EPTScmdraft 2 - 0.9.0 Preview - Page 3
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neobowman
Canada3324 Posts
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S.I.
58 Posts
On June 28 2017 00:38 neobowman wrote: Brood War is literally just a pile of bugs stacked together that somehow ended up as the best game. Don't forget the quick + dirty hacks like worker stacking. | ||
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RedW4rr10r
Switzerland749 Posts
Does anybody know what exactly those AI scritps do (examples): Brood Wars Protoss 2 - Town D Brood Wars Terran 4 - Town A Brood Wars Zerg 1 - Town E Other strange ones are: Protoss 10 - Mini-Ttowns Protoss 3 - Air Zerg Town Terran 2 - Electornic Distribution Zerg 9 - Right Orange Protoss Edit: I've just opened BW campaign Zerg 3 where you have to gather 10k minerals and you only have Terran opponents. All Terran AIs use scripts like "Brood Wars Zerg 3 - Town D" (applies for orange who never attacks you - and has a firebat constantly jumping into a bunker and leaving it again). However, brown uses the script "Brood Wars Zerg 3 - Town E" who attacks you every now and then. So those script stand for the respective missions in both StarCraft and Brood War and they seem to be hard coded. | ||
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JungleTerrain
Chile799 Posts
I'm guessing that the script is as you said, hard coded into the game and the script merely "calls" on it. | ||
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RedW4rr10r
Switzerland749 Posts
But now when opening BW Terra 5a, player 1 (the nuking terran) uses the script "Brood Wars Terran 2 - Town A". At first I was confused but I remembered that in BW Terran 2 you have four nukes in the later stages (the mission where you have to steal those battle cruisers). And there was the same thing with the nukes... Ok, at least I know now for sure that I didn't have a chance to do this myself xD Well, I did manage to make the AI build a nuke but in order to make that happen, it needs to start harvesting and shortly after, it builds the nuke. However, the building time is the standard one, but those campaign scenarios use a "chrono boost" or whatever :D | ||
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JungleTerrain
Chile799 Posts
On June 29 2017 08:19 RedW4rr10r wrote: I've always wondered how you can create a nuke silo with a nuke in it, I just didn't get it to work. But Brood War Terran 5a proves that it can be done. And on top of that the nuke silo's lights flash only for a few seconds when it's building a nuke. I never understood. But now when opening BW Terra 5a, player 1 (the nuking terran) uses the script "Brood Wars Terran 2 - Town A". At first I was confused but I remembered that in BW Terran 2 you have four nukes in the later stages (the mission where you have to steal those battle cruisers). And there was the same thing with the nukes... Ok, at least I know now for sure that I didn't have a chance to do this myself xD Well, I did manage to make the AI build a nuke but in order to make that happen, it needs to start harvesting and shortly after, it builds the nuke. However, the building time is the standard one, but those campaign scenarios use a "chrono boost" or whatever :D Yeah, for the most part we are very limited as mapmakers in what we can make an AI do in the game. But I think it would also get very complicated quickly if you have so many options to make a computer player do stuff. It would be very complex I think. I wonder if the SSCAIT people use scripts, I haven't looked into it. | ||
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JungleTerrain
Chile799 Posts
Nothing too crazy, but for example at least being able to delete some of the entries. | ||
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Freakling
Germany1534 Posts
On June 29 2017 07:35 RedW4rr10r wrote: I've got a question and i hope this belongs to here. Does anybody know what exactly those AI scritps do (examples): Brood Wars Protoss 2 - Town D Brood Wars Terran 4 - Town A Brood Wars Zerg 1 - Town E Other strange ones are: Protoss 10 - Mini-Ttowns Protoss 3 - Air Zerg Town Terran 2 - Electornic Distribution Zerg 9 - Right Orange Protoss Edit: I've just opened BW campaign Zerg 3 where you have to gather 10k minerals and you only have Terran opponents. All Terran AIs use scripts like "Brood Wars Zerg 3 - Town D" (applies for orange who never attacks you - and has a firebat constantly jumping into a bunker and leaving it again). However, brown uses the script "Brood Wars Zerg 3 - Town E" who attacks you every now and then. So those script stand for the respective missions in both StarCraft and Brood War and they seem to be hard coded. Yes, those are Campaign scripts. All they usually do is give a list of buildings to build, some instructions what units to defend with (against ground to ground attacks build the following units and use them for defense etc...) and hard-coded attacks (build such and such units and send them attacking). Protoss 10 - Mini-Ttowns is a satellite base script (analogous to the "Campaign area town" scripts). All it does is make the AI build a Hatch (if there isn't one already) and some workers and use them to mine at those locations. Terran 2 - Electronic Distribution is a script for the Shareware campaign. Some of them are actually dublicates, as there are also "Shareware" scripts around (but the actual Shareware release leaves out some of the missions). There is actually an AI script editor for BroodWar you can read the scripts with and see what exactly they do. Just search the web for it. EDIT: Use this as a starting point. | ||
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RedW4rr10r
Switzerland749 Posts
On June 29 2017 17:17 Freakling wrote: Yes, those are Campaign scripts. All they usually do is give a list of buildings to build, some instructions what units to defend with (against ground to ground attacks build the following units and use them for defense etc...) and hard-coded attacks (build such and such units and send them attacking). Protoss 10 - Mini-Ttowns is a satellite base script (analogous to the "Campaign area town" scripts). All it does is make the AI build a Hatch (if there isn't one already) and some workers and use them to mine at those locations. Terran 2 - Electronic Distribution is a script for the Shareware campaign. Some of them are actually dublicates, as there are also "Shareware" scripts around (but the actual Shareware release leaves out some of the missions). There is actually an AI script editor for BroodWar you can read the scripts with and see what exactly they do. Just search the web for it. EDIT: Use this as a starting point. Wow cool, thanks for your help! | ||
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S.I.
58 Posts
On June 29 2017 13:31 JungleTerrain wrote: S.I. is it possible to have an editable Recent Maps list under the Files menu? Nothing too crazy, but for example at least being able to delete some of the entries. I could add a clear button to nuke em all, but too niche to do much more with. For now you can just clear em by removing the entries in the registry. | ||
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S.I.
58 Posts
![[image loading]](http://www.stormcoast-fortress.net/Irregularies/Images/Regions4.png) | ||
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JungleTerrain
Chile799 Posts
On July 01 2017 11:17 S.I. wrote: .... still very much a work in progress.... and I'm very grateful to tscmoo for letting me reimplement his reimplementation and answering questions. What is that exactly? | ||
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Freakling
Germany1534 Posts
Yes, it is really happening! : Soon we are going to have access to pathfinding directly via the editor! I guess there is a lot of figuring out how to best interpret the raw data left to do, but things like balancing resources and wiping out stuck 'n stacked bugs will become a whole lot easier and less time consuming! I need to go buy more exclamation marks! | ||
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S.I.
58 Posts
Here is the same thing for the (6)Acropolis map, except now it also displays the tiles which are part of two regions correctly and the links between regions: ![[image loading]](http://www.stormcoast-fortress.net/Irregularies/Images/(6)Acropolis.gif) E: And Circuit Breaker, pathfinding + terrain height overlays: Click for full sized. ![[image loading]](http://www.stormcoast-fortress.net/Irregularies/Images/ICCup%20Circuit%20Breaker(u)+height.gif) | ||
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JungleTerrain
Chile799 Posts
Dude that is crazy! SCMDraft has just ascended into God-level editing powers. Thanks SI (and whoever helped you if anyone) for these new features. I really want to learn in-depth about these pathfinding regions... looks really interesting. I don't currently see (from that overlay) how it will help with resource debugging (I need an explanation). Or maybe as you said we just need to interpret the raw data and see what it's telling us? Edit: lol and of course Circuit Breakers has elevation bugs in its ramps... | ||
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S.I.
58 Posts
Guess why I choose that map as the example  | ||
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Freakling
Germany1534 Posts
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JungleTerrain
Chile799 Posts
![[image loading]](http://www.stormcoast-fortress.net/Irregularies/Images/PathingPreview.png) So in this image, it shows that individual tiles in different elevation relative to its surroundings actually has its own pathfinding region assigned to it, and you can see lines coming from them and going to the region in which they are inside of. It's like mini-regions inside a bigger region. So this means that elevation bugs in ramps actually affects pathing? And how are these regions created? The game looks for tiles with similar properties and clumps them together? | ||
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S.I.
58 Posts
Region creation real fast: - Mark the map tiles by elevation + passible - find large rects of the same height from top left to bottom right. - expand found rects to include tiles between rects - merge small regions into neighbors if possible. The region display is updated in realtime as you edit the terrain so you can see how your changes affect it. | ||
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Freakling
Germany1534 Posts
Any one who is following map threads on BWMN will probably bot be surprised, as this was to be expected from my working out the ramp vortex bug (and thus more generally any kind of stuck stack bug). So I did the obvious thing: I opened up an unprotected version of the old  (3)Demon& and marked all region nodes with a cursor sprite. Then I stacked a ton of burrowed units around the Forest area and unburrowed them all at once. Guess which are the exact locations where they get stacked and stuck?:+ Show Spoiler [Guess before looking!] + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/RXk2zQv.jpg) I guess we are going to see some new map with a Forest in the near future. Just don't put trees on the wrong spots! EDIT: As a little bonus: Here is a version of Fighting Spirit plus a pinch of magic minus ramp vortex. Hooray! EDIT2: Put another two minutes of editing into FS. I also fixed most of the blind spots on the reverse ramps now. I only left the ones on the edge tile untouched for now, as those cannot be fixed without also screwing up pathfinding all over the map. I am also working on a bugfixed version of CB, but that's obviously "a bit" more work... | ||
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