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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On August 03 2017 02:08 BigFan wrote: This is the way it's always been afaik and the way I've always played the game (and others too judging by the response). That's no real argument though. Just because it was always like that doesn't necessarily mean it's good | ||
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Qikz
United Kingdom12043 Posts
On August 03 2017 01:58 739 wrote: If anyone will have problems with login (Error 2:5) go to Program Files (x86) > Starcraft > Starcraft Launcher > Run as Administrator. It will force the latest update and let you login. EDIT: Fixed | ||
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Qikz
United Kingdom12043 Posts
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On August 03 2017 02:13 The_Red_Viper wrote: That's no real argument though. Just because it was always like that doesn't necessarily mean it's good Well it shouldn't be changed for the sake of change when no one asks for it. I personally like 4 player maps and random spawns. I never feel at a disadvantage and know that if I lose, it's not because of where I spawned! | ||
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Dazed.
Canada3301 Posts
On August 03 2017 02:13 The_Red_Viper wrote: ??? There is an argument. Lack of scouting information allows for particular kinds of rushes, or economic plays, that is one of the things that differentiates 4 player and 2 player maps [not merely how the map splits in late game]. It allows for different proxys, cross vs vertical spawns gives different strategical options, etc. Its part of the flavour of bw, nor is the balance difference between cross and vertical or horizontal spawns so egregious as to in itself cause massive swings in balance. It just opens up strategical options. There is no debate. If this isnt a mistake blizzard are fools. I'm sure it is a mistake.That's no real argument though. Just because it was always like that doesn't necessarily mean it's good | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On August 03 2017 02:26 Dazed. wrote: ??? There is an argument. Lack of scouting information allows for particular kinds of rushes, or economic plays, that is one of the things that differentiates 4 player and 2 player maps [not merely how the map splits in late game]. It allows for different proxys, cross vs vertical spawns gives different strategical options, etc. Its part of the flavour of bw, nor is the balance difference between cross and vertical or horizontal spawns so egregious as to in itself cause massive swings in balance. It just opens up strategical options. There is no debate. If this isnt a mistake blizzard are fools. I'm sure it is a mistake. You made an argument for it, saying "it was always like that" is none which is what i stated. As i said before, i don't care either way but random spawns obviously also has cons. | ||
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Dazed.
Canada3301 Posts
On August 03 2017 02:29 The_Red_Viper wrote: No, that wasnt my argument, my argument was that all of the strategical options effect the metagame balance and are desirable as they are enjoyable. Its not a circular argument of 'lets keep it the same', its 'lets keep whats good'. You dont want to reduce strategical options and simplify scouting patterns, as then you lose STRATEGY.You made an argument for it, saying "it was always like that" is none which is what i stated. As i said before, i don't care either way but random spawns obviously also has cons. What cons do random spawns give? I cant think of a single one. | ||
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207aicila
1237 Posts
On August 03 2017 02:13 The_Red_Viper wrote: That's no real argument though. Just because it was always like that doesn't necessarily mean it's good How about, and bear with me here because this is a more high-minded concept than strictly StarCraft, if you create a product for a niche audience with very specific and clear expectations, do not make any changes that said audience has not explicitly requested? Beyond that, Dazed. gave the gist of it in his post above. | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On August 03 2017 02:30 Dazed. wrote: No, that wasnt my argument, my argument was that all of the strategical options effect the metagame balance and are desirable as they are enjoyable. Its not a circular argument of 'lets keep it the same', its 'lets keep whats good'. You dont want to reduce strategical options and simplify scouting patterns, as then you lose STRATEGY. What cons do random spawns give? I cant think of a single one. I think i phrased that poorly. I am saying that the guy i responded to said "it was always like that" which is what i criticized. Your argument works and i can see it. Well it's simply more volatile because of scouting and higher variance how the game goes depending on spawns. If that is an actual problem would need to be analysed, but it's obvious that there is some rng aspect with it. Again, i don't care either way but i was surprised that pretty much everyone wanted random spawns. | ||
BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
On August 03 2017 02:26 Dazed. wrote: ??? There is an argument. Lack of scouting information allows for particular kinds of rushes, or economic plays, that is one of the things that differentiates 4 player and 2 player maps [not merely how the map splits in late game]. It allows for different proxys, cross vs vertical spawns gives different strategical options, etc. Its part of the flavour of bw, nor is the balance difference between cross and vertical or horizontal spawns so egregious as to in itself cause massive swings in balance. It just opens up strategical options. There is no debate. If this isnt a mistake blizzard are fools. I'm sure it is a mistake. On August 03 2017 02:40 207aicila wrote: How about, and bear with me here because this is a more high-minded concept than strictly StarCraft, if you create a product for a niche audience with very specific and clear expectations, do not make any changes that said audience has not explicitly requested? Beyond that, Dazed. gave the gist of it in his post above. Pretty much. I would've figured my post was explanatory enough despite being quite short lol. | ||
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ProMeTheus112
France2027 Posts
that's quite the loss of variation, I don't think it's good :/ there is some small cons to randomization like yeah you can get unlucky starts, for example in a PvP, your probe gets there late and his zealot is blocking already while his probe got into your base, but seriously losing the non cross pos games and the different possible pos that's too much loss, a much better way to lose that would be to just pinpoint your opponent starting location @game start (still randomizing locations) I don't feel like I'll be happy that I'm not getting to play matches in this or that configuration, and also it's not bad that you don't get to scout your opponent always at the same timing, it helps making the early game a little different everytime and so the games themselves develop a little different being always cross pos gives emphasis to macro start? edit: but now I see bisu, he is playing ladder MM and he gets non cross pos, so wrong info?? edit2: actually its non random non cross pos??? must be mistake then | ||
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Ethelis
United States2400 Posts
V A R I A N C E | ||
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L_Master
United States8017 Posts
On August 03 2017 02:49 The_Red_Viper wrote: I think i phrased that poorly. I am saying that the guy i responded to said "it was always like that" which is what i criticized. Your argument works and i can see it. Well it's simply more volatile because of scouting and higher variance how the game goes depending on spawns. If that is an actual problem would need to be analysed, but it's obvious that there is some rng aspect with it. Again, i don't care either way but i was surprised that pretty much everyone wanted random spawns. Well, its like Dazed said...The upside is clear; it adds options and strategical/mind game depth and there aren't any known downside. Considered that way it shouldn't be surprising that people would be unanimously in favor of something that clearly deepens the strategy of the game with no negative effects. | ||
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Keniji
Netherlands2569 Posts
Bug Fixes [...] Starting locations are randomized during matchmaking [...] Phew | ||
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ProMeTheus112
France2027 Posts
On August 04 2017 06:17 Keniji wrote: https://us.battle.net/forums/en/starcraft/topic/20758456099 Phew  | ||
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Dazed.
Canada3301 Posts
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Bazy
Poland22 Posts
Will I be able to play SC:R at 0:01 on 14th of August? | ||
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fish_radio
182 Posts
으ㅡ으 | ||
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TelecoM
United States10801 Posts
EDIT : I don't know about you guys, but my game won't seem to patch, it is on a patch / upgrade loop of 1.19.4 ~_~ | ||
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Ty2
United States1434 Posts
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