EPTLast dancing on stream :D
Larva's Progress Report - Page 6
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Essbee
Canada2371 Posts
Last dancing on stream :D | ||
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Trillwill
18 Posts
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toriak
Slovakia477 Posts
On May 20 2017 01:18 Essbee wrote: Why does he rage so much when he loses though haha Last dancing on stream :D it was bo5 for 5000 ballons | ||
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Netto.
Poland523 Posts
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Essbee
Canada2371 Posts
Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh :p But he doesn't really need those balloons, does he? | ||
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Lumire
United States607 Posts
On May 20 2017 00:50 L_Master wrote: Effort was using queens quite a bit a year or two ago, but that went out of favor with him. Anyone know why, and what Larva is now doing differently to have better luck with them? If you go queens w/o ultras the Terran can hit a timing with mech before you have queen upgrades while you're still on lurk/def/ling (usually around 16min). Queens are still used in long attrition wars but zerg have had more success trying to break the Terran's 4th with a 2/2 or 3/3 timing before mech upgrades get too high, so you don't see queens as often. | ||
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
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Trillwill
18 Posts
On May 20 2017 00:50 L_Master wrote: Effort was using queens quite a bit a year or two ago, but that went out of favor with him. Anyone know why, and what Larva is now doing differently to have better luck with them? I haven't seen how Effort used Queens and I might be totally wrong about this, but it seems that Larva has been making them work through his style of attrition warfare. He abuses the power of lurker+swarm to prevent Terran attacks while slowly expanding his control across the map. It's almost impossible for Terran to penetrate his swarm/scourge defense, and while the Terran army is stuck in place trying to get around the swarms, his Queens slowly whittle them down. Eventually he secures the victory because his tools are so much more cost effective than Terran's in the late game. | ||
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Piste
6180 Posts
On May 20 2017 01:21 Essbee wrote: Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh :p But he doesn't really need those balloons, does he? well it's like 350 dollars right? Would have been a pretty good money for playing max 5 games. | ||
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Crunchums
United States11144 Posts
On May 20 2017 01:40 Dangermousecatdog wrote: I wonder what shiba means. He seems to say that a lot. https://www.google.com/search?q=korean shibal&oq=korean shibal | ||
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
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iopq
United States1004 Posts
On May 20 2017 01:54 Piste wrote: well it's like 350 dollars right? Would have been a pretty good money for playing max 5 games. if you check the exchange rate, it's about $447 but it's really interesting watching Larva, because you're like "oh, this would work against a worse Terran, definitely, but it's Flash so..." and then it works anyway | ||
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Essbee
Canada2371 Posts
On May 20 2017 01:54 Piste wrote: well it's like 350 dollars right? Would have been a pretty good money for playing max 5 games. I thought he had enough from the ads on his stream and the random donations he get. But yeah, winning a bo5 would have been good for him anyway. | ||
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LocoBolon
Argentina243 Posts
On May 19 2017 21:17 JungleTerrain wrote: Yes I forgot to mention this, actually forgot it happened at all, but can someone explain how he was able to do this? I can't check right now but it seemed like he went 3 hatch before pool unless I'm remembering it wrong. I mean, if the forward rax and marine/scv/bunker push is so strong, why would he even opt to go for an exposed third hatch like this in the first place? It seems he just did the well known 12hat-11pool-13hat putting the 3rd hat on the 3rd gas expo, it gets tricky for the obvious reason that when marine medic pushes out zerg has to defend at 2 differents locations, so its either more sunks or more lings or very tight muta/lurk timing or a little of all those things together. On May 19 2017 19:13 infinity2k17 wrote: Also check Larva's supply count, keeping it so high all of the time. Little micro skills in the midst of battle such as I think the main reason Larva's supply was so high is cuz he had a "supply bank" of 16/18 queens all the game not because he had actually much more hydra/ling/lurk, etc. And this is crucial to point out because it really seems that in a zerg vs mech combat is much more important that the terran has few tanks(/or gols as we surprisingly saw) than zerg having huge army. It happened once and once again during that game, once 10/12 broodlings hit and decimate T army zerg justproceed to do a kind of regular but very tactical attack. overlords to draw fire away from queens. No. Units with "Attack move" command (like goliaths in this case) will always attack queens over overlords when both in range. Overlords are sent in the front because broodling spell has insanse range, much bigger than queen's sight range, and u want your queens to get as little near the goliaths as possible. I was wondering if in future Z might try Queens and ensnare vs the bio before the mech switch to slow it down and start the queen count up for broodling in later game. But i'm not sure if the timings work out that way. At least with this style its not a single reveal and single broodling attack to beat a push. I dont think that is goin to ve very easy to do, u can't just skip on lurkers or mutalisks too hard because otherwise terran just kills ur 3rd or gets too big. I think the key is try to mantain the game pace of the game as similar as the standar zvt as possible: some ling, some sunk, muta timing to defend first mm push, then harass with mut/mut-ling map control all that is possible, then lurk on time to stop mm critical mass and then defiler asap. Almost all the same BUUUT zerg has to find or create windows to spare some larvas on queens while everything else goes on. To make this possible zerg has to ideally make that 3rd hat on the 3rd gas and take that gas as fast as ur eco allows it (as Larva does). | ||
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Abjurer
Sweden209 Posts
On May 20 2017 00:50 L_Master wrote: Effort was using queens quite a bit a year or two ago, but that went out of favor with him. Anyone know why, and what Larva is now doing differently to have better luck with them? In the game vs flash that valaki linked a few pages back he used them to great effect together with mutas. The queens swoop in and remove goliaths and the mutas cleans up the tanks. Eventual vessels are easy to snipe when the anti-air is gone too. When Flash responded with a heavy goliath composition Larva switched to ground army with defiler backup. He played in a really relaxed way, insane! Anyone knows whats up with the SK terran trend right now? Double starport before a later mech swith, I've seen flash and last doing it lately. | ||
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JungleTerrain
Chile799 Posts
On May 21 2017 00:59 Abjurer wrote: In the game vs flash that valaki linked a few pages back he used them to great effect together with mutas. The queens swoop in and remove goliaths and the mutas cleans up the tanks. Eventual vessels are easy to snipe when the anti-air is gone too. When Flash responded with a heavy goliath composition Larva switched to ground army with defiler backup. He played in a really relaxed way, insane! Anyone knows whats up with the SK terran trend right now? Double starport before a later mech swith, I've seen flash and last doing it lately. I think they've been doing this to try and counter the low lurker count and fast hive play from zergs knowing that they can't really hit a Zerg because of nydus, swarms, sunks and lurks. Use science vessels to keep the number of defilers and lurkers low so the Zerg can't do much and then the transition seems to be vultures with mines over the map to secure their 3rd/4th/5th expansions as they build up a large enough tank/gol force to move out. | ||
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iopq
United States1004 Posts
On May 21 2017 00:59 Abjurer wrote: In the game vs flash that valaki linked a few pages back he used them to great effect together with mutas. The queens swoop in and remove goliaths and the mutas cleans up the tanks. Eventual vessels are easy to snipe when the anti-air is gone too. When Flash responded with a heavy goliath composition Larva switched to ground army with defiler backup. He played in a really relaxed way, insane! Anyone knows whats up with the SK terran trend right now? Double starport before a later mech swith, I've seen flash and last doing it lately. You can do damage with mass drops because lurker/defiler has a difficult time defending marines running all over the base - it's better at holding chokes So we're seeing SK Terran, but more for mass dropships and some Science Vessels rather than Science Vessel clouds we've seen before. | ||
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Eleonora
29 Posts
I remember back then (Sonic era) how amazing he was at cloning, never seen anybody do it faster (or maybe it was hero). You can see it at the very beginning of this video (amazing channel btw, totally unknown ?) : Also interesting to watch how they do it "faster" than Larva : at 4:04 you can see that hero creates 6 or 7 groups with the same queens, so it saves the mandatory shift click part of the cloning sequence (and he does the last 3/4 standard). On May 19 2017 19:13 infinity2k17 wrote: I was wondering if in future Z might try Queens and ensnare vs the bio before the mech switch to slow it down and start the queen count up for broodling in later game. But i'm not sure if the timings work out that way. It's near impossible to use queen that way at the highest level. You need all the gaz avaible for Muta/Lurkers + reaching Hive/swarm tech (which is costly gaz wise). A queen + Ensnare search would be 200/200 for a single ensnare once the queen reaches 100E. Timing is already often hard for Protoss with Psy Storm, this is 10 times worse. The biggest issue with queens from what i've seen - and i'm not sure why Flash or Last aren't using it more - is EMP. Usually queens are packed in a corner of the map waiting for the energy to stack, a single EMP is enough to cancel everything instantly. And it's only 100E too. The new variations of using valkyries is interesting though because it allows for hunting Overlords as well... but a single plague and they're gone. Back to Larva, here is a very intense game of early zergling agression vs a proxy factory from Flash : great to watch 2:18:20 for his famous Dragoon impersonation :D | ||
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Magic Powers
Austria4478 Posts
Of course all other responses terran has to queens also have downsides. Personally, I think one of the best ideas is to build wraiths to snipe queens. They have the element of surprise on their side. They can also snipe other stuff, create chaos and keep zerg on his toes. Downside: Plague, ensnare, hydras and spores are very accessible counters. Also, big gas investment. | ||
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duke91
Germany1458 Posts
On May 21 2017 09:02 Magic Powers wrote: I think EMP's are not very useful, mostly because queens are so fast and they're parked way back, vessels are slow and very vulnerable. To make matters worse, Larva likes to disarm vessels even further with parasite. Of course all other responses terran has to queens also have downsides. Personally, I think one of the best ideas is to build wraiths to snipe queens. They have the element of surprise on their side. They can also snipe other stuff, create chaos and keep zerg on his toes. Downside: Plague, ensnare, hydras and spores are very accessible counters. Also, big gas investment. No need to find any counter to queens. If terran can't win if Z got enough queens, then he deserves to lose. Easy as that. | ||
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