EPTIve tried doing it in fun games and it's really great for activating mines nearby when i hallucinate my opponents units as well, that is when i just move attack and hallucinate their tanks instead of storm. I just hope pros use it someday as it would look pretty great instead of the usual hallucinated arbs and shuttles.
Hallucination spell for minedrag/meatshield/etc?
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Broodwar4lyf
304 Posts
Ive tried doing it in fun games and it's really great for activating mines nearby when i hallucinate my opponents units as well, that is when i just move attack and hallucinate their tanks instead of storm. I just hope pros use it someday as it would look pretty great instead of the usual hallucinated arbs and shuttles. | ||
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ProMeTheus112
France2027 Posts
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RWLabs
Korea (South)273 Posts
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EndingLife
United States1600 Posts
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Alpha-NP-
United States1242 Posts
On December 08 2018 09:52 EndingLife wrote: Hallucinating arbiters in the late game of PvT so you can get through turret defense is useful. Yes use it first for this and then if you wanna throw in the occasional hallucinations later than go ahead and do if for extra utility. The strategy is called Spirit Protoss and it isn’t practical to ever use unless you first use it to Recall. | ||
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ThunderJunk
United States726 Posts
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Alpha-NP-
United States1242 Posts
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Moopower
128 Posts
So if your hts can't get good positioning and terran has a vulture mobile focused game, it might be worth trying vs only being able to storm once or twice on a clump of tanks that don't get a chance to polish them off. We saw Rain's hts get sniped by sharps vultures so much it was such a waste that it looked like if he just used hallucination on them he would've gotten a higher return on investment than just having them die. | ||
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razorsuKe
Canada2000 Posts
If you already have hallu and the T is rolling up on you and occasionally stepping on his own mines? Hallucinate his cluster of tanks and let those mines blow that shit up. Bonus: If the tanks are already clustered and you hallu one in the middle, the splash alone would help a lot. Plus it takes a few shots away from your own advancing army. | ||
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Yanokabo
268 Posts
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yubo56
690 Posts
On December 08 2018 10:47 ThunderJunk wrote: Bisu used it a few times against Terran. I can't remember what the match was, but it was on a blue map and he used it to push onto the high ground to good effect. is the timestamped game, since I haven't seen it linked yet. Bisu loses since Iris was playing out of his mind | ||
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puppykiller
United States3137 Posts
On December 08 2018 10:18 Alpha-NP- wrote: Yes use it first for this and then if you wanna throw in the occasional hallucinations later than go ahead and do if for extra utility. The strategy is called Spirit Protoss and it isn’t practical to ever use unless you first use it to Recall. Hallu arbs are the answer to late game PvT woes. They are very very hard to beat if they are used well. | ||
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iPlaY.NettleS
Australia4404 Posts
On December 08 2018 19:21 razorsuKe wrote: Here's one: If you already have hallu and the T is rolling up on you and occasionally stepping on his own mines? Hallucinate his cluster of tanks and let those mines blow that shit up. only works if he's using move not attack-move otherwise the hallus die before the mines explode | ||
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Deleted User 504867
12 Posts
In fact, it was concidered to be an effective counter strategy against that. Hallucination was always researched first and some people left Storm out entirely as the main purpose of having templars in that situation was the use of hallucination. This have always been used since the original Starcraft and i really wonder why almost no one uses it in the present, it's one of the most succesful strategies against terran as a protoss. Storm is only better vs infantry units, Hallucination is way superior vs mech. You can combine this with Stasis (which was rare back then) and hallucinated shuttles if wanted to drop zealots to sieged tanks. The only reason i could think of is that Blizzard have changed the hallucination spell. It used to produce 2 units with one spell. Even with one unit i think it should be viable against terran mech positions. | ||
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MeSaber
Sweden1235 Posts
 High TemplarHallu cost 100 and gives 2 units.. What you talking about? Hallu onto enemy army over mines wouldnt work because Hallu has short range(7), HT would die before. Hallu army and attack would be mostly ineffective because the problem with Protoss attacks are space to flank with. Hallu would make that worse and they would die before reaching anyway. T would waste one Siege shot but thats it. Even so Hallus would be blocking rest of the army so it wouldnt help army to reach Tanks anyway. As someone already mentioned 99% of the time Storm is the better deal because it inflicts direct damage instead of relying on Siege to kill themselves. The double dmg taken is what breaks Hallus. It has some use-cases like when you want to shuttle in units to battle or island or whatever. On ground however, it just imposes another obstacle to go around(or wait behind) for the real army. Id use it more if it cost 75E for sure. If you suck at big battles you should practice instead of thinking Hallucination will win it for you, because it will not  | ||
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Chronopolis
Canada1484 Posts
You have a high-tech army, have too many hts to use and you want reduce surface area for your archon/reaver/goon. So you clone like 6-10 archons. | ||
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Bonyth
Poland596 Posts
like this: | ||
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Deleted User 504867
12 Posts
It does not take much skill but it still involves some unit control to be effective. The hallucinations need not to be stacked for example, could contain various units and more than one wave. Using them on move command (vs tank positions) is another thing as mentioned above. The most important part is not to make them in middle of the engagement. Storm is better to use in that way. Effectiveness of storm also depends on how spread out / stacked the units are. In case of tanks terran players usually do not stack them, but spread them out in a wider area. Especially on tvp. You should try if you have not. Even wasting the frontal mines and first tank shots are worth it and if you like to storm you can still do it. In my memory it was still mostly used on speed zealots. Of course hallucinating carriers is also viable. It's a good spell. All spells, abilities and units are useful. Thats part of what makes brood war so good. That some spell is better than another in all situations is certainly not true in this game. | ||
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TelecoM
United States10700 Posts
On December 08 2018 10:18 Alpha-NP- wrote: Yes use it first for this and then if you wanna throw in the occasional hallucinations later than go ahead and do if for extra utility. The strategy is called Spirit Protoss and it isn’t practical to ever use unless you first use it to Recall. Spirit Protoss lol... It is useful for early carrier strategies as well when Protoss has a slight advantage, i've never heard of this term Spirit Protoss lol | ||
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Jealous
10310 Posts
On December 08 2018 10:18 Alpha-NP- wrote: Yes use it first for this and then if you wanna throw in the occasional hallucinations later than go ahead and do if for extra utility. The strategy is called Spirit Protoss and it isn’t practical to ever use unless you first use it to Recall. On August 05 2019 10:38 GGzerG wrote: Spirit Protoss lol... It is useful for early carrier strategies as well when Protoss has a slight advantage, i've never heard of this term Spirit Protoss lol Actually, Spirit Protoss has nothing to do with Hallucination at all, and is instead a reference to high Zealot counts. Spirit ProtossHallucinated armies are basically never useful or used in the modern era. I guess it's viable if you're that much better than your opponent and your opponent is a scrub, that way you can steez on him. EDIT: Oops, this is a stupid necro. | ||
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radley
Poland582 Posts
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Deleted User 504867
12 Posts
Just watched asl season 8 last vs snow where snow played so aggressively he never gave last a change to acquire siege positions in the map and he used no high templars in any of those games. (The hallucinated ground units are almost never used unless terran have acquired strong positions in the middle) But there are games where rain for instance sacrifice tens of zealots to such positions for no gain (in a long game against last if i remember correctly) in the same time having lots of high templars he did not use. Those zealots could have been hallucinations and the position could have been breached as the real ones could have reached their intended targets. Suppose with good instincts and reaction one could use emp though. But as nobody uses them so how could anyone guess ? Using EMP against protoss is way more brutal and is still rare though. | ||
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Jealous
10310 Posts
On August 05 2019 22:01 Isto wrote: Hallucinations vs tanks works well against any player If this is the case, you will surely be able to provide numerous examples from pro games? | ||
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RWLabs
Korea (South)273 Posts
On August 05 2019 22:01 Isto wrote: Hallucinations vs tanks works well against any player because the mines and tanks are set / immobile targets on any terran. Except high templars all melt before they can get anywhere near the tanks to hallucinate them to set off mines. Everyone seems to have a massive hard-on for mine dragging with hallucinations but underestimate how much the double damage malus that hallucinations have is. Combined with siege tank and vulture fire, spider mines erase hallucinated units before they do much of anything. You're probably better off storming the mines and saving 25 energy. And as a bonus you can pick one or two more dragoons for not researching hallucination. | ||
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Deleted User 504867
12 Posts
Use of hallucination is an old strategy that was used in pvt by players in Starcraft FIN-1 in early 2000 and possibly before Brood War. In my opinion its still viable but situational. The reason i posted in this was because i have yet to seen a pro gamer utilize this tactic even in a situation it would produce the best results and i searched the forum about an existing thread like it suggested when i was trying to open a new one regarding this. I believe some of the people who are commenting this do not have any actual experience in the subject. Or am i being baited on this ? There is lots of things that are awesome or efective like maelstorm + storm combo, ensnare and so on that people rarely use but sometimes someone does and its always neat. One ability that sees use almost never is optical flare with medic. I know only one player that have ever used it even once and it was effective. | ||
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RWLabs
Korea (South)273 Posts
On August 06 2019 05:21 Isto wrote: I believe you cannot use hallucination on enemy units. Try it for yourself and be astounded. On August 06 2019 05:21 Isto wrote: The reason i posted in this was because i have yet to seen a pro gamer utilize this tactic even in a situation it would produce the best results and i searched the forum about an existing thread like it suggested when i was trying to open a new one regarding this. I believe some of the people who are commenting this do not have any actual experience in the subject. Or am i being baited on this ? There is lots of things that are awesome or efective like maelstorm + storm combo, ensnare and so on that people rarely use but sometimes someone does and its always neat. One ability that sees use almost never is optical flare with medic. I know only one player that have ever used it even once and it was effective. I'm curious what makes you so convinced that you're fit to judge what would yield the best results. The points I'm making are directly from Best's own words. Do you really believe you can judge what's more effective than Best? Coincidentally Best is one of the experimental Protosses who pioneered Dark Archon play in a time when they were considered garbage units. And even he thinks hallucination is absolute crap. Also you probably are thinking of Boxer for optical flare; he used it to blind observers. And the reason why no one uses it today is because it's not effective. Edit: source. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QYWBJ6wKK-Q | ||
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Jealous
10310 Posts
On August 06 2019 10:34 RWLabs wrote: Try it for yourself and be astounded. I'm curious what makes you so convinced that you're fit to judge what would yield the best results. The points I'm making are directly from Best's own words. Do you really believe you can judge what's more effective than Best? Coincidentally Best is one of the experimental Protosses who pioneered Dark Archon play in a time when they were considered garbage units. And even he thinks hallucination is absolute crap. Also you probably are thinking of Boxer for optical flare; he used it to blind observers. And the reason why no one uses it today is because it's not effective. Edit: source. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QYWBJ6wKK-Q UpMagic also used it and I believe he actually won the game (Optic Flare). In fact, he tried it a couple of times, but I'd struggle to find the VODs right now. But yes, this seems to be a common trend as of late, with people coming into the forums to suggest that X skill/unit/strategy/idea has been underrated for 20 years despite there being professional players, coaches, managers, and teams as a whole who have pored over this game in and out for a decade in a constrained training environment, these individuals believing they have somehow unearthed a holy grail of strategic value while those chumps in Korea were so busy doing... whatever it is they were doing with millions of dollars on the line. | ||
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Deleted User 504867
12 Posts
So your telling me koreans could pay me money to help them win games ? - In regarding the subject i think the basic design principle in brood war is that there is no such thing as useless unit or ability. Its up to players do they want to utilize the material that is available to them or not. | ||
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RWLabs
Korea (South)273 Posts
On August 06 2019 22:30 Isto wrote: Lol So your telling me koreans could pay me money to help them win games ? - In regarding the subject i think the basic design principle in brood war is that there is no such thing as useless unit or ability. Its up to players do they want to utilize the material that is available to them or not. You sound a little muffled there with your head up your ass. What's years of experience playing against the best of the best? Surely this strategy gosu on the internet knows better. What MMR are you even at? And while it's true that abilities and units are unique, that doesn't mean they're anywhere near equally useful. Even if you compare something like a dragoon and a scout, while the scout is better at hunting enemy capital ships than the dragoon, it fails in every other regard. No one goes for capital ships against Protoss, and even if they do, dragoons aren't bad against them anyways. The scout excels at a role that doesn't need to be filled, is costly to pick, and other units perform moderately okay at its main role. Ergo no one uses scouts unless on island maps. Not to mention hallucination is already being used for recalls anyways so your point is moot. | ||
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Deleted User 504867
12 Posts
Explain yourself. Who are the koreans who pay money for guidance ? Do they know english ? I know this game well. | ||
tofucake
Hyrule19200 Posts
On August 07 2019 22:57 Isto wrote: How hallucinations are used to recall ? Are you a hippie ? Explain yourself. Who are the koreans who pay money for guidance ? Do they know english ? I know this game well. A) Chill out. This is a forum for discussion, not a random chat where you can get away with insulting people. B) Hallucinate Arbiters, send everything in, hallucinations tank for the real one so it has more time to recall | ||
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Deleted User 504867
12 Posts
I would appreciate on giving answers about the korean people, hippie or no. - Yes, that is a viable use of the spell but often not necessary. Mostly seen against fortified island bases / shuttles against islands. | ||
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Jealous
10310 Posts
On August 08 2019 02:35 Isto wrote: So hippies not in high regards. I would appreciate on giving answers about the korean people, hippie or no. - Yes, that is a viable use of the spell but often not necessary. Mostly seen against fortified island bases / shuttles against islands. No player, much less any top level Korean player, should listen to a word you have to say about Brood War because you clearly don't know anything about competitive play because you clearly didn't understand that we are talking about actual professional players, teams, coaches, etc. that existed in the KeSPA era and beyond. It is clear to everyone here that you have an extremely limited understanding of the game. --- Where do these WaterSerpents, Moatazes, and Istos come from??? How do they find a forum that has an ample amount of progaming VODs, information, and resources - but instead of actually learning anything, just use it as a place to push 1999-level gameplay ideas? | ||
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tofucake
Hyrule19200 Posts
On August 08 2019 02:35 Isto wrote: So hippies not in high regards. I would appreciate on giving answers about the korean people, hippie or no. - Yes, that is a viable use of the spell but often not necessary. Mostly seen against fortified island bases / shuttles against islands. No, it's mostly not used for that at all. On August 08 2019 02:55 Jealous wrote: No player, much less any top level Korean player, should listen to a word you have to say about Brood War because you clearly don't know anything about competitive play because you clearly didn't understand that we are talking about actual professional players, teams, coaches, etc. that existed in the KeSPA era and beyond. It is clear to everyone here that you have an extremely limited understanding of the game. --- Where do these WaterSerpents, Moatazes, and Istos come from??? How do they find a forum that has an ample amount of progaming VODs, information, and resources - but instead of actually learning anything, just use it as a place to push 1999-level gameplay ideas? Dunno, but they're lasting shorter and shorter lengths of time nowadays. | ||
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Deleted User 504867
12 Posts
The overall atmosphere in this forum however is oppressive. I would hope for a constructive and supporting one. I should note that the level of gameplay and tactics in the finnish starcraft genre have always been high. Overall probably only second to korea. There are some things we did better years ago than koreans in the present and there were no replays available so only ones that know about them is people like me. And the rest are probably not interested anymore so i might really be the only one if someone is interested in stuff like that. Anyway this feels stupid and feeling baited and off topic. Still have to say im serious on contacting the koreans who can supposedly pay money on helping them. If it turns out nobody exactly knows about them i think it should be approppriate to open a new thread for that. Original poster wanted to know the use of hallucination and i believe i provided something there at least. | ||
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Jealous
10310 Posts
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Deleted User 504867
12 Posts
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