|
BW Power Rank: August 2018
August 3rd, 2018 04:49 GMT
Hello and welcome to our first Starcraft: Remastered monthly Power Rank! We've done tournament-only power ranks in the past, and while those are always good and fun, we decided it was time to return to our roots and go back to a nice monthly power rank. For the Power Rank, players were graded by the following: 1) Offline tournament results, 2) Online tournament results, and 3) Past performances within a few months. Now, this doesn't mean that simply making it into the ASL or KSL guarantees a player a higher spot than someone who makes a deep run in an online tournament. There aren't many offline tournaments these days, and large online tournaments like the recent DanJJING Starleague still hold significant merit in our eyes. Now, with that out of the way, let's get to the Power Rank! #1: Rain  Rain is the best Protoss right now, and the best player in the world outside of FlaSh. He clobbered poor Movie in his opening match in the KSL to send a strong message to his competition: his ASL5 win wasn’t a fluke, and he’s on a quest to prove that he’s top dog right now. His micro has always been top-notch, allowing him to take small early game leads that transition into a mid-late game victory, and his decision making has looked just as good. Getting that 25 probe kill reaver on Polaris Rhapsody just puts the icing on the cake for Rain. Definitely the frontrunner to win the KSL, Rain takes this month’s #1 slot. #2: Larva  With a strong win in the DanJJING Starleague 3, Larva surges to a #2 spot on this month’s Power Rank. He beat 4 players in this Power Rank (Stork, Mind, Action, BeSt) to obtain the gold, and while he is sorely missed in the KSL, he’ll make a strong case for the next ASL. His series against BeSt took him to the edge, but clever ling runbys and mutalisk pressure helped him reach the three wins necessary to take home the gold. It's interesting to note that he went for more 3-base play against Protoss compared to his more traditional 4 base defensive style, so perhaps Larva is adding to his arsenal of ZvP strategies. Look out for Larva to come out guns blazing in August. #3: Soulkey  If KCM Race Wars are any sign of a surging player, then Soulkey is the cream of the crop. He ended the July 13th edition with a destructive 4-kill, and played a very good series against Shuttle in the KSL. Soulkey did show some weaknesses in that series which could be potentiall abused by a stronger Protoss like Rain in a future matchup. He’ll need to think of more than just low-econ hydra busts and early zergling shenanigans to improve his ZvP. While his clever fake drop play is a great BoX prepped build, Soulkey failed to make a good impression in his macro game, which used to be one of his stronger points. He’ll need to prove himself against TvZ specialist, Light, to maintain his spot this month. #4: Snow  Hot off his strong ASL5 silver, Snow faltered in the DanJJING Starleague where he was eliminated by MIsO in the Ro16. But he bounced back with a convincing victory over Shine in his KSL opener, where his cheese defense was something special. It reminded me of FlaSh at his peak when he always knew when to pull workers and the exact number of workers needed to defend. I’m not entirely sold on his PvZ just yet with Shine being a pretty predictable player after his ASL3 Cinderella run, but most players have figured out he’s mostly just full of cheeses and not much else. Snow should easily dispatch Sharp in the Winner’s match to push him into the Ro8. #5: BeSt  BeSt’s loss to Stork in the KSL definitely has him lower than I would like to put him, where his incessant need to DT rush cost him Game 5. His overall mechanics looked particularly strong, but he still opted for cheesy openers against an inferior Stork. But his close 2nd place finish to Larva in the DanJJING Starleague 3 makes up for that loss. His PvZ has improved dramatically, taking clear macro wins over Larva in Games 1 and 3. He’s really stepped up his understanding of the matchup and has taken strides to refine his corsair and DT control. Him and Snow are vying for #2 Protoss in the world right now, so we’ll have to keep an eye on this battle in August. BeSt will need to bounce back with a win against Mind in the losers' match of KSL. #6: Sharp ![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/prech/files/RaceIcons/Ticon_pastel_Hyde.png) Sharp’s consistent performances in the KCM Race Wars, where he’s been averaging a 2k every week, as well as a strong showing against Sea in his KSL opener puts him at my #6. TvT has always been his bread and butter, and his demolition of Sea showed with great tactics, powerful map pressure, and smart target firing. His drop play in Game 4 was particularly strong and really showcased the different styles he can play. However, his weak performance in the DanJJING Starleague where he failed to move out of the Ro24 against Soma means he fails to break the top 5. A botched defense against a simple overpool makes me scratch my head to see how Sharp can take down top Zergs like Soulkey and Larva in KCM, but fail to beat Soma in a tournament setting. If he can beat Snow in the KSL, he’ll definitely move up this list. #7: Mini  A demolition of Last with crisp carrier micro that rivaled that of Stork lets Mini come in at #7. Seriously, go watch games 1 and 2, that’s how you use carriers to make a comeback. He was down 40 supply in game 2, but Blue Storm carriers came to save the day, picking off units left and right and doing the good old natural run-around with Last. Then he sealed the deal with some great reaver micro in game 3 to take home the sweep. He’s been on an upward trend following his 4th place finish at ASL5, but a sad 0-2 in his DSL Ro16 group means he doesn’t get placed higher than 7th here. If he manages to upset Rain in the winners' match, he’ll definitely surge up the ranks. More people need to be looking out for Mini as a contending Protoss because he has been improving rapidly. #8: Mind ![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/prech/files/RaceIcons/Ticon_pastel_Hyde.png) Ok, so yes he lost to Horang2, someone I put at the bottom of my list for KSL players, but at least it was a close series. His weaknesses are still in his larger fights which most Terrans have trouble with minus FlaSh, but his micro in small skirmishes in the early game are still quite good as seen on Fighting Spirit. He also made the Ro8 in the DSL where he barely lost to BeSt 2-3, but in a similar fashion as he lost to Horang2. Thus far, he’s the only person who qualified for the Ro8 in the DSL and had a close series where he lost in the KSL, so I have to give him some credit for that (Last made it to the Ro8 in DSL, but got demolished by Mini). He’ll take our #8 spot, but faces an uphill challenge against BeSt in the losers' match. #9: Stork  His surprising victory over BeSt in his KSL opener, 3-2, turned a lot of heads. Is this the rise of the old Stork again? Time will have to tell, but if his series was any indicator of things to come, Stork fans should be very excited for this KSL. Coming back down 0-2 is a huge triumph, but I will say he did take a bit to close out those games against BeSt. Game 3 on Fighting Spirit showed that Stork still has a lot of work to do in the mechanics department, where even after getting a significant build order advantage, he struggled to close out the game against BeSt. Still, beating a top tier player puts Stork at #9, and he is quickly becoming a Ro8 hopeful with his next match being against Horang2. #10: Action  I think it would be extremely unfair of me to not include the 3rd place finisher in the DanJJING Starleague 3 anywhere in my PR, so Action makes #10. His series against Mong was decisive, with zergling control in game 1 that was reminiscent of Jaedong. Easy 8 rax holds and then suffocating Mong until he was forced to tap out in Game 4 sealed the deal in that series. He failed to qualify for the KSL though, but if his play at the DSL and his debut in the ASL5 are any indications of his trajectory, he’s a player to watch out for in the future. His current spot is most likely temporary, as I don’t expect him to play too many games in August. Hopefully he makes a strong showing in ASL6 though. -- Close But No Cigar (CBNC) --- FlaSh: Inactivity in the month of July sees FlaSh fail to qualify for our top 10. Hopefully we see some action from him in August, otherwise he’ll stay in CBNC. Shuttle: Shuttle’s close series against Soulkey means he’s still a very solid Protoss. However, faltering at the DSL means he will miss a spot in the PR. A win against Jaedong might propel him into the top 10 next month. Light: One would think Light might have squeezed into the top 10 with a triumphant win over Jaedong, but let’s be honest, JD is out of shape, and Light’s best matchup is TvZ. The real test will be his match against Soulkey. Writer: FlaShFTW Graphics: v1 Editors: Bigfan Photo Credits: Blizzard Entertainment
|
Flash is 10 places lower than I expected but I see your point.
Nice write-up!
|
|
United States10097 Posts
2nd best player haha. FlaSh is still the best. But yes, if you beat Rain, then you beat the 2nd best player in the world.
|
and Jaedong?
|
|
FlashFTW is baiting flash into the foreign limelight. Solid move!
Edit: Oh and nice article!
|
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/DC6k1j3.gif)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/Fionn/bysun.gif)
Can't wait til Flash returns and then we see Rain crush him as well.
|
Where is By.Hero, ZvP Master and rival of Bisu? He got AK in KRS semi finals and 2 kills in final. He’ll dominate PSL if he can participate imo.
|
United States10097 Posts
On August 03 2018 16:19 sc19980331 wrote: Where is By.Hero, ZvP Master and rival of Bisu? He got AK in KRS semi finals and 2 kills in final. He’ll dominate PSL if he can participate imo. KCM was mostly tiebreaker and slight push fodder for me. Soulkey ranked above Snow because he dominates KCM, Sharp over Mini because of KCM. Hero failed to play well in DSL and failed to qualify for KSL. Because he was in neither tournament, unfortunately as much as I would love to put hero on the list, or even as CBNC, he does not make the cut.
|
On August 03 2018 16:27 FlaShFTW wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2018 16:19 sc19980331 wrote: Where is By.Hero, ZvP Master and rival of Bisu? He got AK in KRS semi finals and 2 kills in final. He’ll dominate PSL if he can participate imo. KCM was mostly tiebreaker and slight push fodder for me. Soulkey ranked above Snow because he dominates KCM, Sharp over Mini because of KCM. Hero failed to play well in DSL and failed to qualify for KSL. Because he was in neither tournament, unfortunately as much as I would love to put hero on the list, or even as CBNC, he does not make the cut. Because Hero is going to army on 8/9, so he didn’t play KSL qualifiers. He should be added to Hall of Fame part imo :-)
|
Hero going to army and not participating in any more tours afaik. This PR seems to showcase only current active players. Glad to see its going to become a monthly thing
|
The top 5 players right now are:
1. Flash 2. Soulkey 3. Rain 4. Snow 5. Mini
|
|
Flash's first tournament appearance is going ro send him straight to 1 lol. Still nice seeing rain in good form though
|
Bisutopia19213 Posts
On August 03 2018 19:52 TT1 wrote: The top 5 players right now are:
1. Flash 2. Soulkey 3. Rain 4. Snow 5. Mini Soulkey still has a lot to prove in major tournaments. At least Larva won a gold in something.
|
On August 03 2018 23:38 BisuDagger wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2018 19:52 TT1 wrote: The top 5 players right now are:
1. Flash 2. Soulkey 3. Rain 4. Snow 5. Mini Soulkey still has a lot to prove in major tournaments. At least Larva won a gold in something. Maybe not recent, but Soulkey won WEGL last year (50k prizepool) going 7-0 against Flash, Last and Larva. Also ASL3 semis (2-3 vs Flash) and SSL semis (lost to Free). Also, I'm not a fan of his ZvP, but in the KSL series vs Shuttle, he didn't really go all-in except for the drop game. First 2 game he was going 8 hydra->macro which is standard and commentators were saying how his rush failed, hmm ...
|
Rain looked too good in that ASL final, watch out for him you korean players.
|
FREEAGLELAND26781 Posts
I haven't seen a BW power ranking in so long. Feels good to see this.
|
TLADT24920 Posts
|
Whats the point of a power rank if it has no actual relation to someones abilities? You have vastly over ranked activity and thus made a mockery of everything the power rank ever was. Awful. Flash is the worlds best player, and thus should be number one. Theres no point to this ranking if it doesnt reflect abilities.
|
On August 03 2018 23:38 BisuDagger wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2018 19:52 TT1 wrote: The top 5 players right now are:
1. Flash 2. Soulkey 3. Rain 4. Snow 5. Mini Soulkey still has a lot to prove in major tournaments. At least Larva won a gold in something.
Soulkey has a premier tournament win tho?
WEGL Starcraft Remaster Super Fight
Neo.G Soulkey
|
United States10097 Posts
On August 04 2018 01:35 Dazed. wrote: Whats the point of a power rank if it has no actual relation to someones abilities? You have vastly over ranked activity and thus made a mockery of everything the power rank ever was. Awful. Flash is the worlds best player, and thus should be number one. Theres no point to this ranking if it doesnt reflect abilities. Hi Dazed, I'm glad this is your opinion of what a Power Rank should be. Back in the day with the old PR, they did not need to worry about player activity because every player was always playing in the OSL/MSL/PL. It is must more difficult for us to create a Power Rank without the exact same simulation, as the only offline tournaments we have that are not always running as frequently are KSL and ASL (Moo Proleague takes the place of the old PL but it is nowhere near the seriousness which is why it will not really be considered in the ranking until it feels more competitive). I would love to throw FlaSh at number 1 all the time, don't get me wrong. However, we must reward activity to some extent because a MONTHLY power rank implies just that: how are players doing on a month-to-month basis. If you don't play a single game in a month, why do you deserve any placement?
As an aside to your comment, I made up for it (slightly) by having Larva at 2nd, even though he only played in DSL and didn't make KSL. Hope this clears up why the PR is formatted in such a way. Also, the staff as a whole believed that activity should be weighed more, but it doesn't mean that going to a bunch of crappy small tournaments means you'd be better than someone who only played in one very important tournament. It just means you need to show games to us that we can see to gauge strength.
On August 04 2018 01:15 flamewheel wrote: I haven't seen a BW power ranking in so long. Feels good to see this. Feels good to bring it back :D
On August 03 2018 16:36 sc19980331 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2018 16:27 FlaShFTW wrote:On August 03 2018 16:19 sc19980331 wrote: Where is By.Hero, ZvP Master and rival of Bisu? He got AK in KRS semi finals and 2 kills in final. He’ll dominate PSL if he can participate imo. KCM was mostly tiebreaker and slight push fodder for me. Soulkey ranked above Snow because he dominates KCM, Sharp over Mini because of KCM. Hero failed to play well in DSL and failed to qualify for KSL. Because he was in neither tournament, unfortunately as much as I would love to put hero on the list, or even as CBNC, he does not make the cut. Because Hero is going to army on 8/9, so he didn’t play KSL qualifiers. He should be added to Hall of Fame part imo :-) Ah, I didn't even consider this. :c Now I'm really sad. Hopefully I can throw in a special tribute to hero in the next edition.
Too long ago to consider, with him not playing well at ASL5, and also not making it through Ro16 of DSL. I guess recently he did well in the Last Starleague, but I don't think he's better than Rain atm, especially with his series against Shuttle where I'd rate him at a B- at best in that series.
|
On August 03 2018 19:52 TT1 wrote: The top 5 players right now are:
1. Flash 2. Soulkey 3. Rain 4. Snow 5. Mini
1.Rain 2.Soulkey 3.Flash 4.Mini 5.hero 6.Best 7.Snow 8.Larva 9.Shuttle 10.Stork
|
You realize Soulkey is mostly losing ZvZ's right? In ASL he lost to Mini on Sparkle and a ZvZ, in DSL he lost 2 bo1 ZvZ's. He has a huge edge against anyone except Flash in a BO5.
|
This PR is all messed up. PR is not about results but about how scary a player looks to play against. Action and Stork don´t belong here, Mind and Soulkey are way too high, hero just dismantled a full protoss crew on KCM (Shuttle, Snow, Mini, Horang2) and made them look like crap. In all honesty this looks like whoever made this list didn´t even bother to watch the games.
|
United States10097 Posts
On August 04 2018 02:27 TT1 wrote: You realize Soulkey is mostly losing ZvZ's right? In ASL he lost to Mini on Sparkle and a ZvZ, in DSL he lost 2 bo1 ZvZ's. He has a huge edge against anyone except Flash in a BO5. And he still looked very shakey in his series against Shuttle.
|
United States10097 Posts
On August 04 2018 03:04 Malongo wrote: This PR is all messed up. PR is not about results but about how scary a player looks to play against. Action and Stork don´t belong here, Mind and Soulkey are way too high, hero just dismantled a full protoss crew on KCM (Shuttle, Snow, Mini, Horang2) and made them look like crap. In all honesty this looks like whoever made this list didn´t even bother to watch the games. Please re-read the introduction of the PR to understand the qualifying remarks of this PR. Not every PR is the same, they are not all graded differently.
And I did watch all the games. In fact I spent a whole week catching up watching all games through til the end just so I could see how each game result was, whether it was just cheese or not. So let’s not make these outlandish accusations that people on the staff itself don’t bother watching the games. Criticism is fine, remarks like that are not.
|
On August 04 2018 02:27 TT1 wrote: You realize Soulkey is mostly losing ZvZ's right? In ASL he lost to Mini on Sparkle and a ZvZ, in DSL he lost 2 bo1 ZvZ's. He has a huge edge against anyone except Flash in a BO5. Rain has completely destroyed him in ASL 5 wildcard AND the recent LSL vs ASL winners series(5-1 total). And Rain doesn't seem to put too much effort on sponmatches, Also getting knocked out by Movie on EotS (!) in ASL2, barely winning against Best (and getting destroyed by Bisu) with Outsider/ Andromeda/ CB joke map pool, losing 2-0 to Free in SSL semis.
So yeah, Soulkey has a weak matchup in tournaments, but it's not ZvZ, not until he proves otherwise.
|
@ FlaShFTW: Activity allows us to gauge for ability,you cant reward for it. Ability varies over time, so between activity and known history, a monthly ranking appears. What are you even rewarding? A ranking? The ranking doesnt mean anything if it isnt relative to ability, so it makes no sense to reward for activity. Its a gauge. And lets be real, we dont need flash to be hyper active in any official event for us to all know hes the best player. If you were to move him to the 2nd spot with some rationalization of 'well, rains on fire and has proved himself' that would be one thing. But this? It just makes no sense.
edit: at this point we have far more ability to gauge ability month to month than we ever did in 2006. There were many times in the past where a top player only had a few games in a month, or at least, only a few games against any top players. Now we have hundreds of hours of fpvods every month.
edit2: There was an entire month in 2006 where savior only played one official game, august. That wasnt actually very uncommon, especially before PL really started ramping up its amount of games [which was 2008 or 2007 iirc]. He was far and away the best player. We had the data then. We definitely have the data now.
|
No need for speculation IMO. The current ladder leaderboard is a good indication on the power rankings of BW. Once tournaments stabilize (ASL and KSL) and players follow a more consistent schedule I think rankings will be clear in people's minds.
Here's the current ladder stats: https://starlog.gg/en/leaderboard
1. Flash 2. Soulkey 3. Hero 4. 1234.576.789 (??) 5. Shine 6. Best 7. Larva 8. Rain 9. Flash (Protoss) 10. Mong 11. Jaedong 12. Light 13. ForGG 14. Snow
Sure it's not the end-all of anything but it confirms what I've known for awhile (Flash distant first, Soulkey, Hero and Rain second tier).
|
On August 04 2018 03:10 ortseam wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2018 02:27 TT1 wrote: You realize Soulkey is mostly losing ZvZ's right? In ASL he lost to Mini on Sparkle and a ZvZ, in DSL he lost 2 bo1 ZvZ's. He has a huge edge against anyone except Flash in a BO5. Rain has completely destroyed him in ASL 5 wildcard AND the recent LSL vs ASL winners series(5-1 total). And Rain doesn't seem to put too much effort on sponmatches, Also getting knocked out by Movie on EotS (!) in ASL2, barely winning against Best (and getting destroyed by Bisu) with Outsider/ Andromeda/ CB joke map pool, losing 2-0 to Free in SSL semis. So yeah, Soulkey has a weak matchup in tournaments, but it's not ZvZ, not until he proves otherwise.
Lmao most of the tournaments you're talking about happened back when he just switched to BW from SC2. Also why wouldn't Rain "put much effort on sponmatches"? They're matches for money, why wouldn't he try to win (he has nothing to lose)?
All i see is a bunch of BS just to fit your narrative, watch KSL and educate yourself on some BW. All you need to do is watch the group drawings just to see how terrified everyone was of playing vs SK.
|
Surprised Shine isn't in the top 10
|
Bisutopia19213 Posts
On August 04 2018 04:30 EndingLife wrote: Surprised Shine isn't in the top 10 I argued for Shine over Mind. He can be pretty scary when he wants to.
|
On August 04 2018 04:08 TT1 wrote: Lmao most of the tournaments you're talking about happened back when he just switched to BW from SC2. Also why wouldn't Rain "put much effort on sponmatches"? They're matches for money, why wouldn't he try to win (he has nothing to lose)?
Most losses were mid-2017 and he came back October 2016? Or at least started streaming. And Rain losses are super recent , he should be above Larva but still has things to prove in BoX play, compared to the ASL champion at least.
|
On August 04 2018 01:35 Dazed. wrote: Whats the point of a power rank if it has no actual relation to someones abilities? You have vastly over ranked activity and thus made a mockery of everything the power rank ever was. Awful. Flash is the worlds best player, and thus should be number one. Theres no point to this ranking if it doesnt reflect abilities. To introduce the players to people new to following the scene.
Imo Soulkey is better than Larva.
|
On August 04 2018 06:00 Alpha-NP- wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2018 01:35 Dazed. wrote: Whats the point of a power rank if it has no actual relation to someones abilities? You have vastly over ranked activity and thus made a mockery of everything the power rank ever was. Awful. Flash is the worlds best player, and thus should be number one. Theres no point to this ranking if it doesnt reflect abilities. To introduce the players to people new to following the scene. Imo Soulkey is better than Larva. You introduce them by essentially giving totally false information regarding their relative rankings? Couldnt you introduce them to players with accurate information? Please...
|
this would be less debatable if it was named July 2018 power rank. DSL3 ended on July 23 and the last KSL group played on July 27. an August power rank really should incorporate the new battle.net MMR. you can make it weigh less than all the other results, but it should still be enough to put Flash in the top 10.
|
This is a bad ranking. You really need to value sponsored matchups way more than asl. Most Koreans consider ASL to be somewhat not accurate in reflecting true skills due to ridiculous maps. Flash is ridiculously good at 73% sponsored win rate and most pros take sponsored matchups very seriously and these are played in balanced maps that truly reflect skills.
|
United States10328 Posts
what happened to last recently?
|
Bisutopia19213 Posts
On August 04 2018 06:39 ]343[ wrote:what happened to last recently?  He either loses or has very poor wins.
|
Bulgaria750 Posts
Soulkey is scary and he has been since he beat Flash at ATB.
He was scary in ASL3, but Flash managed to beat him 3:2.
He was scary as hell in ASL4, got killed narrowly in a zvz.
He was scary as hell before ASL 5, got outplayed by a decent margin by Rain in the wildcard match and then didn't make it out of his group.
I still consider him very scary, especially in ZvT. But burden of proof lies with him, he has to tell everyone that there's a reason he looks so good.
|
On August 04 2018 07:57 TaardadAiel wrote: Soulkey is scary and he has been since he beat Flash at ATB.
He was scary in ASL3, but Flash managed to beat him 3:2.
He was scary as hell in ASL4, got killed narrowly in a zvz.
He was scary as hell before ASL 5, got outplayed by a decent margin by Rain in the wildcard match and then didn't make it out of his group.
I still consider him very scary, especially in ZvT. But burden of proof lies with him, he has to tell everyone that there's a reason he looks so good. I do agree with that. He feels like a zerg version of what sea was for 90% of his career. Seemingly incredibly talented, definitely always looking good and then...poof, goes no where.
|
On August 04 2018 08:12 Dazed. wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2018 07:57 TaardadAiel wrote: Soulkey is scary and he has been since he beat Flash at ATB.
He was scary in ASL3, but Flash managed to beat him 3:2.
He was scary as hell in ASL4, got killed narrowly in a zvz.
He was scary as hell before ASL 5, got outplayed by a decent margin by Rain in the wildcard match and then didn't make it out of his group.
I still consider him very scary, especially in ZvT. But burden of proof lies with him, he has to tell everyone that there's a reason he looks so good. I do agree with that. He feels like a zerg version of what sea was for 90% of his career. Seemingly incredibly talented, definitely always looking good and then...poof, goes no where. Can't really agree. Sea's TvP always felt suspect, and I'd say that he was a midrank A-tier player in his prime. Soulkey had surpassed him in skill before KeSPA era had ended, and I can't point to a single specific weakpoint or match-up for him. I'd consider him to be a top 10 player over the past half year consecutively, in the admittedly more limited pool we have now, something that I think Sea never really managed to achieve.
|
As of late, Flash has showed signs of being human after all. That fastest guy 458, Snow, Rain, and some others has clearly affected his self-confidence. Prolly lack of motivation also, and dodging DSL and KSL(ok, he has a match in China) clearly the guy has too much to lose.
While on the very top of a discipline or a sport, many people are scared to lose their throne. Not saying he will disappear like Bobby, but the guy is clearly in a slump right now. I think Flash is too good and too clever to not step back, but i am interested to see how he does it in the near future, especially with the current popularity bw has reached lately.
|
On August 04 2018 09:02 TornadoSteve wrote: As of late, Flash has showed signs of being human after all. That fastest guy 458, Snow, Rain, and some others has clearly affected his self-confidence. Prolly lack of motivation also, and dodging DSL and KSL(ok, he has a match in China) clearly the guy has too much to lose.
While on the very top of a discipline or a sport, many people are scared to lose their throne. Not saying he will disappear like Bobby, but the guy is clearly in a slump right now. I think Flash is too good and too clever to not step back, but i am interested to see how he does it in the near future, especially with the current popularity bw has reached lately.
He's not in slump. Wth are you talkin about. He's posting all time high ELO(sponsored matchups) and destroying everyone on ladder. He literally lost to a protoss on extremely imba protoss maps.
|
On August 04 2018 08:27 Jealous wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2018 08:12 Dazed. wrote:On August 04 2018 07:57 TaardadAiel wrote: Soulkey is scary and he has been since he beat Flash at ATB.
He was scary in ASL3, but Flash managed to beat him 3:2.
He was scary as hell in ASL4, got killed narrowly in a zvz.
He was scary as hell before ASL 5, got outplayed by a decent margin by Rain in the wildcard match and then didn't make it out of his group.
I still consider him very scary, especially in ZvT. But burden of proof lies with him, he has to tell everyone that there's a reason he looks so good. I do agree with that. He feels like a zerg version of what sea was for 90% of his career. Seemingly incredibly talented, definitely always looking good and then...poof, goes no where. Can't really agree. Sea's TvP always felt suspect, and I'd say that he was a midrank A-tier player in his prime. Soulkey had surpassed him in skill before KeSPA era had ended, and I can't point to a single specific weakpoint or match-up for him. I'd consider him to be a top 10 player over the past half year consecutively, in the admittedly more limited pool we have now, something that I think Sea never really managed to achieve. Thing is though, the rumours were that Sea was a lot like Nada, lazy and unmotivated compared to his peers yet still really strong. He also had massive performance anxiety. I dont know if the hype was ever true, but thats the point: he was said to be one thing, but only got out of group stages like once or twice in his prime during kespa. Soulkey might be fated for something similar [clearly done more to prove himself than sea did during that era tho]. Like the other guy said, hes got to prove he can make it on the biggest stage. Sometimes greats never translate when the pressures really on. Canata only managed one good run and he was said to rival oov or anyone during practice!
|
Bisutopia19213 Posts
On August 04 2018 09:58 Dazed. wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2018 08:27 Jealous wrote:On August 04 2018 08:12 Dazed. wrote:On August 04 2018 07:57 TaardadAiel wrote: Soulkey is scary and he has been since he beat Flash at ATB.
He was scary in ASL3, but Flash managed to beat him 3:2.
He was scary as hell in ASL4, got killed narrowly in a zvz.
He was scary as hell before ASL 5, got outplayed by a decent margin by Rain in the wildcard match and then didn't make it out of his group.
I still consider him very scary, especially in ZvT. But burden of proof lies with him, he has to tell everyone that there's a reason he looks so good. I do agree with that. He feels like a zerg version of what sea was for 90% of his career. Seemingly incredibly talented, definitely always looking good and then...poof, goes no where. Can't really agree. Sea's TvP always felt suspect, and I'd say that he was a midrank A-tier player in his prime. Soulkey had surpassed him in skill before KeSPA era had ended, and I can't point to a single specific weakpoint or match-up for him. I'd consider him to be a top 10 player over the past half year consecutively, in the admittedly more limited pool we have now, something that I think Sea never really managed to achieve. Thing is though, the rumours were that Sea was a lot like Nada, lazy and unmotivated compared to his peers yet still really strong. He also had massive performance anxiety. I dont know if the hype was ever true, but thats the point: he was said to be one thing, but only got out of group stages like once or twice in his prime during kespa. Soulkey might be fated for something similar [clearly done more to prove himself than sea did during that era tho]. Like the other guy said, hes got to prove he can make it on the biggest stage. Sometimes greats never translate when the pressures really on. Canata only managed one good run and he was said to rival oov or anyone during practice! Sea had a prolific career during the Sospa era. He has to an extent shown what he can earn when he is trying his hardest.
|
On August 04 2018 09:15 Shinokuki wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2018 09:02 TornadoSteve wrote: As of late, Flash has showed signs of being human after all. That fastest guy 458, Snow, Rain, and some others has clearly affected his self-confidence. Prolly lack of motivation also, and dodging DSL and KSL(ok, he has a match in China) clearly the guy has too much to lose.
While on the very top of a discipline or a sport, many people are scared to lose their throne. Not saying he will disappear like Bobby, but the guy is clearly in a slump right now. I think Flash is too good and too clever to not step back, but i am interested to see how he does it in the near future, especially with the current popularity bw has reached lately. He's not in slump. Wth are you talkin about. He's posting all time high ELO(sponsored matchups) and destroying everyone on ladder. He literally lost to a protoss on extremely imba protoss maps. I'm tired of people blaming the map despite Flash explicitly asking fans to compliment Snow instead. Only Transistor was P favoured with around 35% winrate for Terrans (ELO-wise), and Flash won that one. Sparkle is Terran favoured, 3rd world is slightly Protoss favoured, and Gladiator is just about balanced. As long as TvP goes, this isn't too bad balancing-wise, if you consider the fact that Fighting Spirit boasts a 60% Terran winrate. Flash didn't lose to the maps, he lost to Snow.
The real issue was that the map pool pretty much decimated all the Zergs. Zergs lose to both Terran and Protoss on Third World, and in Sparkle they beat Terran lightly but get smashed by Protoss.
Data from sponbbang, using ELO-wise winrates.
|
TLADT24920 Posts
On August 04 2018 10:47 RWLabs wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2018 09:15 Shinokuki wrote:On August 04 2018 09:02 TornadoSteve wrote: As of late, Flash has showed signs of being human after all. That fastest guy 458, Snow, Rain, and some others has clearly affected his self-confidence. Prolly lack of motivation also, and dodging DSL and KSL(ok, he has a match in China) clearly the guy has too much to lose.
While on the very top of a discipline or a sport, many people are scared to lose their throne. Not saying he will disappear like Bobby, but the guy is clearly in a slump right now. I think Flash is too good and too clever to not step back, but i am interested to see how he does it in the near future, especially with the current popularity bw has reached lately. He's not in slump. Wth are you talkin about. He's posting all time high ELO(sponsored matchups) and destroying everyone on ladder. He literally lost to a protoss on extremely imba protoss maps. I'm tired of people blaming the map despite Flash explicitly asking fans to compliment Snow instead. Only Transistor was P favoured with around 35% winrate for Terrans (ELO-wise), and Flash won that one. Sparkle is Terran favoured, 3rd world is slightly Protoss favoured, and Gladiator is just about balanced. As long as TvP goes, this isn't too bad balancing-wise, if you consider the fact that Fighting Spirit boasts a 60% Terran winrate. Flash didn't lose to the maps, he lost to Snow. The real issue was that the map pool pretty much decimated all the Zergs. Zergs lose to both Terran and Protoss on Third World, and in Sparkle they beat Terran lightly but get smashed by Protoss. Data from sponbbang, using ELO-wise winrates. While I agree with the previous poster that Flash is not in a slump, Flash lost to Snow, fair and square. While the maps can play a role, Flash lost on Gladiator too. Not like every map in the previous ASL was heavily protoss favoured lol. Snow was just the better player who played with confidence and knew what to do that series.
|
On August 04 2018 09:58 Dazed. wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2018 08:27 Jealous wrote:On August 04 2018 08:12 Dazed. wrote:On August 04 2018 07:57 TaardadAiel wrote: Soulkey is scary and he has been since he beat Flash at ATB.
He was scary in ASL3, but Flash managed to beat him 3:2.
He was scary as hell in ASL4, got killed narrowly in a zvz.
He was scary as hell before ASL 5, got outplayed by a decent margin by Rain in the wildcard match and then didn't make it out of his group.
I still consider him very scary, especially in ZvT. But burden of proof lies with him, he has to tell everyone that there's a reason he looks so good. I do agree with that. He feels like a zerg version of what sea was for 90% of his career. Seemingly incredibly talented, definitely always looking good and then...poof, goes no where. Can't really agree. Sea's TvP always felt suspect, and I'd say that he was a midrank A-tier player in his prime. Soulkey had surpassed him in skill before KeSPA era had ended, and I can't point to a single specific weakpoint or match-up for him. I'd consider him to be a top 10 player over the past half year consecutively, in the admittedly more limited pool we have now, something that I think Sea never really managed to achieve. Thing is though, the rumours were that Sea was a lot like Nada, lazy and unmotivated compared to his peers yet still really strong. He also had massive performance anxiety. I dont know if the hype was ever true, but thats the point: he was said to be one thing, but only got out of group stages like once or twice in his prime during kespa. Soulkey might be fated for something similar [clearly done more to prove himself than sea did during that era tho]. Like the other guy said, hes got to prove he can make it on the biggest stage. Sometimes greats never translate when the pressures really on. Canata only managed one good run and he was said to rival oov or anyone during practice! As you mention, we've heard this practice monster story told over and over throughout BW's history. If it doesn't amount to much on stage, then it's all just hearsay and hype IMO. If a player can't perform when it matters, then why count anything else?
On August 04 2018 10:44 BisuDagger wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2018 09:58 Dazed. wrote:On August 04 2018 08:27 Jealous wrote:On August 04 2018 08:12 Dazed. wrote:On August 04 2018 07:57 TaardadAiel wrote: Soulkey is scary and he has been since he beat Flash at ATB.
He was scary in ASL3, but Flash managed to beat him 3:2.
He was scary as hell in ASL4, got killed narrowly in a zvz.
He was scary as hell before ASL 5, got outplayed by a decent margin by Rain in the wildcard match and then didn't make it out of his group.
I still consider him very scary, especially in ZvT. But burden of proof lies with him, he has to tell everyone that there's a reason he looks so good. I do agree with that. He feels like a zerg version of what sea was for 90% of his career. Seemingly incredibly talented, definitely always looking good and then...poof, goes no where. Can't really agree. Sea's TvP always felt suspect, and I'd say that he was a midrank A-tier player in his prime. Soulkey had surpassed him in skill before KeSPA era had ended, and I can't point to a single specific weakpoint or match-up for him. I'd consider him to be a top 10 player over the past half year consecutively, in the admittedly more limited pool we have now, something that I think Sea never really managed to achieve. Thing is though, the rumours were that Sea was a lot like Nada, lazy and unmotivated compared to his peers yet still really strong. He also had massive performance anxiety. I dont know if the hype was ever true, but thats the point: he was said to be one thing, but only got out of group stages like once or twice in his prime during kespa. Soulkey might be fated for something similar [clearly done more to prove himself than sea did during that era tho]. Like the other guy said, hes got to prove he can make it on the biggest stage. Sometimes greats never translate when the pressures really on. Canata only managed one good run and he was said to rival oov or anyone during practice! Sea had a prolific career during the Sospa era. He has to an extent shown what he can earn when he is trying his hardest.
I think it was a case of a medium fish becoming big in a smaller pond. Not to say he didn't try, but I don't think he had to try much harder than normal to be better than the rest with TBLS and other S-class players out of the picture.
|
Slump is may be not the right word here, but his self-confidence is clearly affected at the moment. And anyone who played this game at a certain level knows exactly what im talking about.
|
That mine on probes!!! LOL Game starts at 52min into the stream for anyone wondering
|
On August 04 2018 11:10 TornadoSteve wrote: Slump is may be not the right word here, but his self-confidence is clearly affected at the moment. And anyone who played this game at a certain level knows exactly what im talking about.
How do you know this? I’m Korean and I also play be so I know both sides. Flash is still at peak level right now lol
|
Bulgaria750 Posts
Protosses are just getting stronger. Rain, Snow and Mini are all monsters, Best is almost up there with them and Shuttle is a formidable player in his own right. Rain is obviously the most balanced and comprehensive player out there, being a beast in all matchups, but Snow proved he's one of the best if not the best PvT-ers currently time and time again.
Flash lost to his game sense failing him or rather Snow playing around it, on Gladiator specifically. He never knew Snow would continue to harass with reaver/shuttle so late into the game. Flash is the master of defense for Terran, guys, and he is mental as far as anticipating correctly stuff that is otherwise unlikely. Stuff like that doesn't happen for no reason.
Third World was a nightmare for Terran vs Protoss back when it was introduced, I recall Stork having 4 or 5 consecutive wins over Flash on that map in sponmatches. Allowing for a fifth game on that map - and Flash had already lost the first game they played there - was fairly dangerous. Gladiator was where the series was decided, for me at least. Flash was in the driver's seat, he was exactly in the position he wanted to be, and he still lost.
I am more than happy with the Power Rank as it is. We'll have to follow Flash, I'm fairly confident that he'll still be a major force to be reckoned with.
|
Well its just an opinion... Based on what ?
The fact that it seems to tilt him to keep losing to that 458 guy... in both tvp and pvt.
The fact that hes clearly dodging some events as of late
Not saying hes in a big hole or wtv, just saying hes showing signs of being human lately. Prolly cuz the very bests behind him are getting better... Its just my opinion, i dont pretend to know more than anyone.
|
|
|
On August 04 2018 19:40 TornadoSteve wrote: Well its just an opinion... Based on what ?
The fact that it seems to tilt him to keep losing to that 458 guy... in both tvp and pvt.
The fact that hes clearly dodging some events as of late
Not saying hes in a big hole or wtv, just saying hes showing signs of being human lately. Prolly cuz the very bests behind him are getting better... Its just my opinion, i dont pretend to know more than anyone.
he's challenging himself to use terran vs protoss on fastest map. No one uses terran on fastest map because its so disavantaged. He is using 458 to bring new contents to his stream. He's challenging the fastest map landscape because he's ultimately bored. He's dodging events?? he had to dodge KSL because it was conflicting with chinese events. This is just wrong interpretation my god.
|
I always interpreted the Power Rank as "Who would have the highest chance of winning the next tournament: An interpretation of the evidence." Lack of evidence from a player doesn't mean they have zero chance of winning, it just means the PR writer needs to look a little deeper and consider, say, recent performance in sponsored matches --- or just make an educated guess.
I appreciate having the PR back but this way of doing it doesn't make much sense to me :-)
|
I think it's safe to say we need to immediately and without hesitation hand this guy the crown, the championship belt, and the #1 spot on the Power Rank.
|
Flash shud be no1 even if he had a bit of time out... 3 asls
|
|
On August 17 2018 21:33 MarlieChurphy wrote: What about my boy, jd?
10000% he’ll be on next months.
He hadn’t been playing well enough to deserve it until he killed off a top 2 TvZ player (Light possibly better than Flash in TvZ) and a top PvZ player in Shuttle, and then reverse swept Snow.
His KSL has been excellent and I hope he makes it in to the playoffs of ASL6 so we can see the Bo5 JD in full force until he joins the army.
|
Please update, Jaedong #1 :-)
|
My top 5 recent bw players Flash Jaedong Rain Soulkey Mind (Interchangeable)
|
1)Bisu Flash Soulkey/Jaedong Last Rain
im Bisu/ASL bias.
|
On August 28 2018 11:54 Duceman wrote:10000% he’ll be on NEXT months. He hadn’t been playing well enough to deserve it until he killed off a Top 2 TvZ player (Light possibly better than Flash in TvZ) and a Top PvZ player in Shuttle, and then Reverse swept Snow. His KSL Has been Excellent and I hope he makes it in to the playoffs of ASL6 so we can see the Bo5 JD in full force until he joins the army.
"Light possibly better than Flash in TvZ" - ahahahahahaa nice Try boy XD But you're right - JD is going to be reaaaally high in next Power Rank, that's for sure! He also started very nice in ASL so there's no doubt about this!
|
|
|
|