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After having worked on improving the stability and features of scmdraft 2 for the last couple of months, I think it is a good time to get some feedback on the (minor) changes to the UI, and squish the remaining and any newly introduced bugs.
The current build (Latest: 2017.07.02) may be accessed here: www.stormcoast-fortress.net
Most of the work went into improving the internal code and structures, but there are some UI changes. This includes a new overlay panel on the left sidebar, a reworked doodad palette, and a new unit palette.
Let me know what you think and if it works.
Some of the new features:
Transparent creep:
![[image loading]](http://www.stormcoast-fortress.net/Irregularies/AlphaCreep.png)
Rotational Symmetry:
![[image loading]](http://www.stormcoast-fortress.net/Irregularies/Images/Symmetry5.png)
Unit range display
![[image loading]](http://www.stormcoast-fortress.net/Irregularies/Images/AttackRange.png)
Pathfinding region preview
![[image loading]](http://www.stormcoast-fortress.net/Irregularies/Images/ICCup%20Circuit%20Breaker(u)+height.gif)
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Ooh very interested. I spent many hours with the first one. :D
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Thanks Suicidal Insanity, the best editor out there just became better.
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SI, if we want to post a bug, or even a suggestion, or anything like that, would you like it to be posted here on TL or on Staredit.net, or PM or email? I personally have a really hard time with SEN (doesn't even send me a verification email even after multiple tries).
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unbelievable,this project is still alive。
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On May 17 2017 12:45 JungleTerrain wrote: SI, if we want to post a bug, or even a suggestion, or anything like that, would you like it to be posted here on TL or on Staredit.net, or PM or email? I personally have a really hard time with SEN (doesn't even send me a verification email even after multiple tries).
Here is fine. That's why I made the thread =) Once I'm fairly confident most of the remaining bugs have been found and fixed I'll continue posting it to more sites.
Note: I may be traveling the next few days and offline
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On May 17 2017 16:57 S.I. wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2017 12:45 JungleTerrain wrote: SI, if we want to post a bug, or even a suggestion, or anything like that, would you like it to be posted here on TL or on Staredit.net, or PM or email? I personally have a really hard time with SEN (doesn't even send me a verification email even after multiple tries). Here is fine. That's why I made the thread =) Once I'm fairly confident most of the remaining bugs have been found and fixed I'll continue posting it to more sites. Note: I may be traveling the next few days and offline
One small QoL suggestion I have:
-Switching from one map window to another one, preserving the brush that had been selected in that window before switching to another one (or at least having the option to preserve brush). I tend to do a lot of copy/paste work in my melee maps, and I switch windows constantly. Having to go back and select the same brush I was using before can get quite annoying. Example: Was on a space map, using Low Platform brush. Switched to other window to check something, go back to the original window, and Elevated Catwalk was selected instead of Low Platform brush. Very small thing, if it's not too much trouble it would be great!
EDIT: After some thought, this might be better as an option more than a default setting.
Just checked but it also applies to the other layers (Unit, Doodad, Sprite, etc.). Maybe there could be an option like "Preserve Brush when Window Switching" or something of the sort [under Profile Settings maybe?]
I'm absolutely loving the Tile and Microtile overlays! Although I'm not too sure what some of them are, for example, what is the difference between "Height" and "High Ground"? (EDIT2: Just found out what Height does) And all the "Unknown" or "Deprecated" overlays? Maybe these questions are better answered on SEN, although I cannot even make an account there... Will you be filling these in with more proper names once they are figured out in an upcoming release?
Thanks SI! It's looking great so far. I quickly looked through most of the options and features, haven't found anything odd.
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Not sure if this is intended, but resizing the terrain, unit and doodad windows by dragging the corner/border causes it to move as it is being dragged by the cursor. Looks kinda buggy as it does this, as well.
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Switching between maps should restore the previous layer + brush settings. Same when switching back and forth between layers. I change a lot of the implementation of how the exact brush contents are stored (I now have a nice "StarcraftBrush" class instead of a bunch of settings), so it looks like that isn't working perfectly. I'll get that fixed soon.
I'm fairly sure the game doesn't even load most of the 'deprecated' flags, those are just listed for people who are interested in viewing the info stored in the tileset. The game regenerates a few pathfinding and fog of war related ones on data load, and overwrites em. If anyone knows what the unknown flags are for I'll add proper names.
For the palettes: What OS are you using? I haven't seen that happen on either of my PCs. (Maybe we should take the troubleshooting to PMs)
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On May 18 2017 03:33 JungleTerrain wrote:I'm absolutely loving the Tile and Microtile overlays! Although I'm not too sure what some of them are, for example, what is the difference between "Height" and "High Ground"? (EDIT2: Just found out what Height does) And all the "Unknown" or "Deprecated" overlays? Maybe these questions are better answered on SEN, although I cannot even make an account there... Will you be filling these in with more proper names once they are figured out in an upcoming release?
Since I spend a lot of time helping figuring these out: Here's a complete list of currently available tile flag overlays: Minitile level overlays: Impassable: exactly what it says on the tin (aka unwalkable) Medium Ground: ewisott High Ground: ewisott Obscuring: vision obstructing doodads. These are only used to initialize tilewise vision calculations. If at least one minitile of a tile has a set flag, that tile acts as a vision blocking tile (blocks line of sight for all ground units on any terrain level) Unknown(ramp?): ewisott (only ever set on ramp tiles). Which function this has in the game, if any, is not known. Others(0xFFE0): Unused flags. Have no function and are never set. Just ignore these Height: Combination of Medium Ground, High Ground and Obscuring flags (see above), so you can see all terrain levels in one overlay (better combination and customization options may be implemented later).
Tile level overlays: Building placability (sic!): read: buildability... For Installation this currently seems to only show settings of flag 0x8000 instead, which allows for the placement of Beacons and Starting Locations, but not actual buildings. Creep: Creep tiles (currently marks both creep tiles from the palette and tiles dynamically covered with creep from a source unit) LOS obscuring: Marks vision blocking tiles. Not an actual tile flag but a value the engine generates at gamestart from the associated subtile flags (see above) Height: Also not an actual flag but an elevation value the game engine calculates at game start to determine terrain level for vision calculations. Vision blocking tiles are also included in this overlay, so you could more accurately dub it the vision overlay. The minitile threshold is off by 1 for medium ground in this version, but S.I. will fix that today. Provides Cover: Tiles that grands units on them a ~50% chance to be missed by ranged attacks Mostly walkable/Not mostly walkable: One being just the inversion of the other; I can't be sure, but I think this is actually not a pre-set flag but information calculated at game-start for pathfinding. Less than 4 unwalkable subtiles is the threshold. Partially walkable: Similar to the above, but assigned to all tiles which are neither fully walkable nor fully unwalkable. Deprecated(0x0001): Seems to have denoted something similar to unbuildability at some point. As the deprecated already suggests, you can safely forget about this one. Deprecated(0x0004): Denotes normal unwalkable terrain types, i.e. cliffs and water-like terrain. Probably no in-game function. Deprecated(0x0100): Indicates doodads with sprites. Used to initialize sprite flags. Does not really yield any useful information. Deprecated(0x0200): Seems to have indicated medium ground at some point, except for Badlands and Ash World terrains. Deprecated(0x0400): Seems to have indicated high ground at some point, except for Badlands and Ash World terrains where it is linked to medium ground instead. Unknown(0x0002), (0x0008), (0x0020), Deprecated(0x0800): These are unused (never set), just ignore them. Pure/Unit/Flipped Sprite (doodad): Used to initialize doodad sprite flags. Pretty much ewisott.
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The new SC doesn't allow for some colors like black and blueish grey (they appear as some random color like teal or green in game instead of the black assigned). If possible a fix would be much appreciated.
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Black never was an official color, it just worked to due a buffer overflow in the player color lookup, and always has been patch dependent. StarCraft (since broodwar and up to 1.16) only has 16 colors defined "officially". I never tested if 1.18 still has all 16 - but they still are in the data files for the 8bit graphics.
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On May 18 2017 08:44 S.I. wrote: Black never was an official color, it just worked to due a buffer overflow in the player color lookup, and always has been patch dependent. StarCraft (since broodwar and up to 1.16) only has 16 colors defined "officially". I never tested if 1.18 still has all 16 - but they still are in the data files for the 8bit graphics.
Yeah well I know the blueish gray and a couple numbers that I'v tried including "19" and "20" (diff shades of black) don't work. Hardly a big deal just makes me sad because black was really cool in this one UMS map that I liked to play.
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Amazing work, glad SCMDraft is still going, the functionality in this thing is unbelievable...I've tinkered with it a few times myself. =P
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On May 18 2017 08:44 S.I. wrote: Black never was an official color, it just worked to due a buffer overflow in the player color lookup, and always has been patch dependent. StarCraft (since broodwar and up to 1.16) only has 16 colors defined "officially". I never tested if 1.18 still has all 16 - but they still are in the data files for the 8bit graphics. Only colours 1..12 (red, blue, teal, purple, orange, brown, white, yellow, green, tan [aka. peach], pale yellow, dark aqua [neutral player colour]) are properly defined, all others are buffer overflows which appear differently, dependent on the tileset and game version. It might be possible to find a black colour under 1.18 (or some other one that looks cool) by just testing the complete byte range.
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Cool initiative, thanks, I will try to play with it like the good old times :p
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Image 1
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/zTxr12F.jpg) Image 2
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/ZeYyJ8w.jpg) Image 3
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/4ctwOL2.jpg)
So I wanted to point out what seems to be a UI inconsistency.
Image 1 shows that I have the minerals selected, and at the bottom it says "7 units selected." This is correct.
Image 2 shows what happens after you place a unit and then try to select any other units. Here I have placed a few marines for Player 1, and then I selected them. As you can see, the UI at the bottom does not update and still displays "Placing: Terran Marine." SCMDraft 2.0 Beta 0.8.0 in this case would display "# units selected" here.
Image 3 shows what happens after you clear the selection. At the bottom, the big arrow is pointing to the fact that it still says "Placing: Terran Marine" even though this is not the case. In 0.8.0 this would just say "No selection."
Also, I don't know how big of a deal this is, but the three smaller arrows are pointing to the graphical residue left by the HP bars of the units leftover after clearing the selection. Once you move the camera to another part of the map, these clear. Might not be able to see it on here... I might have to put a zoomed in picture.
Not sure if you were aware of these already, but there ya go!
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Didn't know about the status bar issue, good catch. I knew about the health bar remnants (The good news is: the healthbars now have the correct offset !), but I'm sure there are other graphical glitches I don't know about, since I changed quite a bit of the GFX code.
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I decided to do something fun last night.... transparent creep:
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On May 21 2017 19:31 S.I. wrote:I decided to do something fun last night.... transparent creep: ![[image loading]](http://www.stormcoast-fortress.net/Irregularies/AlphaCreep.png)
That actually looks pretty cool. Might be useful in some niche scenarios
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Being able to see both creep range and underlying terrain is not that niche actually...
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Uploaded the version with transparent creep + fixes for resizing the left edge of the palette + a few other things.
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Two questions. Does this new version allow for more 'locations' than previous one's? Also, while we are talking about creep is there a way to disable it for a specific building without having to build it on a specific terrain (like rocky or ruins)?
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hey SI, any plans to add new features?
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On May 23 2017 10:44 treason2017 wrote: hey SI, any plans to add new features?
You're gonna have to be more specific, what do you even want him to implement? SCMDraft is already the most powerful editor out there.
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On May 23 2017 09:39 Bolshevik- wrote: Two questions. Does this new version allow for more 'locations' than previous one's? Also, while we are talking about creep is there a way to disable it for a specific building without having to build it on a specific terrain (like rocky or ruins)?
I'm limited by what the engine supports, in terms of locations. I also don't know of a way of doing the creep, short of possibly (I am just making things up as I go) 1: disabling creep generation va EUD trigger, 2: creating the building; 3: reenabling creep generation
On May 23 2017 10:44 treason2017 wrote: hey SI, any plans to add new features?
The alpha linked in this thread has numerous new, small features, and as I come up with ideas / have time to work on my idea list more will be added.
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Hmm I'm getting some kind of error when I open latest scmdraft 2. "The procedure entry point richmond could not be located in the dynamic links library etc etc."
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On May 24 2017 08:59 Bolshevik- wrote: Hmm I'm getting some kind of error when I open latest scmdraft 2. "The procedure entry point richmond could not be located in the dynamic links library etc etc." You can try ignoring it and seeing if everything works, it should at most effect the trigger editor.
If I can't reproduce it can I send you a version with some test code?
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On May 25 2017 09:11 S.I. wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2017 08:59 Bolshevik- wrote: Hmm I'm getting some kind of error when I open latest scmdraft 2. "The procedure entry point richmond could not be located in the dynamic links library etc etc." You can try ignoring it and seeing if everything works, it should at most effect the trigger editor. If I can't reproduce it can I send you a version with some test code?
Well if it opens sure. Dunno the latest didn't seem to. But yeah send over one with test code.
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Isometrical terrain lends to interesting illusion:
Looks round but is an oval: ![[image loading]](http://www.stormcoast-fortress.net/Irregularies/Images/Symmetry4.png)
Is round but looks like an egg:
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New version up which has some fixes and a pure sprite palette + unit sprite setting in the unit palette.
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Wow it cool you are working on this SI.
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Thank you for your wonderful work
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Something requested by a few melee map makers: Unit range display
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Something I just found. I was making a fastest map and upon nearly completing it and testing it, the Terran and Protoss workers mine the stack of minerals no problem, but Zerg Drones don't want to mine more than one or two at a time. Any suggestions?
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On June 26 2017 10:39 Mistakes wrote: Something I just found. I was making a fastest map and upon nearly completing it and testing it, the Terran and Protoss workers mine the stack of minerals no problem, but Zerg Drones don't want to mine more than one or two at a time. Any suggestions?
Are you sure it was SCMDraft that caused this? It could be something else. Also, make sure that the minerals are not on unwalkable (impassable) tiles, as these can stop workers from mining certain patches.
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On June 26 2017 12:09 JungleTerrain wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2017 10:39 Mistakes wrote: Something I just found. I was making a fastest map and upon nearly completing it and testing it, the Terran and Protoss workers mine the stack of minerals no problem, but Zerg Drones don't want to mine more than one or two at a time. Any suggestions? Are you sure it was SCMDraft that caused this? It could be something else. Also, make sure that the minerals are not on unwalkable (impassable) tiles, as these can stop workers from mining certain patches.
So I found the problem. I was using a tile that was highground for the area of the main building and lowground area for the minerals. For whatever reason the other races acted like it was no different but drones would not continue mining for whatever reason.
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On June 26 2017 12:22 Mistakes wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2017 12:09 JungleTerrain wrote:On June 26 2017 10:39 Mistakes wrote: Something I just found. I was making a fastest map and upon nearly completing it and testing it, the Terran and Protoss workers mine the stack of minerals no problem, but Zerg Drones don't want to mine more than one or two at a time. Any suggestions? Are you sure it was SCMDraft that caused this? It could be something else. Also, make sure that the minerals are not on unwalkable (impassable) tiles, as these can stop workers from mining certain patches. So I found the problem. I was using a tile that was highground for the area of the main building and lowground area for the minerals. For whatever reason the other races acted like it was no different but drones would not continue mining for whatever reason.
Erratic behavior, welcome to Brood War!
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Been playing BW for ~18 years and making maps for ~10 but for whatever reason never noticed that specific bug before. Haha.
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Brood War is literally just a pile of bugs stacked together that somehow ended up as the best game.
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On June 28 2017 00:38 neobowman wrote: Brood War is literally just a pile of bugs stacked together that somehow ended up as the best game. Don't forget the quick + dirty hacks like worker stacking.
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I've got a question and i hope this belongs to here.
Does anybody know what exactly those AI scritps do (examples):
Brood Wars Protoss 2 - Town D Brood Wars Terran 4 - Town A Brood Wars Zerg 1 - Town E
Other strange ones are:
Protoss 10 - Mini-Ttowns Protoss 3 - Air Zerg Town Terran 2 - Electornic Distribution Zerg 9 - Right Orange Protoss
Edit: I've just opened BW campaign Zerg 3 where you have to gather 10k minerals and you only have Terran opponents. All Terran AIs use scripts like "Brood Wars Zerg 3 - Town D" (applies for orange who never attacks you - and has a firebat constantly jumping into a bunker and leaving it again). However, brown uses the script "Brood Wars Zerg 3 - Town E" who attacks you every now and then. So those script stand for the respective missions in both StarCraft and Brood War and they seem to be hard coded.
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Yea I think they are what you discovered here, just general AI's made for specific purposes (the campaign missions) and assigned arbitrary names. However we don't really know exactly what they do and you would have to open the script somehow to change it.
I'm guessing that the script is as you said, hard coded into the game and the script merely "calls" on it.
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I've always wondered how you can create a nuke silo with a nuke in it, I just didn't get it to work. But Brood War Terran 5a proves that it can be done. And on top of that the nuke silo's lights flash only for a few seconds when it's building a nuke. I never understood. But now when opening BW Terra 5a, player 1 (the nuking terran) uses the script "Brood Wars Terran 2 - Town A". At first I was confused but I remembered that in BW Terran 2 you have four nukes in the later stages (the mission where you have to steal those battle cruisers). And there was the same thing with the nukes...
Ok, at least I know now for sure that I didn't have a chance to do this myself xD Well, I did manage to make the AI build a nuke but in order to make that happen, it needs to start harvesting and shortly after, it builds the nuke. However, the building time is the standard one, but those campaign scenarios use a "chrono boost" or whatever :D
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On June 29 2017 08:19 RedW4rr10r wrote: I've always wondered how you can create a nuke silo with a nuke in it, I just didn't get it to work. But Brood War Terran 5a proves that it can be done. And on top of that the nuke silo's lights flash only for a few seconds when it's building a nuke. I never understood. But now when opening BW Terra 5a, player 1 (the nuking terran) uses the script "Brood Wars Terran 2 - Town A". At first I was confused but I remembered that in BW Terran 2 you have four nukes in the later stages (the mission where you have to steal those battle cruisers). And there was the same thing with the nukes...
Ok, at least I know now for sure that I didn't have a chance to do this myself xD Well, I did manage to make the AI build a nuke but in order to make that happen, it needs to start harvesting and shortly after, it builds the nuke. However, the building time is the standard one, but those campaign scenarios use a "chrono boost" or whatever :D
Yeah, for the most part we are very limited as mapmakers in what we can make an AI do in the game. But I think it would also get very complicated quickly if you have so many options to make a computer player do stuff. It would be very complex I think. I wonder if the SSCAIT people use scripts, I haven't looked into it.
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S.I. is it possible to have an editable Recent Maps list under the Files menu?
Nothing too crazy, but for example at least being able to delete some of the entries.
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On June 29 2017 07:35 RedW4rr10r wrote: I've got a question and i hope this belongs to here.
Does anybody know what exactly those AI scritps do (examples):
Brood Wars Protoss 2 - Town D Brood Wars Terran 4 - Town A Brood Wars Zerg 1 - Town E
Other strange ones are:
Protoss 10 - Mini-Ttowns Protoss 3 - Air Zerg Town Terran 2 - Electornic Distribution Zerg 9 - Right Orange Protoss
Edit: I've just opened BW campaign Zerg 3 where you have to gather 10k minerals and you only have Terran opponents. All Terran AIs use scripts like "Brood Wars Zerg 3 - Town D" (applies for orange who never attacks you - and has a firebat constantly jumping into a bunker and leaving it again). However, brown uses the script "Brood Wars Zerg 3 - Town E" who attacks you every now and then. So those script stand for the respective missions in both StarCraft and Brood War and they seem to be hard coded. Yes, those are Campaign scripts. All they usually do is give a list of buildings to build, some instructions what units to defend with (against ground to ground attacks build the following units and use them for defense etc...) and hard-coded attacks (build such and such units and send them attacking). Protoss 10 - Mini-Ttowns is a satellite base script (analogous to the "Campaign area town" scripts). All it does is make the AI build a Hatch (if there isn't one already) and some workers and use them to mine at those locations.
Terran 2 - Electronic Distribution is a script for the Shareware campaign. Some of them are actually dublicates, as there are also "Shareware" scripts around (but the actual Shareware release leaves out some of the missions).
There is actually an AI script editor for BroodWar you can read the scripts with and see what exactly they do. Just search the web for it.
EDIT: Use this as a starting point.
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On June 29 2017 17:17 Freakling wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2017 07:35 RedW4rr10r wrote: I've got a question and i hope this belongs to here.
Does anybody know what exactly those AI scritps do (examples):
Brood Wars Protoss 2 - Town D Brood Wars Terran 4 - Town A Brood Wars Zerg 1 - Town E
Other strange ones are:
Protoss 10 - Mini-Ttowns Protoss 3 - Air Zerg Town Terran 2 - Electornic Distribution Zerg 9 - Right Orange Protoss
Edit: I've just opened BW campaign Zerg 3 where you have to gather 10k minerals and you only have Terran opponents. All Terran AIs use scripts like "Brood Wars Zerg 3 - Town D" (applies for orange who never attacks you - and has a firebat constantly jumping into a bunker and leaving it again). However, brown uses the script "Brood Wars Zerg 3 - Town E" who attacks you every now and then. So those script stand for the respective missions in both StarCraft and Brood War and they seem to be hard coded. Yes, those are Campaign scripts. All they usually do is give a list of buildings to build, some instructions what units to defend with (against ground to ground attacks build the following units and use them for defense etc...) and hard-coded attacks (build such and such units and send them attacking). Protoss 10 - Mini-Ttowns is a satellite base script (analogous to the "Campaign area town" scripts). All it does is make the AI build a Hatch (if there isn't one already) and some workers and use them to mine at those locations. Terran 2 - Electronic Distribution is a script for the Shareware campaign. Some of them are actually dublicates, as there are also "Shareware" scripts around (but the actual Shareware release leaves out some of the missions). There is actually an AI script editor for BroodWar you can read the scripts with and see what exactly they do. Just search the web for it. EDIT: Use this as a starting point. Wow cool, thanks for your help!
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On June 29 2017 13:31 JungleTerrain wrote: S.I. is it possible to have an editable Recent Maps list under the Files menu?
Nothing too crazy, but for example at least being able to delete some of the entries.
I could add a clear button to nuke em all, but too niche to do much more with. For now you can just clear em by removing the entries in the registry.
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.... still very much a work in progress.... and I'm very grateful to tscmoo for letting me reimplement his reimplementation and answering questions.
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On July 01 2017 11:17 S.I. wrote:.... still very much a work in progress.... and I'm very grateful to tscmoo for letting me reimplement his reimplementation and answering questions. ![[image loading]](http://www.stormcoast-fortress.net/Irregularies/Images/Regions4.png)
What is that exactly?
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That is a preview for what the pathfinding region preview will look like! Yes, it is really happening! : Soon we are going to have access to pathfinding directly via the editor! I guess there is a lot of figuring out how to best interpret the raw data left to do, but things like balancing resources and wiping out stuck 'n stacked bugs will become a whole lot easier and less time consuming! I need to go buy more exclamation marks!
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Its a display of the regions used by starcraft for the high level portion of the pathfinding algorithm. I believe starcraft first determines a path from start point to end point as a list of regions, and dynamically calculates the actual path by looking ahead a few regions at a time from the current unit position.
Here is the same thing for the (6)Acropolis map, except now it also displays the tiles which are part of two regions correctly and the links between regions:
![[image loading]](http://www.stormcoast-fortress.net/Irregularies/Images/(6)Acropolis.gif)
E: And Circuit Breaker, pathfinding + terrain height overlays: Click for full sized.
![[image loading]](http://www.stormcoast-fortress.net/Irregularies/Images/ICCup%20Circuit%20Breaker(u)+height.gif)
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How did I not see these posts?
Dude that is crazy! SCMDraft has just ascended into God-level editing powers. Thanks SI (and whoever helped you if anyone) for these new features.
I really want to learn in-depth about these pathfinding regions... looks really interesting. I don't currently see (from that overlay) how it will help with resource debugging (I need an explanation). Or maybe as you said we just need to interpret the raw data and see what it's telling us?
Edit: lol and of course Circuit Breakers has elevation bugs in its ramps...
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Lots of credit belongs to tscmoo, he let me look at his reverse engineered code to implement this and generated a dump of a map or two to track down two or three bugs.
Guess why I choose that map as the example
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Can any one link some game VODs where the ramp vortex happened (on FS or other maps)?
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![[image loading]](http://www.stormcoast-fortress.net/Irregularies/Images/PathingPreview.png)
So in this image, it shows that individual tiles in different elevation relative to its surroundings actually has its own pathfinding region assigned to it, and you can see lines coming from them and going to the region in which they are inside of. It's like mini-regions inside a bigger region.
So this means that elevation bugs in ramps actually affects pathing?
And how are these regions created? The game looks for tiles with similar properties and clumps them together?
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I'm not sure whether that significantly changes pathing in this example. For long distances the game creates a list of regions the unit has to go through, but the exact path the unit follows is calculated for the next few regions in advance, so its fairly likely the pathfinding will switch to the short range algorithm before that matters. I'm not very familiar with how the game does that yet so I can't give a definitive answer.
Region creation real fast: - Mark the map tiles by elevation + passible - find large rects of the same height from top left to bottom right. - expand found rects to include tiles between rects - merge small regions into neighbors if possible.
The region display is updated in realtime as you edit the terrain so you can see how your changes affect it.
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Wow, this is huge:
Any one who is following map threads on BWMN will probably bot be surprised, as this was to be expected from my working out the ramp vortex bug (and thus more generally any kind of stuck stack bug).
So I did the obvious thing: I opened up an unprotected version of the old (3)Demon& and marked all region nodes with a cursor sprite. Then I stacked a ton of burrowed units around the Forest area and unburrowed them all at once. Guess which are the exact locations where they get stacked and stuck?: + Show Spoiler [Guess before looking!] +
I guess we are going to see some new map with a Forest in the near future. Just don't put trees on the wrong spots!
EDIT: As a little bonus: Here is a version of Fighting Spirit plus a pinch of magic minus ramp vortex. Hooray!
EDIT2: Put another two minutes of editing into FS. I also fixed most of the blind spots on the reverse ramps now. I only left the ones on the edge tile untouched for now, as those cannot be fixed without also screwing up pathfinding all over the map.
I am also working on a bugfixed version of CB, but that's obviously "a bit" more work...
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Could you explain ramp vortexes real quick? And do the Korean mapmakers know?
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On July 07 2017 11:10 neobowman wrote: Could you explain ramp vortexes real quick? And do the Korean mapmakers know?
As far as we know, we just discovered this, almost 20 years after the game's release! (Unless someone else has looked into this). I doubt (most) Korean mapmakers know about any of this but I don't know Korean so I have no way of finding out if this is true.
However, based on the posts on the ASL submission page about resource gathering "research", Korean mapmakers don't know more than we knew as of recently.
And correct me if I'm wrong freak, but vortices seem to be where pathfinding region nodes meet (the approximate "center" of the regions, which are almost always irregular shapes in most maps) BUT if the nodes are on top of impassable terrain, then a vortex is created, where units tend to get stuck and stack. This usually happens on ramps because of the small and irregular shapes they force pathfinding regions to take.
When it happens on a ramp, we can call it a ramp vortex. If it happens anywhere else, well it's just a vortex lol.
Again, correct me I'm from but that is my understanding as of now.
Also I am a bit confused still on the difference between the short and long pathfinding algorithm and their relation to the pathfinding region. As in, the pathfinding regions are used almost entirely for long pathfinding algorithm solutions, or do they also play a part in short pathfinding? It seems to be that they do have something to do with short pathfinding since units get stuck on these nodes.
And do units passing through a region "tend" towards the node as they pass through? As in, the node pulls on the unit to pass through it to get through the region or what?
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If you want to know all the details, I suggest you study the Open BW code closely...
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So here's a bug-fixed version of Circuit Breakers.
+ Show Spoiler [pictures] +
List of updates
- Completely redid all the reversed ramps (using my own space ramps) to fix lots of terrain level bugs and adjust their width and angle to that of normal High Platform ramps.
- Fixed the bugged geyser in the top right main (turned out a single cliff tile swap sufficed)
- Cleaned up the rather messy terrain editing around the 3/9 o'clock expansions
- Filled in a lots of potential drop holes around the map
- cleaned up some other messy terrain editing
Things I haven't changed:
- I kept all the low ground ramps as they are. I'd consider the kind of old-schoolish lack of reverse ramps a nice touch and the map accounts for it with a layout that does not really require reverse ramps to maintain good balance.
- The top right natural geyser still mines very slowly. Not much that can be done about that, as it's just a bad geyser position.
- Looks as dull as ever. I am not going to start decorating other people's maps...
- I kept main ramp positions between top and bottom mains asymmetrical because changing it would have meant to make the gap between resource depot and ramp tighter for the bottom positions, which I think would be more of an issue. The original ramps were certainly put in their respective positions for exactly this reason.
- Aside from the top right main geyser, no resources where changed, mostly because it was not necessary: Luckily all the relevant path-finding regions turned out either the same or even cleaner than before, so if there are any bugs with worker pathing they ought to have been there before.
That being said, some of the formations are really asymmetrical and there is certainly room for improvement (particularly with Comsat issues). So this might be something to look into for future updates.
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This sounds like the perfect time for you guys to make an article about this and see if someone can translate it to korean to post on one of the big Korean boards. This is actually pretty huge.
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51342 Posts
For those still confused with the concept of a ramp vortex, here's a real-time example.
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On July 08 2017 14:03 GTR wrote:For those still confused with the concept of a ramp vortex, here's a real-time example. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/My5zmrk.gif)
Thanks for finding an example =)
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On July 08 2017 14:22 S.I. wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2017 14:03 GTR wrote:For those still confused with the concept of a ramp vortex, here's a real-time example. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/My5zmrk.gif) Thanks for finding an example =)
I've actually seen that before lol poor Bisu
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On July 08 2017 14:03 GTR wrote:For those still confused with the concept of a ramp vortex, here's a real-time example. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/My5zmrk.gif) I remember that gif. That's what I was looking for. Thanks.
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On July 08 2017 13:58 neobowman wrote: This sounds like the perfect time for you guys to make an article about this and see if someone can translate it to korean to post on one of the big Korean boards. This is actually pretty huge. I think I'll just post both updates on the Afreeca page.
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Canada11279 Posts
Oh, I just saw this. I'm so glad someone's been updating ScmDraft. I just got back into making maps and the old ScmDraft had a weird bug on my computer for the last couple years that would crash whenever I zoomed out. This one doesn't so we're back in business
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On July 13 2017 17:38 Falling wrote:Oh, I just saw this. I'm so glad someone's been updating ScmDraft. I just got back into making maps and the old ScmDraft had a weird bug on my computer for the last couple years that would crash whenever I zoomed out. This one doesn't so we're back in business 
There were one or two buffer overflows in the old overlay rendering code which you may have run into. Most of the time I spent on the update was to fix / update / modernize / improve the code and not just add new features, and its much better now.
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On July 08 2017 09:04 Freakling wrote:So here's a bug-fixed version of Circuit Breakers. + Show Spoiler [pictures] +List of updates- Completely redid all the reversed ramps (using my own space ramps) to fix lots of terrain level bugs and adjust their width and angle to that of normal High Platform ramps.
- Fixed the bugged geyser in the top right main (turned out a single cliff tile swap sufficed)
- Cleaned up the rather messy terrain editing around the 3/9 o'clock expansions
- Filled in a lots of potential drop holes around the map
- cleaned up some other messy terrain editing
Things I haven't changed: - I kept all the low ground ramps as they are. I'd consider the kind of old-schoolish lack of reverse ramps a nice touch and the map accounts for it with a layout that does not really require reverse ramps to maintain good balance.
- The top right natural geyser still mines very slowly. Not much that can be done about that, as it's just a bad geyser position.
- Looks as dull as ever. I am not going to start decorating other people's maps...
- I kept main ramp positions between top and bottom mains asymmetrical because changing it would have meant to make the gap between resource depot and ramp tighter for the bottom positions, which I think would be more of an issue. The original ramps were certainly put in their respective positions for exactly this reason.
- Aside from the top right main geyser, no resources where changed, mostly because it was not necessary: Luckily all the relevant path-finding regions turned out either the same or even cleaner than before, so if there are any bugs with worker pathing they ought to have been there before.
That being said, some of the formations are really asymmetrical and there is certainly room for improvement (particularly with Comsat issues). So this might be something to look into for future updates.
can we get this version into ASL 4?
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Maybe.
The point is: I am not quite sure I should call this an official update yet. There are some things that could still be improved upon from the old version, like some worker pathfinding issues and very unequal mineral formations between mains. Why stop half-way when now we have all the tools to efficiently solve all of these old issues?
Guess I'll be working on it a bit more...
In fact, I think I'll start a thread on getting all the old Kespa maps up-to-date soon. I am also have a quick-fixed version of Demon's Forest without stuck stack bugs (not that the map hadn't still tons of problems, overdoing a very restrictive mechanic being not the least of them), an update for Dante's Peak SE that fixes the ramp vortices and a ton of terrain level bugs and an update of Polaris Rhapsody that clears up the absolute mess that it's been terrain-level-wise.
If I knew which maps ASL4 is planning to use it would probably a good idea to get those a complete overhaul as well...
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I would probably fix the "unmined minerals" where workers don't automatically transfer over to the next patch because it's off to the side too far. I would also just completely move the natural gasses so that they mine at a better rate.
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On July 17 2017 16:57 iopq wrote: I would probably fix the "unmined minerals" where workers don't automatically transfer over to the next patch because it's off to the side too far. What exactly are you referring to here? There is a bug where minerals are placed centre on unwalkable ground, which makes them effectively unmineable (except through click spam – if you are lucky). This is so serious that I doubt any map actually has a bug like this.
So I am not quite sure what you mean. The mineral formations at the 3/9 and 12/6 o'clock expansions? The lack of automatic migration between mineral clusters spread like that is pretty much a feature, not a bug. It's on the players to optimize their mining rate by splitting their workers into two equal groups. The benefit of this kind of arrangement is that less worker migration also means more efficient mining at higher saturations.
I would also just completely move the natural gasses so that they mine at a better rate. This would change other core aspects: how Vulnerable the gas is to being sniped, how much it gets in the way of units and buildings, how the mineral formations are placed (to make room for the geysers), and hence how vulnerable they are to Muta harassment ... and so forth. In short: This is a change that could impact map balance negatively in lots of other ways, so I'd rather not do it.
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http://screenshot.sh/mKS5Oiv5CHSzE
eight minutes later
http://screenshot.sh/odCiTBWtokQbE
is this a feature? I think you shouldn't have to manually put workers on each patch when you take one off to make a pylon or whatever. That's not a feature in FS, for example, where workers will transfer to the next mineral smoothly over the course of the game.
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Is that consistently happening in every game?
I don't see any particular reason why that one patch would mine so much slower.
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Good question, I couldn't replicate it perfectly myself. But workers do tend to mine the patches on the left instead of that one if you send them to the neighboring patch. I'm guessing Bonyth took the only probe mining that patch to make a pylon so no other probes mined it.
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Well, how many probes were mining there to begin with? If it were just 8, or maybe 9/10 you cannot really expect them to migrate to any one particular patch automatically, as there are always other free patches available closer by. Often you will see something like three Probes only alternating between two patches in a mostly stable pattern which will take a long time to be broken.
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I counted at least 16, and maybe a few more stacked on top of each other.
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That's what's in the first picture, but without knowing exactly what happened in-between (how many Probes were pulled and when?) it's not possible to tell what happened there. Do you have a replay and the specific map file used in that game?
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Next feature to get an overhaul is the custom brush palette, in order to display a graphical preview etc.
This is what the updated palette currently looks like (Full disclosure: Not my brush file):
![[image loading]](http://www.stormcoast-fortress.net/Irregularies/Images/BrushPalette2.png)
![[image loading]](http://www.stormcoast-fortress.net/Irregularies/Images/BrushPalette3.png)
E: Current state now looks like this:
![[image loading]](http://www.stormcoast-fortress.net/Irregularies/Images/BrushPalette4.png)
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I think, if some unit move from A to B, unit try to find minimum regions between A and B(Yellow rec), not minimum distance.
Thats why gas of CB 1'o has worker bug.
+ Show Spoiler +
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The pathfinder definitely calculates a distance in pixels, not in regions, when finding the path between regions. I think that would explain the bug, since it would calculate from the current worker position to the center of the left region, and from that center to the command center, and that is longer than the path to the center of the bottom region. I'm not sure of the exact algorithm. Tscmoo may know more.
At some point I may add the display of the long path (region to region), but since that is only a rough estimate of the actual path it could be very misleading for people who do not read the info that says its an stimate.
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On July 24 2017 19:15 LatiAs wrote:I think, if some unit move from A to B, unit try to find minimum regions between A and B(Yellow rec), not minimum distance. Thats why gas of CB 1'o has worker bug. + Show Spoiler + Not quite. What I figured out so far is that units do not really "want" to travel vertically or horizontally along (i.e. on top of) a region border while crossing another,perpendicular, region border. You can very easily test this on a simple blank map (which gives you a simple, regular 8x8 region grid). Units traveling diagonally will also go from node to node over longer distances, whereas units traveling in the axial directions will keep perfect formation (unless they are crossing a perpendicular region border while traveling on top of another one, as stated above). This is just empiric testing. I cannot tell you how it works on the algorithmic level, but it's enough of a guideline to predict small-scale unit pathing pretty accurately (like when debugging resource formations).
Also: Which version of CB is that even? Seems like the minerals are shifted away from the edge by one tile... This is how I fixed it in my CB update: + Show Spoiler [show image] + Just shifted the topmost region border a tile to the left (by changing a single cliff edge tile to the left from mostly walkable to not mostly unwalkable).
Another topic: Have you seen my post on Afreeca, concerning cover bugs on some ramps on Salamander?
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I reworked the palette windows some more, for better grouping.
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New version available with support for brush subgroups, vorbis OGG sound files, HiDPI font/UI scaling, and various small fixes.
Let me know if anything isn't working.
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Will the scmdraft 2 ever stop crashing every 5 seconds? Wasn't an issue before as much but now its just terrible. Like I just mouse around the screen and it crashes.
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On August 23 2017 06:47 Bolshevik- wrote: Will the scmdraft 2 ever stop crashing every 5 seconds? Wasn't an issue before as much but now its just terrible. Like I just mouse around the screen and it crashes.
This thread is for reporting bugs, you can also Pm S.I. and give him the diagnostic files when it crashes. He will work with you to solve the problem.
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On August 23 2017 06:47 Bolshevik- wrote: Will the scmdraft 2 ever stop crashing every 5 seconds? Wasn't an issue before as much but now its just terrible. Like I just mouse around the screen and it crashes. Send me the minidump file and which version you are using and I will take a look.
Also make sure you are using the current version. (There was a build a few weeks back that may have crashed if there was too many animations on the screen at once, but that was fixed two days later)
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On August 23 2017 07:39 S.I. wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2017 06:47 Bolshevik- wrote: Will the scmdraft 2 ever stop crashing every 5 seconds? Wasn't an issue before as much but now its just terrible. Like I just mouse around the screen and it crashes. Send me the minidump file and which version you are using and I will take a look. Also make sure you are using the current version. (There was a build a few weeks back that may have crashed if there was too many animations on the screen at once, but that was fixed two days later)
Ok, I'll take a look.
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It crashes every time I open up the locations (on the left hand side of the screen) in the map editor.
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First of all: Make sure you are using version 0.9.0, not version 0.8.0. Version 0.8.0 is many years old and had a render error depending on viewport size that could cause that in location mode, and it sounds like you are using that version.
If it is happening in 0.9.0, then send me the Trigedit.dmp file from the crash so I can analyze the root cause. If you could also create a full memory dump in addition to the minidump it would be even easier. (Open task manager -> details -> right click on ScmDraft 2.exe column and select 'Create dump file'). The minidump is more important though.
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Hello S.I.
First off, thank you for your continued work on this toolkit. It's vastly useful and intuitive and I love using it even as a noob mapmaker.
With that said- I need your help for a basic function as a mapmaker, because I cannot seem to find it within scmdraft 2.0. I'm currently editing a custom map so I can play it with a reduced number of players. (Its an edit to an existing map.) I'm trying to make it so the units for the various players still spawn whether the players are there or not. Currently, if a player is not in the slot when the game starts; the units will not spawn at all. I'm trying to have the units spawn and then have a separate trigger to transfer them to a neutral computer. Any idea if I can do this within scmdraft?
Thank you in advance,
blitzburns4
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i have a Bug, StarCraft v1.20.8.3060, Remastered unlocked. resoures is invisible, unit cost can not change
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Holy heck this is amazing. I love the unit range display and the rotational symmetry. Great work man I'll have to check it out.
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On October 18 2017 18:16 blitzburns4 wrote: Hello S.I.
First off, thank you for your continued work on this toolkit. It's vastly useful and intuitive and I love using it even as a noob mapmaker.
With that said- I need your help for a basic function as a mapmaker, because I cannot seem to find it within scmdraft 2.0. I'm currently editing a custom map so I can play it with a reduced number of players. (Its an edit to an existing map.) I'm trying to make it so the units for the various players still spawn whether the players are there or not. Currently, if a player is not in the slot when the game starts; the units will not spawn at all. I'm trying to have the units spawn and then have a separate trigger to transfer them to a neutral computer. Any idea if I can do this within scmdraft?
Thank you in advance,
blitzburns4
Assuming you don't want to have a CPU slot, you may be able to give those units to neutral or players 9 / 10 / 11 and re--assign them via triggers.
On October 21 2017 08:12 killer_power wrote: i have a Bug, StarCraft v1.20.8.3060, Remastered unlocked. resoures is invisible, unit cost can not change
If the resources are not showing up, my guess is they are not owned by player 12 (Neutral)
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