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Hey teamliquid,
I have an inquiry about Scmdraft 2, which I've been using to make and edit a brood war map. I have two questions pertaining to my newest push the latest changes I'm trying to implement.
First off, the map in question is Diplomacy or War 1939 BX3.208, which you can find a post for here on team liquid or over on Staredit.
I'm using scmdraft 2.0.
Now for actual question/issue.
I'm having an issue with players massing one particular unit, and after consulting with someone who actually knows what he's doing, (co-map creator of current iteration of BX3.201-present Line of maps, Shyguy) he informed me that there's no way to edit the cap "supply space" statistic?
We agreed that there is a dual issue of macro and micro gameplay. We agreed on making changes to the damage/armor of said unit to balance it, but preferably we'd also hit the statistics that, more intuitively, have to do with the macro use: which is namely mineral/resource cost, and most quintessentially, its supply values The specific unit in question is an unsieged tank. It's just too good for 2 supply out of the 200 limit in my usermap. I want it to be 3 supply, but apparently I can't edit that?
Thank you so much if you're able to help.
Finally, I know its bit dubious, but I'm looking for a reliable map unlocker. Dual purpose of mapmakers of other diplomacy maps I want to learn from are not available (with the mapmakers long gone) and I also genuinely got locked out of my own map before and, yes while its dumb and I recovered, while I'm here I'd like to know any pointers.
Best regards,
blitzburns4
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It's been over a decade since I last touched the editor, so my terminology will be off, but if I remember correctly there is no way to modify the amount of supply that a unit takes up. Instead, I'd suggest working around the problem. For example, you could have a secluded area with a location set up on it. Make it so that IF Player X has 1 tank on the map (create a location that covers the entirety of the whole playing field) THEN spawn 1 civilian on the secluded area and make the civilian immortal (I forget what term the editor used) so that the player won't be able to kill it with air units. Then IF Player X loses 1 tank THEN kill 1 civilian. This way you can essentially make tanks cost 3 supply. I hope that helps.
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EUD can change supply quite easily. Not sure if you want to go down that road though.
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FK, thank you for your timely response.
This is a solution I didn't even think of, intuitively that can actually work particularly if I update the patch notes accordingly. I'll talk it over with Shyguy and discuss what the best option is.
EUD can change supply quite easily. Not sure if you want to go down that road though.
Yeah it seems impressive what EUDS can accomplish. To be honest I didn't even know these existed as a concept until today. I found this handy guide and this (somewhat hilarious) video. Do you have any intimate knowledge of EUDs? Getting a rough estimate of how hard using EUDs to accomplish this versus FK's method would be a huge help. Just looking at that guide and video, though, this seems to be some high level stuff and, as you may know, using scmdraft is pretty intuitive even for a Layman.
Thank you both lots for your input. I appreciate your time because this is an annoying balance issue that is very difficult to solve with just edited numbers for damage/armor/minerals.
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On May 20 2018 22:29 blitzburns4 wrote:Hey teamliquid, I have an inquiry about Scmdraft 2, which I've been using to make and edit a brood war map. I have two questions pertaining to my newest push the latest changes I'm trying to implement. First off, the map in question is Diplomacy or War 1939 BX3.208, which you can find a post for here on team liquid or over on Staredit. I'm using scmdraft 2.0. Which version exactly? Are you aware of the newest releases?
Now for actual question/issue.
I'm having an issue with players massing one particular unit, and after consulting with someone who actually knows what he's doing, (co-map creator of current iteration of BX3.201-present Line of maps, Shyguy) he informed me that there's no way to edit the cap "supply space" statistic?
We agreed that there is a dual issue of macro and micro gameplay. We agreed on making changes to the damage/armor of said unit to balance it, but preferably we'd also hit the statistics that, more intuitively, have to do with the macro use: which is namely mineral/resource cost, and most quintessentially, its supply values The specific unit in question is an unsieged tank. It's just too good for 2 supply out of the 200 limit in my usermap. I want it to be 3 supply, but apparently I can't edit that?
Thank you so much if you're able to help. You cannot just modify that. Maybe there is a way to do it via EUD triggers. Staredit.net is the better place to ask about that.
Finally, I know its bit dubious, but I'm looking for a reliable map unlocker. Dual purpose of mapmakers of other diplomacy maps I want to learn from are not available (with the mapmakers long gone) and I also genuinely got locked out of my own map before and, yes while its dumb and I recovered, while I'm here I'd like to know any pointers. Best regards, blitzburns4
On May 21 2018 05:01 FK wrote:
It's been over a decade since I last touched the editor, so my terminology will be off, but if I remember correctly there is no way to modify the amount of supply that a unit takes up. Instead, I'd suggest working around the problem. For example, you could have a secluded area with a location set up on it. Make it so that IF Player X has 1 tank on the map (create a location that covers the entirety of the whole playing field) THEN spawn 1 civilian on the secluded area and make the civilian immortal (I forget what term the editor used) so that the player won't be able to kill it with air units. Then IF Player X loses 1 tank THEN kill 1 civilian. This way you can essentially make tanks cost 3 supply. I hope that helps.
Civilians are hero units. Their supply cost is 0… Any infantry unit or SCVs would work, though.
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Hi freakling. Thank you a bunch for stopping by.
You cannot just modify that. Maybe there is a way to do it via EUD triggers. Staredit.net is the better place to ask about that.
My friend delivered this news to me fairly quickly. It's unfortunate that such a simple statistic isn't able to be edited/"editable" along the same lines as things like damage, armor, mineral cost, etc. But we're determined that this is a change for our map that is very important, if we can manage it.
It's funny you should mention Staredit.
You seriously cannot find some map unprotectors on your own? O_o
Currently, our priority for 1939 is fixing the unit balance. Yes, I was an idiot and locked myself out. That's genuine and is a real concern considering I'm not always 100 percent of the time with my gaming pc, and neither is shyguy. We're both friends IRL at college. But there are other goals/issues too, like AI, which are tremendously difficult to implement which we aspire to add into 1939 to keep gameplay diverse. We can only learn so much from looking at posts and editorials online. There are genuine diplomacy maps out there--like Diplomacy Supergun--that have the exact type of programming we're looking for. All we're trying to do is learn.
The constant cat-and-mouse of the later 2000s between cheaters and mapmakers means its impossible to know the latest, best iteration of an unlocker without a personal reference--if one even exists. It's like those floating ominous mines of WW2 that are annoying long after the conflict has ended, so to speak. Most of the mapmakers themselves are long gone, otherwise I'd not feel comfortable poking at someone else's work.
Civilians are hero units. Their supply cost is 0… Any infantry unit or SCVs would work, though.
Yeah. And considering players can have anywhere between 50-100 tanks end game. This isn't going to be practical. I agree. We need an EUD.
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I thought not all EUDs are playable on 1.20 or w/e version we are on now (SCR). Or was it that a few older EUD maps were patched out?
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On May 21 2018 08:51 JungleTerrain wrote:
I thought not all EUDs are playable on 1.20 or w/e version we are on now (SCR). Or was it that a few older EUD maps were patched out?
Check out the Staredit Conversation I linked in my last response. Couple really knowledgable people are in they addressed this same point.
Here. I'll quote the latest response by a really knowledgeable fellow named Lanthanide.
The EUDs supported in SCR will work on MAC as well as PC.
It's only in 1.16.1 or earlier that you have to worry about MAC vs PC.
Similarly, the EUDs supported in SCR will NEVER change between versions (although more might be added in future versions, existing ones will not disappear or change address).
Yes, a lot of documentation around EUDs, having been produced in the 1.16.1 era, are now out of date. We also have better tools now (EUD Editor 2, linked earlier in this thread).
Link to conversation: http://www.staredit.net/topic/17602/#10
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EPT
