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I was confused while analyzing some replays using ChaosLauncher + StatInfo plugin enabled (You can watch how to here).
At some point when pressing Ctrl+E it says player1 has 7 Pylons, this meant to me 7*8+(9, the beginning supply count)= 65, but no it was 83. I searched for a long time to find an explanation for that, but nothing, I thought its some kind of out-of-sync issue that happens with the replays, but its not even an UMS map !
So for slow analysis I opened the replay in http://www.openbw.com/replay-viewer and by going backward/forward in the replay.......
I was astonished by this fact, Protoss has 3 Nexus=27 + 7*8(56)=83 !
Why this info no where to be found, or nobody talk about it ?
To all the argumentative Gosu(es) that think this fact is common sense, the guy h e r e tutoring players about Protoss race, never mentioned this simple fact, although its printed on the damn Nexus diagram, is he newbie ?
I actually don't won't to argue more in this topic, if someone think this is 1,2,3, please tell me some facts that automatically and dramatically affect the game play but we don't know it.
I'm still sure that despite the votes, at least half of Broodwar players, doesn't know about it, or how to exploit it.
Unfortunately despite I'm giving all the possible options in the Poll, most of the voters think they born playing SC, and instead of picking the real reason for their knowledge, they arrogantly pick the funny one, which makes the poll result unfair.
Poll: Did you know that before ?Yes of course I know it, you're just a chobo ! (94) 84% Yes, from http://liquipedia.net/starcraft/Nexus (0) 0% Yes, by reading some article (1) 1% Yes, from video (0) 0% Yes, by playing/testing (9) 8% No, strange (8) 7% 112 total votes Your vote: Did you know that before ? (Vote): Yes of course I know it, you're just a chobo !
(Vote): Yes, from http://liquipedia.net/starcraft/Nexus
(Vote): Yes, by reading some article
(Vote): Yes, from video
(Vote): Yes, by playing/testing
(Vote): No, strange
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What.
On March 01 2018 11:56 Moataz wrote:
I was astonished by this fact, Protoss has 3 Nexus=27 + 7*8(56)=83 !
Why this info no where to be found, or nobody talk about it ?
Protoss Imbalance explained?
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today you learned that all town hall structures give supply
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You start w/ 9 supply and no pylons
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On March 01 2018 11:56 Moataz wrote:I was confused while analyzing some replays using ChaosLauncher + StatInfo plugin enabled (You can watch how to here). At some point when pressing Ctrl+E it says player1 has 7 Pylons, this meant to me 7*8+(9, the beginning supply count)= 65, but no it was 83. I searched for a long time to find an explanation for that, but nothing, I thought its some kind of out-of-sync issue that happens with the replays, but its not even an UMS map ! So for slow analysis I opened the replay in http://www.openbw.com/replay-viewer and by going backward/forward in the replay....... I was astonished by this fact, Protoss has 3 Nexus=27 + 7*8(56)=83 ! Why this info no where to be found, or nobody talk about it ?
CC gives 10 supply, Nexus gives 9 psi, Hatchery gives 1 control
I assume the difference between the CC and Nex is because pylons build faster than depots, and you can also send your probe right back to mining with P whereas the SCV has to keep building the depot.
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On March 01 2018 11:56 Moataz wrote:
Why this info no where to be found, or nobody talk about it ?
 Nexus
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On March 01 2018 12:50 jello_biafra wrote:
CC gives 10 supply, Nexus gives 9 psi, Hatchery gives 1 control
I assume the difference between the CC and Nex is because pylons build faster than depots, and you can also send your probe right back to mining with P whereas the SCV has to keep building the depot.
Thanks, this one of the most overlooked facts, I was wondering why the supply count doesn't increase by 8 for each supply.
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it's also why builds like 12 nexus and 13cc exist, to use the second town hall as supply
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Why this info no where to be found, or nobody talk about it ?
This one of the most overlooked facts
Dude if you're not trolling you gotta chill man.
+ Show Spoiler +
I admire how everyone is being so civil in their replies.
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In case you wonder, infested command center neither provides zerg or terran supply. 
Also, if you were to mind control a queen.. with queen infest a command center.. you would still need to mind control an overlord (or a drone to build the whole tech) to produce infested terrans.
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On March 01 2018 17:26 kogeT wrote:In case you wonder, infested command center neither provides zerg or terran supply.
Thank you, thats logical, if I know OP fact, the cc considered destroyed, although I didn't test.
On March 01 2018 17:26 kogeT wrote:
Also, if you were to mind control a queen.. with queen infest a command center.. you would still need to mind control an overlord (or a drone to build the whole tech) to produce infested terrans.
That's also logical, each race has his own supply.
But how the heck, could someone know that Bases gives supply !
On March 01 2018 17:02 JieXian wrote:
Dude if you're not trolling you gotta chill man.
I admire how everyone is being so civil in their replies.
I'm not trolling of course, and curious to know how everyone knew this info instead of pretending its common sense, at least I discovered it by myself.
There is so many facts that one can know it by playing (like Maelstrom blinds Overloads), but this?
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I'm pretty sure it says it on every CC, nexus, and hatchery, and when you expand you might notice the supply increase.
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Do you guys ever wonder how they decided to place the numbers there?
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On March 01 2018 11:56 Moataz wrote:I was astonished by this fact, Protoss has 3 Nexus=27 + 7*8(56)=83 !
Why this info no where to be found, or nobody talk about it ? Shush! Not so loud! They can hear you! Trust me, those Psi Blades really hurt!
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On March 01 2018 19:02 Freakling wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2018 11:56 Moataz wrote:I was astonished by this fact, Protoss has 3 Nexus=27 + 7*8(56)=83 !
Why this info no where to be found, or nobody talk about it ? Shush! Not so loud! They can head you! Trust me, those Psi Blades really hurt!
I don't understand.
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On March 01 2018 17:26 kogeT wrote:In case you wonder, infested command center neither provides zerg or terran supply. Also, if you were to mind control a queen.. with queen infest a command center.. you would still need to mind control an overlord (or a drone to build the whole tech) to produce infested terrans.
But it doesn't really classify as a town hall considering you can't build workers and return resources to it.
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On March 01 2018 18:25 Sero wrote:
I'm pretty sure it says it on every CC, nexus, and hatchery, and when you expand you might notice the supply increase.
Really !, I played that game since 21 years ago till now (not frequently) and didn't notice anything !
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On March 01 2018 12:23 yubo56 wrote:
You start w/ 9 supply and no pylons
This
This should have tipped the OP off
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On March 01 2018 19:00 rice_devOurer wrote:
Do you guys ever wonder how they decided to place the numbers there?
It's simple:
- zergs gets only 1 because it starts with an overlord (and allows you to play in case you lose all ovies - so you can make 1 drone) = 9 supply total
- protoss starts with 9 supply to match zerg (you could argue that zerg loses the drone when building, but zerg also produces initial drones faster)
- terran starts with 10 supply as building SCV will not be mining
Afterwards ovie / pylon / depot gives same 8 supply.
So the theory was to give all 3 races a somehow same economical start. Of course there is also mining rate differencies etc. but all in all that is how they figured that out I guess.
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I don't understand how you could NOT know this, it even says right on the nexus
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/vkVITNZ.jpg)
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On March 01 2018 22:36 razorsuKe wrote:I don't understand how you could NOT know this, it even says right on the nexus
Then "Psi provided: 9" ONLY should be mentioned to avoid clutter. and even with that, it would still be unclear/counter-intuitive to me, I finished the campaign more than once, but I didn't find a reason to stare at every building to see what it does. at least they should make "Psi provided: 9" with different color  to make player notice.
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On March 01 2018 23:20 Moataz wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2018 22:36 razorsuKe wrote:I don't understand how you could NOT know this, it even says right on the nexus Then "Psi provided: 9" ONLY should be mentioned to avoid clutter. and even with that, it would still be unclear/counter-intuitive to me, I finished the campaign more than once, but I didn't find a reason to stare at every building to see what it does. at least they should make " Psi provided: 9" with different color to make player notice.
Yeah yeah and let's add automining, multiselect and smartcasting also, huh? :D 
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I did not know that. Neither I needed to. I feel my life has improved now.
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Wtf, knowing that is like knowing that you need spawning pool to create zerglings. o_O
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Common knowledge.
Although I agree the info screen is cluttered and should only have "PSI Provided". Listing the same info twice on the same screen is bad UI.
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On March 01 2018 22:36 razorsuKe wrote:I don't understand how you could NOT know this, it even says right on the nexus
Haha razorsuke that was pretty funny.
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i started my protoss career recently so yesterday i was playing a pvp and i had the great idea of making 2 archons and maelstrom my oponents army,turns out this spell doesnt work with dragons and archons lmao.
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On March 01 2018 17:26 kogeT wrote:In case you wonder, infested command center neither provides zerg or terran supply. Also, if you were to mind control a queen.. with queen infest a command center.. you would still need to mind control an overlord (or a drone to build the whole tech) to produce infested terrans.
OH!
I never thought about that.
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Nah man, what they should really do is change the supply count display to:
List the number of Nexus'es you have
Have a blinking red popup on each Nexus saying THIS BUILDING PROVIDES 9 PSI
List a percentage of what supply you're filled up to. You do you man/girl/xhe! Don't be oppressed by someone's "13 nex", with their precise numbers. It's the 21st century, you get to identify with whatever Nexus timing makes you most comfortable. With percentages, you can "0.866 Nexus" at 13/15 supply, 54/63 supply, even 117/135 supply. Percentages tell you how optimally you're playing, relative to your own context. As we all know, it's all relative, don't feel pressured into comparing yourself to others.
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On March 02 2018 01:11 bITt.mAN wrote:
Nah man, what they should really do is change the supply count display to:
List the number of Nexus'es you have
Have a blinking red popup on each Nexus saying THIS BUILDING PROVIDES 9 PSI
List a percentage of what supply you're filled up to. You do you man/girl/xhe! Don't be oppressed by someone's "13 nex", with their precise numbers. It's the 21st century, you get to identify with whatever Nexus timing makes you most comfortable. With percentages, you can "0.866 Nexus" at 13/15 supply, 54/63 supply, even 117/135 supply. Percentages tell you how optimally you're playing, relative to your own context. As we all know, it's all relative, don't feel pressured into comparing yourself to others.
Keep going, I'm still sure that at least half of Broodwar players doesn't know about it.
The problem is: players often doesn't investigate or look for things that come by nature, but how to counter specific unit, etc.., I mean my supply is increasing automatically by adding more Pylons, why should I even think of other way? and look at the sound and the text that appear to the player who got supply blocked, seems to have one answer to me, you know what I mean.
Instead of sarcasm, we could say this can be useful when you have Nexus/CC about to finish, then don't add Pylon/Supply, or add few.
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On March 01 2018 11:56 Moataz wrote:
I was confused
...
9, the beginning supply count
...
3 Nexus=27
Where did you think that initial nine supply comes from my man? When the only building is a Nexus..
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On March 02 2018 18:11 MamiyaOtaru wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2018 11:56 Moataz wrote:
I was confused
...
9, the beginning supply count
...
3 Nexus=27
Where did you think that initial nine supply comes from my man? When the only building is a Nexus..
When you play the Broodwar campaign, the 1st mission for Protoss named:
1. Escape from Aiur
You start with 6 Zealots, 3 Dragoons, Zeratul, with 0 Minerals, 0 Gas, no Probes & no Nexus... Where is this force came from, how they live there without food/supply ? this is a game, not a real life scenario, any thing could happen, you just learn by testing things, Games are not real or logical 
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Finally, after 20 years we cracked yet another mystery!
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On March 02 2018 23:46 A.Alm wrote:
Finally, after 20 years we cracked yet another mystery!
One down, thousands to go.
I knew a guy who didn`t knew about that there is an attack move. At least that wasn`t as obvious as this one.
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On March 01 2018 12:14 Lusitano wrote:
today you learned that all town hall structures give supply
The Hatchery gives something? I thought it was the initial overlord.
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United States11393 Posts
On March 02 2018 00:40 kogeT wrote:
Wtf, knowing that is like knowing that you need spawning pool to create zerglings. o_O
![[image loading]](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/306284178549243907/418716771642638336/unknown.png)
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On March 02 2018 01:47 Moataz wrote:
Keep going, I'm still sure that at least half of Broodwar players doesn't know about it.
No, I don't agree with that, not at all.
On March 02 2018 01:47 Moataz wrote:
The problem is: players often doesn't investigate or look for things that come by nature, but how to counter specific unit,
Again, no, I think you are maybe assuming your case is the "most common one", as we all tend to do sometimes, but in this particular metter no, you are part of a odd minority.
SC is a hardcore game and it has, as every other computer game, many many rules based on logical and mathematical principles, some of those rules are explicit and some are not, I think most of the people really interested in the game have expended a considerable amount of time trying to figure those out on their own.
I'm pretty sure many bw lovers like me have been pleasantly surprised when saw the real masters of the game using some methods (way of microing on ramp or the use of hotkeys) we, the noobs, came to figure out on our own via hours invested in the game.
The level of complexity of the discover you just made is at best of 2. 1 beeing extremeply simple and 100% explicit stuff and 20 beeing the most complex or hidden ways the game behaves.
It is very surprising to me that you played this game for years and never realizad such a silly fact, and, on top of that, that you find so hard to belive that many many people actually did.
I think there are two possible explanations for this:
1- you just played the missions on auto mode for years without even checking or investigating the minimun of how the game works (!), wich as I said before, would make you part of a weird minority.
2- this is some kind of february's april fool's joke I can't finish to understand.
3- this whole nexus psy cover-up scandal is a part of a much greater conspiracy wich involves the white house in asosiation with the anunakis. They are using the half-human demi God Terran to take over the digital world. They don't want us to know that the real ultimate best race, The Protoss, not only have the incredible Dragoon on their arsenal, but also, their Nexus produce not 8, but 9 supply. Those damn Terrans, the whole thing is just disgusting...
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Hah! So you learnt what the first building in the game does! Good job :D
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On March 03 2018 03:30 Starecat wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2018 12:14 Lusitano wrote:
today you learned that all town hall structures give supply The Hatchery gives something? I thought it was the initial overlord.
hatchery gives 1 supply. overlord provides 8.
This is why you have 9 supply at the start of a game as Zerg. And then you have 17 supply after you make your 2nd overlord.
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This guy is ridiculous, posts something obvious that anyone who plays bw should know, then DOUBLES DOWN and adds a poll to prove that literally everyone (except himself and 1 other noob) knows this fact and then continues to claim that it's something half of players don't know.
Let me contribute to this satire by adding a few other mind blowing facts, but be forewarned, you might have to send this data off to NASA for it to be explained because nobody can understand this shit.
1) You need an academy to make a ghost
HOW CAN ANYONE be expected to know this?!? Covert Ops is so high in tech tree already and you only need this to make the nuke add-on so wtf?
2) Bunkers increase the range of units inside by 1
WHAT? WHY IS THIS NOT PRINTED ANYWHERE? How is someone supposed to know this? But scvs still can't attack while they are in there? I repeat again, how is anyone supposed to know this?
3) Heal costs 1/2 energy to heal 1 hp
Why is this not displayed when you hover over the heal icon? it only says 1 energy OMG how just HOW are you expected to know this?
4) Nydus canals can't transport air units
So magically a small mutalisk can't fit through the canal but a large ultralisk can? I think this is the most disturbing discovery yet and I play zerg all the time, did you other zerg players know this? I might have to add a poll for this cause I think I'm not the only one.
5) You can move and recall
What an amazing discovery!! I play protoss everyday and I think nobody knows this but if you move an arb somewhere then try to recall something, IT WILL RECALL. Brand new tech right here guys.
HOWEVER if you recall then move, it will cancel the recall. How are you supposed to know this right?
I'll compile this incredible information into a PDF and mail it to the top minds of our planet right away, I don't know how we are supposed to process this information otherwise.
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Moataz, i want to thank you for your excellent calculations and this new information brought forward to the brood war community. I hope we get to see more threads like this one, with more crucial information to keep this old game refreshed with new and exciting information that might, one day, bring out new strategies over in the korean scene.
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Japan11286 Posts
Oh no my Protoss brethren, the secret of our powers has been unleashed unto the world and everyone now seeks to use it against us. Protect your nexuses/nexii!
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razorsuke i think im in love
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Canada144 Posts
I'd say that we should all be nicer to new players, but he says he's been playing for 21 years, so that's out.
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On March 03 2018 10:56 c3rberUs wrote:
Oh no my Protoss brethren, the secret of our powers has been unleashed unto the world and everyone now seeks to use it against us. Protect your nexuses/nexii!
Actually, the correct Latin plural is Nexus (but pronounced more like Nexoos).
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How the fuck Nazaré reached Canada?
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On March 03 2018 14:27 Radivel-X17 wrote:
I'd say that we should all be nicer to new players, but he says he's been playing for 21 years, so that's out.
Not when they claim ridiculous things without evidence, like "more than 50% of players don't know this".
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Asking for a 6th option for "What is a chobo?".
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This thread is still going on lmao?
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On March 03 2018 10:55 razorsuKe wrote:![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/IFUwVLX.png)
omg lolhahah
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ohhhh.. myyy... gosh. lol
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On March 03 2018 14:45 Freakling wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2018 10:56 c3rberUs wrote:
Oh no my Protoss brethren, the secret of our powers has been unleashed unto the world and everyone now seeks to use it against us. Protect your nexuses/nexii! Actually, the correct Latin plural is Nexus (but pronounced more like Nexoos).
I never knew a language besides English that its users don`t even know how to use plural forms. An initiative should really be started to "correct" the writing system too, as it`s really obsolete after several vowel shifts.
That pic is hilarious.
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I know where problem is, the correct message should be:
“You must construct additional pylons.. or nexus!”
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On March 14 2018 20:16 kogeT wrote:
I know where problem is, the correct message should be:
“You must construct additional pylons.. or nexus!”
xD This thread makes me laugh :D Keep it up OP / guys!
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Japan11286 Posts
I've seen this pic a few times already and I still can't help but grin haha
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I love how three deeper analysis tools were required to make this discovery and the OP encourages this methodically to second his findings.
"ChaosLauncher + StatInfo + http://www.openbw.com/replay-viewer"
The base game is just too primitive.
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EPT
