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draco still super good I see
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On December 18 2017 23:20 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2017 23:15 AManHasNoName wrote:
Just so this isn't taken the wrong way, I'd like to preface it by saying that I absolutely do wish there were big money tournaments for the top foreign players. They work had and they deserve it without a doubt.
That said, there's something that I'm curious about.
My premise: For a tournament to be worth investing in/sponsoring, it must have the promise of sufficient viewership to provide a reasonable Return on Investment for the sponsor.
(If you disagree with this premise, please let me know why. But, I believe it's a fair statement for any sort of sustainable sponsorship ecosystem.)
My curiosity: We have multiple tournaments every weekend which are participated in by the majority of the top players in our foreign community. The viewership for these events is generally quite low, usually no more than 1000 viewers and typically substantially less than that.
What is it that leads those of you arguing that an event like this should be about skill/top players to believe that a larger prize pool would result in substantially larger viewership to justify the investment of a sponsor?
In closing: I believe that if there were statistics that showed it would be profitable for a sponsor to invest these larger prize pools in events for top foreign players, then they would be sponsoring them. The reason these large prize pools go to events like this that *more* about fun than competition is because they appeal to a broader audience and therefore have a higher potential ROI.
I'd like to hear from those of you who disagree with me as to why. I'm perfectly happy to be wrong in this case, but I haven't come up with any reasonable logic to prove myself wrong. i think if we put Day9 Artosis Tasteless to Cast TL Open we will get similar viewers  but obviously the prize is 200$(and i think is amazing,We used to play for years defiler tours for 50$ or 75$ and we did keep the community running for a long time) and there are not salaries for the casters :/
I 100% agree that having some hype casters would bump those numbers. But, at the same time there are events like the OGN Super Match which had EffOrt vs Flash finals and Tasteless/Artosis casting it on Twitch and it still only got ~1k viewers. Players like White-Ra, NonY, Draco and incontrol are also a big part of what brings in such a broad audience.
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Yo Sheth, this has nothing to do with anything in this thread but it's cool to see you around again! Loved remembering watching you beat Rain's DTs that one time :D
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Is there something like schedule, bracket/groups or something?
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On December 16 2017 10:43 FlaShFTW wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2017 10:16 L_Master wrote:On December 16 2017 09:49 GTR wrote:
i think people should have realised by now these 'invitationals' are not really tournaments. True. But at the same time the prize pools have been large. It's not hard to understand why Eon and others would be more than a little bummed out. In fairness though Eon, you guys right now are better players than most of these guys, but they are big name personas that have been relevant factors on TL and in SC2 as well. You're know by a small number of BW players, these guys are known by a much larger base, which is often the draw for invitationals. The top four guys on the left are HUGE personalities in starcraft across both games. Tens of thousands of followers or more. Sheth is a very well known SC2 streamer. Draco is legit good right now and famous. NonY is also one of the most famous. White-Ra is a big name legend with some funny russian hype around him from BW and SC2. The only two that seem out of place are Kawaii and Jaeyun. I don't know Jaeyun at all, and Kawaii as far as I know was good at BW/SC2 but was never really a big name either. Jaeyun was the star player and one of the best during the CSL Brood War days where he carried UCSD to the 2009 CSL title and runner up in 2010 CSL.
You got it wrong.... we won in 2010 against Duke and lost in 2009 against Waterloo. Jaeyun took down Nony in the ace match when he was a pro-level player.
:D
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The banter/cast ratio is much better when incontrol is playing and not casting
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51330 Posts
holy shit, the tasteless name story was fraudulent all along
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United States1434 Posts
It's hard to explain, but the older style way of playing just feels much more exciting and suspenseful to watch. These guys have such good experience playing competitively and there are so many micro oriented and unstandard builds. I'm loving it.
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On December 19 2017 01:42 Liquid`Sheth wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2017 04:53 playa wrote:
The way to actually promote BW is to show that it can pay to actually play the game. These tournaments just foster "you should have been there to buddy up. Too late, but hope you enjoy our entertainment."
I hate to beat a dead horse, but it's really indicative of what BW has always been about. I once qualified for the final 4 of a WCG qualifer. There was no bracket or time given out, yet. Sheth and Nyoken decided to "MAKE THEIR OWN BRACKET" and time up, and not inform me nor the other guy (non old boys club member). They just played against each other to decide who would go to the USA finals...
The final 4 was supposed to be randomized; ie., no way to know who you should be playing until the admin made the bracket. It was the biggest joke to ever happen in esports. But, since it benefited the "old guard," it was viewed as the most legit thing ever. Totally normal and kosher. That's the kind of power that tl.net wielded over tournaments and the community. They do w/e they feel like, and if you're not apart of the buddy system, then you're a noob compared to us and you don't even deserve to play in things you qualified for
Hi. First, this never happened. I didn't have any clout with WCG. I wasn't a part of the old boys club then. I'm still not really now. Second, I'm really sorry about the situation of the game and the tournament scene. I wish there was infinite tournaments with only the highest skill bracket of foreigners. I know I'm not good anymore. I'm just doing whatever small things I can to bring more attention to this game, because I love it. I think everyone at the event feels similarly. I hope our love for the game can help grow the scene and benefit the great foreigner players that are here.
It takes even more audacity to claim this didn't happen. Apparently screwing others over is such a norm that it's hard to remember. I'm sure it's still searchable on the site. I even remember the other player in the final 4 that you two screwed over (timestop).
BW has always been a joke. I hear Xeris, who had jack to do with anything, encouraged you two to do the dumbest thing ever. If it didn't happen, I wonder how you ended up playing Nyoken in a final 4. Final 4 with 2 players, hmm... wonder how that can happen.
Meanwhile, I took a walkover only under the condition that it couldn't be rescheduled, and then played the guy when I had no obligation to, via WCG rules. Yet, I got attacked mercilessly for months... Why? Other guy was Idra. Welcome to TL.net.
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I'm really enjoying the commentating and the games. These guys mesh really well together.
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On December 19 2017 08:34 Ty2 wrote:
It's hard to explain, but the older style way of playing just feels much more exciting and suspenseful to watch. These guys have such good experience playing competitively and there are so many micro oriented and unstandard builds. I'm loving it.
Yeah, I agree. There have definitely been some really great games today! Super fun event so far :D
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On December 19 2017 08:03 Chrysanthemum wrote:
The banter/cast ratio is much better when incontrol is playing and not casting
I agree that in zotac he did his thing a bit too much (even though i do appreciate his humour), but i think he is being well rounded today.
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On December 19 2017 08:34 Ty2 wrote:
It's hard to explain, but the older style way of playing just feels much more exciting and suspenseful to watch. These guys have such good experience playing competitively and there are so many micro oriented and unstandard builds. I'm loving it.
incontrol game vs kawaii on longinus was indeed pretty cool,reminds me a bit the game that Jaedong played vs flash on eye of the storm. in the ASL
his game vs draco on taucross i feel like it was an inspiration of the gameplay that Michael showed vs dragon.
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16950 Posts
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On December 19 2017 07:08 AManHasNoName wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2017 23:20 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:On December 18 2017 23:15 AManHasNoName wrote:
Just so this isn't taken the wrong way, I'd like to preface it by saying that I absolutely do wish there were big money tournaments for the top foreign players. They work had and they deserve it without a doubt.
That said, there's something that I'm curious about.
My premise: For a tournament to be worth investing in/sponsoring, it must have the promise of sufficient viewership to provide a reasonable Return on Investment for the sponsor.
(If you disagree with this premise, please let me know why. But, I believe it's a fair statement for any sort of sustainable sponsorship ecosystem.)
My curiosity: We have multiple tournaments every weekend which are participated in by the majority of the top players in our foreign community. The viewership for these events is generally quite low, usually no more than 1000 viewers and typically substantially less than that.
What is it that leads those of you arguing that an event like this should be about skill/top players to believe that a larger prize pool would result in substantially larger viewership to justify the investment of a sponsor?
In closing: I believe that if there were statistics that showed it would be profitable for a sponsor to invest these larger prize pools in events for top foreign players, then they would be sponsoring them. The reason these large prize pools go to events like this that *more* about fun than competition is because they appeal to a broader audience and therefore have a higher potential ROI.
I'd like to hear from those of you who disagree with me as to why. I'm perfectly happy to be wrong in this case, but I haven't come up with any reasonable logic to prove myself wrong. i think if we put Day9 Artosis Tasteless to Cast TL Open we will get similar viewers but obviously the prize is 200$(and i think is amazing,We used to play for years defiler tours for 50$ or 75$ and we did keep the community running for a long time) and there are not salaries for the casters :/ I 100% agree that having some hype casters would bump those numbers. But, at the same time there are events like the OGN Super Match which had EffOrt vs Flash finals and Tasteless/Artosis casting it on Twitch and it still only got ~1k viewers. Players like White-Ra, NonY, Draco and incontrol are also a big part of what brings in such a broad audience.
That's because Day9 is the one that brings in the majority of viewers out of anyone involved in this event. More than Artosis, more than Tasteless.
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On December 19 2017 08:34 playa wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2017 01:42 Liquid`Sheth wrote:On December 17 2017 04:53 playa wrote:
The way to actually promote BW is to show that it can pay to actually play the game. These tournaments just foster "you should have been there to buddy up. Too late, but hope you enjoy our entertainment."
I hate to beat a dead horse, but it's really indicative of what BW has always been about. I once qualified for the final 4 of a WCG qualifer. There was no bracket or time given out, yet. Sheth and Nyoken decided to "MAKE THEIR OWN BRACKET" and time up, and not inform me nor the other guy (non old boys club member). They just played against each other to decide who would go to the USA finals...
The final 4 was supposed to be randomized; ie., no way to know who you should be playing until the admin made the bracket. It was the biggest joke to ever happen in esports. But, since it benefited the "old guard," it was viewed as the most legit thing ever. Totally normal and kosher. That's the kind of power that tl.net wielded over tournaments and the community. They do w/e they feel like, and if you're not apart of the buddy system, then you're a noob compared to us and you don't even deserve to play in things you qualified for
Hi. First, this never happened. I didn't have any clout with WCG. I wasn't a part of the old boys club then. I'm still not really now. Second, I'm really sorry about the situation of the game and the tournament scene. I wish there was infinite tournaments with only the highest skill bracket of foreigners. I know I'm not good anymore. I'm just doing whatever small things I can to bring more attention to this game, because I love it. I think everyone at the event feels similarly. I hope our love for the game can help grow the scene and benefit the great foreigner players that are here. It takes even more audacity to claim this didn't happen. Apparently screwing others over is such a norm that it's hard to remember. I'm sure it's still searchable on the site. I even remember the other player in the final 4 that you two screwed over (timestop). BW has always been a joke. I hear Xeris, who had jack to do with anything, encouraged you two to do the dumbest thing ever. If it didn't happen, I wonder how you ended up playing Nyoken in a final 4. Final 4 with 2 players, hmm... wonder how that can happen. Meanwhile, I took a walkover only under the condition that it couldn't be rescheduled, and then played the guy when I had no obligation to, via WCG rules. Yet, I got attacked mercilessly for months... Why? Other guy was Idra. Welcome to TL.net.
What... lol. I've never had anything to do with WCG.
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I cannot believe docholiday is obsing... he notoriously historically misses key moments in games and drinks while casting
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United States10025 Posts
On December 19 2017 07:53 Xeris wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2017 10:43 FlaShFTW wrote:On December 16 2017 10:16 L_Master wrote:On December 16 2017 09:49 GTR wrote:
i think people should have realised by now these 'invitationals' are not really tournaments. True. But at the same time the prize pools have been large. It's not hard to understand why Eon and others would be more than a little bummed out. In fairness though Eon, you guys right now are better players than most of these guys, but they are big name personas that have been relevant factors on TL and in SC2 as well. You're know by a small number of BW players, these guys are known by a much larger base, which is often the draw for invitationals. The top four guys on the left are HUGE personalities in starcraft across both games. Tens of thousands of followers or more. Sheth is a very well known SC2 streamer. Draco is legit good right now and famous. NonY is also one of the most famous. White-Ra is a big name legend with some funny russian hype around him from BW and SC2. The only two that seem out of place are Kawaii and Jaeyun. I don't know Jaeyun at all, and Kawaii as far as I know was good at BW/SC2 but was never really a big name either. Jaeyun was the star player and one of the best during the CSL Brood War days where he carried UCSD to the 2009 CSL title and runner up in 2010 CSL. You got it wrong.... we won in 2010 against Duke and lost in 2009 against Waterloo. Jaeyun took down Nony in the ace match when he was a pro-level player. :D
oh god damn it i knew it was one of the two haha.
JAEYUN FIGHTING!
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On December 19 2017 09:51 Xeris wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2017 08:34 playa wrote:On December 19 2017 01:42 Liquid`Sheth wrote:On December 17 2017 04:53 playa wrote:
The way to actually promote BW is to show that it can pay to actually play the game. These tournaments just foster "you should have been there to buddy up. Too late, but hope you enjoy our entertainment."
I hate to beat a dead horse, but it's really indicative of what BW has always been about. I once qualified for the final 4 of a WCG qualifer. There was no bracket or time given out, yet. Sheth and Nyoken decided to "MAKE THEIR OWN BRACKET" and time up, and not inform me nor the other guy (non old boys club member). They just played against each other to decide who would go to the USA finals...
The final 4 was supposed to be randomized; ie., no way to know who you should be playing until the admin made the bracket. It was the biggest joke to ever happen in esports. But, since it benefited the "old guard," it was viewed as the most legit thing ever. Totally normal and kosher. That's the kind of power that tl.net wielded over tournaments and the community. They do w/e they feel like, and if you're not apart of the buddy system, then you're a noob compared to us and you don't even deserve to play in things you qualified for
Hi. First, this never happened. I didn't have any clout with WCG. I wasn't a part of the old boys club then. I'm still not really now. Second, I'm really sorry about the situation of the game and the tournament scene. I wish there was infinite tournaments with only the highest skill bracket of foreigners. I know I'm not good anymore. I'm just doing whatever small things I can to bring more attention to this game, because I love it. I think everyone at the event feels similarly. I hope our love for the game can help grow the scene and benefit the great foreigner players that are here. It takes even more audacity to claim this didn't happen. Apparently screwing others over is such a norm that it's hard to remember. I'm sure it's still searchable on the site. I even remember the other player in the final 4 that you two screwed over (timestop). BW has always been a joke. I hear Xeris, who had jack to do with anything, encouraged you two to do the dumbest thing ever. If it didn't happen, I wonder how you ended up playing Nyoken in a final 4. Final 4 with 2 players, hmm... wonder how that can happen. Meanwhile, I took a walkover only under the condition that it couldn't be rescheduled, and then played the guy when I had no obligation to, via WCG rules. Yet, I got attacked mercilessly for months... Why? Other guy was Idra. Welcome to TL.net. What... lol. I've never had anything to do with WCG.
Yeah I know, which irked me even more. Apparently you had some obsession with running tournaments whether involved or not. Interesting coincidence.
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EPT
