :/) on your units. Basically no good player with high APM spam away just to get high APM or whatever your talking about. There is a reason why people use alot of hotkeys and circle through them, something which you perhaps aren't good enough of a player to get. No offense I'm around 270-320 APM and if I would play slower I would miss out on so much stuff in my game and would play so much worse. I also play Terran and I think it requires more actions than let's say protoss in PvT and thus more APM; laying spider mines, siegeing/unsiegeing tanks, scanning, stimming etc. Where do you draw the line between "spamming" and "spamless" APM? Where do you draw the line between "pros" and "non-pros"? It's all too vague | ||
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eX-Corgh
Russian Federation386 Posts
Its not that hard, the biggest problem I've met is I can't yet maintain 300 APM every game. Sometimes I check BWchart and it shows only 270+, sometimes about 302. But my eAPM has started increasing. I usually had 130-140, but now 140+. Good exercise I think After a couple of weeks I think I'll be fully comfortable at 300 APM.Thanks BlueIriS :D | ||
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inlagdsil
Canada957 Posts
On July 09 2007 20:07 TheFoReveRwaR wrote: Why play against a computer though? Why not just focus on these things and play actual games at the same time? I guess when you are playing a computer, you don't care about winning or losing so there are no stress or distractions. Also, since it is easy and you don't need to play mind games, you can focus on what you are working on, your mechanics, without worrying about the other important parts of the game. | ||
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PobTheCad
Australia893 Posts
my hands get sore after 30 mins of that spamming crap | ||
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inlagdsil
Canada957 Posts
On May 20 2008 16:11 eX-Corgh wrote: OK I've tried this exercise today - played 5 games vs comp like that. Its not that hard, the biggest problem I've met is I can't yet maintain 300 APM every game. Sometimes I check BWchart and it shows only 270+, sometimes about 302. But my eAPM has started increasing. I usually had 130-140, but now 140+. Good exercise I think After a couple of weeks I think I'll be fully comfortable at 300 APM.Thanks BlueIriS :D For a while I would play the computer all the time and managed to reach 400 APM of mostly spam, but it was completely useless. After a break from starcraft, and then playing less often and against people, my APM is 150-180 but I am playing a lot better than when I spammed. High APM is good, but you have to increase your understanding of the game so that you know what to do with all those extra actions. I now feel the need for slightly higher APM and might take the advice of the OP to achieve it. | ||
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HeavOnEarth
United States7087 Posts
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gg_hertzz
2152 Posts
On May 20 2008 05:00 Holylight wrote: What exactly is this "spamming" you are speaking of? I think people uses it so vaguely without really thinking of what it means. "Spamming" also has uses, ie checking on your units and getting information, like if your opponent passes by some of your units, information you maybe would have missed if you wouldn't have checked (spammed? :/) on your units. Basically no good player with high APM spam away just to get high APM or whatever your talking about. There is a reason why people use alot of hotkeys and circle through them, something which you perhaps aren't good enough of a player to get. No offense I'm around 270-320 APM and if I would play slower I would miss out on so much stuff in my game and would play so much worse. I also play Terran and I think it requires more actions than let's say protoss in PvT and thus more APM; laying spider mines, siegeing/unsiegeing tanks, scanning, stimming etc. Where do you draw the line between "spamming" and "spamless" APM? Where do you draw the line between "pros" and "non-pros"? It's all too vague shows us 2-3 reps? I'm interested in how non-koreans achieve high apm. from my experience, no two APMs are created equal. One person's 300 apm does not equal another person's 300 apm even when you factor out things like strategy and game sense. i've seen many non-koreans get 300 apm but their macro can be no better than someone who has 220-240. as someone who averaged 270 for a long time I notice that my game was even better when I dropped down to 220. But I still would like to have the 300 apm, as long as it's not just not the numbers. so if you have some reps please share so that I may analyze. | ||
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gg_hertzz
2152 Posts
On May 20 2008 01:39 bosse wrote: Actually whats about goons against bersis. For example 2 gons against 4 normal bersis. How do you kill them ? Do you you Move / and stop or do you focus one on bersi and move and move? Other Question is about lets say 4 goons against 6 tanks /not sieged) is it possible to kill the tanks and when yes how ? Thanks alot for your answers ( Iam neewwbie )4 goons will die to 6 tanks when microed. they might even die to 4. depends on how well the terran micros. not how well you micro. | ||
thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
no two APMs are created equal. fucking love it lololol <3 It's pretty pointless to argue "this exercize fucking sucks and it's utterly pointless and harmful to your game", when many people have indicated that after committing to it for a bit, they did see noticible benefit from using it as a training tool. If you personally don't benefit from it after trying it out for a bit, then that's fine too - not everyone matches up to the same training methods in most things anyways. The general bashing seems a bit childish, esp when it's already been shown to have helped a good # of pple (not to mention the op saying "it might not be for everyone" iirc) | ||
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bosse
Germany3 Posts
Well Bersis = Zealots sorry about that. Its in the german Version Berserker=Zealot | ||
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Holylight
Korea (South)460 Posts
On May 20 2008 19:33 gg_hertzz wrote: shows us 2-3 reps? I'm interested in how non-koreans achieve high apm. from my experience, no two APMs are created equal. One person's 300 apm does not equal another person's 300 apm even when you factor out things like strategy and game sense. i've seen many non-koreans get 300 apm but their macro can be no better than someone who has 220-240. as someone who averaged 270 for a long time I notice that my game was even better when I dropped down to 220. But I still would like to have the 300 apm, as long as it's not just not the numbers. so if you have some reps please share so that I may analyze. Um, just get any rep of some gosu non-koreans? Most of them have APM in the higher areas. APM is just not macro, actually I would define it as "control" (however vague that may be). High apm usually means that you have a high level of control, meaning you can do alot of stuff at once, macro/micro, check on your units, react fast and so on. Many times faster players can simply outplay slower ones just because they can't keep up with the speed and the pace stuff is happening. Yeah someone with 240 apm can be better than someone with 300 of course, but 240 is in the "acceptable" range too. It's race dependant as well; toss players can have lower apm and still be on top of their game for instance. You know how pros almost always notice when their opponent passes by some of their units quickly, well that is due to APM in most cases since the reason they see it is because they flip through their units and it also keep them on their toes and they are ready to react fast as hell. On a funny sidenote, I wonder what APM Mondragon had in that game vs Dreiven where he totally missed his expo at 1. Quite the silly mistake at that level | ||
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o3.power91
Bahrain5288 Posts
On May 20 2008 23:15 bosse wrote: And what is about 5 goons against 5 tanks ? How do you attack the tanks? And how do you split the goons best ? And as fast as possible !? Thanks for your answers Well Bersis = Zealots sorry about that. Its in the german Version Berserker=Zealot TBH you cant solve that problem with this training alone. But with this training its gonna be 10 goons vs 5 tanks if u know what i mean  This training alone WILL NOT cause you to be No. 1 in icc in 3 weeks. This practice alone is to build mechanics and to improve macro and apm. Higher apm allows higher levels of multitasking and gives you the ability to use higher level strategies. Even if I was good enough to micro 5 goons vs 5 tanks, its useless in the long run if after the micro battle that i won OMG WTF I HAVE 3K MINERALS!!!111 Then out of nowhere your opponent comes up with 5 more tanks and you dont have the next 5 goons in line which were supposed to be building while you were microing. Sure micro can win battles. Sure you need to understand the game a lot better if you expect to reach at least B- on icc. This SC practice was meant not to train you to do that but to train you to be able to do that. Its no use knowing all the ins and outs of SC if you're not fast enough to do any of them. Edit: sry man, i thought u were complaining bout the practice  | ||
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o3.power91
Bahrain5288 Posts
On May 20 2008 17:34 PobTheCad wrote: so you played from 6am to 8pm with 300apm? my hands get sore after 30 mins of that spamming crap I felt that way when playing for an hour of 200 apm spaming I'm getting used to it | ||
ArC_man
United States2798 Posts
It's just like doing basketball exercises like in this video: You'll rarely do something like that in an actual game, but the exercises build solid mechanics that you can then incorporate into your game. | ||
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Chef
10810 Posts
Cycling through your army hotkeys (ie: 1234123412341234123412341234) is not useless spam, for one reason: when you're busy macroing your base, if you're spamming that at the same time, you'll respond much quicker than someone who isn't already spamming that. It takes away that second of thinking "Hey, I'm under attack, I should press 1, 1, to get to my army and start microing," because you're already pressing 1 before you've even though of it, so all you need to do is press 1, one more time (and since your mind is already on it from constantly spamming, this is faster too). Without cycling army hotkeys, I'm fairly certain that it's actually impossible to reach 300 apm. I know that it's the only way I can get up there, but usually I'm too lazy to do that outside of my first army, and end up with apms in the 150-200 range (which is enough to play the rest of the game fluently). | ||
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Holylight
Korea (South)460 Posts
I always jump around all over checking on shit. It gives me a sense of control and makes me play much better. Besides, like you say, you react so much faster when your cycling your hotkeys. | ||
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