EPTHere is an excel version with other builds (go to TvZ tab at the bottom)
Thanks to JinJin5000 for the translation of Flash's guide
TvZ - Flash's 5 Factory Goliath Build Order
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SCWes
Canada74 Posts
Here is an excel version with other builds (go to TvZ tab at the bottom) Thanks to JinJin5000 for the translation of Flash's guide | ||
Liquid`Drone
Norway28875 Posts
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iFU.spx
Russian Federation378 Posts
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Highgamer
1470 Posts
Why does the build (or mb mech TvZ in general) use plating first instead of attack upgrade? Because it's better against muta-bounce? Gols don't profit too much from attack first because of dmg types? | ||
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MeSaber
Sweden1235 Posts
On August 15 2019 00:53 Highgamer wrote: Thx Why does the build (or mb mech TvZ in general) use plating first instead of attack upgrade? Because it's better against muta-bounce? Gols don't profit too much from attack first because of dmg types? Zerg attacks are: 5 dmg ling. 10 dmg hydra. 9-3-1 dmg muta. All low dmg which would benefit Terran a lot of using Armor. Terran attacks are: 6 dmg marine (Weapon upgrade clearly is an advantage here as its low dmg), 12 dmg Goliath which doesnt benefit much from +1 dmg vs ground as it wont change the number of shots vs lings nor hydras (12*3= 36, 12*6= 72, 13*6= 78). Armor on the other hand vs Mutas remove 1 dmg per each attacks bounce. 9-3-1 becomes 8-2-0,5 . A +2 Armor increase to a total of 3 Armor would decrease Muta damage to 6-0,5-0,5. Making the bounce clearly worthless. As for battling Mutas it would be silly to not use this to your advantage. As when mutas becomes a solid 2-3 groups. They will only be able to kill the unit they aim on and not kill by bounce. Mutas vs Gols: 8+2+0,5= 10,5 total dmg. 7+1+0,5= 8.5... 6+0,5+0,5= 7... 10,5 to 8.5 to 7. A solid decrease of ~33% with +2 Armor(Total 3). Max upgraded Mutas and Gols: (Muta dmg: 12-4-1) = 8-0,5-0,5= 9... ~47% decrease in dmg. Edit: This also explains why Mutas are better off upgrading Armor instead. As the dmg part of air-upgrade is mostly Mutas and as you can see in a late game they would become worthless vs 4 armor and i would argue even vs 3 armor. You would be better off saving the Gas instead and find a way around with defiler/ling/hydra/ultras. | ||
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Liquid`Drone
Norway28875 Posts
expanding a tiny bit, armor is great vs everything for goliaths. unupgraded lings go from 4 to 3, mutas go from 8-2-0.5 to 7-1.0.5, hydras from 9 to 8. for lings this means 43 instead of 32 attacks, for hydras it's 16 instead of 14. | ||
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Highgamer
1470 Posts
edit: On second thought, couldn't one of you sit down and wrap it all up in one nice tutorial-video? 10 min max please, and no charts. And you can skip the bad matchups that don't involve Terran. | ||
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Jealous
10355 Posts
On August 15 2019 05:00 Highgamer wrote: Thx guys. One day I'll sit down and study the BW armor system, rest assured. edit: On second thought, couldn't one of you sit down and wrap it all up in one nice tutorial-video? 10 min max please, and no charts. And you can skip the bad matchups that don't involve Terran. Lmfao | ||
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MeSaber
Sweden1235 Posts
The lowest dmg that can be done is 0.5. This is also the dmg you take when you are matrix'd. Where 2 shots is 1 dmg. (The Matrix itself has no armor and 200 HP. With low enough dmg you could kill a unit before Matrix is destroyed, which would be 200 shots with 1 dmg, doing 99(.5) dmg to a unit.) A Marine vs Ling would be just addition/subtraction. Ghost vs Dragoon. Ghost do Concussive dmg meaning they do 50% final dmg vs Medium units and 25% final dmg vs Large units. Dragoons have Explosive dmg meaning they do 75% final dmg vs Medium units and 50% final dmg vs Small units. And with "final dmg" i mean the percentage is calculated last. Ghost +1 wep dmg = 10+1 = 11 * .25 (vs Dragoon(Large)) = 2.75 dmg. Do note the .75 part of the dmg wont show up on your first shot as you can only see integers in the game (whole numbers). The calculation in-game however do remember the fractional dmg and will be applied upon further shots towards the Dragoon. 2.75 * 3 = 8.25. You would see 8 dmg done and not 2.5 * 3 = 7(.5) dmg. This is also the case with Mutas bounce. A +1 attack upgrade gives 100% upgrade added to main attack, 33(.33)% upgrade to first bounce, and 11(.11)% upgrade to second bounce. For a total of 144.44% value of that +1 upgrade. So id say a video isnt necessary to explain this. It would only be good for empirical testing. Which unit is what Size and their dmg type:  Unit Statistics | ||
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Highgamer
1470 Posts
I was joking about the video obviously... I'm not one of those who think they could demand that everything is served on a silver plate here. But I do think that a large number of players, beginners or such who never really bothered to "study BW", would really appreciate a well made series about this, be it in video format or written with some well arranged charts/statistics. A tutorial that, like you do, also explains how the system works basically, but more importantly: One that quickly goes through the different matchups (so that people can chose theirs) and sums up why you do or do not build unit X against Y because of how their damage/armor interact, as well as exceptions, where you still build a certain unit as a counter to another for other reasons than the armor/damage-system. "Then sit down and do it yourself", weeeell...... edit: @SCWes Thx for sharing the excel-sheets. I hope TvP and TvT will get some love there some day, too. | ||
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MeSaber
Sweden1235 Posts
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