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On August 14 2019 12:35 AttackZerg wrote:
I dropped from low 1900s to low 1700s.
Is anyone else just getting brutalized?
I thought playing 20 games on iccup every few months kept me relevant-decent. Started playing on remastered this week, climbed to 1900s, switch happened and now I am getting leveled, by similar ranked people.
Is this everyone?
Same here, from 1900 to 1700ish, so many koreans now
I've run into multiple 1800 korean protosess that are unstoppable macro gods and look more like what I thought a 2200 player would look like
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On August 14 2019 12:35 AttackZerg wrote:
I dropped from low 1900s to low 1700s.
Is anyone else just getting brutalized?
I thought playing 20 games on iccup every few months kept me relevant-decent. Started playing on remastered this week, climbed to 1900s, switch happened and now I am getting leveled, by similar ranked people.
Is this everyone?
Yup. Facing Koreans 90% of games. A lot of them are 1600, 1700 MMR and they turn out to be macro gods. Virtually every Korean I've faced had solid mechanics.
My theory is that many of these players just leave match ups they don't like, and that's why they have low MMR (they essentially auto-lose 33% of their games). I've had a bunch of Koreans also leave because of lag right after game starts (they're used to TR24 so TR16 is laggy for them lol).
It's also possible that because the ladders have essentially been region locked before, their scale is just very different from ours. It's hard to believe 1600 being expected to be that good though.
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I still get very much lag on ladder. I'm located in Sweden, and i get connected with people too far away (peru, korea, etc). It was unpleasent on ICCup and it's unpleasent now...
Not only does it lag but people get mad and blame me for my "bad" (100/100 mbit fiber) internet connection.
I really don't understand why we cannot alter this stuff manually. For example, i woulnd't mind waiting a few minutes to get matched up with someone closer to me.
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On August 22 2019 23:11 StRyKeR wrote:
It's also possible that because the ladders have essentially been region locked before, their scale is just very different from ours. It's hard to believe 1600 being expected to be that good though.
It's still region locked, just now it matches a bit wider, but for example I don't ever get matched with players from Peru or Chile even though they're really close, probably because my connection is much better and I get matched with koreans all the time. So in that sense there are groups of people who basically only play each other and so the mmr can be all over the place. I've played 1100 mmr players that were okay (basic build order and micro), and 1600 players that were absolutely terrible (I attack with 3 marines and they don't even defend with workers, just roll over and die).
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On August 22 2019 23:11 StRyKeR wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2019 12:35 AttackZerg wrote:
I dropped from low 1900s to low 1700s.
Is anyone else just getting brutalized?
I thought playing 20 games on iccup every few months kept me relevant-decent. Started playing on remastered this week, climbed to 1900s, switch happened and now I am getting leveled, by similar ranked people.
Is this everyone? Yup. Facing Koreans 90% of games. A lot of them are 1600, 1700 MMR and they turn out to be macro gods. Virtually every Korean I've faced had solid mechanics. My theory is that many of these players just leave match ups they don't like, and that's why they have low MMR (they essentially auto-lose 33% of their games). I've had a bunch of Koreans also leave because of lag right after game starts (they're used to TR24 so TR16 is laggy for them lol). It's also possible that because the ladders have essentially been region locked before, their scale is just very different from ours. It's hard to believe 1600 being expected to be that good though.
It is possible that they are a bit lower than where they should be but still it would not be far off. I am having little trouble with the ~2000 koreans much less the 1600s. I think it was actually quite exaggerated how much better the korean ladder is in terms of comparative MMRs. For instance SuGo would say that 2300 on foreign ladder would equate to 2050 MMR on korean ladder. This is in no way true in my experience.
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1900 korean = 2000 foreigner, mb 2100 if zerg foreigner.
i think the difference varies between 100-150 mmr.
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On August 23 2019 00:40 XenOsky wrote:
1900 korean = 2000 foreigner, mb 2100 if zerg foreigner.
i think the difference varies between 100-150 mmr.
In the lower levels it looks like the koreans have a single build/timing per MU ( faced a player 3 times in a row and he did the same 3 times) but that timing is fairly sharp. Got destroyed the 1st game (i m now 1450/1500 vs 1350 guy) but defended well and crushed him in both other games, he had no followup or transition.
I only have about 20games vs korean so take that with a grain of salt.
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An 1800 non-kr protoss is a totally beatable opponent for me (mmr range 1780-1975 this season).
An 1800 kr protoss knows how to a harass + split map game - they know how to ration gas and build far superior army compositions and the control esp zealots/sair/shuttle/templar are just WAY better. Q-bert - from your posts I gather you are a strong player. I think your strength really changes your perspective.
1800 non korean 160-220 apm
the average korean I face is 280-480.
Hell the 2245 player I played, hellokittycat had an apm of 480.
There are major differences. Not complaining at all. But yeah, it is huge.
Faster, play-style emulating pro's rather then personalized less optimal builds, the list could go on and on, but there is a a mmr difference.
A 1600 feels the same, esp zvz.
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Attackzerg, I totally agree with you. Koreans of the same mmr as non-koreans (especially from C/B/A ranks) seem to have better fundamentals all around. They typically have stronger timings (due to knowledge of Korean meta), slightly better macro and multitask and in particular, significantly better unit control. For example, korean players usually have much better muta micro and drone micro than non-koreans, at almost any level I can think of.
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I have been living in Asia and playing in Korean server since a few months (after a 2/3 month BW break). My MMR in Europe was 21++, reaching low level S quite "easily" whenever playing for some time.
Vs Koreans I am 1900 to 2100 (peaking) and facing players with 1600/1700 MMR and 350 APM who just play really well. Whenever I get paired against a 1600 MMR guy I was used to play more relaxed and try more bullshit BOs, vs Koreans this is just not possible, you need to be focused even vs lower MMR guys, so that takes a toll on foreigners that, as me, I guess we aren't using to playing so "seriously" all the time.
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Just to add - Jaedongs starman account is only 2145 after 40-ish games.
Even beasts don't auto slingshot to 2300
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On August 23 2019 00:27 Q~Bert wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2019 23:11 StRyKeR wrote:On August 14 2019 12:35 AttackZerg wrote:
I dropped from low 1900s to low 1700s.
Is anyone else just getting brutalized?
I thought playing 20 games on iccup every few months kept me relevant-decent. Started playing on remastered this week, climbed to 1900s, switch happened and now I am getting leveled, by similar ranked people.
Is this everyone? Yup. Facing Koreans 90% of games. A lot of them are 1600, 1700 MMR and they turn out to be macro gods. Virtually every Korean I've faced had solid mechanics. My theory is that many of these players just leave match ups they don't like, and that's why they have low MMR (they essentially auto-lose 33% of their games). I've had a bunch of Koreans also leave because of lag right after game starts (they're used to TR24 so TR16 is laggy for them lol). It's also possible that because the ladders have essentially been region locked before, their scale is just very different from ours. It's hard to believe 1600 being expected to be that good though. It is possible that they are a bit lower than where they should be but still it would not be far off. I am having little trouble with the ~2000 koreans much less the 1600s. I think it was actually quite exaggerated how much better the korean ladder is in terms of comparative MMRs. For instance SuGo would say that 2300 on foreign ladder would equate to 2050 MMR on korean ladder. This is in no way true in my experience.
Depends on when you are playing. Lot of koreans know that most competitive players play around peak korean times (7pm-2am). I remember i reached 2150 on VPN playing outside that time and then played in that time frame and people there had superior skills. I went 0-7. It was just nuts how different it was. 1900 felt like 2100, 2100 felt like 2300. Sugo is partially right in that part.
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EPT
