SC:R Closed beta is out - Page 17

On August 03 2017 02:12 Waxangel wrote:


Are we doing this again? Blizzard did not maliciously try to "kill" BW. At WORST, they handled an IP-rights dispute in an indelicate, ham-fisted way.

No one said you have to like SC2, or even have a polite attitude toward it, but it would be nice if people didn't mangle the facts so they can enjoy a perverse victimhood complex.

On August 03 2017 08:03 Endymion wrote:


i mean they """defended""" an ""ip-rights"" ""violation"" when they had a fiscal incentive to kill broodwar and promote their shiny new replacement. quite the coincidence that activision blizzard's legion of lawyers weren't able to resolve the situation in a more amicable manner that didn't involve mangling broodwar while paving the road for sc2.

On August 03 2017 07:39 ROOTFayth wrote:
I think most likely people like Nathanias might be attributing the fun of the game to the fame they earned through that game so for him he can't possibly enjoy broodwar as much because he is just so invested in SC2, like all his memories are from SC2... Understandable that he would think that way

Fwiw I played broodwar at a competitive foreign level and always thought broodwar was better than SC2 but some of the broodwar purists in here are really annoying to read

On August 03 2017 08:43 SnowfaLL wrote:
I've always had trouble arguing with "BW Elitists" back when SC2 was first released, because they don't want to hear about the upsides to SC2 - they act like the game is just pure shit regardless of how it actually is. I grew up on BW like most of us here, I was a ladder challenges guy, playing with the early days of Liquid/etc, and played through WGT/etc too, so I love BW obviously..

but SC2 had the opportunity to make a more strategically balanced micro/macro setting RTS over the macro-oriented BW (how many times do you see flash or jaedong, the top 2 players of all time, just a-move units without micro because they know macroing is more important) - BW is the definition of macro-intensive, speed-based RTS. SC2 had the macro, but took WC3's superior micro importance and combined it. If you ever deny this, ask yourself why Flash and Jaedong, the two most dominating macro players, never accomplished anything in SC2??? Because SC2 had way more to it than just pure macro-ability. Players with strategical genius like MVP or Rain end up dominating SC2 instead, despite being "weaker" macro players in BW. Unfortunately, the game didn't quite work out the way as intended IMO, solely due to two things: too efficient of pathing/clumping/"deathballing" and the community having a horrible outlook on balance. The game has been pretty steady in balance outside of the BL/Infestor patch, yet every single era of SC2 has a huge majority of people crying about balance. In BW, as the game has had no patches for ~15 years, people are more likely to concede that it is in a good state of balance, and thats what I enjoy about it. You can't whine too much.

In hindsight, while SC2 missed the mark IMO, it is a good attempt and if it wasn't compared to BW, it would easily be up there, but BW is magical in it's perfect balance and counters... which is not really possible for any other game to get to without luck. It's unfair to expect blizzard to make another game like BW, its just too difficult. BW is clearly the most balanced, difficult esport of all time, but SC2 is pretty good minus a few mishaps.

On August 03 2017 09:12 BigFan wrote:

I wasn't watching as much SCII by the time Flash and Jaedong were both playing the game heavily but in 2013, Jaedong was constantly reaching the quarterfinals/semifinals/finals of most tournaments he participated in (Ignore that bizzare WCS season where he lost to theognis lol). I know this because I was following him until end of 2013 when he won ASUS RoG over Life and Innovation, two of the best players at the time then he just lost his drive completely after that so I chose a great time to just quit. Regardless, just take a look at his 2013 achievements and tell me again that Jaedong accomplished nothing: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Jaedong#Achievements

As for Flash, he may not have been quite as dominant as in BW but he still had quite a lot of high placements as well. Just a quick look at his wiki and you'll see what I mean: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Flash#Achievements . I saw the tail end of his IEM Toronto victory where he slayed everyone and how he led his team to the 2014 PL finals win so make sure to check your sources next time before making such statements again please.

On August 03 2017 08:43 SnowfaLL wrote:
but SC2 had the opportunity to make a more strategically balanced micro/macro setting RTS over the macro-oriented BW (how many times do you see flash or jaedong, the top 2 players of all time, just a-move units without micro because they know macroing is more important) - BW is the definition of macro-intensive, speed-based RTS. SC2 had the macro, but took WC3's superior micro importance and combined it. If you ever deny this, ask yourself why Flash and Jaedong, the two most dominating macro players, never accomplished anything in SC2??? Because SC2 had way more to it than just pure macro-ability. Players with strategical genius like MVP or Rain end up dominating SC2 instead, despite being "weaker" macro players in BW. Unfortunately, the game didn't quite work out the way as intended IMO, solely due to three things: too efficient of pathing/clumping/"deathballing" and the community having a horrible outlook on balance. The game has been pretty steady in balance outside of the BL/Infestor patch, yet every single era of SC2 has a huge majority of people crying about balance. In BW, as the game has had no patches for ~15 years, people are more likely to concede that it is in a good state of balance, and thats what I enjoy about it. You can't whine too much. SC2's balance whine ruined the mood to play the game, way more than no chat for years did.. Even Neeb gets very little respect, despite being the most successful foreigner possibly ever; solely due to what race he plays.

On August 03 2017 07:17 -NegativeZero- wrote:
lmao how the fuck did a thread about the best BW news in years, by far devolve into yet another sc2 bashing thread

On August 03 2017 09:49 Bonyth wrote:


LOL what did i just read. I just read micro is not present in sc:bw. So ask yourself results of actions:
- send carriers on a-move against terran goliaths
- try move reaver without shuttle vs any race
- send your zerglings or mutas on a-move against terran

I could go on and on and on. If army control isn't micro in your opinion, then what is it? Spellcasting? That's present in both games.
To counter your point, let me tell u this. My apm is about 200. About 160 is MICRO and 40 is MACRO and some people think of me as #1 protoss foreigner (god i hate u for making me say such self-promoting statement).

On August 03 2017 09:51 ortseam wrote:
Macro is not what made players like Flash, JD and BIsu shine in BW. Every progamer and even high-level amateurs can macro just as well. And one of the few exceptions that can't, reached the last ASL final

On August 03 2017 08:43 SnowfaLL wrote:
(how many times do you see flash or jaedong, the top 2 players of all time, just a-move units without micro because they know macroing is more important)

On August 03 2017 09:33 SnowfaLL wrote:


I stand by my statement. They are in almost every finals of every tournament they play in BW, and Flash is basically unbeatable in Bo3's - yet in SC2, he won one tournament, a non-korean one at that. There is clearly a drastic difference in the game that caused him to not be as dominate as BW (the "more difficult game") and I'm not buying any kind of "not-motivated cause he hates SC2 over BW" reasoning that BW elitists would have. Was he good? Obviously, but I wouldnt rate Flash or Jaedong in the top ~30 players to ever play SC2, and thats a large drop-off from their BW standings.