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On November 30 2022 21:22 Liquid`Drone wrote:
You want him banned because he places his first pylon in a silly place?
This is a ladder for all skill levels. If you are half decent, you're going to be matched with people that aren't pretty frequently.
Hes C rank and should be able to place his first building in a good spot, yes, he deliberately plays bad.
Even you yourself said its a silly place so im glad you agree.
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Norway28904 Posts
It's a silly place but in no universe is this a bannable offense. I also don't agree that he is deliberately playing bad, which is your accusation. I mean maybe he is but trying to argue that based on this pylon placement is more silly than the pylon placement is.
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Well we can conclude its not an offensive move and neither a defensive move. So what is it? A silly move but with what purpose and how is it winnable? It looks very much like hes going to build gates far away from his main and in an awkward position that dont block incoming attacks and dont give any clear advantage over the regular placement which has many advantages.
At some point we need to identify when some just do stuff that doesnt help the team as its a team play server. People have been banned for similar moves that doesnt prove to help the team.
This imo is one of em. Its the first time i play him so cant tell if its re-occurring, if it is i feel sorry for his allies.
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Norway28904 Posts
If he is bad, his mmr will adjust and he will be teamed up with players that are better. The entire mmr system handles what you are complaining about. This pylon placement is silly - but it
is not hugely detrimental. Like, someone walling in wrongly is much worse than this. Someone building one sunken too early is worse than this. Someone not being active with units early on is worse than this - and sometimes, someone being active at the wrong time is also worse than this. Brood war is full of mistakes people can make that immediately lose the game if they're capitalized upon - this mistake isn't even of such a character, so it's a ridiculous one to focus on.
Anyway, better players get worse teammates, that's the entire point with this ladder.
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I disagree, in the cases you mentioned someone actually tried to play correctly.
His mmr was already adjusted and a C player. Do note C players are allowed to play SABC games, this should mean C players are somewhat knowledgable of the game if not they should be removed from SABC as thats seen as 'skilled'. Its always boggled my mind and is always a game breaker.
In cases of CDEF trying to play correctly or not it doesnt really matter as they are easy targets no matter what. Skill gap is too big in 'Ranked' matches
I also think C ranking got too big of a range to be a useful measurement. Someone at the top C rank is vastly superior to lower C. Maybe B rank should cover more of top C as they play just as good as B in many cases.
If C rank gets readjusted it would be wise to make CDEF server and SAB (with B covering top C rank). We would get more meaningful games where the skill gap isnt as large.
'Ranked' games will continue to be heavily unfair for both parties, in many games resulting in 2v2 rather than 3v3.
My opinions ofc. Your turn.
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Croatia9559 Posts
You're being ridiculous.
The only person who should be banned in that game is the person who left because they saw an unconventional placement of a pylon from their allies.
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On December 01 2022 07:18 2Pacalypse- wrote:
You're being ridiculous.
The only person who should be banned in that game is the person who left because they saw an unconventional placement of a pylon from their allies.
Well we are allowed to leave if we see stupid shit the first 5 mins iirc. If i had known beforehand i would have left pre-game ofc.
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Hio,
At the end of the day it's a fun ladder, I don't know of any ladder system where rank A and E, for example, play together. This is probably due to the number of players or was simply written like that (programming). Ban someone just because he builds his building somewhere else... you can ban 50% of the field right away because something like this happens to you on every rank lvl. The player just plays badly, is drunk, high, or wants to cheat, or whatever the reason. Also I don't see any other player who agrees with you and I don't think it will be changed just for you either, but you're welcome to program something and then you send it to Death. Let's see what happens 
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(Agree with 2Pacalypse and Liquid'Drone. I know both of you are S rankers. :p)
What a funny thread. ROFL.
No ones can ban a guy who builds in a different/creative/silly manner unless the purpose is to destroy games intentionally.
Otherwise, there will be hundreds of thousands of rules to set up, and for similar reasons, I would also request to ban A, B rankers if they build something in a different way which is not in my expectation.
I understand it's sometimes annoying, but it's still a doable action.
I echo what was said by LIquid'Drones - "The entire mmr system handles."
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Maybe High_Storm was high and thought he was at a different location.
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I don't think playing bad should be bannable either. UNLESS you noticed they join alot of games with same player and are trying to feed them points. Otherwise, everybody has bad games and good games.
For the most part its even. Very often my B teammate will lose game to a C teammate 1v1 which decides the game. Just keep playing and enjoy it. If you aren't enjoying it then don't play. Sometimes luck; races, positions, timing can decide everything also. StarCraft is a frustrating game.
This ladder would have been way more fun back in the early days of StarCraft... there was always a ton of BGH players so you would've been able to get more game more often and "S only games" for example. Still enjoy the bot though.
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![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/ed7Iapk.jpg)
he left after the game started. compctcr it's name
ban?
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On December 02 2022 11:54 Matias_SC wrote:he left after the game started. compctcr it's name ban?
Depends why he left. Did he say why? Did he say anything in lobby?
Leaving in-game without saying why is even worse and a more likely bannable offense IMO. Intentionally wasting peoples time by not leaving in the lobby when stated you are allowed to.
This guy is quite known for doing this in games outside bghmmr too.
As the rules stated a long time ago you are allowed to leave the game first 5 minutes if it doesnt suit your "needs" which is an odd rule to say the least, the rule probably exists because there isnt a deciding winning side until 5 mins has passed, meaning you can do whatever weird strat in that time and dont get punished for it.
Im not in favor of this rule at all, it just incentivices early ling rush and cannon rush or any other funky all-in. And if you cant do any fatal damage in that time you can just leave before 5 mins. Terrible rule.
These sorts of all-ins usually happen on a lower skill level because they cant cope with a long game. At these lower skill levels a cannon or ling rush can be devastating, making the rushing side a lot more favorable to win, which is why they happen in the first place. Its also why skilled players prefer playing higher skilled players to get away from this as its very easy to beat and causes a quick win, which on BGHmmr means a DRAW because its so quick.
IIRC if someone quits before 5 mins the whole game is DRAW no matter if you keep playing for half an hour. Correct me if im wrong.
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Norway28904 Posts
It just as much discourages ling rushes and cannon rushes as it encourages them, because teams that lose to either can just leave.
I do however agree that I don't like this rule. The 2 minute limit is as sensible as it gets for brood war.
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On December 02 2022 19:36 Liquid`Drone wrote:
It just as much discourages ling rushes and cannon rushes as it encourages them, because teams that lose to either can just leave.
I do however agree that I don't like this rule. The 2 minute limit is as sensible as it gets for brood war.
Well not necessarily. As the aggressor you always have the quit button at hand but for the opponent you never know when he will quit and you can cripple him as much as he will quit after 5 mins, this would then be a valid game. By some sense controlling his quit OR he stays because he believes in his team.
Most of the games i see people staying after being rushed, which is why i keep playing myself because its a valid game.
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You need to rework the lag system, it keeps complaining about laggers but doesnt resolve the issue before starting the game. Here is an image of what im talking about:
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/7Ic7nDy.png)
First it talks about Agraran which has already left or gotten kicked (which didnt lag for me btw, i joined earlier but Viejnho lagged so i dropped out before start, it did the same thing in that session, complained about Agraran but didnt resolve it before balancing and went to start the game). Correction: In a second game he did lag so yeah the lag-test is true. As for the message you could probably put it a one-liner to make it less spammy.
And then Viejnho who should be kicked for lagging, before starting but it doesnt resolve it. My recommendation here would be to quickly check if the guy lags with some rapid pinging and then make a quick decision, what it does currently is start the game with a lagger that needs to be quit and restarted.
In a full game you wouldnt want to wait a full minute for lag-tests (the lag-test might be even longer than that, it feels very far apart), it should be quickly resolved at that point, if player pressure is high (people fill the game quickly).
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Hi, in regard to your questions/suggestions:
1 Maverock and McRaYvEn got banned
2 Unvisioning counts as team change and is bannable
3 Playing bad or leaving one game in the beginning is NOT a cause for ban.
4 As for banning for lag: the system mostly works, but sometimes it takes a couple seconds for ban to complete. That's the reason why it might seem like bot is not doing anything. Also, with high lag, players you see in lobby might be different from what the bot sees. So that's the reason for wrong messages. At the end, however, all should work. The 4/3 message is indeed wrong.
5 As I said here, many times before, disconnected games don't count.
6 Thanks for reporting the bug with wrong picture.
7 As for the players from A and F playing together, I agree that it is unfortunate. But like I've said before, my ability to divide the players into subgroups is limited. However, now most games are either SABC or CDE, so it's not that bad. I might extend the period of SABC/CDE games during the day, but I doubt that dividing the league into 3 groups would work.
![[image loading]](https://i.imgflip.com/731p4l.jpg)
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Both the bot and me noticed this player shouldnt play because of lag (stable(?) long range connection) but the bot started anyway.
This is the probable bug im addressing with the lag system.
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On December 04 2022 19:09 MeSaber wrote:
Both the bot and me noticed this player shouldnt play because of lag (stable(?) long range connection) but the bot started anyway.
This is the probable bug im addressing with the lag system.
Ok, thanks for the report.
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EPT![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/X26SElD.png)
