Queue time is below 30 secs and i think MMR is being prioritized now (over location)? Haven't seen any patch notes yet.
New matchmaking algorithm (built in VPN)
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TT1
Canada9926 Posts
Queue time is below 30 secs and i think MMR is being prioritized now (over location)? Haven't seen any patch notes yet. | ||
Q~Bert
United States657 Posts
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hiro protagonist
1294 Posts
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TT1
Canada9926 Posts
On August 09 2019 13:35 hiro protagonist wrote: Sweet! This is a good thing right? TR20 is pretty good all things considered. TR16 is playable, anything below that is pretty bad tho. I think NA East/West coast get TR16~TR20, dunno about other regions. I imagine SA vs Korea is really bad, prob a few EU countries too. As an NA player i'd love to hit more EU players. | ||
iRk-AGge
Sweden393 Posts
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Q~Bert
United States657 Posts
On August 09 2019 13:55 iRk-AGge wrote: Yeah I get alot of games vs koreans since the new patch. Well as far as NA today is the first time. Around this time I typically match nothing but 1600 mmr noobs after a 3 minute queue. I log on today and match 4 koreans all over 2000. | ||
TelecoM
United States10583 Posts
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QuadroX
385 Posts
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Bonyth
Poland498 Posts
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AttackZerg
United States7453 Posts
Polish - terrible lag S.korea - playable lag Germany - playable Mexico - mostly playable I don't know about all this turnrate stuff, so I can't answer but there is definitely a difference. | ||
dM-White
Chile338 Posts
Finally waiting less than 100 secs | ||
QuadroX
385 Posts
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LG)Sabbath
Argentina3022 Posts
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Ziggy
South Korea2103 Posts
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Psyonic_Reaver
United States4318 Posts
The lag was decent. Not great but still playable. | ||
-Debaser-
United States329 Posts
finally we can play KOREA without VPN. Thank you blizzard... | ||
Waxangel
United States32487 Posts
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Q~Bert
United States657 Posts
On August 09 2019 23:31 Waxangel wrote: someone tell me if this is good or bad so I know if I should praise or disparage blizzard If you are a high level player this is an enormous change and most would agree for the best. If you are low it's probably breakeven or not preferable because there was already plenty of opponents in your range without Korea. Although I despise lag - the fact that I can now log on and instantly match a player often better than myself is mind boggling seeing as how some of the best NA players do not even ladder leaving only a handful of capable opponents and the rest aren't even a challenge. | ||
Wonk
546 Posts
On August 09 2019 23:31 Waxangel wrote: someone tell me if this is good or bad so I know if I should praise or disparage blizzard disparage by default, ofc I'm still not sure about this, I watched artosis' stream this morning and he was getting serious TR issues vs. KR players, what does this say about the servers? | ||
Ziggy
South Korea2103 Posts
mudfish does a much better job of letting one play on the korean server | ||
WGT-Baal
France3153 Posts
However wide MMR range of opponent from 1400 foreigners to 1900+ kr (i m around 1650~). Good way to improve though for sure | ||
AttackZerg
United States7453 Posts
On August 10 2019 01:51 WGT-Baal wrote: Same, lots of korean, good latency, games in less than 30s. So props for that. However wide MMR range of opponent from 1400 foreigners to 1900+ kr (i m around 1650~). Good way to improve though for sure I find it hard to focus on playing well when 1 guy is 100 apm terran and the next is a 400 apm beast. 1850-2150 is incredibly inconsistent. Sometimes they are incredibly strong, some just terrible. | ||
FakeFin
Germany386 Posts
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Psyonic_Reaver
United States4318 Posts
On August 10 2019 02:01 AttackZerg wrote: I find it hard to focus on playing well when 1 guy is 100 apm terran and the next is a 400 apm beast. 1850-2150 is incredibly inconsistent. Sometimes they are incredibly strong, some just terrible. And they all are very talkative!!! Haha Wish I could put phrases together better other than GL and HF | ||
AttackZerg
United States7453 Posts
On August 10 2019 03:03 Psyonic_Reaver wrote: And they all are very talkative!!! Haha Wish I could put phrases together better other than GL and HF When they respond to gl hf with "Hf?"... then you know it is gametime 8) | ||
seriosity
United States214 Posts
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9-BiT
United States1089 Posts
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EndingLife
United States1558 Posts
On August 10 2019 04:24 9-BiT wrote: 5/5 on koreans today, all TR20 too. My mmr might suffer but I'm happy. Some of them will automatically leave any game under 24 TR. You'll get back in no time! | ||
iFU.spx
Russian Federation344 Posts
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TelecoM
United States10583 Posts
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starithm
United States118 Posts
I'm going to play SC:R again starting this weekend. | ||
XenOsky
Chile2142 Posts
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SCC-Faust
United States3736 Posts
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Qikz
United Kingdom12010 Posts
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seriosity
United States214 Posts
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fazek42
Hungary438 Posts
(maybe the game initiates the built in VPN basesd on language-locale? that would be silly) | ||
Soulforged
Latvia868 Posts
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Tim123321
24 Posts
Wow this is the dream!!! I saw Artosis had constant lag problems playing from Korea (?), so apparently there's some fine tuning to do there (maybe the game initiates the built in VPN basesd on language-locale? that would be silly) dont get confused, this is definitely not a literal VPN. they just changed the matchmaking criteria to allow us to pair with people based on ping instead of ping ESTIMATES based on location, this is a change that theyve stated on the forums that they were going to make soon | ||
SuGo
United States681 Posts
Don't let a 'change/update' that happened skew your opinion just because you see a laggy scenario once or twice somewhere else. This change also has nothing to do with people residing in Korea; in all actuality, the change is minimal for Koreans given that they're still only pairing with foreigners in a small percentage of their total matches. Primarily, they will still continue to pair one another in an overwhelming majority. Minimal change in the eyes of Korea (or should be anyways). More over, it's probably the biggest change for NA since it's constant pairing to KR given that many in NA can achieve an average of TR16+ with Koreans. Lastly, it's probably the smallest change for Europeans because in general, parts of Europe were never able to achieve a true average of TR16 low with Koreans. But still, there will be folks in Europe regardless, who will get the pairings and also pair to NA more frequently at least. Still beneficial overall because now the gates are open to pair to NA with increased flexibility perhaps. Overall, this change should be better for everyone and it's unlikely that Koreans complain about TR16 Low. In my experience so far and many others I've seen, Koreans don't seem to be complaining at all when it's truly TR16 Low. This is also shown in the fact that when utilizing a VPN which could have spikes and lag during a game (it could go from TR8-TR16 several times within a game sometimes), Koreans can see that and hate it. So they cheese you and BM you. In this new update, it's not like that -- they don't talk, they don't really care, and seem to just play regular games because it's a very stable connection overall (from NA perspective I can speak, obviously). Also, stop saying "built in VPN" - it's not a VPN and has nothing to do with a VPN. It's about averages and the correct ping/average associated with the next player in queue, not to do with location or re-routing your connection. It's about fine tuning these averages (keeping it simple) so Blizzard could allow such pairings to happen. It's not like overnight NA is able to achieve TR16 with Koreans, this networking/infrastructure already existed. It's not like Blizzard can fix your connection and improve your natural latency. They can't fix a Peruvian connection, some things are simply what they are... they're not working with your internet provider. So please understand this. For instance, if Blizzard said "ok, average 200 ping = TR14, but we don't allow average TR14 to pair to Korea, you won't pair them" ... but in all actuality, the threshold is average TR16 and an average ping of ~200-220 ping, let's say. So if Blizzard changes the scale and says "ok, well, 200 ping is actually equal to TR16, so let's change the scale" -- then bam, now you're pairing to Koreans because before the ping to TR scale was a bit off (equating TR14 to average pings that should rightfully be associated with TR16). Keep this type of simplified example in mind. Anyways, what do I know Good luck and have fun for those that can achieve the new pairings... | ||
y2k
31 Posts
Here's my theory of the algorithm: It tries to match you with people that you've got minimal connection issues (closer to you) but it also minimises queue times and elo discrepancy if possible, but those are secondary requirements so unless there are loads of people that play wherever and can afford to "spill" a few with decent connection to you you'll get the old results. Anyway, point is do not complain and hit the ladder chances are you'll get matched with similar skill level players if not though luck try again later. Still better than what it was! | ||
fLyiNgDroNe
Belgium3956 Posts
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WombaT
Northern Ireland20712 Posts
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SCC-Faust
United States3736 Posts
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linestein
United States210 Posts
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shafirudd
United States23 Posts
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Bonyth
Poland498 Posts
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tec27
United States3673 Posts
On August 10 2019 22:46 SuGo wrote: Artosis' lag problems were very likely just coincidental and not at all related to this. It's just a one off situation where lag could occur for anyone for a variety of reasons. Don't let a 'change/update' that happened skew your opinion just because you see a laggy scenario once or twice somewhere else. This change also has nothing to do with people residing in Korea; in all actuality, the change is minimal for Koreans given that they're still only pairing with foreigners in a small percentage of their total matches. Primarily, they will still continue to pair one another in an overwhelming majority. Minimal change in the eyes of Korea (or should be anyways). More over, it's probably the biggest change for NA since it's constant pairing to KR given that many in NA can achieve an average of TR16+ with Koreans. Lastly, it's probably the smallest change for Europeans because in general, parts of Europe were never able to achieve a true average of TR16 low with Koreans. But still, there will be folks in Europe regardless, who will get the pairings and also pair to NA more frequently at least. Still beneficial overall because now the gates are open to pair to NA with increased flexibility perhaps. Overall, this change should be better for everyone and it's unlikely that Koreans complain about TR16 Low. In my experience so far and many others I've seen, Koreans don't seem to be complaining at all when it's truly TR16 Low. This is also shown in the fact that when utilizing a VPN which could have spikes and lag during a game (it could go from TR8-TR16 several times within a game sometimes), Koreans can see that and hate it. So they cheese you and BM you. In this new update, it's not like that -- they don't talk, they don't really care, and seem to just play regular games because it's a very stable connection overall (from NA perspective I can speak, obviously). Also, stop saying "built in VPN" - it's not a VPN and has nothing to do with a VPN. It's about averages and the correct ping/average associated with the next player in queue, not to do with location or re-routing your connection. It's about fine tuning these averages (keeping it simple) so Blizzard could allow such pairings to happen. It's not like overnight NA is able to achieve TR16 with Koreans, this networking/infrastructure already existed. It's not like Blizzard can fix your connection and improve your natural latency. They can't fix a Peruvian connection, some things are simply what they are... they're not working with your internet provider. So please understand this. For instance, if Blizzard said "ok, average 200 ping = TR14, but we don't allow average TR14 to pair to Korea, you won't pair them" ... but in all actuality, the threshold is average TR16 and an average ping of ~200-220 ping, let's say. So if Blizzard changes the scale and says "ok, well, 200 ping is actually equal to TR16, so let's change the scale" -- then bam, now you're pairing to Koreans because before the ping to TR scale was a bit off (equating TR14 to average pings that should rightfully be associated with TR16). Keep this type of simplified example in mind. Anyways, what do I know Good luck and have fun for those that can achieve the new pairings... Eh, it's posible they could be doing something that has similar benefits to VPN in that regard, so I don't think it's inaccurate for people to describe it that way. (Note that I have no idea if they *are*, their server infrastructure for people that can't be connected to peer-to-peer did not seem to confer such benefits up to this point) On ShieldBattery, we took the approach of forwarding all traffic through our servers rather than ever doing peer-to-peer. Rather than taking the simplest approach of running a single server instance for each game, though, we made a hybrid "peer-to-peer through a server" sort of approach: For every pair of players in a game, we'd calculate what the lowest ping server choice would be for that pair, then that pair would communicate through that server. From a purely intuitive perspective, you might imagine that adding servers in the middle in this way would make ping times worse. After all, you're adding another hop between the 2 players, and that hop likely wasn't on the path between them before. The key thing that makes this approach potentially better, though, is that routing packets on the public internet is often quite sub-optimal, especially between smaller entities. Private networks (e.g. Google's data center traffic) have more opportunities to control their routing, and more direct incentives for it to be optimal. If we can get players' packets into that private network ASAP (e.g. by having a server located relatively close to one of them), we're likely to improve the latency and reliability of the connection. Anecdotally, games performed a lot better through our system than Blizzard's (prior to any changes that may have occurred very recently, as like I said, unsure what they may have changed), especially for team games. Some good further reading on that subject is the approach Riot takes for LoL: https://technology.riotgames.com/news/fixing-internet-real-time-applications-part-i https://technology.riotgames.com/news/fixing-internet-real-time-applications-part-ii https://technology.riotgames.com/news/fixing-internet-real-time-applications-part-iii Glenn Fiedler has a talk that references that stuff as well, although his site appears to be down at the moment, here's the archived version: https://web.archive.org/web/20190327233556/https://gafferongames.com/post/fixing_the_internet_for_games/ | ||
Anc13nt
1557 Posts
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EndingLife
United States1558 Posts
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AttackZerg
United States7453 Posts
On August 12 2019 02:41 EndingLife wrote: My 5 placement games last night were pretty rough. I matched one 2300, three 2200 and one 2100+. All Koreans, all tr16-tr20. Yeah, this is like iccup when a new season started. Every korean within 50 mmr of me... is way better then I am. Way better. | ||
AttackZerg
United States7453 Posts
This is sooo much better. | ||
Liquid`Drone
Norway28257 Posts
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TelecoM
United States10583 Posts
On August 12 2019 05:53 Liquid`Drone wrote: yeah I'm loving this. Getting matched with koreans, but they start asking me what my race is in korean instead of insulting with broken english due to lag. It's swell. "From?" | ||
LG)Sabbath
Argentina3022 Posts
On August 12 2019 05:53 Liquid`Drone wrote: yeah I'm loving this. Getting matched with koreans, but they start asking me what my race is in korean instead of insulting with broken english due to lag. It's swell. Do you tell them? lol | ||
Liquid`Drone
Norway28257 Posts
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AttackZerg
United States7453 Posts
On August 12 2019 19:50 Liquid`Drone wrote: ya I random cuz I dunno what to pick and I want to play all races but no mirrors, not really cause I care about the advantage, so whenever people ask I do tell the truth. Zerg. You should pick Zerg. I have seen you do more crazy shit in zvt then anyone .... Brattsunami made a geocity website full of strategies that you eventually pulled off. You and Oystein ... Both. Zerg. And Testie. All zergs. On topic - I am not a terrible player, but I have dipped below 1900 in this new match making system. This is rough. | ||
Liquid`Drone
Norway28257 Posts
zvt > tvp > zvp > pvz > pvt > tvz > tvt > pvp >>> zvz can't have zvz be 1/3 of it. keep petitioning blizzard to implement race picking though | ||
AttackZerg
United States7453 Posts
On August 13 2019 02:04 Liquid`Drone wrote: if I'm ranking matchups based on how fun I think they are, it's basically something like zvt > tvp > zvp > pvz > pvt > tvz > tvt > pvp >>> zvz can't have zvz be 1/3 of it. keep petitioning blizzard to implement race picking though =) I look at ZvZ as the price I have to play the coolest-best race. It is just real time micro practice for anti probe scouting and muta micro. I am too old, longer then 12-15 minute zvz and I leave. It is not worth my wrist to prove I can clone scourge. | ||
onlystar
United States971 Posts
They should give racepicking. Back to the bw community as it has always been part of laddering | ||
ggsimida
1100 Posts
On August 13 2019 17:09 onlystar wrote: The most important reason for supporting racepicking nowardays in my opinion is time management with the player base growing older we dont have time to spend hours grinding the ladder. And Still want to play the matchups competitively we enjoy the most. They should give racepicking. Back to the bw community as it has always been part of laddering if they are not giving 2v2 matchmaking after promising it 2 years ago i 100% doubt they will care about racepicking | ||
AttackZerg
United States7453 Posts
I do think random (and maybe anyone) should be able to select 1 (or 3 for random) matchups that they would like to avoid, similar to map preferences. I have blockchain on my list of dont play. Out of 75 games. 0 block chain. Currently sc2 is constant zvzs but at least it isnt as brutal on the body as bw zvz. | ||
Liquid`Drone
Norway28257 Posts
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Bonyth
Poland498 Posts
player A plays: ZvZ, TvT, PvP player B plays: ZvP, ZvT, TvZ these players will never meet on ladder. Of course this is a silly example, have nothing against race picking. | ||
Liquid`Drone
Norway28257 Posts
On August 13 2019 23:36 Bonyth wrote: So here is one rare possibility: player A plays: ZvZ, TvT, PvP player B plays: ZvP, ZvT, TvZ these players will never meet on ladder. Of course this is a silly example, have nothing against race picking. Ya there's a 'remote possibility' of that happening. Simple solution is that when choosing your 'vs-race' (this is only relevant for people who are race picking), you have to choose a 'vs random-race' in addition, and in the event where two players don't have corresponding matchups, both get their vs-random race. (Every race picker will prefer the option of race picking and having weird matchups happen less than 1% over having to play a matchup they don't like 33% of the time. ) | ||
AttackZerg
United States7453 Posts
On August 13 2019 23:11 Liquid`Drone wrote: I have still to hear an even remotely coherent and logically founded argument against race picking (aside from possible difficulty of implementing, which I can't comment on) in ladder and am curious to hear yours.. I think race picking should be allowed in any tournament online or offline or match ect. I support the idea of selecting matchups, just not for ladder.... and tbh Eri, I am willing to explore my wrongness. I think a 2k mmr zerg should be the same as the next. A 2k zerg that only plays zvp is not the same as a 2k player playing versus all races. If we can seperate mmr by matchup, then yes sure ofc. I have a long standing grudge against forced races, e.g, I think Rets career was really buggered by anti-multiracial bias. The only logical arguments are implementation based, you kind of short circuited a broad range of attack angles there 8) For practice - nothing would be better then allowing for matchup preferences. As it stands, it would be kinda lame if someone is ranked as my zerg equal while avoiding 1 or 2 matchups that make zerg hard. | ||
Liquid`Drone
Norway28257 Posts
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AttackZerg
United States7453 Posts
On August 14 2019 00:21 Liquid`Drone wrote: race picking does not mean you should be allowed to play only zvp. I'm 100% against that. Race picking means that you can choose your own race against every other race - not that you are allowed to dodge any matchups. It does mean you can choose pvt instead of zvt, but it does not mean you can dodge playing vs terrans. Either way you need to be proficient at equally many matchups. And someone who only plays 1 zerg matchup won't really be considered a zerg player anyway.. Hmmm.... if it only means, " I have the option to choose p versus zerg instead of zerg" then I can't be against it but I think a matchup mmr would be more appropriate for describing said persons objective skill. Somehow I correlated race picking with matchup picking. (Good Morning from Cali). I think my matchup preference idea is the easiest implementation and it would bypass the 1-1000 situation, you two mentioned before. | ||
AttackZerg
United States7453 Posts
Is anyone else just getting brutalized? I thought playing 20 games on iccup every few months kept me relevant-decent. Started playing on remastered this week, climbed to 1900s, switch happened and now I am getting leveled, by similar ranked people. Is this everyone? | ||
Counc1l
33 Posts
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blackmanpl
58 Posts
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AttackZerg
United States7453 Posts
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WGT-Baal
France3153 Posts
On August 14 2019 12:35 AttackZerg wrote: I dropped from low 1900s to low 1700s. Is anyone else just getting brutalized? I thought playing 20 games on iccup every few months kept me relevant-decent. Started playing on remastered this week, climbed to 1900s, switch happened and now I am getting leveled, by similar ranked people. Is this everyone? Yes. Dropped from 1700~ to fighting to survive at 1500, 90% koreans | ||
seriosity
United States214 Posts
On August 15 2019 02:23 blackmanpl wrote: I just quit against tr 14, idk why ppl would even want to play high or anything below tr20, simply not fun. Should be an option to omit players from asia and south america. No fun in that, and much waste of time. except for when they did for 20 years | ||
chuDr3t4
Russian Federation483 Posts
On August 15 2019 02:23 blackmanpl wrote: I just quit against tr 14, idk why ppl would even want to play high or anything below tr20, simply not fun. Should be an option to omit players from asia and south america. No fun in that, and much waste of time. Before remastered highest TR was TR16 as in 0 ping LAN. | ||
blabber
United States4448 Posts
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Anc13nt
1557 Posts
On August 14 2019 12:35 AttackZerg wrote: I dropped from low 1900s to low 1700s. Is anyone else just getting brutalized? I thought playing 20 games on iccup every few months kept me relevant-decent. Started playing on remastered this week, climbed to 1900s, switch happened and now I am getting leveled, by similar ranked people. Is this everyone? I think most people who played a lot recently outside Korea probably are getting much worse results. Korean players are just a lot better than foreigner players even for the same mmr. Like a Korean 1600s-1700s player is probably comparable in strength to like an 1800 foreigner playe Edit: Also, in my experience, the ladder has been way harder for me as zerg but when I play protoss it's still ok. I feel like Koreans are much better in PvZ. | ||
AttackZerg
United States7453 Posts
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QuadroX
385 Posts
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kogeT
Poland2000 Posts
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LaStScan
Korea (South)1288 Posts
On August 20 2019 17:20 kogeT wrote: I realized that setting a "wrong gateway" in your battle.net app (e.g you are in europe but you pick asia/americas or vice versa) will result in horrible lag, so be careful. it might be a coincidence. have you tried with the same person? I've just checked the blizzard sc forum, they gave us the turnrate latency(? ms) table. | ||
LG)Sabbath
Argentina3022 Posts
On August 14 2019 12:35 AttackZerg wrote: I dropped from low 1900s to low 1700s. Is anyone else just getting brutalized? I thought playing 20 games on iccup every few months kept me relevant-decent. Started playing on remastered this week, climbed to 1900s, switch happened and now I am getting leveled, by similar ranked people. Is this everyone? Same here, from 1900 to 1700ish, so many koreans now I've run into multiple 1800 korean protosess that are unstoppable macro gods and look more like what I thought a 2200 player would look like | ||
StRyKeR
United States1739 Posts
On August 14 2019 12:35 AttackZerg wrote: I dropped from low 1900s to low 1700s. Is anyone else just getting brutalized? I thought playing 20 games on iccup every few months kept me relevant-decent. Started playing on remastered this week, climbed to 1900s, switch happened and now I am getting leveled, by similar ranked people. Is this everyone? Yup. Facing Koreans 90% of games. A lot of them are 1600, 1700 MMR and they turn out to be macro gods. Virtually every Korean I've faced had solid mechanics. My theory is that many of these players just leave match ups they don't like, and that's why they have low MMR (they essentially auto-lose 33% of their games). I've had a bunch of Koreans also leave because of lag right after game starts (they're used to TR24 so TR16 is laggy for them lol). It's also possible that because the ladders have essentially been region locked before, their scale is just very different from ours. It's hard to believe 1600 being expected to be that good though. | ||
A.Alm
Sweden494 Posts
Not only does it lag but people get mad and blame me for my "bad" (100/100 mbit fiber) internet connection. I really don't understand why we cannot alter this stuff manually. For example, i woulnd't mind waiting a few minutes to get matched up with someone closer to me. | ||
LG)Sabbath
Argentina3022 Posts
On August 22 2019 23:11 StRyKeR wrote: It's also possible that because the ladders have essentially been region locked before, their scale is just very different from ours. It's hard to believe 1600 being expected to be that good though. It's still region locked, just now it matches a bit wider, but for example I don't ever get matched with players from Peru or Chile even though they're really close, probably because my connection is much better and I get matched with koreans all the time. So in that sense there are groups of people who basically only play each other and so the mmr can be all over the place. I've played 1100 mmr players that were okay (basic build order and micro), and 1600 players that were absolutely terrible (I attack with 3 marines and they don't even defend with workers, just roll over and die). | ||
Q~Bert
United States657 Posts
On August 22 2019 23:11 StRyKeR wrote: Yup. Facing Koreans 90% of games. A lot of them are 1600, 1700 MMR and they turn out to be macro gods. Virtually every Korean I've faced had solid mechanics. My theory is that many of these players just leave match ups they don't like, and that's why they have low MMR (they essentially auto-lose 33% of their games). I've had a bunch of Koreans also leave because of lag right after game starts (they're used to TR24 so TR16 is laggy for them lol). It's also possible that because the ladders have essentially been region locked before, their scale is just very different from ours. It's hard to believe 1600 being expected to be that good though. It is possible that they are a bit lower than where they should be but still it would not be far off. I am having little trouble with the ~2000 koreans much less the 1600s. I think it was actually quite exaggerated how much better the korean ladder is in terms of comparative MMRs. For instance SuGo would say that 2300 on foreign ladder would equate to 2050 MMR on korean ladder. This is in no way true in my experience. | ||
XenOsky
Chile2142 Posts
i think the difference varies between 100-150 mmr. | ||
WGT-Baal
France3153 Posts
On August 23 2019 00:40 XenOsky wrote: 1900 korean = 2000 foreigner, mb 2100 if zerg foreigner. i think the difference varies between 100-150 mmr. In the lower levels it looks like the koreans have a single build/timing per MU ( faced a player 3 times in a row and he did the same 3 times) but that timing is fairly sharp. Got destroyed the 1st game (i m now 1450/1500 vs 1350 guy) but defended well and crushed him in both other games, he had no followup or transition. I only have about 20games vs korean so take that with a grain of salt. | ||
AttackZerg
United States7453 Posts
An 1800 kr protoss knows how to a harass + split map game - they know how to ration gas and build far superior army compositions and the control esp zealots/sair/shuttle/templar are just WAY better. Q-bert - from your posts I gather you are a strong player. I think your strength really changes your perspective. 1800 non korean 160-220 apm the average korean I face is 280-480. Hell the 2245 player I played, hellokittycat had an apm of 480. There are major differences. Not complaining at all. But yeah, it is huge. Faster, play-style emulating pro's rather then personalized less optimal builds, the list could go on and on, but there is a a mmr difference. A 1600 feels the same, esp zvz. | ||
Counc1l
33 Posts
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InDi
Spain90 Posts
Vs Koreans I am 1900 to 2100 (peaking) and facing players with 1600/1700 MMR and 350 APM who just play really well. Whenever I get paired against a 1600 MMR guy I was used to play more relaxed and try more bullshit BOs, vs Koreans this is just not possible, you need to be focused even vs lower MMR guys, so that takes a toll on foreigners that, as me, I guess we aren't using to playing so "seriously" all the time. | ||
AttackZerg
United States7453 Posts
Even beasts don't auto slingshot to 2300 | ||
Shinokuki
United States849 Posts
On August 23 2019 00:27 Q~Bert wrote: It is possible that they are a bit lower than where they should be but still it would not be far off. I am having little trouble with the ~2000 koreans much less the 1600s. I think it was actually quite exaggerated how much better the korean ladder is in terms of comparative MMRs. For instance SuGo would say that 2300 on foreign ladder would equate to 2050 MMR on korean ladder. This is in no way true in my experience. Depends on when you are playing. Lot of koreans know that most competitive players play around peak korean times (7pm-2am). I remember i reached 2150 on VPN playing outside that time and then played in that time frame and people there had superior skills. I went 0-7. It was just nuts how different it was. 1900 felt like 2100, 2100 felt like 2300. Sugo is partially right in that part. | ||
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